box #2 - problem solutions invited

[tonysa]

here's my second box part completed.

i'm especially proud of this one as it came from rough sawn huon pine, resawn, jointed, thicknessed (GMC of course) and passed across the TS (untuned at this stage)

I'm finding its lacking in features and am hoping a couple of jarrah wedges across each mitred edge will give it the feature it requires. otherwise I'll make a new lid for it.

spot the router burn on the cutout to the lid grrrr
I forgot to rout a rebate for the base grrr again, fortunately a bit of flocking or felt will disguise that problem

talking of problems, when I built the first box and the wip one below i found :

problem #1 - my greatest problem was the mitres not matching 100%. whats the trick to covering mistakes in say huon pine. or whats the best method of ensuring the mitres are neat and match correctly.

problem #2 - i tend to round off the corners when sanding. looks pretty crook on the bottom corners. I think I'll have to use full sheets glued to some mdf on flat surface.

problem #3 - ensuring correct measurements, although my new TS and sled with stop block should fix this. I ended up sneaking up on the correct fit.

problem #4 - the belt sander (1/2 hp gmc) is too fast and takes too much off even with fine grade belt. can these things be slowed down ?

problem #5 - ROS, are they worth it or should I continue the hand sanding ?

i'm hoping as each box goes by i'll get better.
might even try a clock, they seem to be just a glorified box with routed edges.


cheer
tonysa

[zenwood]

Very nice; nothing wrong with an honest, well made box. Features are easily overdone, IMHO.

What TS did you end up getting?

In response to your questions:
1. Nothing wrong with those mitres as far as I can see. You may be interested in this post, for future reference: http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showpost.php?p=317171&postcount=13

I try to get them as perfect as possible before glue up using a donkey's ear shooting board, in conjunction with either a #4 smoothing plane or a LA jack: http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=20096

2. I never sand, for just that reason. Stick with planes (for flat surfaces anyway).

3. As you say, sneak up, or use stop blocks and other standardised processes.

4 & 5. Can't comment: don't have either of these tools. No doubt a linisher of some sort would give you more control: http://www.timbecon.com.au/products/sanding-machines-387_0.aspx

[RufflyRustic]

Hi Tony,

Beautiful box! Love the elegance in it's simplicity - it really grabs me:)

Mitres - Practise, fine tune your tools - and as you said, sneak up on it - Mitres would have to be one of my outstanding problem areas :rolleyes:

Sanding - I don't use any mechanical sanding, so find that after getting the surface flat, working through the grits of sand paper very helpful - slow, but worth it. If the fine sanding is taking off too much, then maybe by hand is needed still?

Congrats!
Cheers
Wendy

[banksiaman]

TonySA,

Mitres look good to me also.
Think I might have replied about sanding before.
I use a piece of mdf or ply that is flat, and stick sheets of sandpaper to it then you can run a side of a box on it with no rounding (the reason I went this way). If the box is too big for one sheet, go two mounted carefully side by side on the one bit of MDF so there is no raised paper. A leave a slight gap to make sure.
Make sure you get decent paper, this makes all the difference. I got some good stuff from Bunnings a while ago. Pretty sure it was Nortons, and white "no clog"??? - I would have to check tonight. Bunnings in Campelltown didn't have any last time I went :mad:
To those who would use planes, My boxes are done with "interesting bits of wood" (read really cranky grain) and while a scraper handled it, using a sharp high angle plane still managed odd bits of tearout - decent sandpaper laughs at cranky timber. I would use a plane & scraper on larger pieces, but small boxes are too fiddly for planes :eek: IMHO

If you wanted to go through the grades, there is no reason not to have one board say 240, another 400 and so on, and with decent paper it is quite quick.

Good Luck,

Chris

[AlexS]

Nice box, Tonsya. Mitres are really hard to get right, and even if you do, they can upen up because of differential expansion if the walls are too thick.
For a box that size, scraping and hand sanding are the go. I prefer to use a sanding block - MDF with cork faces. Don't quite see how you are rounding corners, but if you are, putting sheets on a board would be fine. you should also try doing most sanding befor cutting to size. Belt sanders are for removing lots of timber, not really good for finishing jobs. ROSs are good for large surfaces, but not for little jobs.

The box does look a little plain, but doesn't need much to bring it up. Perhaps contrasting slipfeathers in the mitres (IMHO mitres need these or splines or keys anyway) and/or a thin inlaid stripe in the lid. Other than that, looks fine.

[dazzler]

What about trimming the edges with some jarrah or myrtle.

5mm strips rebated into the edges and sanded flush would look cool and outline the huon pine.

I am going to geeveston where all the good myrtle is grown tommorrow so if you needed a small bit I could grab it and send it up. PM if u like.

And they will cover the mitres!. whats the box dimensions?

dazzler

[Wardy]

Yes Tonysa, I agree you should be very proud of yourself especially starting from ruff sawn to the finished product.Huon Pine is such a good timber.I think the Jarrah mitres would look good as a contrast.Maybe even some inlay banding around the bottom.Whatever you decide I'd say just keep it simple so you don't detract from the box itself. Great effort.
Keep up the good work. Cheers Wardy

[KRH]

Hi

I don't think you should be dissapointed with that effort. It looks like a nice box.

With regard to mitred sides. Just be very exact in stting up your saw and fence. I generally run quite a few test pieces through before I make the final cuts in the box material. Even 0.5 degree out is not good enough. But it dosen't take much to saw a few test cuts to get it right. If you need to err, then for a 45deg mitre cut, make it on the lower side (eg less than 45 deg.).

Regards

[tonysa]

interesting replies - thanks
inlay or rebated edge sounds interesting
my skills may not be up to scratch yet so some practise is in order first.

i do like working with huon pine, smells great and easy to work (except its softness can mean problems) Then again i haven't had any real experince with different woods, just jarrah and some smaller pieces of different woods for turning. The WW Show might fix that.

all good suggestions that i'll have fun trying this weekend

for the vertical mitre edge problems i can use zen's link using the rounded object trick, but the top face mitre joints are my main concern. consensus seems to be accuracy

how many teeth on a 10" blade should i be using for fine detail work, so far i've used the el cheapo thrown in with the saw. it'll have to be a combination blade for now. any suggestions.

thanks for the suggestions
cheers
TonySA