my first ....

[Jenny Brandis]

Sounds like a virgin :)

The three things at the bottom are the first pen I have turned using Jarrah and left over acrylic from husbands pen turning - it is surposed to look like an overlarge East Midlands Bobbin. - Did that today just after I turned the mushrooms in green wood. Think that is raintree?

What do you think? and be honest as it is the only way I will learn.:o

[Grizz]

very nice Jenny. I love the mushrooms and the acrylic really highlights the pen.

Grizz

[echnidna]

They all look great Jenny.
You have a good eye for style.

Perhaps the pen could have been sanded with a finer grit.

[TurnedAround]

You go girl! Good work. I'm sure you will find as I did that experience will become your best critic.

By the way, those mushrooms are great with a little fresh garlic and sauteed in extra virgin olive oil.;)

[ss_11000]

what size drill bit do you use when drilling the pen?
how does the pen ink stay in there, is it glued, if so how do you get new ink?
did u do it using a chuck or just normally between centres?

btw... great work and designs,

[Jenny Brandis]

what size drill bit do you use when drilling the pen?
how does the pen ink stay in there, is it glued, if so how do you get new ink?
did u do it using a chuck or just normally between centres?

btw... great work and designs,

The drill bit was a 5/32

If I am real careful when drilling the pen slips in but tight enough to stay in - if I get sloppy - which I did with the second attempt - I needed to use superglue so renewing the ink will be a problem.

I used the jacobs chuck to hold the pen after I had rounded it off, held the drill bit in my hand and gently followed the hole made by the tailstock. Second time I used a pair of pliers to hold the drill bit but it jiggled at the wrong time and enlarged the hole opening :(

[Jenny Brandis]

what size drill bit do you use when drilling the pen?
how does the pen ink stay in there, is it glued, if so how do you get new ink?
did u do it using a chuck or just normally between centres?

btw... great work and designs,

The drill bit was a 5/32

If I am real careful when drilling the pen slips in but tight enough to stay in - if I get sloppy - which I did with the second attempt - I needed to use superglue so renewing the ink will be a problem.

I used the jacobs chuck to hold the pen after I had rounded it off, held the drill bit in my hand and gently followed the hole made by the tailstock. Second time I used a pair of pliers to hold the drill bit but it jiggled at the wrong time and enlarged the hole opening :(

[Gil Jones]

Nice work, Jenny. Cool 'shrooms, and while I do not know about bobbins, the pen is an interesting design with the wood/acrylic combination. You might consider smoothing out the surface (and finish) with 0000 steel wool for a soft, silky look and feel.

[Jenny Brandis]

You might consider smoothing out the surface (and finish) with 0000 steel wool for a soft, silky look and feel.

Steel wol comes in different grades? How would I use it? Still on the lathe?

[CameronPotter]

Steel wool for finishing (from a woodie store) comes in different grades with 0000 being the finest.

However, some people don't recommend that you use it. I never have, so I can't say either way.

As for use I reckon that Gil will enlighten us! :D Could well be worth a try at least.

[OGYT]

I think they make steel wool in grades even finer than 0000, now, but I can't get it here.
I use 0000 all the time. It's just one of the steps in finishing nearly anything... before I do any wet sanding.
I use it on the lathe, and off sometimes.
Jenny, I think a buffing system like mine would do you good. I made it, so you could too. Let me know if you're curious.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I dislike using steel wool on unfinished timber, as sometimes particles embed in the grain and react with any latent moisture in the wood... making rust marks under the finish. :(

However, after sanding down with fine grits of paper and applying the first coat of finish, I often use 0000 wool between coats to get rid of those annoying air-borne specks. Occasionally I'll use it after the final coat to create a satin finish. This is both on the lathe and off. ;)

[Gil Jones]

I reckon everyone has their own ways of doing things, and I can understand Skew not wanting rust spots under a finish (especially a water-based finish), or on green wood.
Personally, I like steel wool, and use it often, on bare wood, and to smooth out a finish (I use it by hand, in small amounts, like sand paper). On the lathe (spinning or not), and off give good results for me. I have never had rust spots from it, but when I see tiny pieces caught in the wood grain, I just pull it out with a small piece of tape. I am not fond of gloss finishes, and 0000 steel wool produces a very soft, smooth surface, which can be lightly buffed back to a fair gloss in seconds.
I have heard of 000000 steel wool, but never found it for sale anywhere.
I do not know what 0000 steel wool costs in OZ, but it is reasonably inexpensive over here, and a pack of it lasts me quite a while. Try it, and see if you like the results.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

You've either better eyes or a lot more patience than me, then. :D

Jim Carrol (http://cws-store.yahoostore.com.au/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_product_details?category_id=1107144824&product_id=1107369818) is selling Rustin's 225g packs of 0000 steel wool for $7.95.

[RETIRED]

I know that I am preaching to the converted BUT be very careful using steel wool on a running lathe.

It can grab quickly and has a habit of getting tangled in fingers.

I didn't do it but one of my students did.

[Jenny Brandis]

Well I have now learned something - turning green wood feels fantastic as it curls off so beautifully. Second thing I learned - turned green wood splits. My cute little mushrooms are preparing themselves for saute - both have split on the top and the bark is starting to pull away.

Darn, and they are so cute too.:(

[Gil Jones]

Skew, I have very little patients, but the little steel strands are fairly easy to spot. I usually use crocus cloth after the wool (on unfinished wood), and then a piece of brown paper bag to burnish the wood surface.
, you are very right about the steel wool snagging on the wood and possibly tangling up a finger or two. That is why I only use small puffs of it, about the size of a golf ball or less. Never wrap a finger in the wool if using it on a spinning lathe!

[Hickory]

I'll be honest with you...
What do you think? and be honest as it is the only way I will learn.
It really is a nice set of Mushrooms and (although pens don't turn me on) the pen as well. As a new turner there are other things you need to be doing. Tis fun to make things but it is more fun to make things when you are agile with the tools and the things you make come out exactly as you had planned them to do. (Whew, say that in one breath )
Anyway, as a former WWing teacher I'd like to pass some hints that I used when I was teaching my students to turn. PRACTICE Just like the piano teacher said.... Take several pieces of stock and turn dowels, use the gouge correctly and turn them smooth and true, use a calipers & Parting tool and turn them to a pre determined diameter. Make several of them (all will be used later) predetermine different diameters and hold to it. After you make saveral dowels. Then mark off (as iff you were making a duplicate table leg project, equal spacing for beads. (all spindle turning is a combination of beads, coves and tapers) Using the skew, practice cutting the beads, repeatedly until you can make perfect beads at will. Select another dowel, mark off a predetermined spacing for coves, using a small gouge, cut coves repeatedly untill you can cut them at will. (see where I am going here?) Practice using each of the tools at hand, untill you know well how to hold them and how they cut. You can do the same with scraping tools. Now that you know them use them Use the parting tool and cut predetermined depths and either cove or bead the edges. cit tapers and combinations but not in hapenstance, make a simple drawing and predetermine how you want them. When you can do thes things you can feel confident to be a turner.

A fellow says I let the piece speak for me and turn what the wood shows, is full of unskilled crap. Pre plan what you want and follow that plan, there is the skill. (Okay, so a piece has a special feature or figuring and you want to imbellish that feature, sure, then alter the plan... but then you have made a plan and adapted to the circumstance. Writers call it poetic justice. We call it artistic interpretation, Actors call it Adlib. But Start with a plan and follow that plan. Then you will find real satisfaction in your work, not just happenstance.

Again, I like the Mushrooms but most anybody can make a mushroom( many Lathe teachers have students practice making mushrooms, I prefer a planned activity) Work with exact measurements and accomplish that task and the rest will follow. Develop the skill through practice and any design will seem easy. ("I can do that")

Tell the old man to get a new lathe, you're taking over this one....

[CameronPotter]

Hickory,

I am sure that you are a better turner than me, after all I am fairly new at this, but in the past when I have worked to a pre-designed shape I not only got bored, but I actually found that I wasn't feeling creative. I understand where you are coming from and I CAN replicate things and work to an exact (well fairly exact) plan, but I find that I enjoy the entire process much more if it is interactive the whole time.

This is less to do with being incapable than how I enjoy working. For instance, my jewellery work and knife work is much slower to get to form so I tend to design first, build second, but even then, I like to be open to alternatives.

Basically, my point is that lathe work is creative. Don't stifle this by slavishly working to a plan.

Just opinions of course...

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

A fellow says I let the piece speak for me and turn what the wood shows, is full of unskilled crap. Pre plan what you want and follow that plan, there is the skill.

Hmmm... I could almost take offence at that. I'm perfectly capable of production turning, of preplanning a form and accurately turning it out as a one-off or in bulk. But, like Cameron, that's not what I'm into turning for. If I only turned when I needed/wanted a certain item the lathe'd see use maybe every season, instead of my nearly daily basis.

Much of my turning material is from <6" trees... crotches and short lengths with features. (Everything else goes into my cabinetry. :rolleyes: ) Until it's roughed, I'm never too sure just how much of it is usable; not infrequently what is mounted to start a goblet ends up as a bud vase or something else. It's the timber that dictates this and I'm quite happy for it to be so. After all, I don't need more goblets... they're just what comes off the lathe when I've nothing else to do. I prefer to maximise the use of the materials to hand.

I agree that one should be able to plan and execute a design... but to say that letting the wood speak to you is crap? Tsk, tsk! :p

[CameronPotter]

Arrrghhh Watch out Skew! We agree... :eek: ;)

The other thing is that often something that looks good on paper looks awful in wood (and vice versa).

Cam

[Hickory]

You miss the point.... She is LEARNING (that was her own word) I agree it is boring but it is learning to develop the skill necessary to do the creative turning we all enjoy. MaKing the dowels and then the beads and coves and tapers develops the skills. then go to the fun. that is my point.

[CameronPotter]

Ahhh. Fair enough.

However, I think that Skew and I were both responding to the line:

A fellow says I let the piece speak for me and turn what the wood shows, is full of unskilled crap. Pre plan what you want and follow that plan, there is the skill.


But I do agree that learning the simple forms first is a good idea.

Cam

[Wild Dingo]

I think these blokes have gone of on a tangent here and missed your last post Jen

What you said up there Jenny is that the shrooms have cracked and the barks come away? damn thats a right buggar! BUT!! think positively... these ones are nackered sad but thats cool... YOU HAVE MADE THEM ONCE... you CAN do it again!! So get crackin girl!!! :cool:

Excellent work by the by... I love it the way the sheilas are gettin into woodbutcherin!! bloody awesome :cool: ... although I dont know how you blokes can handle havin the missus in the shed playin with yer toys tidyin things up and such :eek: ...Id have to build another shed if mine got into it... whew thank gawd shes got no interest in the creative side of woodbutcherin only the results :cool:

Oh and Hickory ol son... the wood can speak to you as to what it should be... a certain peice lends itself to a particular outcome... full of crap? maybe but some have the touch to do it... some dont but some do a feel an inner knowledge something that just comes to them and they do it and there it is... just a little more mystery to add to the mix ;)

[TTIT]

You miss the point.... She is LEARNING (that was her own word) I agree it is boring but it is learning to develop the skill necessary to do the creative turning we all enjoy. MaKing the dowels and then the beads and coves and tapers develops the skills. then go to the fun. that is my point.

Nice save Hickory - I was just about to put in my 2 bobs worth then. Have to agree with Skew - if I didn't let the wood decide what will come from it, I'd be lucky to produce anything more than spinning tops!

[hughie]

Hi All, heres my two bobs worth or dimes worth ....:D

For me being as thick as the wood is, it don't talk to me much.....sigh. If only I wus more sensitive. :p

I usually start out with a general idea of what I would like to achieve. However ambition often meets ability head on with some damn fine firewood being made in the process. :mad:

So heres my take on it all

As experience grows with ability and the eye much better at judging form and shape. It is then we get better at the craft and we can wing it more often. That is we see the potential of the wood as we look it over prior to turning and have a few ideas of which way to go. At the same time giving our selves the freedom to change the idea as we peel off the chips.

I think most us of at some time or other have finished a bowl etc and stood back and looked crictically at where we could improve on it. Becuse creativity is involved it will never be an exact science.

As Hickory states, we walk then run later and if your gonna walk properly you have work whats involved with the walk.

Don't worry Jen no matter how good anybody gets. They were once beginners :D .As for wood splitting, well, you wanna see my chuck out pile it would make a professional turner weep :eek:
Anyway I like what you have shown us so far and look forward to seeing more of your work.

hughie

[CameronPotter]

As for the wood splitting, see my thread on fast drying wood... I haven't had a piece crack since using the bucket of detergent and metho method.

Cam

[Hickory]

I"m not saying that you must set a plan and follow to the letter, on every project. If you are building a set of chairs, you have a set plan with a turned design for the legs and the rungs, You follow that plan precisely to get a good out come. If you are making a Pen or bottle stopper the same hold true, you have a set plan with size and dimension limitation as well as design shape. You follow a plan.

When doing creative ideas you still have a set plan. either drawn or mental plan. Sure you look at the piece of wood and you see in the wood an object. You set forth a plan (mental or sketched) and you work toward that plan to achieve the final output. Seldom does a piece turn out right when all you do is chuck up a chunk and start turning and "lets see what this has in it".

Many time when making an artistic piece some figuring or spalting or grain configuration will emerge that you see as an interesting feature, to continue with the plan will distroy the feature so you alter the plan, You in your mind's drawing board set forth on another plan your creative abilities identify how to best express the interesting detail of the piece of wood. Has nothing to do with the piece speaking to you.

Even if you are making a set of table legs you see in the wood weather or not the grain will allow the design or if knots and figures will distort or enhance better on another piece rather than the leg. You make a predetermined decision. (OR at least I would hope you select your wood wisely and not by a draw of the lot) With such a project all pieces must duplicate exactly and there is where real skill is applied. Many a turner can spin a beautiful Candle holder but few can turn a pair, and fewer still can turn a set of table legs that match. Thus determining the real skill at turning. (Not talking duplicators here, talking about hand turned by skilled craftsman)

What I said about the practice is what determines weather the real skill comes to play or just lucky chain of events.

I too make decisions on a project design because of grain configuration and my careless slips and snags, but when I make a project where the plan is layed out I replace the "Altered" piece with another and continue to follow the plan. Later I may come back and re use that miss shaped piece and create something else with it, but not as part of the original designed piece.

Spindle turning is more precise in the planned outcome as this is where duplications and size limitations are of most important. Faceplate (or chuck) turning weather bowl or box or hollow form leads itself more to following the grain or figuring when approaching the desired shape. you can express yourself more freely in these kinds of turning. But it is still a Design Change.

My point is that one needs to develop the skills and tool techniques to be able to turn a piece the way he/she wants it, not the way it just happened to turn out.

Sorry if I fuffled some feathers but I have been at this a long time and have been to shows and seen some really "Crappy" turnings with excellant finishes that have been thought by some to be great works when actually it was luck and finish that was made.

PS: I hope this is precieved as a healthy discussion and not raggin on anybody.... These are my personal opinions and should be taken with a glass of Kentucky Bourbon. (or your favorite grog)

OH Yes! I forgot Jenny, Soak the Mushrooms in Denatured Alcohol overnight and then wrap them in brown paper sack for a couple of weeks and they will cure out nicely. If already cracked and pealing , Too bad, too late... Some figure that to an interesting feature. You tore open the ed grain and are letting all the juices out. A good sealing finish on all surfaces Under as well, should stop any progressive disorder, but not cure already damageed areas.

[hughie]

Sorry if I fuffled some feathers but I have been at this a long time and have been to shows and seen some really "Crappy" turnings with excellant finishes that have been thought by some to be great works when actually it was luck and finish that was made.

Hickory, no worries, your opinion is welcomed by all but the overly sensitive of which we seem to have none :D

Crappy turnings and good finishes, along with good turnings and crappy finishes as well, are not that uncommon.
hughie

[Hickory]

Hughie... Perhaps I was too harsh calling "Speaks for itself" Crap but I was eroniously trying to state a point. The point being that a turner has a plan in mind and how he/she addresses that piece of wood is how the piece turns out. If he addresses it with a set plan then the chances of success is improved. If he/she addresses the piece by grinding away wood till a project emerges, then success is often a case of happenstance.

Cameron... I draw my pleasure from the completion of a project. The steps and procedures to accomplish the finished product. Laborious turning of identical parts may not suit your tea bag but I draw pleasure from knowing that it is done properly and the way it was intended. My joints fit tight and my dimensions are right. I enjoy figuring out how to make the project almost as much as the process. Perhaps that is why I spend more time making jigs and fixtures than in actual construction. (I also color by staying inside the lines and use the same pressure on all my crayons :p ) But I think outside the box on many occasions and have known to turn a few creative pieces in my time. But once I have turned that piece I am able to duplicate with exact detail because I learned to use my tools properly and with successful technique. That is what I was trying to convey to Jenny in her learning stages of wood turning.

I'm not the best thats ever been but I am working at being the best I can be, and that is where the pleasure comes.

Now I will retire to the Tele and enjoy a glass of Bourbon over ice, whilst you guys watch the termites carve out a didgeridoo.:D

Have a good weekend as I am off on a fishing trip with my son, that is a more pleasurable experience than spouting Woodturning opinions.

Did I mention that I have been considered opinionated? I may not always be right, but By God I ain't never wrong....

Seizure next week.

[hughie]

Did I mention that I have been considered opinionated? I may not always be right, but By God I ain't never wrong....



Hickory Did you ever notice we are only "opinionated" if we don't agree with the other :D

Good luck with fishing
hughie

[CameronPotter]

Cameron... I draw my pleasure from the completion of a project. The steps and procedures to accomplish the finished product. Laborious turning of identical parts may not suit your tea bag but I draw pleasure from knowing that it is done properly and the way it was intended. My joints fit tight and my dimensions are right. I enjoy figuring out how to make the project almost as much as the process...

Fair enough, but I won't say that your method is "crap" because I prefer to do things in another way. Each to their own is the way I think about it.

As for fitting joints etc. I have made plenty of vacuum fit boxes and pens where the external midband is a press fit instead of a glued joint. I also really enjoy figuring out how to make something, but I also enjoy following the wood and producing something that works for me at the time. Evaluation of form is really only opinion, I know that there are basic rules, but even those change with time.

One day I will finish off my chess set, but I am aware that the board will be the awkward stage, not the pieces. I am fully confident that I can do production turning if I choose, but, I usually don't - especially for bowls.

Cam

[Caveman]

Hi Jenny - nice work - like the mushrooms, sorry to hear they have split - I have tried several green ones and they also split. I found that giving a well sealed finish (oil and wax) tended to stop the cracking.



Jenny, I think a buffing system like mine would do you good. I made it, so you could too. Let me know if you're curious.

OGYT - not sure if anyone else showed any interest in your buffing system. I am curious, so if you wouldn't mind sharing it I would be interested as I have thought about making myself one.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Jenny, another of the reasons that your mushrooms split is because they still contain the heartwood or pith. It often shrinks at a lower rate than the sapwood when things cure, causing the splits to start in the outside. From there they progress into the middle, being the "weak point" as it were. Mind you, other trees, mainly fruits, tend to do things backwards and shrink more in the heart... but the principle is the same.

This is why most turners who fell their own logs tend to split the log down the middle, often removing the heartwood altogether, before they put 'em aside to dry or use. Not that this'd apply to your mushrooms (bit hard to keep bark all the way 'round once you've split it! :rolleyes: ) but I thought I'd give you a bit more of an explanation as to the why's of it.

Sealing your 'shrooms with an oil or similar would've slowed down the drying process and possibly reduced the severity of the splits, but they'd probably still split given enough time. Sad fact. Still, often a few smaller splits actually enhance the mushroom look, giving it a "ragged edge" appearance.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Hickory Did you ever notice we are only "opinionated" if we don't agree with the other :D

Gawd help us if ever everyone here thought the same! Then I may as well log onto one of the.. "overseas" (me being tactful? :eek: ) boards where freedom of expression only applies if it maintains the status quo. :rolleyes:

[OGYT]

Andy - "not sure if anyone else showed any interest in your buffing system. I am curious, so if you wouldn't mind sharing it I would be interested as I have thought about making myself one."

Andy, I made four wheels, all of 'em 8" diameter, when I was recuperating from a heart attack... I cut circles of the following materials, 'til I had a stack to make a wheel. Then sewed the stack together from the center out to about the middle. 1. Felt 2 1/2" thick wheel, for Tripoli.(had a lot of felt :) 2. Denim/Polyester mix, 1" thick, for White Diamond. 3. Cotton Denim, 1" thick, for Carnauba. 4. Cotton Flannel, 1" thick for final buffing.
I put a 1/2" bolt through the center of each wheel with washers (both sides) and nut. Left about 1/2" of the bolt protruding, after tightening it down.
I put an "arbor" for mounting a grinding wheel on a 1/2 hp (1725rpm) motor shaft, and re-threaded the arbor end to accept a long nut the same size as the 1/2 " bolts in the wheels. Only put the nut on about 1/2", that way I have a 1/2" female to accept the wheel center bolts.
I rewired the motor to run counter-clockwise, so the wheels would stay on while I buffed a piece.
When I attach the wheel, and turn it on, it buffs like a dream. And it comes off easily, after I put a leather washer on the wheel bolt.
I'll try to get some pics later on. Right now I'm pretty busy, trying to get my shop ready for a new lathe. :D (Have to move some things, and remove some completely, rewire a pedestal in the center for 240V, and put in another breaker box, etc.)
Hope you can make sense out of my instructions... :confused:
OGYT

[Caveman]

Al (OGYT) - yup makes sense - thanks for the info - hope to put it to use sometime soon.
I generally only use beeswax after oiling with linseed - any idea what material would be best for the application of beeswax? (I guess the cotton/denim type material)?