PDA

View Full Version : Segmented S&P grinders



TimberNut
7th July 2006, 03:01 PM
They're not finished yet, but I thought I'd post progress pics.
The time has come for my first attempt at segmented work, and my brother wants some S&P grinders so that's the job specs.
I've no idea if they'll work out, but I am learning on the way, so regardless, the efforts not wasted.

1. I have some New Guinea Rosewood that I thought might be interesting, and some beech for lighter coloured highlights, The Rosewood was about 80mm wide so thickness, then ripped to 2 x lengths of 35 wide (no table saw so had to use router). When assembled will give 70mm diam block - perfect for S&P grinders. Marked one side for consistency when gluing.

2. Trusty GMC Mitre Saw set to 22.5% (accuracy questionable!). Use some of the beech as stop, and on top to hold in place when 2nd cut is made. Then make first cut in rosewood, flip 180 deg and up to stop block for second cut. Have to let saw stop before lifting back up or cut piece comes flying out (the first couple hurt a bit, so decided patience was the order of the day. Get first beer of the evening, and rub temple where flying segment landed.
Back to work. So, that's first segment piece cut. Piece of cake I thought!

3. The first 12 done.

4. Stop cutting and assemble to see if theory is correct and angles are ok. Looking OK so far. Cut a few from beech also that will be used strategically to label each one. Piece of cake?? Hours and hours later am sooo sick of cutting segments! Time for another beer.

TimberNut
7th July 2006, 03:02 PM
5. Diagram of layout of beech pieces to figure out how I'm going to label the grinders. S on one, and P on the other.

6. Locate Melamine MDF for temp gluing table, and put greaseproof paper down to stop squeeze out sticking (thanks whoever it was on the forum that gave me that tip). Glued up 4 at a time, used rubber bands to hold in place. Not happy with slight gaps between segments.

7. Top ones are all rosewood. Bottom ones have Beech segments for lettering.

8. When dry, bring 2 halves together and swear at dog for gaps. Get a beer and swear some more.

TimberNut
7th July 2006, 03:05 PM
9. Beer induced inspiration!! Mount sanding disk in trusty Vicmarc chuck, and use new tool rest table I got from Vermec (been waiting for an excuse to use it anyway!)

10. Dry assemble 'adjusted' halves and voila!! accuracy plus!! (who said my GMC mitre saw wasn't accurate!) what gaps??!

11. Several nights later. Decided that 4 segments at a time was leaving too big a gap between pieces, so down to 2 at a time, wrapped in rubber bands. Earlier sanded halves now glued together to make the first few complete layers.

12. More layers, more halves,less single segments now.

13. Decided to glue a couple of layers together. Stupidly decide thicknesser might help flatten top edge of a completed layer. Set height, push layer in. Much grunching and grinding, Broken layer stuck in machine. Dumb idea. Blame dog for suggesting it. Blame beer for clouding judgement. Give up for the night.

Later - Sand tops to get flat on sanding disk (much better idea), then drilled hole though centre of each layer, and poked spring steel wire through to help stop slippage whilst tightening clamps. Once tight I removed the wire before it could get glued in. (As they will be S&P grinders I need a hole though the centre of the piece anyway ultimately).

Stand back to admire, and notice beech pieces in wrong spot! Call dog into shed. Swear at dog! Pry layers apart before glue sets, wipe glue off, and go inside for a beer. Back to shed - this time I scribble with artline on outer edge of beech segments. No excuses now! 3 pairs done.

...more to come.

ss_11000
7th July 2006, 04:40 PM
looking good, you've got a good idea there, hpe it works out......have fun

Tassie Boy
7th July 2006, 05:23 PM
They should "turn" out great...
Not sure if i would enjoy such tedious work..
I think i would have to call dog into shed as well!

dazzler
7th July 2006, 06:05 PM
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=26046&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1152245133 (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=26046&d=1152245133)

Holy clampmania batman:eek:

cedar n silky
7th July 2006, 06:54 PM
[quote=TimberNut]9. Beer induced inspiration!!

Going good there Timbernut.
I don't know if you know about those nylon cord picture frame clamps, but they are brilliant for clamping segmented work. I used to just use them for my picture framing courses, but I use them whenever I can cause they are so easy! They have nylon corner blocks, and one that has a tapered grove to lock the cord once youve tensioned it up! Might be better than rubber bands, particularly with bigger projects! Don't know how big a rubberband you can get!!
Cheers:)

TimberNut
10th July 2006, 01:02 PM
more pics.

I was getting bored with gluing and clamping etc, so thankfully I'm starting to see some progress here!!
I needed a way to ensure each layer was flat before gluing to the next layer, and was using the sanding disk for that. To ensure I didn't sand it flat, but on an angle, I decided to face off each one with a scraper first. To do this I put each in a scroll chuck.

In order to make it nice and quick to do each, I made a spacer block to sit in the chuck behind the layer piece, but not clamped or glued, just to hold out the piece with the face beyond the edge of the jaws so I could face it off. Then I could tighten the jaws against the edges of the layer piece.

It was very quick to swap each one. First face one side, reverse and do the other. This way both faces were parallel. Then I could just touch to the sanding disk to get nice and smooth before gluing.

pic 1. 1 x layer piece with spacer block in scroll chuck

pic 2. You can see the spacer isn't fixed to the layer piece.

pic 3. Uneven face ready for scraping.

pic 4. Salt grinder slowly coming together. You can see the pattern for the "S" emerging!!!

pic 5. Pepper grinder layers glued and about to be clamped. You can see wire in centre to locate the layers. This got removed with pliers once the layers were clamped.

Skew ChiDAMN!!
10th July 2006, 03:24 PM
That's using your noggin! I wouldn't have thought of using the lathe for facing off. Probably 'cos my seg work has always been larger, so I've been lapping on large sheets of s/paper on a flat surface... not the easiest way to get both faces parallel, believe me.

I'm gonna nick your idea and modify my cole jaws. Ta! :D

TimberNut
10th July 2006, 04:13 PM
Pic 1. I glued 2xpairs of 3 layers together separately. These will be the rotating tops for the grinders, and on the right, the pepper grinder is coming together.

Pic 2. Front - I turned the 2 x tops round, to see if all this effort would be worthwhile. They came out all right, so (rear) I glued 2 x extra layers top and bottom of each S&P grinder to get closer to the desired length.

Pic 3. Here are the 2 grinders when glue is dry, now ready for turning. The S & P lettering is clearly visible now! I am hoping they will be fairly subtle when they are finished. Time will tell....

They are still short of the desired length, and I plan to glue some solid timber onto the bases of them, to both build up the length, and provide a harder base as the rosewood is quite soft and might dent with regular use. I will match that with extra bits glued to the upper sections of the tops in the same timber. Hopefully this will make an interesting addition, and not look like a tacked-on afterthought. I guess we'll see.

TimberNut
10th July 2006, 04:18 PM
Hey Skewy,
I'm glad you liked the idea!! After all the time consuming cutting and gluing, this was actually the quickest part. The spacer block worked well too. It was turned then faced both sides itself, then just sitting inside the chuck is kept in place by the jaws being too close together to come out when the lathe is turned on. Made it real easy to swap layers in/out to face off.

The biggest benefit of using the lathe to face off, as you noticed, is being able to easily keep the faces parallel.

I use this idea with thin mdf sheets in the cole jaws sometimes as packers too.

Enjoy.

cedar n silky
10th July 2006, 09:52 PM
Are they shark jaws in the photo, on a vicmarc 120?
I've been conteplating those shark jaws! Any good?:D

TimberNut
11th July 2006, 10:10 AM
Cedar - yep. You got it - VM120 plus (45mm??) shark jaws.

These shark jaws are awesome, and used more than just about any others I own. I'm contemplating yet another VM120 purchase just so i can leave these jaws in all the time. I can highly recommend both chuck, and jaws, as long as your lathe is big enough as the chuck is a hefty bugger (but I think I recall you bought a Vicmarc lathe recently....)

They can be used in expansion mode if the recess is long enough, but they come into their own when clamped around the outside of a spigot. Well worth the $$$

QbnDusty
11th July 2006, 12:52 PM
To glue the segments of a ring together I use "Mitre Fix" from Bunnings, This is a two part superglue that gives a strong joint in 10 seconds and clamping not required. I hand lap one side of each completed ring and build the bowl on the lathe with PVA glue using the tail stock as a press. Once PVA is dry (about 30 Minutes is enough) I put a 25mm thick MDF disc faced with sandpaper in the tail stock, spin the lathe, wind it in and sand the other side of each ring ready for the next. A nice steel sanding disc with a morse taper would be better but was quoted $200 to have one made.
The above makes life much easier and assembly quicker.
Hope this helps in your venture into segmented turning which is a facinating occupation.

TimberNut
17th July 2006, 11:23 AM
Well, they are finally done!!

As per last post that had photos. I had to glue extra timber to the tops and bases for length,and durability as the rosewood is quite soft.

Pic 1. Rear - American Walnut blocks glued to main bodies.
Front - American Walnut added to top and bottom of the tops, and then some Bluegum blocks to be turned down to fit inside recess in grinders. These will ultimately not been seen.

Pic 2. The completed items.

Pic 3. Completed - another shot. Note, you can see the "S" and "P" on them. The lettering is quite subtle, Which is what I was hoping for, because the rosewood is quite striking.

All in all, I am quite happy with the result. Now hopefully my brother will like them. A lot of work for a free job!! (you gotta love family - they get all the best turned items for nothing) :D

ss_11000
17th July 2006, 01:05 PM
great work...

jmk89
17th July 2006, 01:09 PM
I love the grinders (although i would have had the handle/knob a little flatter).

My only problem is that for those of us of not quite so tender years might have trouble seeing the subtle S and P. Perhaps different metals for the screw-on part that holds it all together might help.

Skew ChiDAMN!!
17th July 2006, 06:41 PM
If your bro doesn't like 'em, I'm sure I can find some shelf space where they'll be appreciated. ;)

One way I've found to readily ID which is which without detracting from the wood is to use suitably coloured inserts. I like "Snowflake" corian for salt and "Salt'n'Pepper" corian (:rolleyes: ...'tis a dark grey with B&W flecks) for pepper. Either as a band inlaid just below the neck, or as a disk insert on top where the mechanism knob protrudes. Even the blindest ol' fossil can work out which is which without sneezing on his chips. :D