canoe plans for a novice?

[julianx]

With much trepidation I venture into the elite world of the 'wooden boat builders:D to humbly ask advice.
My son and I need to do a project together and i reacon a canoe would be ideal since the finished product should be at least as much fun as the building of it.
I'd like to use it for camping so it would need to be big enough to carry two people and camping gear for a long week end.
Since my 13 year old son has the attention span of a......well, of a 13 year old:D it would need to be quick and easy to build.
We are both almost complete novices in this field and therefore need somthing that is easy to use and hard to sink.

Can anyone suggest some plans that fit all or at least most of our criterior.
I read with much enthusiasim biting midges tale about the eureka canoe but I'm not sure it would be quite big enough, please correct me if I am wrong as other than size it looks ideal.
Oh, did I mention I'm a single parent so the budget is about $300 max

Thanks in advance
Julian

[bitingmidge]

Julian,

Biased though I may be, I'm sure you'd find the Eureka big enough for two and a HEAP of gear!

You also won't find an easier build, so just go for it!

You're welcome to come for a drive to the Sunshine Coast and check it out, I'll send you a PM with my contact details.

Cheers,

P

[julianx]

Thanks for the reply Peter. I think I will go with the Eureka. thanks for the inspection offer too, I might take you up on it if I get a chance.

[deepdug]

The Eureka is ideal for the conditions you have mentioned except that I do not believe that it will fit into your budget.

If you look at the building thread you will see my estimated costs.

I have a couple of other concerns as well. If you email me your address at [email protected] I will give you some areas where caution is required.

Cheers,

Doug Pearce

[Daddles]

Oh, did I mention I'm a single parent so the budget is about $300 max

Mate, I'm a single parent too and on an associated lack of income. While I understand the concept of costs and budgets and 'should I buy the little #### food or build him a boat?'.

Forget the budgeting. Buy sensible. Buy well. Buy as you need it - it doesn't matter if the finished boat spends 6 months waiting for you to buy paint.

The realities are, the most expensive bits are epoxy and paint, and it's not worth trying to skip on either.

You don't have to buy top or the range marine ply, but there is precious little to be saved by going super cheap either. Midge managed to find some gaboon recently for $50 a sheet (it's normally over $120) - he won't tell me how he did it so I'm suspecting there is a security guard somewhere with a sore head :eek: If you read the Puddle Duck thread, you'll also find mention of the dangers of going too cheap. Do a bit of shopping around, have a chat with your wood shop, etc, you can buy good ply that will do the job for less than top of the line marine. However, if you decide to do a bumper job on the rest of the boat, you may want to pay for the good stuff. It's a balancing act.

MIK assures me with his hand on his heart and crossed fingers on the hand holding his Bote Cote shares that if you coat the entire boat with epoxy, the paint will last considerably longer. Truth be known, if you use his preferred method of application, wet on wet and with a roller (his instructions or he himself will explain that), you don't use a hell of a lot of epoxy doing this compared to how much goes in elsewhere (yes, that came as a surprise to this grumpy old cynic too). So poxy coat it and be damned with the cost.

Paint?

I've used experior quality acrylic on Toad (my ultra cheap, crappy Mouseboat) and it is utter crap :mad:

I've used good quality exterior enamel on Redback and Scrat, my son's Mouseboat, and it is really good stuff. However, it remains soft for a long time and needs to be touched up after most trips. I don't really mind that but it is something to consider, and it will need redoing in a few years of hard use. Putting it over epoxy will make it last longer. You will be looking at the wrong side of $100 though by the time you buy primer and put on enough top coats and do a bit of colour trim.

Sixpence is being done with 2 pack poly which Mik assures me is the duck's guts and it had better be because the fines for removing duck's guts from endangered species are cheaper than buying the bloody paint:eek: However, it goes on very nicely, dries in a day or two and is really, really hard. Sixpence will be lucky to hit the water this year so I don't know how it'll go but I'm happy to accept Mik's assurances that it'll last ten years, especially if I never use the boat:D

You can't go cheap on the paint because even the cheap stuff costs the earth. When you think long term use versus short term money saving, it can be a hard decision ... made easier when you don't have the money - I too have sometimes had to choose the short term option because I couldn't afford the long term.

Timber - you will need timber. Shopping around is the way to go but it'll be a lot cheaper if you can machine it yourself. Again though, if you poxy coat, you can get away with timbers that may not be normally associated with boat building and save a bit that way - the Puddle Duck thread will give some tips there. The rudder and centreboard for Redback are just cheap, pine planks.

Toad (Mouseboat) was thrown together in a rush using cheap materials and with an eye to just getting something cheap onto the water quickly. In the end, she wasn't much cheaper than Scrat (same design but built properly) and didn't save a lot of time.

Then there is the design. Do you need a canoe? Perhaps a boat is better? Perhaps a rowboat? More power. Great load carrying ability. Greater versatility. Oh, that's right, MIK is designing one for me right now :D Seriously, it may be a better option for you and may not be any dearer. You don't need sails and sails add a whole new dimension to spending money. MIK's rowboat will be car toppable too.

Whatever design you choose, don't try to save by going cheap or free. Free plans are often duds (as has been explained elsewhere). Cheap isn't always good either - privately, I can tell a personal horror story about plans by a well known and respected designer who got this design wrong (it wouldn't suit you anyway). MIK is good, as is David Payne (both Aussies) and Iain Oughtred (Scottish). There are a bevy of British and American designers to choose from too.

Single Dad. Thirteen year old lad. That sounds a lot like me, only I've got a five year old daughter as well. The lad will want to use the boat on his own (which is why my son's got his Mouseboat). The lad might also decide he wants nothing to do with Dad's marine fetish. Some day, you might just want to take an attractive female with you. Choose a design that can be used single handed, will address all YOUR desires and needs, and which you can take a lady out in. MIK's Rowboat (will carry 3 easily) and his Eureka will do all of that, some designs may not.

Richard
got a feeling I've addressed all the wrong questions and answered none :confused:

[Daddles]

This piccy shows me becalmed in Redback and 'rowing' her with the rudder. To one side is my son in Scrat ... playing rescue boat - he's carrying my oars :D The Mouseboat is a fee design but a damned good one and most are built to be paddled - Scrat was the first Rowing Mouse ever built ;)

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=23878&d=1148202261

Richard

[swiftden]

I live next to the Murray River and would like to try me hand at building a canoe. where do i get the plans for this easy to build eureka?

[bitingmidge]

I live next to the Murray River and would like to try me hand at building a canoe. where do i get the plans for this easy to build eureka?
From Adelaide as it happens!

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~storerm/

Cheers,

P

[Wild Dingo]

13 year old boys have the attention span of a gnats bum and it only gets marginally better by 19!!

5 year old girls however have the attention and attention seeking spans of a preditory lioness with serious hunger pains this however gets WORSE as they get older... age becomes irrelevent with females theres no slowing it down no stopping it it just continues to worsen with every year... sorry girls its true accept it move on :D

As to boats... theres a vast humongus monsterously increadibly insanely massive amount of boat designs that fit your bill Julian... sad but true

Now aside from all Richards hooha up there to wit covering even the tinest emission from said gnats bum very well indeed ol chap well done by the way! :cool:
Anyway one of the best stories I can relate is about a fella in the states who has a couple of nipperoos about Richards nippers ages and sexes the younger girl bein slightly disabled whereas the older boy being quite severely disabled not much $$$ and not a lot of time on his hands what with workin and bringin these two munchkins up (ahem he does actually have a missus! poor weee chappie! ;) ) anyway he spends most time with the boy and anywya he decided that he and said laddie should build a boat... not just any boat... no it had to be THE boat... that one that he and his boy could wander about the rivers and streams across small lakes and in general become as Huckerberry Finn fishin and campin... so after several years of looking he settled on...

The Escargot

Escargot you ask? Yes indeed Escargot... no no not the Escargot the french snail although that was the impites for it as in originally it was designed to have to bicycle setups at the back for propulsion but eventually the designer made it outboard friendly

So anyway he and his son spent literally every waking hour they could working on the boat... finally it was done

Launched and adventures begun!! :cool:

Can provide further info if required but its often been on the near top of my easy do list ;)

[Mal Hiley]

With much trepidation I venture into the elite world of the 'wooden boat builders:D to humbly ask advice.
My son and I need to do a project together and i reacon a canoe would be ideal since the finished product should be at least as much fun as the building of it.
I'd like to use it for camping so it would need to be big enough to carry two people and camping gear for a long week end.
Since my 13 year old son has the attention span of a......well, of a 13 year old:D it would need to be quick and easy to build.
We are both almost complete novices in this field and therefore need somthing that is easy to use and hard to sink.

Can anyone suggest some plans that fit all or at least most of our criterior.
I read with much enthusiasim biting midges tale about the eureka canoe but I'm not sure it would be quite big enough, please correct me if I am wrong as other than size it looks ideal.
Oh, did I mention I'm a single parent so the budget is about $300 max

Thanks in advance
Julian

[Wild Dingo]

Well aside from Mals very well put increadibly articulated post :D Are you a Uni Prof by chance Mal? ;)

Sorry couldnt resist :p

Okay... back to canoes... a vast plethoria of plans exist now with that comment you can shell out way more than that 300 budget just on a set of plans! :eek: ... lets not start about the price of kits either :rolleyes:

BUT!! All is not lost my friend... in fact you could do worse than that canoe that was designed and built through this forum ala the Midgey one and Doug... and for Swiften? the plans can be gotten from Mik or the forum I believe? could be wrong I guess but then again I got completely confused by that long thread... ah bein a simple fella has its benifits ;)

Now what I did

Get your bum to the library!!
Book with plans offsets included are Building Featherweight canoes by Mac McCarthy... and there the old one Canoe somthing or other by some strange named dude in the far outback of yankee land who was a champion paddler and is now a ranger tour guide dude for the outback river systems up there his book if I can ever remember what it or he was called had the plans offsets for 6 canoes in it from a 14fter which he states is the smallest anyone should go down to to the 20+fter Grand Lakker... also has one that has a transom for mounting a small ouboard

Some books that say they have plans but dont... well I couldnt bloody find any! Are any by Ted Moores or Chris Chreswhateverthehell his last name was Chris I must admit did do Kayaks rather than canoes

Okay another way... do the muddle brain thing... oooh HEY!! heres a thought get the program FreeShip from the net and download the program and the notes by some bloke included are all the info needed to build a canoe by Rushton... no I havent checked it Ive just mucked with the program when I build my canoes they will be strip planked ones not another ply

Oh heres a go if you can get hold of an old woodenboat mag... dont remember which one but there was an article called "building the 6 hour canoe" yes all info required is there... That was the one that was the basis for my own legendary canoeythingy

All the best

Oh and Mal? You can comment if you want mate... seriously go for it!! :cool:

[Daddles]

And don't forget, that last post was brought to you by the Wild Dingo, the same gentle character that designed and built the Canoethingy - a wondrous craft that utterly failed in it's design intention by bringing the Hoons back safe to shore :D

Richard

private joke, only the Mad Dingo's intended to understand it;)

[Wild Dingo]

:D :D :D Well hey I tried!!! :p Bloody ratbags just plain like it here cant get rid of the buggars! :rolleyes:

And theres the reason I gotta build a bigger boat!! :cool:

ahem... so I can buggar of!! leave them to it ;) :D

HA!! I WIN :p :D

We started with 8 hoons and somehow were now up to 12... and 1 grand hoon with another brewin! :eek: I NEED TO ESCAPE!!! :mad:

ahem... seriously?? :D

But Mal? You can post a comment or two if you want! Honest mate we wont have a go at yer :cool: ..will we Richard me ol Daddleydaddles :p okay not much but hey were a freindly bunch of old pharts :cool: oooh gawd I crack myself up today!! :p That wee young fella little Richard DaddleyDaddles as an old phart hahahahhaaha :D :D oohh gawd strewth Shane stop it!! :o

[Daddles]

Someone give the mad bugga a pile of timber, a box of nails and some plans PLEASE :rolleyes:

Richard

[Wild Dingo]

HEY!!!! I see youve got your age in your profile thingy there on the side Richard!... mmmm man you are OLD aint yer... OLD

OLD

OLDY

OLDY OLDY OLDY!!

Yes indeed DaddleyDaddles is OLDer than OLDmud :D

mmmm 49? :o

sshhhhhhhhhhh Shane... quietly exit stage left... sshhhhhhhhhhh not another word ;)

[bitofascallywag]

well here is a tip if you are an adventrous sort of bloke or maybe your son will become the adventrous sort with age and testosterone...a friend and i in a canadian poly 2 man canoe with 3 horse yammy attached attempted the river next door.spur of the moment type thing as i had just bought an 1800 dollar digital slr and was looking for those speccy type photos............any way to cut a long story short went up this creek until yammy would no longer make headway......around 8 to 12 knots i imagine as the creek was in half flood,turned motor off and decided to paddle,within around 1 minute clipped a log and had to fight for survival in 8 deg waters,very very lucky a log did not grab either of us as it would of been game over without a doubt,bailed out in neck deep water with a gold pan,retrieved all gear as we went downstream,including 1800 camera which was rooted as they do not like water,yes i will do it again but am going to fit an outrigger first,maybe 6 inch poly or similar.........

[Wild Dingo]

and a cheeper camera eh! :eek: