mdf/custom wood

[looney]

a chap i hired for a few years is seriously ill with a brain tumor, top bloke, great worker and firm mate

he is no fool and has been investigating causes

there seems to be very few known links, but one is to a chemical used in mdf or customwood (not sure which, or if they are in fact the same thing)

but he worked as a cabinet maker renovator for years and used the stuff

he told me that they will not cut it when you buy it for safety reasons, but do not broadcast why

anyone else know of this?

[ozwinner]

Unfortuneatly all man made board is a danger to your health when cutting, I think it is the glue.
Read here. (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=mdf+cancer&meta=)

Al :(

[looney]

he thinks it is not communicated enough

if they don't want to cut it for you, take it as a sign

mask lads :(

[ozwinner]

he thinks it is not communicated enough



Ignorance is no excuse unfortunatly.

Its really bad news that he has any form of illness from doing a job he obviously loves, but he should have kept himself well informed of industry changes.

He could have kept informed by joining an industry body like MBA or HIA, or contacting unions etc.

Al :(

[CameronPotter]

Equally unfortunately, for those of us who aren't in the trade, it is difficult to expect us all to be aware of all of the problems (or of even who to contact regarding these issues), as we can't join such unions I believe...

Thus, it would be good if there was some more awareness about such health risks. :(

[ozwinner]

Im not in the ( cabinetmaker ) trade and am aware of the dangers.
There was a story on the tv some years (10 or more years) ago about it.

Al :(

[Stuart]

Go to my site (www.tritonwoodworkers.org.au) and scroll down to Safety Articles. In there you will find an article by Mark Loader (an Occupational Health and Safety Advisor with the Master Builders Association of Victoria) about MDF dangers, and the reasons why it is.

[echnidna]

It was the formalin used in the resins that was the major concern.
But very fine dust from cutting it is also unhealthy.

[looney]

maybe it's the drugs :D

[Stuart]

I have no problems getting my mdf cut at bunnings, I can fully understand why your friend is looking for a reason though.

When you get deep into sanding edges etc, the stuff starts looking like something not of this world. lol:eek: :D ;)

Maybe it's all the dust in my eyes:eek:


HJ0

That's unusual, because as I understand it, Bunnings don't let their staff cut MDF because of the OHS risk (and presumably the future potential law suits).

[CameronPotter]

Im not in the ( cabinetmaker ) trade and am aware of the dangers.
There was a story on the tv some years (10 or more years) ago about it.

Al :(

I was aware of it too - but I tend to try to be super safe where possible; afterall, I only have one body. However, I can easily understand how someone wouldn't have heard such things. For instance CA glue, plenty of people still don't know about how nasty that stuff is.

Cam

[Markw]

I been told that the chemical entity is formaldehyde. Back in the 80's, extended family BIL used to work at an artificial timber (Ply & MDF) manufacturer up in the Oberon area.

On a good day he would come home with a headache, on bad days, bleeding nose, blood shot eyes and the headache. Always crook with some virus or other.

He didn't last at the place all that long and ended up saying that he would rather be on the dole that put up with those sort of conditions. Definitely a smart move to get out but hard on his family. Haven't touched the stuff since.

PS Sorry Echidna, didn't realise that Formalin and Formaldehyde are one in the same. Its combined with phenol to produce a phenolic resin (glue) to bond the material together.

[Markw]

For instance CA glue, plenty of people still don't know about how nasty that stuff is.


Cameron, If we continue to call it CA instead of Cyanoacrylate where some might notice the "Cyano" (a cyanide compound) or even "acrylate" (acrylic compound??) and could see for themselves that caution is warranted.

To quote some text from wikipedia:-
The most dangerous cyanides are hydrogen cyanide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_cyanide) (HCN) and salts derived from it, such as potassium cyanide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_cyanide) (KCN) and sodium cyanide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_cyanide) (NaCN), but including others. Also some compounds readily release HCN or the cyanide ion, such as trimethylsilyl cyanide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimethylsilyl_cyanide) (CH3)3SiCN upon contact with water and cyanoacrylates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanoacrylate) upon pyrolysis.

[HJ0]

[quote=stuart_lees]That's unusual, because as I understand it, Bunnings don't let their staff cut MDF because of the OHS risk (and presumably the future potential law suits).[/quote


..................................................................

Not unusual for me, because if they don't cut mdf it will not fit in my vechicle which means no sale for them.

OHS risk maybe, but I'm not paying approx 40% more to buy little pre cut managable mdf sizes.

Running a business is about taking risks in some form or another. When people purchase(are employed or run) anything there will always be some kind of risk involved before during and after.

ie Traveling to/waiting for/dealing with, who knows what nasty ingredience after purchase.

The average person has enough on their plate, without the worry of a company doing the right or wrong things.Thats why we pay politicans/lawyers etc etc etc huge bucks.


HJ0

[Lignum]

I been told that the chemical entity is formaldehyde. Back in the 80's, extended family BIL used to work at an artificial timber (Ply & MDF) manufacturer up in the Oberon area.

On a good day he would come home with a headache, on bad days, bleeding nose, blood shot eyes and the headache. Always crook with some virus or other.



I use urea formaldahyde alot because its a brilliant glue. I always use gloves because if it gets on my skin even for a minute it gives me realy bad migranes. MDF isnt a problem for me at all, even on the rare occasion im cutting up a great load of it i fell no effect at all.

The latest reserch from the UK staits their is no problem with MDF as the chemicals dissipate and lose any harmfull effect almost as soon as its cut.

[Markw]

Not unusual for me, because if they don't cut mdf it will not fit in my vechicle which means no sale for them.

OHS risk maybe, but I'm not paying approx 40% more to buy little pre cut managable mdf sizes.

Running a business is about taking risks in some form or another. When people purchase(are employed or run) anything there will always be some kind of risk involved before during and after.



Sorry but I disagree :mad:
Business is not about taking risks but managing those risks. Maybe your a sole trader and think that the only person's neck your normally risking is your own.

Managing risk means understanding the risk then applying a control whether its eliminating the risk ie don't use MDF or at the low end of the scale using PPE such as using a dust respirator.

Personally if I was in the management of Bunnies Lumber section I wouldn't give two hoots if you purchased a mingey piece of MDF somewhere else cause in the grand scheme of things that purchase is negligible. Obviously Management has failed in their responsibility to their staff to provide a safe system of work or an employee has failed to perform work in a safe manner in accordance with Safe Work Methods.

If your an employer and you take risks with your employees because you think risk is part of work life, then sooner or later the dice will roll against you. Can you bear telling the family of an injured or dead employee "hey that was a risk I expected him/her to take".

[Markw]

The latest reserch from the UK staits their is no problem with MDF as the chemicals dissipate and lose any harmfull effect almost as soon as its cut.

Lignum
I suppose it might be different at the factory where the formaldehyde stuff is dissipating out as it comes out of the cooker thingys or in the warehouse ready to be shipped.

[HJ0]

Sorry but I disagree :mad:
Business is not about taking risks but managing those risks. Maybe your a sole trader and think that the only person's neck your normally risking is your own.

Managing risk means understanding the risk then applying a control whether its eliminating the risk ie don't use MDF or at the low end of the scale using PPE such as using a dust respirator.

Personally if I was in the management of Bunnies Lumber section I wouldn't give two hoots if you purchased a mingey piece of MDF somewhere else cause in the grand scheme of things that purchase is negligible. Obviously Management has failed in their responsibility to their staff to provide a safe system of work or an employee has failed to perform work in a safe manner in accordance with Safe Work Methods.

If your an employer and you take risks with your employees because you think risk is part of work life, then sooner or later the dice will roll against you. Can you bear telling the family of an injured or dead employee "hey that was a risk I expected him/her to take".
......................................................................




Don't be sorry.

We can manage all the risks we like. But the fact remains they are still risks which need to be taken, In order to get through the working/business day.

Funny you talked about the manager , because The manager of the timber section is the guy who mostly cuts the mdf for me.

MINGEY? maybe if I was the only private customer in the stores area, who didn't have the means of carrying home 8x4 sheets of mdf in their vechicle.(But i know i'm not)

I would love a dollar for everytime some other customer has been in the store, waiting infront or behind me for mdf to be sized. So they can fit it in their cars.

Take away bunnings wood sales to non trades people and see how fast their risk management goes into overdrive. (DIY ww is big business lol)

Mingey little pieces of anything sold all add up to dollars and cents.

HJ0 Damn my wife makes great rockcakes... yummy:D

[DPB]

This thread has focused on the danger of inhaling dust from MDF.

There is little point on highlighting this danger as somehow being different from the danger of inhaling any foreign particle into ones lungs. The more I read and the longer I live, the more I conclude that particles of any substance are a danger to ones health if inhaled into the lungs.

Things like asbestos, tobacco, MDF dust, wood-dust (read http://tinyurl.com/2ab2f ), read the article in the current issue of THE TRITON WOODWORKER http://www.tritonwoodworkers.org.au/ (scroll down to Newsletter) and read the article entitled "Wood Dust - Don't be Complacent", page 14.

Woodworkers need to be very careful. If nothing else, wear a small face mask of the medical variety. If you spend hours blowing blood out of your nose and have hacking dry cough-fits following a session in your shed - your body is trying to tell you something. :eek:

[looney]

slow down folks

government to take notice and legislate, common!

it is only when the accountants of these entities notice the cost of fixing it is less than the cost of the problem is when things change, governments do not care a rats #### for lives, even more so business

or am i just cynical :rolleyes:

[Carpenter]

Not cynical Looney, just an astute observer unafaid of reality!

[Lignum]

Lignum
I suppose it might be different at the factory where the formaldehyde stuff is dissipating out as it comes out of the cooker thingys or in the warehouse ready to be shipped.


Ive seen it being made in Perth and its controlled and sealed enclosures. And at the warehouse their would be no danger whatsoever.

Interesting though, when it leaves the manufacturer it is wrapped in plastic with the wording that "It may be harmfull to your health" clearly covering them in case of the worst case senario, but that is quickly taken of and disposed of when it gets to the warehouses for public sale.

But the UK report i read was aimed at the end user who is cutting it and the fact that their is no harmfull efects of the chemicals. But fine dust is still fine dust and its still not good to breath, so just use a mask.

[HJ0]

DPB I remember watching a show years back, they had an expert walking through a newly built house with a meter.Obtaining VOC ratings from floor coverings/paint/furniture/new car(in the garage lol)/ etc etc.

Then he went outside the house and tested the air quality, I know where we all should be living and sleeping lol, and it's not in a house or car.

New car rating was a shocker, ie all them chemicals/plastics/glues/foam/etc leech our for at least 5 years, wether driving safely or not lol.






HJ0

[Stuart]

But new cars smell so good.......

[scooter]

Bunnings has a strict policy of wearing appropriate PPE, ie. cartridge mask, safety specs & earmuffs when cutting panels to size.

Yeah, I know, it's probably only worn half the time (if that :rolleyes: ) but it's the policing, not the policy that is at fault there. Also the "she'll be right" attitude of many, you can lead a horse to water...

With regard to the fomaldehyde exposure, the MDF that is carried at Bunnings (and possibly all that is on sale in Oz anyway ? ) is Low Formaldehyde Emission (LFE), which I think is different to the stuff that was sold years ago when it first came out (& may be what Mark's BIL was subject to).


Cheers..............Sean, LFE :D

[Markw]

But new cars smell so good.......

30 Years ago I was an apprentice mech and fitting out new vehicles with all the lights and racks and storage containers for the electrical workers (linesmen, specialist electricians etc). In the end I grew to hate that sickly sweet smell of a new vehicle and now I wouldn't have one. Its not the cost or depreciation, its that damned smell. SWMBO can't seem to understand it. :(

[Markw]

it is only when the accountants of these entities notice the cost of fixing it is less than the cost of the problem is when things change, governments do not care a rats #### for lives, even more so business

or am i just cynical :rolleyes:

Sometimes its the cost of the employee taking the risk.

There's the cost of immediate medical treatment, then on-going care which of course is the compensation part. Maybe $20M if the employee was pregnant and it cause TPI of the mother and this child. Oh but the insurance pays this? Yes this year then adds this amount to next years premium. Might of been cheaper if the contaminant had of killed both of them outright when you think of these costs.

Then there is the cost to train a new employee and the advertising to get a new employee and down time for the factory while he learns the local proceedures even if he was qualified.

Then there is WorkCovers investigation and your need for a solicitor to defend the indefencible. It was not a safe system of work, no if, no buts, no maybes. So now the Industrial Court has fined you tens of thousands for an unsafe work practice and you still have to fix the problems which caused it in the first place. How longs a piece of string for this cost?

So now the company is in receivership.

Would have been easier to avoid taking the risk by managing it.

[HJ0]

Insurance companies own half the damn country, why you worried about their fiancial welfare so much.

Fines are a part of life, so is receivership.

But the wheels keep on turning, if not for one company then the one who takes it's place.

Don't you watch acurrent affair lol:D









HJ0 It's all so basic to me.Damn my wife makes great pizza's....Yummy:D

[Stuart]

Tell that to ?Carter Holt Harvey? 30+ years ago when they were manufacturing the then next best thing - asbestos.

[Markw]

Insurance companies own half the damn country, why you worried about their fiancial welfare so much.

Fines are a part of life, so is receivership.

But the wheels keep on turning, if not for one company then the one who takes it's place.

Don't you watch acurrent affair lol:D


HJO
I cant see your side of this discussion as valid from either the employee or the employer perpective. Maybe I'm looking through the wrong glasses and missing something. Do you actually own or manage a business that employs staff or are just saying this to bait me.

Firstly I don't give a damned about insurance companies profitability, personally I think the're the scum of the earth but in most cases they are unfortunately necessary. The organisation I work for is sufficiently large enough to be self insured but this doesnt eliminate underwriters etc.

Next your views of fines and receivership don't make sense, not from a business point of view. My company has a budget for next years projects in excess of $400M and about $2B over the next five years. Our protective clothing (trousers, shirts, overalls, jackets etc) expenditure for a year is about $1M. If we were fined $100K as a result of negligence or stupidity then there would be serious changes in the management even though $100K is not a significant amount compared to turnover. But that $100K still has to come out of profits and all business needs to profit to continue.

Fines are not part of business. They are an avoidable overhead that directly affects the company profit margin. Most fines are scaled, 1st offence small, next one larger, following one larger again. All coming out of profit. Can you afford it? Maybe you dont have shareholders/stakeholders/business owners.

Business need to profit to continue to employ staff, but your view is receivership is the norm. What a load of crap. You don't start a business with expectations of ending up bankrupt.

Lastly I watch either ACA or TT every night and swap between the most interesting stories. Generally companies go toes up through gross mis-management or through the dealings of others such as refusal to pay for goods or services etc. Gross mis-management like fines is avoidable, normally just takes a bit of common sense.

[Andy Mac]

I think the fact that Bunnings etc sell small pieces of MDF may be due to their reluctance to actually cut the stuff themselves?
I dislike the stuff personally but it seems unavoidable now. It gets used here at work a fair bit, especially by students for painting on. I cut it with a dust extractor on the saws, but refuse to sand it. We actaully did some carving with it as an intro class some years back, horrid stuff as you can imagine...the finish sanding was neccessary but we wont do that again.
I've heard that ply is much the same, even lining a shed, for instance, can cause health prolems due to off-gassing (I think thats the term?) from the formaldahyde glue.
The more I hear, the less trusting I become...it just seems that any given company will develop any number of products regardless of the potential risks, simply to make a profit. Like asbestos, DDT, cigarettes, any number of medicinal drugs, leaded petrol, the list goes on. Any concerns voiced by the average Joe is dismissed as "anecdotal" evidence at best, and its not untill there becomes a wide enough outcry (read profit line ramifications) that the Government is reluctantly involved (given some of these companies are powerful lobbyists), wades in and slaps a few wrists. I'm waiting for a couple, like mobile phones and microwave ovens, and even hair treatments (dye, conditioners etc), but maybe I'm just paranoid now!:rolleyes:

Cheers,

[silentC]

I picked up some MDF doorstop from Mitre 5 the other day. Only had the little car so I asked the guy if he was happy to cut it for me. He looked at me a bit odd. I said "what, are you allowed to cut this stuff?" He says "yeah, no problem". I had expected him to say "no" and let me do it myself. He seemed to be completely unware that there was any issue about cutting the stuff. No mask, just cut it in half on the saw and handed it to me.

[HJ0]

HJO
I cant see your side of this discussion as valid from either the employee or the employer perpective. Maybe I'm looking through the wrong glasses and missing something. Do you actually own or manage a business that employs staff or are just saying this to bait me.

Firstly I don't give a damned about insurance companies profitability, personally I think the're the scum of the earth but in most cases they are unfortunately necessary. The organisation I work for is sufficiently large enough to be self insured but this doesnt eliminate underwriters etc.

Next your views of fines and receivership don't make sense, not from a business point of view. My company has a budget for next years projects in excess of $400M and about $2B over the next five years. Our protective clothing (trousers, shirts, overalls, jackets etc) expenditure for a year is about $1M. If we were fined $100K as a result of negligence or stupidity then there would be serious changes in the management even though $100K is not a significant amount compared to turnover. But that $100K still has to come out of profits and all business needs to profit to continue.

Fines are not part of business. They are an avoidable overhead that directly affects the company profit margin. Most fines are scaled, 1st offence small, next one larger, following one larger again. All coming out of profit. Can you afford it? Maybe you dont have shareholders/stakeholders/business owners.

Business need to profit to continue to employ staff, but your view is receivership is the norm. What a load of crap. You don't start a business with expectations of ending up bankrupt.

Lastly I watch either ACA or TT every night and swap between the most interesting stories. Generally companies go toes up through gross mis-management or through the dealings of others such as refusal to pay for goods or services etc. Gross mis-management like fines is avoidable, normally just takes a bit of common sense.
....................................................................

I'm not baiting you mr lol



Markw: I never said receivership was the norm, I said it was part of life like taxes/death/stupudity etc. If you call that crap then your views have been lost on me.

I can see your point and also that your a company man, who has possibly been brainwashed with large dollar figures.

You talk about common sense , because your furture has been riding on the back of a huge company which may never go bust.

You/investors can asess every risk known to man when starting/investing in a business, but the second you make a choice to start it you have already taken your first risk.

ie Nothing more than a sometimes heaverly financed gable at best, just because people are paid rewarding amounts of money, doesn't mean the risk asessement fairy will make it all rosie every time.

Stop talking as if business is a risk free proposition, which can be kept under strict controls at all times. Maybe your position on the ladder has shelted you from lifes reality so long, you now think every angle can always be kept under control.

A matter that gives me great pleasure, is knowing that no matter how large/rich/powerful/intelligent or risk savvy a person or company is or becomes.
The hand of fate will always have the final say.

When the richest man in australia goes to jail belly up, I know i'm doing real well in life.;) And please don't say he had bad risk management skills lol.:rolleyes:


Having experienced both investing and insurance end results for myself. Also from a customers point of view. I have no hate for anyone, be they rich or poor.

I do think this thread has been lost in a finacial slurry. And the more serious issue of a person who is ill, should be held a lot higher up than it is at present.... Hope you all agree.



HJ0 Hope your friend gets well soon:) ;)Now i'm off to the shed for some light hearted ww lol:eek: :D

[HJ0]

I picked up some MDF doorstop from Mitre 5 the other day. Only had the little car so I asked the guy if he was happy to cut it for me. He looked at me a bit odd. I said "what, are you allowed to cut this stuff?" He says "yeah, no problem". I had expected him to say "no" and let me do it myself. He seemed to be completely unware that there was any issue about cutting the stuff. No mask, just cut it in half on the saw and handed it to me.


...........................................................

Thanks Silentc:)

Think you just saved me from being called a liar lol.

Go Bunnings and about 3 other great places, I know of who cut mdf.

No I don't own any of them, I'm just a lowly wwer lol:cool: :D


HJ0 ATT: I do not advocate not wearing safety glasses/dust masks or any other satefy gear required for a safe working enviroment... wonder how many of you have contacted bunnings over this issue? be honest lol:D

[scooter]

Tell that to ?Carter Holt Harvey? 30+ years ago when they were manufacturing the then next best thing - asbestos.

Think you mean James Hardie, Stu ?


wonder how many of you have contacted bunnings over this issue? be honest

HJO, read post #25.


Cheers.............Sean

[Stuart]

...........................................................

Thanks Silentc:)

Think you just saved me from being called a liar lol.

Go Bunnings and about 3 other great places, I know of who cut mdf.

No I don't own any of them, I'm just a lowly wwer lol:cool: :D


HJ0 ATT: I do not advocate not wearing safety glasses/dust masks or any other satefy gear required for a safe working enviroment... wonder how many of you have contacted bunnings over this issue? be honest lol:D

I find that information does that some time to filter from one store to the next, and it may be that it is an advisement that each Bunnings manager can choose, but I doubt that. I'm pretty sure Mitre 10s don't have the same restrictions on cutting MDF that Bunnings are meant to (yet).

As to HJ0's little bait about safety glasses etc, I was getting some untreated pine cut recently (too hard to transport 3.2m lengths!), and watched the guy finish off his current job of cutting treated pine without respiratory protection. When I gave him my job, he dutifully donned a dust mask and did the cuts. When I asked why he cared about protecting himself from untreated pine dust, and not from treated pine dust, he just shrugged - "depends if I can be bothered putting on the mask".

I felt like an actor from one of those biohazard movies about Ebola, where the crack response team moves into the potentially infected hospital with suits and full face helmets, portable air supply etc. and meets a doctor walking the other way with nothing. They stop and look at each other, and the doctor say - "well one of us is about to feel really stupid"

[Stuart]

Think you mean James Hardie, Stu ?

Cheers.............Sean

Probably! It's Carter Holt Harvey in NZ that supplies it- got the names / countries mixed up :D

[HJ0]

Ok please let me make this my last reply on this safety issue, My ww is suffering.:eek:

I can honestly say that in all the years, I have had wood of any kind /mdf/treated pine etc cut. The person doing the cutting has used their saftey glasses/shield/dust mask would be 5% of the time at best. Not counting even having or turning on a dust extractor.

Just the other day a young worker cut me some timber with a radial arm saw(not at bunnings). the closest safety anything did not exist... maybe they were all still in the wrapper hidden under the bosses desk so no dust could get on it .


HJ0 I'm Not baiting anyone, just giving my own views.:rolleyes:

[Markw]

....................................................................

I'm not baiting you mr lol



Markw: I never said receivership was the norm, I said it was part of life like taxes/death/stupudity etc. If you call that crap then your views have been lost on me.

I can see your point and also that your a company man, who has possibly been brainwashed with large dollar figures.

You talk about common sense , because your furture has been riding on the back of a huge company which may never go bust.

You/investors can asess every risk known to man when starting/investing in a business, but the second you make a choice to start it you have already taken your first risk.

ie Nothing more than a sometimes heaverly financed gable at best, just because people are paid rewarding amounts of money, doesn't mean the risk asessement fairy will make it all rosie every time.

Stop talking as if business is a risk free proposition, which can be kept under strict controls at all times. Maybe your position on the ladder has shelted you from lifes reality so long, you now think every angle can always be kept under control.

A matter that gives me great pleasure, is knowing that no matter how large/rich/powerful/intelligent or risk savvy a person or company is or becomes.
The hand of fate will always have the final say.

When the richest man in australia goes to jail belly up, I know i'm doing real well in life.;) And please don't say he had bad risk management skills lol.:rolleyes:


Having experienced both investing and insurance end results for myself. Also from a customers point of view. I have no hate for anyone, be they rich or poor.

I do think this thread has been lost in a finacial slurry. And the more serious issue of a person who is ill, should be held a lot higher up than it is at present.... Hope you all agree.



HJ0 Hope your friend gets well soon:) ;)Now i'm off to the shed for some light hearted ww lol:eek: :D

But first I shall have my right of reply.

LOL = Laugh out loud, but I haven't found anythng remotely funny in this thread?

I reject your assurtion that I am a "company man" and "brainwashed" for whatever reason and find this somewhat insulting. You do not know me personally but to set this issue straight I'm employed as an engineer for the purpose of sourcing materials and equipment. I neather side with management nor the rank and file, but act as a consultant to provide objective opinions and advice to either "side". The knowledge our budgeting figures is available and often told to all employees so that we all have a knowledge of the corporate direction.

You imply that common sense can only be used in large companies that can afford it. By your own assertion you don't come from a company where this is apparent or you would realise that common sense doesnt cost anything.

I have no interest in financial risk. Shares and the like are just legitimised gambling and to most investors just a way to make money. The risks I consider are those where injury or death result from negligence or lack of risk management. As to my position in life being sheltered, what ####. I started my employment in a trade. I've been there. I know how dangerous a working life is and I've seen my fair share of accidents. I work to prevent these from happening while your attitude would seem to be so what accidents happen. Maybe you need re-education on how industry now views injury and loss of life. Most of us view accidents as unacceptable.

If your or your company cant achieve your goal without subjecting your employees to a risk of injury or death then get out of the way and let somebody else do the work. This is what safe work methods do and they are required by law (OHS Regulation 2000). I employ Contractors at times and if they don't have a safe method of work then they wont get a start.

Further I find people who seem to take pleasure from the misfortunes of others even if they are the "richest man" objectionable. Unless you have been personally wronged why would you take pleasure in this.

Lastly as to my thoughts on Insurance Companies, it is the company as an entity, not the people who staff it. Any company IMO that profits from the injuries of workers and the fears of the employers is contemptible.

Well I hope you have a nice time in your shed

[inferno6688]

my local bunnings have no problems with cutting MDF for me. though there cuttig area is outside, and they they a Jet DC.

I do remember years ago though, bunnings refused to cut treated pine for me. they just gave me a hand saw and told me to go do it outside.

[HJ0]

"Business need to profit to continue to employ staff, but your view is receivership is the norm. What a load of crap. You don't start a business with expectations of ending up bankrupt."
MARKW The great lol

Markw: Your opinion on what I say is the above,so if you have taken insult so have I LOL....although you miss quoted me.

You have no concept of my views, but seem to be expecting me to except yours.

Don't call what I say CRAP. When it's you who is having trouble excepting another point of view...your don't know me either.

PS You know what your talking about, but you are far from knowing it all like most people who think they do.


Now I'm man enough to call it quits, unless you must have you almighty right of reply. In which case I will repectfully decline lol.


HJ0 Some muthers do have em:rolleyes: ;)

[HJ0]

my local bunnings have no problems with cutting MDF for me. though there cuttig area is outside, and they they a Jet DC.

I do remember years ago though, bunnings refused to cut treated pine for me. they just gave me a hand saw and told me to go do it outside.
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5 - 6 years back a place(nameless) refused to dress treated pine posts etc for their customers,They are out of business now. Maybe thats a good thing, least their employees could fine nice safe jobs base jumping at night blind folded...joke lol

First it's treated pine then mdf, next they will be asking your to go log ,mill and treat the stuff yourself...oh yeah mate while your at it, can you deliver it to your own house and send us back the receipt asap.


Some computer workers etc get brian tumours, some ww lose fingers with or without safety devices fitting.

Somethings just are. Despite all the laws or safety guidelines in place. welcome to the real world were no matter how hard you try even with no risk...%hit happens. But some people have massive trouble excepting reality from their pedestals....If it's not in the book of knowledge it's impossible.



HJ0 We live in beautiful world:D