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Tiger
24th June 2006, 09:52 PM
I guess a chainsaw is indispensable to woodturners. I am having a little trouble cutting trunks into slabs. As I only have a small bandsaw, I am reliant on the chainsaw to help make blanks out of tree trunks, so I was wondering how others do this. My chainsaw is a little blunt. I'ml looking at the geometry of the cutting teeth, which part actually does the cutting, is it the tip or the side of the tooth as both parts are sharpened?
Any advice welcome.

Ianab
24th June 2006, 10:04 PM
hi Tiger

I assume you have a file a sharpening guide? (get one if you dont)

The point of the tooth is the important part, after that the side and top plates both have to have a cutting edge as they both have to cut through the wood. But the most wear will be on the tip of the tooth, if you keep that sharp the rest of the tooth should file back to a good edge.
Common problem is not sharpening the tip back to clean chrome, if you dont get a perfect edge there it will go blunt again real quick.
Also you need to file down the rakers between the teeth as the cutter is worn / filed down. The raker needs to be about 25 thou below the top of the cutter. You can get a gauge to measure that too.

Cheers

Ian

RETIRED
24th June 2006, 10:06 PM
Tip goes into timber, side keeps the cut clear and does aid in cutting but both must be sharp.

You have to get the right file that fits the gullet perfectly for sharpening.

Jigs are available from chain suppliers that make the job easier.

RETIRED
24th June 2006, 10:07 PM
Beat me Ian.;)

Tiger
24th June 2006, 10:13 PM
Thanks, Ian and . I've noticed that a couple of teeth are broken, should I be concerned about that?

Also, how do you cut your trunks into useful slabs safely?

soundman
24th June 2006, 10:29 PM
It is bothe the top and the side that cut, the top does most of the work.

the best thing I have found is the stihl hand sharpening jig. It a little tin plate thingy that clamps to the file & has reference marks on it for angle.

It sets the file at the correct depth in the tooth and the reference marks help quite a lot with the sharpening angle.

in the past it was recommended to sharpen with the cross angle and a tilt angle to the file.
These days most of the books just recommend the cross angle & flat across the top of the blade.

I used to sharpen free hand & thaught I was prety good but the tin jig is now what I use.

you must get a differnet one for each file size.

It is much safer too as the likely hood of the file comming out of the tooth is much less.

I recommend sharpening with leather gloves at leats on the file hand after having the file slip out and opening up the back of my hand on one of the prevoiously sharpened teeth. do you know what tendons & knuckle bones look like:(

Oh and work in a vice, metal vice with safe jaws, makes life soo much easier and safer

cheers

RETIRED
24th June 2006, 10:34 PM
Get a new chain. Take the old one as sample.

This is for the first cut if you are slabbing. I generally lie the log down on heavy bearers and use timber to chock the log securely. Sometimes I screw a brace from the end to a bearer to really make sure.

Cut slab off first side and then roll onto flat side on bearers and away you go.

Do not sit the log on the ground or let the saw hit the dirt. They hate it.

For bowl blanks. Same as first steps above then just rip down a fraction off the heart (easier said than done) and then another cut on the other side of the heart. I generally leave about 3-4 inches at the end and then cut through last so that the log stays balanced.

cedar n silky
24th June 2006, 10:36 PM
Thanks, Ian and . I've noticed that a couple of teeth are broken, should I be concerned about that?

Also, how do you cut your trunks into useful slabs safely?

Sounds like your chain is RS! Take it to the saw shop and spend some $$ on it. New chain(only about $20 or so), and matching file and file guide (ask them how to sharpen it) and get them to check out your bar and sprocket . Might be RS as well. No point putting a new chain on a buggered bar and sprocket and any other combination either!

I just this arvo cut up some wood for bowl blanks with the chain saw. If you have a reasonable log (in length) I tend to rip the log down the guts length ways first(don't have to hang on to little bits then) (following any already visible crack in the end grain) (this is where the log will naturally want to split anyway) Then you have 2 halves. Then just dock them to Bowl size (about the same as the width)
Then you can "rough round them by "docking the corners" before you put them on the lathe for turning. I "rough round" them on my bandsaw in preference, but a chainsaw works if you dont have a good bandsaw.:D

Barry_White
24th June 2006, 11:31 PM
The best chainsaw jig is the Oregon one as shown in the pic. It will take all size files and fit all chainsaws. It clamps on to the bar and is very accurate and very easy to use. The beauty of this jig is that it clamps the chain as well as the bar and will set every tooth exactly the same.

This jig has worn out three chainsaws and probably about 40 files.

I have used chains with up to 3 to 4 teeth missing and used it in yellow box which is very hard. I have worn chains down until there is only about 2 to 3 mm of tooth left and that's when they start to break off and thats the time to get a new chain

I usually buy two chains and a sprocket at a time and use the chains alternativley on the same sprocket.

Hickory
25th June 2006, 09:37 AM
Best bet is to find a good sharpener guy. Locally there is a shop where they service Lawn care guys and tree trimmers. etc. I drop off my blades after an adventure of cutting firewood, $5 (USD) and the chain is sharp and ready for the next outing. I tried to use files and sharpening guides but my best efforts only helped a little. sure I tune up a tooth or so whilst at the job but it is well worth the few bucks to have a pro do the job. I bet there is a fellow in your area, just have to find him.

When I as young and broke all the time, I used to try to do it all myself and save every penny that was so hard to acquire. but now that I am settled in my ways, I find that it often is best to find a pro to do your fixin'... Keep the fun stuff to yourself to enjoy.

My personal slant on the task. BTW I'm still broke but I enjoy it more.

Cliff Rogers
25th June 2006, 12:49 PM
I have 5 chains for my small saw.
I usually give the saw shapener 4 at a time BUT....
One of the workers there bought the boss out so the last time I was there it cost $25/chain to sharpen.... I won't be going back. :eek:

You can shear a sheep many times, you can only skin it once. :cool:

Bodgy
25th June 2006, 12:58 PM
Tiges, just get your local guy to sharpen, its much easier and low $$. I had some teeth missing (parallel universe rampant) and asked the guy to fit new chain. He ignored me, replaced some links and sharpened the rest $20 odd.

What a legend.

PHD1
25th June 2006, 01:02 PM
HI all,

I dont think any1 has said anything about balance yet. Most people r beter at sharpening 1 side beter then the other. I always try to make the same amout of passes on every tooth. A lot of times if u hit something hard it will only damage 1 side, but it is good to shapen both 4 balance. If not over time the saw will cut to the left or right, bind, and not cut well at all. There r chains out there that have a mark on then that will help u holf the angle. 1 more thing, dont just file the top of the tooth. That might b were it is worn, but work the whole tooth all the way down, so u dont loose the hook in the tooth.

Barry_White
25th June 2006, 03:31 PM
HI all,

I dont think any1 has said anything about balance yet. Most people r beter at sharpening 1 side beter then the other. I always try to make the same amout of passes on every tooth. A lot of times if u hit something hard it will only damage 1 side, but it is good to shapen both 4 balance. If not over time the saw will cut to the left or right, bind, and not cut well at all. There r chains out there that have a mark on then that will help u holf the angle. 1 more thing, dont just file the top of the tooth. That might b were it is worn, but work the whole tooth all the way down, so u dont loose the hook in the tooth.

That is why you should use a good jig like the Oregon. I can sharpen a chain in 10 minutes using the jig that I posted earlier.

In fact it can take longer to remove and replace a chain and set the tension which can take 2 to 3 adjustments to get it right where as if the chain is sharpened on the saw you will probably only have to keep adjusting the chain when it is new until all the stretch has gone out of it and like Soundman says you need to clamp the bar in an engineers vice when sharpening the chain.

Once you get profiecient at using the jig as I said it becomes quicker. When a chain is half worn I would take it to a chainsaw shop and have the chain trued up on an electric bench jig. My brother-in-law and I share an Oregon 240volt electric bench jig.

If you really want a chainsaw to run well find a Neways distributor and get some of their Roil Engine Conditioner and soak your chains in it as well as putting it in the bar oil and the chain will run 50% cooler and eliminate the wear on the chain and the bar. That is one fantastic product.

soundman
25th June 2006, 03:48 PM
I'm sorry this "professional sharpening" of chain saw blades in my opinion is something to be avoided.
I had one sharpened "professionaly" once, it came back a mess with so much material take off, you would only get 2 or 3 sharpens this way. I was managing better free hand.

it was after that That I looked at jigs.

now if you use a jig and you work in a vice and you sharpen after each tank of fuel you should have no problem.
the biggest mistake with a chain saw is letting it get blunt at all.

I sharpen after each tank of fuel and then probably 2 or three strokes on each tooth, always the same number on each tooth.

my saws cut clean and straight and I get maximum life out of my chains.

I have spoken to several seasoned chainsaw users including tree loppers and all agree do not let the chain get blunt.

its when you have to scrub away at the chain (because youve let it get blunt) that you do the damage as far as shape & ballance is concerned.
it is reasonably easy to get two good straight accurate strokes on a tooth.

it helps to have the saw at the correct height the top of the chain should be the height of your elbow, turn the saw arround in the vice or walk arround the other side to sharpen the other side.

I bet I can sharpen an 18" bar faster than you can change a chain, & I'm no genius.

cheers

Barry_White
25th June 2006, 04:01 PM
I'm sorry this "professional sharpening" of chain saw blades in my opinion is something to be avoided.
I had one sharpened "professionaly" once, it came back a mess with so much material take off, you would only get 2 or 3 sharpens this way. I was managing better free hand.

it was after that That I looked at jigs.

now if you use a jig and you work in a vice and you sharpen after each tank of fuel you should have no problem.
the biggest mistake with a chain saw is letting it get blunt at all.

I sharpen after each tank of fuel and then probably 2 or three strokes on each tooth, always the same number on each tooth.

my saws cut clean and straight and I get maximum life out of my chains.

I have spoken to several seasoned chainsaw users including tree loppers and all agree do not let the chain get blunt.

its when you have to scrub away at the chain (because youve let it get blunt) that you do the damage as far as shape & ballance is concerned.
it is reasonably easy to get two good straight accurate strokes on a tooth.

it helps to have the saw at the correct height the top of the chain should be the height of your elbow, turn the saw arround in the vice or walk arround the other side to sharpen the other side.

I bet I can sharpen an 18" bar faster than you can change a chain, & I'm no genius.

cheers

I'll second everything Soundman has said.

rsser
25th June 2006, 05:59 PM
Re 's advice on how to deal with the log, do a google on, from memory, Bill Gumbine (or Grumbine?) - he has a US site with useful pics. (I've got the URL saved somewhere so PM me if you have no luck).

Re sharpening, to keep the cost low you can get a cheap plain file with simple guide from Bunnies. (File has to be the right diam tho) - check out what the teeth look like a new saw at Bunnies so you know what you're aiming for.

Your old teeth are dirty so it's easy to see when you try filing where you're cutting and what you missed. Adjust accordingly.

I do agree that it's worth taking the saw to a pro every now and again to get the teeth right. My guy charges $8.

Ecc
25th June 2006, 06:17 PM
This jig is as brilliant as others have said. Takes all the guess work out and every tooth is the same. I only do a couple of strokes with the file till its nice bright metal.

hughie
25th June 2006, 08:01 PM
This jig is as brilliant as others have said. Takes all the guess work out and every tooth is the same. I only do a couple of strokes with the file till its nice bright metal


Also at the Oregon site they used to have bulk chains made up. The more you buy the better the price. The price was very compared to a few places I priced 'em at here in Sydney

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1968121
dunno what the freight would be tho

hughie

scooter
25th June 2006, 10:28 PM
I have had good success using the Carlton File-O-Plate system, basically a hard steel plate that sits over each tooth & holds the file at the right depth on the tooth. Also use for setting depth guages. One of the better "simple guide" systems I reckon, pretty cheap too.

http://msni.pricegrabber.com/product_images/18109000-18109999/18109185_640.jpg
http://www.dartong.com.cn/index.files/tiglg2.gif

Not as foolproof as those Oregon / Stihl type jiggers tho'.


Cheers................Sean

Bluegum
26th June 2006, 10:19 AM
Good thread as I learned a few tips form this to keep my chain nice and sharp. Thanks to all.

rsser
26th June 2006, 10:38 AM
Ditto.

Don't forget to use a sharp file too ;-}

Tiger
26th June 2006, 12:12 PM
Thanks for all the advice, learnt a lot and have a better appreciation of what goes into chain sharpening. I did buy a file and guide and had a go at sharpening. I thought the chain was sharp and it cut better, however it seemed to become blunt fairly quickly. I also noticed that the side of the tooth was a lot sharper than the top part, I really struggled with the top part of the tooth in getting it sharp. I am looking for a sharp point with no light (or other sign of dullness) on the top tooth but have trouble positioning the file there. The instructions say to keep the file flat as you file but I read somewhere that you need to tilt the file upwards slightly b/w 5 to 10 degrees so I'm a bit confused here :confused:. I also noticed that I rounded the teeth slightly (rounded as you look down onto the chainsaw), so obviously I moved the file in a rounded manner which I tried not to do.

I then went to the local mower shop. He said he would sharpen it for about $10, take a day but said he was too busy to show me how to do it, so I'm determined to do this myself and any advice appreciated. BTW he said that the 2 missing teeth weren't a huge problem.

Barry_White
26th June 2006, 12:26 PM
Thanks for all the advice, learnt a lot and have a better appreciation of what goes into chain sharpening. I did buy a file and guide and had a go at sharpening. I thought the chain was sharp and it cut better, however it seemed to become blunt fairly quickly. I also noticed that the side of the tooth was a lot sharper than the top part, I really struggled with the top part of the tooth in getting it sharp. I am looking for a sharp point with no light (or other sign of dullness) on the top tooth but have trouble positioning the file there. The instructions say to keep the file flat as you file but I read somewhere that you need to tilt the file upwards slightly b/w 5 to 10 degrees so I'm a bit confused here :confused:. I also noticed that I rounded the teeth slightly (rounded as you look down onto the chainsaw), so obviously I moved the file in a rounded manner which I tried not to do.

I then went to the local mower shop. He said he would sharpen it for about $10, take a day but said he was too busy to show me how to do it, so I'm determined to do this myself and any advice appreciated. BTW he said that the 2 missing teeth weren't a huge problem.

Tiger

I know here has been a lot of good advise given here BUT if you invested in an Oregon jig you wont believe how easy it is to sharpen chains.

What the jig does is makes you keep all the correct angles on the file without being concious of it. The jig is adjustable for the various types of chains. It also allows you to adjust the height of the file so that is filing the whole of the tooth surface.

The problem with free hand filing is that you tend to round over the top cutting edge of the tooth and the result is that it tends to blunten the tooth.

One other thing is if you are ripping the timber along the grain it maybe worth getting a ripping chain to do it.

Added Comment
Another thing is there are a variety of chain type depending on the type of timber you are cutting e.g. Green timber as a opposed to dry timber. The angles on the chains vary also, that is why the Oregon jig is so good you can adjust those angles and they stay fixed.

Ianab
26th June 2006, 05:20 PM
I also noticed that the side of the tooth was a lot sharper than the top part, I really struggled with the top part of the tooth in getting it sharp.

There is a knack to it.
What I find is that you actually have to keep pressure sideways on the file so it holds it back against the tooth and file until you are biting into clean chrome on the top of the tooth. If you leave that top edge even slightly rounded over the cutting edge wont be sharp chrome and will blunt fast.
This page shows how the chrome layer covers the top face and you need to file back untill you get a good edge there.
http://www.logosolusa.com/chainsawfiling.html

If the chain has had a hard time it will take a bit of filing to get the edge back again, but after that, sharpen as soon as the edge goes off, then you will only need to take a couple of strokes on each tooth. Thats another advantage of being able to file in the field, you can keep your chain cutting 100% instead of wearing it badly and needing to take a big chunk off with a grinder.

Another suggestion if the chain is in bad shape, get it sharpened by the sawshop and then you just need to keep it in that shape with your file.

Cheers

Ian

Tiger
27th June 2006, 10:02 AM
Thanks again guys.

Barry your jig is a good one buy I don't know if I can justify the cost as I only use the chainsaw for woodturning blanks.

Ianab, I like the site about the chrome, who would have thought there was that much to sharpening a chainsaw!

I also gather that as far as the woodturners are concerned there aren't any jigs etc to make cutting the trunks any easier. Just a matter of propping the trunk on bearers etc and cutting away.

Eastie
27th June 2006, 10:45 AM
If you don't want to fork out the extra $'s for the one barry suggested, get one of these kits for about $20. Sharpening is simple and extremely repeateable if you have a vice to hold the bar and a file guide as shown. The guide sets out both the file angle and pitch for the specified chain and holds the file so it sharpens to the correct depth every time - the same as more expensive jigs.

Many moons ago to earn pocket money I sharpened my dads chains on saturday mornings - on average between 15 to 20 chains a week all done with exactly the same jig as the one attached - the same sort of jig was used to sharpen the chain blades from the excavator processor head chains until we got a power disc grinder jig.

To help with ripping trunks through the centre the simplest method is with a chalked string line and patience.

China
27th June 2006, 10:30 PM
I owned and operated a sharpening shop for ten years, if your chain comes back with too much material removed find another shop, the machine I used, would if used properly make chain last longer than any hand filing unit, this machine cost $800.00 in 1985 and it's only use is for chainsaws, it takes about 1 scond to sharpen tooth