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rsser
26th Jun 2006, 03:25 PM
A forum member suggested that this was worth a thread by itself .... comes in two parts, courtesy of William Noble. It was posted on the Stubby newsgroup coming from a metalwork group originally.

Machines are Gods.

Ive noticed a distinct pattern among different personality types on this
newsgroup...<WBR>lets see if I can express this pattern.

Type 1. The Dreamers

This group is constantly talkign about machines, but seldom ever
actually get one. They talk, not look. They ponder the good and the bad,
discussing the various aspects of their gods, always dreaming about
the One True Machine, but no matter how many machines are offered to
them..they are always are talking something better, never content to
simply get the best they can Now..and learn to use it, while continuing
to look for something better, no matter that they can sell their current
one and get their dream machine next week, or next month or next
year..but missing out Today on learning and using. I cant figure out if
they want a machine handed to them on a silver platter, or they are
really interested in simply talking about machines and not actually
DOING something with a machine.

Type 2. Tire kickers.

Tire Kickers are a subgroup of the Dreamers. They actually get off
their asses and look for machines. But like the Dreamers..they seldom
actually get one. No matter how many usable machines are offered up to
them..they always have an excuse to not get one. Its too far, its too
dirty, its ugly. Its one thing to pass on a hammered piece of ####..but
to pass on a machine that takes a bit of effort to go and get, or whle
its capable of holding tolerence..its ugly and so forth..is buffonery.
You either want one, or you dont. If you dont..why do you bother going
and looking and then passing up a machine that you can actually DO
something on? Like the Dreamers..they forget that machines can be
bought and sold as a better one comes along but in the mean time..its a
user. Life is short. If you pass up a perfectly good machine..you may be
hit by a bus load of nuns before you torment yourself into actually
getting one. Its a bitch trying to turn cranks from a wheel chair or a
walker as Alzheimers makes you forget what you were trying to do.

If she is a bit homely, a little tired and a little old..but is a cheap
date and will #### your brains out..are you gonna pass it up?

Type 3. Cheapistanis.

Look yall..lets face it..not everyone can find machines for free or near
free. Location location location and effort effort effort MAY get you a
cheap machine. Maybe. Sometimes.
If you are unlucky enough to not live in the Rust Belt or be a Natural
Born Scrounger..a machine worth doing something with, is gonna cost you.
It may not be much..but it will cost something. The more pretty and
"accurate" it is..the more money its gonna cost. You have to decide if
pretty or "accurate" is more important than Usable when digging into
your piggy bank. Yes..a pretty and accurate machine is a joy to use. But
you pay for the pleasure. Either #### or get off the pot. Do you want a
machine or not? Some of you have been pissing and moaning about not
finding any machines, and the next day or the next week someone offers
up one..and yall dont even bother to get the details. Not unless its
free, or damned close to it.

Type 4. Beverly Hills Machinists.

This is the type of person that will not take anything other than the
best. Its got to be mint, dressed up like a fancy lady. I suspect this
type has a trophy wife or girlfriend, drives a fancy car and brags to
his buds about how hip slick and cool his toys are. But
unfortunately.<WBR>...its sad how little they actually use em. They spend
their time waxing and polishing and doing plastic surgery and making the
old bitch into a sweet young thing..no matter that its still an old lady
under all that bondo and paint. Long discussions on the most best trendy
paint, best place to have ways ground (and screech in dismay at the
cost).
There are loads of machine tools out there. But there hasnt been a US
manufactured manual machine made in at least 20yrs for the most
part..and they were used mostly in production..<WBR>run by men and women who
were tasked with running it to its maximum capacity, day in and day out.
Or hammered by newbies in schools and colleges. The 100 hr Instructors
machine that was hidden in a secret room in the neither regions at the
back of the campus and only used during alternate full moons are out
there. But they are damned rare.
Ive seen some "restored" machines done by hobbiests. They generally tend
to be like our aging lady..looks good from a distance..but when you get
up close..the old bitch is sagging, lumpy and looks like a worn out
painted whore. If they had simply been cleaned up and used..they would
at least have charector, and not have been a huge hole in the restorers
time, time best spent in actually using the beasty.
If you want a status symbol..buy a 'Vett and a big watch. Maybe grow a
pony tail and get a young chick to hang on your arm. A machine tool is
exactly that..a tool. You are either a machine user..or a machine
restorer..and most hobbiests dont have a clue how to actually rebuild
one..or know how much work there is in doing a decent job. Ever see an
invoice on a professionally rebuilt machine? Its not much less than a
new one. If your hobby is restoring machines..all the power to you. If
you want one to actually use...shrug.

Type 5. The Pragmatic Builder

The Pragmatic Builder is a interesting type. He wants to Built Stuff.
His goal is to make things, repair things, or make chips while he is
learning how to Build Stuff. His hobby is making Things. Machine tools,
while interesting, are simply a means to an end. He looks for the best
machine he can afford that will do the job. He learns his machines
weaknesses..<WBR>and learns to work around them as he Builds Stuff.
Cosmetics, while nice..are secondary to the use of each machine. As he
progresses and advances..he will be keeping an eye out for something
beter that may come along..but the machine itself is NOT his goal..but
simply a tool. He may tweak the machine a bit to make his task easier,
enable him to be more accurate, but his hobby is not rebuilding
machines, but to actually use them to Build Stuff.

Type 6. The High Priests

High Priests are a combination of Beverly Hills Machinists and Dreamers.
They argue about which machine is Da Best. The Machine is God..and all
machines besides their own gods are inferior. Old Gods are #### They
often dont have a clue why one god is better than another. And are often
wrong. Fundimentalist Machine Snobs. They often hear that one machine
is better than another..and once they get their minds made up..they will
buy even #### machines that look nice or have a certain name on it..no
matter how clapped out it may be. OOOH..I gotta have a Hardinge! And
they get one...one with more swayback than an elderly mare..but its A
Hardinge! Glory Be! Pass the tooling! And they often wonder why they
have chatter, or cant hold tolerances better than a couple thousands. It
cant be the machine..its a Hardinge!!!
Liz Taylor was a famous beauty in her prime. No matter how good her
make up artist made her look this morning..do you really want to bone
her today?
Do you want a machine that will do the job, or do you want a status
symbol to brag on? Yes..it may have some surface rust and maybe it wont
hold small tenths..but how often are you going to be needing small
tenths? Ill tell you. maybe a couple times in your life. Maybe. Unless
you are a Builder who makes watches or jet engines.
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rsser
26th Jun 2006, 03:26 PM
Type 7. The Optimist

The optimist is a fellow who got a machine, or wants a particular
machine, that is simply not capable of doing good work, even in the
hands of a master machinist, and wants to build chronographs with it.
These types generally..not always..but generally are newbies. They
inherited Grandpas clapped out piece of #### that was sitting in a barn
for the last 50 yrs because no one else wanted it..or they buy a
"project" lathe, 7x12 import or a AA 101 and expect it to hold small
tenths and know deep in their hearts that if they only ask the same
questions time and again..someone will pull a miracle out of their ass
and give them the Secret of the Ages that will transform a slug into a
Swiss tool room machine. The newbies can be forgiven, simply because
they are new. Unfortunately there are far too many adults who should
know better, are given the heads up..both in experience and in
information.<WBR>.that still believe that persistance will make fix all.
Optimism is marvelous. But you Optimists are way overdue for a reality
check. Some of you get one..and are so disappointed that they never
pursue the hobby any farther. Which is a damned shame.
Now if its your Goal to take a garden slug and see if you can make a
Swiss toolroom lathe out of it..then you are not an Optimist..but a
Builder and kudos to you. Be sure to put up a website and post your
results.

Type 8 The Collector

The collector is a fellow who collects machines. They may be missing
parts that havent been available for 70 yrs..but he saw it, he wanted
it..he dragged it home. He will have a bunch of busted machines waiting
for him to get A Roundtuit and his next of kin ultimately wind up
cursing his name as they try to get a scrapper to come get them and find
out that they have to pay to have them hauled off. The collector often
has a half hundred other unfinished projects around the shop as well,
all collecting dust. The Collector tends to be impulsive and has more
than a touch of ADD. He also tends to be depressed when in the shop..as
he looks around at all the unfinished stuff..and all the busted machines
taking up space. If you actually fix them..and do Stuff with them..then
you are a Pragmatic Builder. Bravo. We shall erect a shrine to you for
rescuing all those helpless classics from the melting pot. If you have
a bunch of busted machines collecting dust, you likely also have at
least a couple trucks/cars outback on blocks. You are also incapable of
throwing anything away. Bent cotter pins, rusty bolts, worn out
automotive belts.... Trust me..Im intimate with the symptoms.

A machine tool may be different things to different people. A God, a
tool, a status symbol or Hope. Just be honest with yourself as to who
and what you are.

Ive been fascinated by the lack of machine tool dealers posting machines
for sale. Only a few do..and then rarely. Ive asked many of them why
they dont offer up more machines, and universally.<WBR>.they have told me
that its a waste of time. Even when priced for scrap..decent machines
go unsold, or no one even bothers to contact them. Yet the thread pops
up every month or so, about the lack of decent machines.

Ive found or checked out Good machines. Ive either posted on them, or
have seen machines posted by others..and no one ever buys one.
"Its too far, or I cant see it, or it needs paint yada yada yada"

If you want a machine..several things to consider. How much Total are
you willing to spend? How much will shipping be? Ive seen machines
offerd dirt cheap, damned good machines, that even with the cost of
having it shipped to Bum#### PA, its still a hell of a lot cheaper than
finding one thats not clapped out localy..yet no one bothers to even
inquire.

The recent post by MarMachine on the bulk deal he is working out is a
perfectly good example. Id be surprised as hell if a single person here
even bothered to email him for details. God knows Ive slowed up on
posting decent machines on RCM..I think Ive had only one or 2 buyers
over the years from this newsgroup.

Wazzamatter with yall? A heads up. When I broker a machine tool to a
commercial customer..I get at least 10% right off the top. When I broker
a machine tool to RCM folks..I do it for free to keep the sellers price
down. And yet few even bother to contact the seller.
"If thy pride is sorely vexed when others disparage your offering, be
as lamb's wool is to cold rain and the Gore-tex of Odin's raiment
is to gull#### in the gale, for thy angst shall vex them not at
all. Yea, they shall scorn thee all the more. Rejoice in
sharing what you have to share without expectation of adoration,
knowing that sharing your treasure does not diminish your treasure
but enriches it."

- Onni 1:33
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RETIRED
26th Jun 2006, 07:21 PM
Hmmmm, I know a lot of people in all those categories. Sad, isn't it?;)

ticklingmedusa
27th Jun 2006, 04:57 PM
Interesting, I wonder what category I fit into now and where I'll evolve into as time passes?
tm

rsser
27th Jun 2006, 05:24 PM
Well I know where I've been but I'm not fessin up!

Auld Bassoon
27th Jun 2006, 06:53 PM
Good post Ern!

A poll on where we all think we might fit (or have been, or might end up...)?

ss_11000
27th Jun 2006, 08:08 PM
interesting....

A-Marks
28th Jun 2006, 02:32 PM
There's a guy like that who's lives down the road, the one with all the fruit the vet etc. spent 30k on machines 15 on a shed I honestly dont think he's has made a thing completly in the two years since he setup... But he's always got a lot to say about my homely efforts...




Great post
thanks