Greene & Greene Style Box

[DPB]

Sometimes the more simple they look, the more difficult they are to make.

It took me a few goes to get the angles and dimensions just right. This box uses inter-locking mitre joints. It's another Tony Lydgate design. (He calls it the Castle Box, but I don't like that name.:( ) The outside dimesions of the box are 150mm x 150mm x 65mm.

The primary timber is from an old house. It was out of an architectural feature in a lounge room of a grand federation period home in Melbourne that was demolished some 15 years ago. Covered in layers of paint, as best as I can determine (I consulted others on this) it's California Redwood. The lid rails are Ebony. The dark look is intentional in keeping with the Greene & Green look.

I've applied a couple of coats of pure tung oil, and am waiting for it to dry before applying Wipe-on Poly.:)

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/4403/greenegreenebox47xb.jpg http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8553/greenegreenebox28ko.jpg

[ss_11000]

interesting design.....i dont like the castle box as a name either. good work on this one. What are the dimensions ( it looks small when compared to the coin)?

edit: thanx for adding the dimensions

[woodbe]

Wow. Looks great. Have you got any shots of the joints pre-assembly?

woodbe.

[jmk89]

Wow. Looks great. Have you got any shots of the joints pre-assembly?

woodbe.

And a quick blow-by-blow on how to do the corner joints (and the lid) would be very interesting

Jeremy

[DPB]

When I started making this box I intended to do a series of progress shots, but I became so engrossed in the project, I forgot to take some crucial pic's. But I have a few, so here they are along with an attempt to describe how this box was made.


[:mad: WARNING: BLADE GUARD REMOVED FOR PHOTOGRAPHIC CLARITY
- NOT RECOMMENDED FOR ACTUAL USE:mad:]

Sample of what the timber looked like before re-milling.
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3075/gg13tt.jpg

Pieces cut to length (150mm x 50mm)
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/407/gg29up.jpg

Cutting 6mm dados 20mm in from each end on face side.
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/6432/gg35xa.jpg

Carefully measure the height of the dado blade for the second cut, cutting half way through the width of the piece exactly where the first dado was cut. This will form a half lap joint.
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/5084/gg44lb.jpg
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/8145/gg56kg.jpg
Above I use an MDF backing board to prevent tear-out.

Four identical pieces like this, with dados at each end in both the face and edge of the box walls.
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/1575/gg69vy.jpg

Now the part that I didn't photo: The inside shoulder of the face cut dado needs to be cut at 45 degrees. I found this to be the critical cut, and it was this that took me a few trials to get just right. (That's why I cut too many pieces to begin with; I knew it would be a trial and error process. Just a .05mm difference in width of the resulting 45 degree dado make a big difference, because the effect is compound.

Here's a shot of what the lapping dado cut looks like when fitted together. You will note that I also cut 45 degree bevels on both the inside and outside faces of the protuding end pieces. This is purely for visual appeal.
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/5730/gg73cr.jpg

As for the lid, it was simple. The lid is made up of three pieces biscuit joined together along the width. The resulting panel is rabbeted along the bottom edge to form a lip which sits into the box top. The four 6mm dados, cut exactly to the depth of the lip rabbet, are cut on the top to accept the lid rails which are half lap joined. The rails extend beyond the top dimensions to the outside width of the box walls.:)

[jmk89]

Thanks for that. My only questions (so far)
- what tool did you use for the 45 degree cuts?
- did you use some sort of jig for those cuts (or an Anglemag or similar)?
Jeremy

[DPB]

Thanks for that. My only questions (so far)
- what tool did you use for the 45 degree cuts?
- did you use some sort of jig for those cuts (or an Anglemag or similar)?
Jeremy

My table-saw has a tilting arbour. I tilted the blade to 45 degrees, adjusted the height to precisely the depth of the existing dado and cut off the outside wall of the dado to 45 degrees. It's a precise and finicky cut and it's this cut that is so critical. The outside of the 45 degree blade has to meet the floor of the dado exactly at the apex where the the 90 degree side met the bottom of the dado. If its too far in, you leave a shelf, or shoulder, and the joint is too tight; if its too far out, you widen it which results in a sloppy fit.

One more discovery. I first tried to sand the pieces before glueing up, but after cutting this joint. DON'T DO IT! This also results in a sloppy fit. Sanding has to be done before cutting the dados, or after fitting and glueing the joints.

[banksiaman]

DPB,

Beautiful work. I think I'll have to have a go at something outside the rectangular dovetailed box.
That redwood / western red cedar? is fairly light and easily dinged?
Excellent job. Greenie sent

Chris

[jmk89]

DPB

Thanks for the very complete answers.
Greenie sent

Jeremy

[Auld Bassoon]

Nice work on a challenging design. Mitres can be enough of a buggah to get exactly right on their own, but interlocking ones. Hmmm.

Agree on the name too.

[AlexS]

Nice result Don. Those joints are a real challenge, and you've done a great job on them.

[zenwood]

Superb rendition. Those half lap mitres must've been veeeeery fiddly! Good combination of timbers, though I wonder if the strong grain in the redwood competes a bit with the complex exposed joinery.

It would be interesting to do this box in huon pine and ebony.

Greeny on way, if it'll let me. :)

[Peter36]

Interesting box Don and a very informative description and as has already been said , a finicky bit of joinery . Did you apply the tung oil first to darken the wood ?
:)

[Peter36]

PS I was going to give you a greenie but could'nt
Peter

[Wood Borer]

Don,

Excuse the pun but you are one out of the box.

Not many people make such a variety of projects as yourself. They are all well made and ever so interesting.

Thanks for sharing them with us.

[Andy Mac]

That's an interesting and secure looking joint for boxes, and the photos are great...very clear and informative. I take it you aren't stuck with auto-focus on your camera!:D
Thanks for posting the how-to's.

Cheers,

[DPB]

That's an interesting and secure looking joint for boxes, and the photos are great...very clear and informative. I take it you aren't stuck with auto-focus on your camera!:D
Thanks for posting the how-to's.

Cheers,

Well, yes, my camera, an eight mega pixel Nikon CookPix 8700 does have auto focus. Sometimes it's a pain in the butt, but it also has settings that allow me to get spot-on focus. Some of these shots were also taken with a time delay to allow me to hold up a reflective panel to reflect natural light onto the dark side of the subject. If you work at it, and read and re-read those incredibly poorly written manuals that come with the cameras, you can usually overcome focus, exposure, and depth of field problems caused by auto settings.

[RufflyRustic]

Far Out DPB! That's amazing and very ingenious! I certainly can agree with you about the little things taking so long.....


cheers
Wendy

[Hickory]

Really neat joinery, and thanks or the excellant pictures.

Are you sure of the California Redwood? Looks more like Douglas fir to me, I have several pieces of Redwood and have worked with redwood in the building trades and the pieces I have used don't have that pronounced grain coloring. Most have very little difference between summer/winter growth rings. On the other hand, Douglas fir does demonstrate that coloring and different growth rings (especially "Matured" pieces)

[DPB]

Really neat joinery, and thanks or the excellent pictures.

Are you sure of the California Redwood? Looks more like Douglas fir to me, I have several pieces of Redwood and have worked with redwood in the building trades and the pieces I have used don't have that pronounced grain coloring. Most have very little difference between summer/winter growth rings. On the other hand, Douglas fir does demonstrate that coloring and different growth rings (especially "Matured" pieces)

No, I'm not sure.

I'm going on what I was told by a so-called timber expert. I must confess I was a little dubious about his determination, because I doubt many Aussies have ever seen California Redwood. But then, you would think this Canuck would know Douglas Fir being from British Columbia - but I don't. I can tell you this, the timber has a smell that I think is unpleasant - sort of musty - but I put that down to its age.:D

Anyone else want to offer their opinion on the species? I would love to know for certain.:)

[jmk89]

On the id of the timber - I am not able to comment, but if (AISTR) Douglas Fir is another name for what tends to be called Oregon in OZ, then the musty smell and the grain are characteristics that I well recall from my little experience with it.
Jeremy

[Hickory]

I don't know for sure as I am not an "Ex-spurt" from this distance it is hard to say.... http://hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/fir.htm this is a link to a fir file.... and one for Redwood...http://hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/redwood.htm
The redwood one shows similar grain patterns and Jackslaps my claim to knowing from whence I speak.

[zenwood]

I had the same thought: I would have said Dougals Fir (Oregon), but I'm not familiar with redwood, so didn't feel qualified.

[TTIT]

I'll go with JMK89 - sounds/looks like what we called Oregon found in many old houses in Victoria. Regardless of the timber type, it suits the project nicely. Another fine job Don.:)

[DPB]

Ian, I would like to donate this box to the auction.

I must confess that I haven't been following the auction very closely - spending too much time in my shed says SWAMBO. I'll deliver it to your place this week.

Send my a PM with directions.:)

[The Hornet]

Great joinery there mate, the timber though is definetly Western red Cedar, i have worked enough of that in my time to know! It has been driving me batty recently, really strong sappy load from the mill in this last pallett

[DPB]

Ian, I would like to donate this box to the auction.

I must confess that I haven't been following the auction very closely - spending too much time in my shed says SWAMBO. I'll deliver it to your place this week.

Send my a PM with directions.:)

Turns out that I didn't pay much attention to where Ian lives either. I WON'T be delivering this in person - it's in the mail.:o


Great joinery there mate, the timber though is definitely Western red Cedar, i have worked enough of that in my time to know! It has been driving me batty recently, really strong sappy load from the mill in this last pallet

Ok, its either Oregon (Douglas Fir), or Western Red Cedar. :confused: I suspect its the latter - so for marketing purposes, I'll call it exotic Western Red Douglas California Cedar. How does that sound?:D If we so called experts can't agree, whose going to know any better?:D

[Caliban]

Don
love the box, the timber but especially the table saw. The splitter is better than on most I've seen. What type is it? And the fence looks kinda interesting too? What is it?

[DPB]

Don
love the box, the timber but especially the table saw. The splitter is better than on most I've seen. What type is it? And the fence looks kinda interesting too? What is it?

Caliban, the mitre fence is the Osborne by Excalibur EB-3 Miter Guide. http://www.osbornemfg.com/ Their tag-line reads, "rock solid, dead accurate" and that's exactly what I have found it to be. This Mitre Guide was designed by a Canadian company, but has recently been manufactured under license by Excalibur. I purchased it from Lee Valley.

Visit the web site; the features of this mitre guide are well illustrated there, and there are many!

One of the features I appreciate most, is the ease of switching the guide over from the left mitre track to the right and back.

When making four sided items, such as a picture frame or box, I believe that it is essential to keep the same face down on the table when cutting mitres, so I prefer to place the guide on one side of the blade for the first cut, then change to the other side of the saw blade to cut the mitre at the other end of the same piece. I know some stay on the same side of the blade and simply turn the work piece over to cut the second mitre at the other end, but doing this results in ill-fitting mitre joints.

I previously owned another very well known after-market mitre guide, that although a very accurate guide, took five minutes to convert from left to right mitre tracks.

Not so with the Osborne. It's a 30 second switch.:)

As for the splitter, it's the standard splitter found on the Leda 12" Table Saw.

[Caliban]

thanks Don.
I will check out that link.
I really meant what is the saw not what is the splitter.
But I think you've answered that as well.:o

[Wardy]

The effect you have achieved with the different grain pattern on the corners adds a visual contrast, which to my eye is appealing. Another great box.
Wardy