goblet question

[lubbing5cherubs]

Hi Can anyone help me out here. I have had several attempts at trying to turn inside the goblet and I can't get it to stay square. All of them are going off centre and one side is more hollowed then the other side. Any suggestions on correcting this. I am doing it between the centres then swapping to my nova chuck. It is still moving what am I doing wrong?
Bye
Toni

[Cliff Rogers]

Sounds like you are digging into the end grain too hard.

What timber are you using?

What tool are you using?

Are you drilling a dept/starter hole first?

[TTIT]

Toni - when you say you are turning it between centres first, I hope you don't mean you are turning down the stem as well!!! That would make the piece too flimsy to hollow out.:eek: When you start off turning it between centres, all you should do is rough the billet down to a round and cut a spigot on one end to suit your chuck's jaws. Remount the blank onto your chuck and shape the outside of your cup, then hollow the inside while it is still strong enough. Finish the inside and outside of the cup then start on the stem.:D
If you're already doing it this way - - - - I don't know what could be going wrong!!!:(:o:(:o

[Captain Chaos]

Toni,
When turning goblets, I do as TTIT recommends except that I turn out the interior first & sand / finish, then turn the outside to shape & then the stem, starting at the tailstock end & moving towards the chuck / headstock. This was how Raffan did it at a two day seminar which I attended a few years ago.
I'm not saying that it is right, or the only way to turn goblets, but it works for me, as opposed to some of my other turning efforts of late.:o:(
Regards,
Barry.

[rowie]

[quote=TTIT Finish the inside and outside of the cup then start on the stem.:D
If you're already doing it this way - - - - I don't know what could be going wrong!!!:(:o:(:o[/quote]as TTIT says, make sure u have turned/finished the inside/outside of the cup b4 turning down the stem;) .also, after u have 'chucked' the peice and made your first few cuts, u may need to retighten the chuck a bit more. after any big dig in & b4 u make your finishing cuts, u should recentre the peice in the chuck to make sure it is running true.
make sure you cut from the centre out to the rim, 0pposite to how you turn the inside of a bowl, and be careful when u get near the rim, this is where u will get most dig ins:mad: resharpen you roundnose & take very light cuts only

[lubbing5cherubs]

No I am not turning down the stem till last. I am shaping outside of the goblet then trying to hollow it. but we are having a few fights. I just can't get it to agree with me. What tools am I using...ummm not sure of name but I been using little like finger nail one just small. Or the small curved one that came in my kit. about 1/2inch not sure of what it is either. I don't think either of them are for bowls but at this stage I been using both for hollowing out my things. I got to spend the money on a bowl gouge yet
Toni

[TTIT]

Toni - I'm sure the experts could tell you how to hollow them out using a spindle gouge (the fingernail one) but I've never worked out how it's done:o . I just drill a pilot hole first and take the rest out with a toothpick cutter (narrow ended scraping tool). It's quick and easy :) and once I have the shape right, I 'shear scrape' the inside to clean up any ridges etc left by the toothpick cutter :D . I doubt that a bowl gouge will be of much use to you on goblets. :(

[reeves]

for goblets i usually turn the inside first, while the wood is strong and solid, then do the outside.

u will have troubles if yr blank is too long, i tend to make a 5 cm tenon and jam it in my shark jaws, helps make it hold straight well.

I cut the inside with a fine bowl gouge and finsih witha scraper, then do the outside and the spindle bit...

practice dont always make perfect but make sit harder to get worse...!'


cheeeeeeeers
john

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Toni, most of my turned work is goblets... you could say it's my specialty. :rolleyes: Not a deliberate choice, it's just what I seem to end up with if I start turning a blank without actually deciding what I'll turn first.

IMHO, the easiest way is this:
Mount the blank between centres, rough it into a cylinder and turn a spigot so it can be mounted in a chuck. Mount it in the chuck, bringing the tailstock back up for support. It should reseat in the same hole it made when roughing. Turn just the outside of the bowl closely to the final shape, but don't finish. Remove the tailstock and hollow out the inside of the bowl. Only hollow an 1" or so at a time, sanding as you go. This reduces the chances of it cracking or flexing. Once the bowl is hollowed properly give a final sand to both inside & outside, then apply your finish. Finish inside as well as you can, 'cos you can't come back to it later... Put a plug in the wooden mouth of the goblet (more on this later) so you can bring the tailstock back up for extra support. Start turning the stem, working from the bowl end and working back towards the chuck. Again, only work an inch or so at a time, so you have plenty of stock to reduce flexing. When you shape the foot, make sure the bottom of it is far enough away from the chuck that you can seperate easily. Sand/finish the stem. Seperate & take it inside for a bragging session! :)

The wooden plug... I usually use the offcut spigot from the previous goblet to make these, just turning a rebate around the edge so it fits into the goblet like a lid. It helps having access to a second lathe, so it can be sized to suit the current goblet without having to unchuck/remount pieces... but it's not really necessary.

In your case you'd have to turn the plug before even starting on the goblet, and the size of the plug will determine how big the mouth of the bowl will be. It means you'll have to work to plan when hollowing, making constant measurements so it all fits. After a while, you'll end up with a variety of different sized plugs, which makes things a lot easier. Mine are all sized in 2.5mm steps, so even if one doesn't fit exactly I can pack it out with paper scraps until it does.

As John said, the longer the blank the more difficult it is to turn. I really recommend that you stick with 6" high goblets or shorter... so, adding in the spigot and "scrap area" for seperating, your blanks shouldn't be any longer than 8" Any longer than that and you'll need to buy some specialised chuck jaws. Powergrips, sharktooth, or similar.

Seeing some of your previous work, I've every confidence you'll be posting pics of goblets soon. ;):D

[Cliff Rogers]

Good post skew BUT... you missed one detail.....

Remove the tailstock and hollow out the inside of the bowl. Only hollow an 1" or so at a time, sanding as you go. This reduces the chances of it cracking or flexing.

What tool/s do you use for the hollowing.

It is the bit the Toni is having a problem with.

[lubbing5cherubs]

Tommorrow after I finish school I will have another go at it. Hopefully I get better this time. What Tools do you use ....Skew chiDAMN?

Titt--You wrote: I just drill a pilot hole first and take the rest out with a toothpick cutter (narrow ended scraping tool).
which Tool is that?
Toni

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Actually Cliff, I hadn't forgotten at all. :rolleyes: But I dislike saying "use this tool for that job" as I find every turner has their own preferences and are more deft with some tool-types than others. So tend to I leave that choice up to them. :o

But to give Toni an idea, what I use depends on the form of the bowl. For a "flared" goblet that tapers out, sorta like a champagne flute, then I find a small bowl gouge does the job quite nicely and quickly.

However most of my goblets taper in to the lip, a bit like brandy snifters or sometimes a tulip shape. This makes bowl gouges pretty useless; I can't get 'em to the right angle for decent cutting and my walls tend to be thin enough that any catches mean instantaneous total and utter disaster. :eek: So, for them I use a home-made round nose scraper (from 12mm round stock) for hogging out the bulk of the wood and a home-made bull-nosed scraper (from 1cm x 8mm rectangular stock) for finishing the inside. Scraping does mean a bit more tear-out... at least, until you master shear-scraping... but a bit of sandpaper quickly cleans up the mess.

I've experimented with various other tools but keep coming back to using mainly those two. [shrug] I'll stress: this is an entirely personal preference, it's simply what works best for me.

Toni... do you want me to post a pic of my scrapers? It's easier than trying to explain what they look like and it doesn't take much to sharpen a normal scraper to the same profile... just an extra minute at the grinding wheel.

[lubbing5cherubs]

Toni... do you want me to post a pic of my scrapers? It's easier than trying to explain what they look like and it doesn't take much to sharpen a normal scraper to the same profile... just an extra minute at the grinding wheel. That would be great skew Thanks heaps
Toni

[rsser]

Yep, show me yours and I'll show you mine Skew ;-}

btw ... like your idea for supporting the tailstock end. Just tried it with a Vic myrtle goblet. How thin are you able to go with the stem?
(I hollowed most if it with the Munro, did the lip with a 'toothpick' and cleaned up with the Oland tool as a shear scraper).

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

OK. It'll have to wait until the weekend though, as the cameras on holidays at the mo.

Ern, as I'm sure you're aware, the timber dictates the final dimensions to a large degree and I very rarely turn a plain, straight stem. I don't know why, I just don't. [shrug] With my smaller pittosperum or myrtle goblets (<5" tall) I'll turn the stem down to around 6-7mm on average. The ogees may go down to 5mm, with 4mm at the narrowest parts of a bead. I'd say my equivalent sized redgum & coarser-grained goblets are generally a mm or two thicker.

Thinner is possible, I've turned smaller as an exercise and they do look lovely and delicate, but I prefer my pieces to last a bit longer than the first time someone "has a closer look." :rolleyes:

[rsser]

Well Toni you ain't the only one with problems :D

Below is a pic of my second attempt. Went too thin and sliced the 'bowl' off the stem. Pooh.

As you can see, I was aiming to be clever and had set up the stem to cut a captive ring.

Was leaving a wide base to give room for an evolving line. Just gave an opportunity for practice with a deep parting cut in the event - as they say, every silver lining has a cloud ;)

[lubbing5cherubs]

Hey Ern, That a lairy bit of equipment you have there Your turning is pretty good. Well at least you got that goblet hollowed out..LOL. I can't do that but my last one I did have a go at making them rings. I figured them out. I am in the process of doing that ot make a rattle for my new niece coming. So together we have a goblet..
Bye Toni

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

OK, the cameras back from hol's so I took some pix of the tools. Out of focus, of course (I'm a woodie, not a photographer) but they should give you an idea of what I use.

Pix 1 & 2 are the roundnose scraper I made from round stock for hollowing out quickly. The first one I made like this was simply from a large old screwdriver that had seen better days.

Pic 3 is the bullnosed scraper I do my final cuts inside the bowl with. As you can see, it's sorta shaped like a butter-knife, most of the cutting is done using the LH "corner." Well... where the corner would be if it had been left square, anyway. I sharpen the last 2" or so of the LH edge (the top edge in the pic.) Hmmm... I should've taken a pic of the other side to show what I mean. Oops. :o

Ern, you asked how thin I turn my stems? Well... pic 4 is my "junk" shelf just inside the door to the house, where things tend to be deposited as I come in from the cold. (I'm sure all turners have one. ;) ) The better items tend to be sold or given away quickly but I reckon these are fairly representative of my fiddles over the last month or two.

[rsser]

Thanks Skew.

Your junk shelf don't look too bad! Love the punky one top left.

[TTIT]

Just how much Pittosperum did you get Skew????;)

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

A 30' tree. :p

[ss_11000]

If anyone is interested http://marleyturned.com/id110.htm that is a link to a video on the internet ( dont have to downlaod it ) about turning goblets, its abvout 3 min long ( i think )

[Jack Plane]

Toni

Make sure that when you mount your piece in the Nova that it is dead square. When you start the lathe it should run dead smooth without any sign of wobble or vibration.

If there is any wobble at all when you start the lathe you will find that you will end up with one side of your goblet thicker than the other as you are really moving into the world of eccentric turning.