Modelshipwright?

[Wild Dingo]

In my present mood of wanting to share info around a bit...

mate I was wondering what info do you need to make a model? I mean do you absolutely have to have the offsets? Or will a lines drawing do?

heres a 40ft schooner designed in 1912 by one BB Crowninsheild called "Fame"

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/p07bdd65e1fa1a52a132bedbb86c1dcb9/fc04c05a.jpg

And the sailplan

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/p973e480ac53e75d28c4e83e4c6a07d22/fc04c05e.jpg

and the diagonals

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/pee131ff0f9992764b3be16a42ddaab49/fc04c042.jpg

and the lines

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/pa1392ae0ac65469093e9bb4e3d2cefb5/fc04c03d.jpg

I was wondering in the spirit of giving more information out if you would like them? I will sit down tonight and copy the offsets but only if you must have them and post a pic tomorrow for you... this will entail some serious squinting muttering cursing and pharting but for you I will do it!!... oh no worries thank me later okay! :D no seriously I have to do this for myself anyway as the plans have gone and other than that imagestation album I have only the drawings left (thanks to the bloke in the states who originally got them for me but only copied the drawings and not the offsets... from the Peabody museum whos ungratious ignorance to overseas enquiries I shall never forgive)

When I first got the plans a fair few years back I spent a few weeks creating some half models in that horrid balsa stuff (never ever ever again!!)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid70/pe5a1b11ad45d468f116a60be17d4a37a/fba1eaa5.jpg

The top one is this one Fame the bottom one is his 20ft Dark Harbor 12 1/2 design

Cheers!

[TK1]

Hi Dingo!

I've been a bit slack visiting here lately but with new computer and a bit more time now I'm back :) ...you didn't even know I'd gone away though, did you?

Anyway, nice to see a personalised message waiting for me!

What you have posted is definitely enough to build a model with. No need for offsets. Even if making all the frames, I just use the body plan to calculate the intermediate points. But, making all the frames when something is only a couple of feet long is bordering on insanity, so I usually use the sheer and body plan lines to make an internal structure of plywood. Then plank over it.

It's a loverly looking boat, and I do like your half models (damn fine result with balsa too, horrid stuff that it is). That top pic is all that's needed, the rest - materials, details of fittings, etc, can usually be gleaned form photos...ideally of an actual prototype, otherwise I use contemporary pics to make fittings appropriate ot the period.

So, if the offer is there for the plans, I'd gladly have them (actually getting a bit sick of making large 18th century warships, I prefer the fine lines of sailboats and the look of work and steam boats now, so once again good timing).

Happy to post progress pics here as I go - a "here's how to do it" and may even be tempted to send you the finished product....

PM me and I'll reply with my contact info.

Regards,
Darren

(Building models again for now as I can't decide on a full-size plan I like, at a size that will fit in the garage...can't see SWMBO letting me build a pearling lugger in the front yard :( :( )

[Wild Dingo]

See I knew if I shouted loud enough youd turn up! :D

So just the first pic is enough? no worries I will pm you shortly... with the actual boat its still sailing around Boston harbor I believe but unfortunately theres only a couple of photos of her around

And this is one taken from Rudder magazine... with BB at the helm circa around 1918

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/p88650b704f1221163b64631cb6c3d3c0/fc04c055.jpg

Buggar of it was that I once had a couple of pics of her taken by a friend over there... aahh well so much mud and mush now :(

[graemet]

Shane,
I'm making a model of a fantail launch at the moment, I have the equivalent of your first pic AND the offsets, but really all the offsets do for a model is make plotting the frame stations a little easier. Even then, when you loft from those offsets ( if you can call it lofting for a boat less than a metre long) you will probably find some of the plotted points not where they should be and you have to apply the Mk.1 eyeball to the result. The advent of the enlarging photocopier makes modelbuilding from a lines plan very simple.
For the fantail, I tabulated the offsets, reduced them to inches and decimals of an inch from feet, inches and eighths, converted to millimetres and then divided all by a factor to bring the model to the o/a length I wanted, drew the frame sections out on squared paper and photocopied it enought times for each frame. (Clear as mud???)
I might even get round to taking some pics when construction gets past the framing stage.
Cheers
Graeme.

[graemet]

Thought I'd post the framing pics anyway.

[TK1]

Hi Graemet,

Looks like you're off to a good start. Do you have a pic of what the finished product will look like - and will it be static or have a motor? I've seen some great scale fantail launches with accurate scale steam engines, but that's faaaar too much work for me!

Looking forwards to the progress pics and always good to see people building model boats. :D

Regards,
Darren

[Wild Dingo]

Shane,. Even then, when you loft from those offsets ( if you can call it lofting for a boat less than a metre long) you will probably find some of the plotted points not where they should be and you have to apply the Mk.1 eyeball to the result.

aaahhh yes the old Mk.1 eyeball trick I know it well :rolleyes:


The advent of the enlarging photocopier makes modelbuilding from a lines plan very simple.

aaahh yes the old enlarging photocopier... I know it not :(


For the fantail, I tabulated the offsets, reduced them to inches and decimals of an inch from feet, inches and eighths, converted to millimetres and then divided all by a factor to bring the model to the o/a length I wanted, drew the frame sections out on squared paper and photocopied it enought times for each frame. (Clear as mud???)

yer WHAT??? :eek: mmmm and here I was thinkin you spoke the same lingo as me too :(

Jolly nice wee framing there Graeme :cool:

heres a luggar I did a few years back of course I did finish it and did have it on the mantle and it was very nice indeed... then we had a flood and one youngster of mine the youngest in fact needed some "happy" time after loosing all his toys to the mud... so whilst I smiled and wiped a tear he hooted of down to the receeded creek and set sail... enjoyed himself mightily he did... until it was decided that there were pirates in them thar waters but like a good sailor he continued on through the mighty bombardments of his elder siblings canons through the drenching downpours from their narrowly missed bombing raids he sailed on... then with a mighty swipe from a hidden obsticle in the water (placed there no doubt by his cad of an elder brother whos jealousy of his wee brother bein made admiral of the fleet and him outlawed to pirate status knew no bounds) the garboards went and she started listing to port then with deadly accuracy the pirate wench lady Brie landed a set of canon blasts fair upon the decks bringing down the rigging and masts and with a hole right through her she slowly went to the bottom... :(

Admiral Joshy salvaged her but due to her balsa nature she was beyond repair or restoration... And the formidable Admiral Joshy awaits his next command :cool:

Tears were shed and wiped away as a suitable burial at sea (err creek) was arranged at sunset

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid71/p048c5a5e9aaeb9029e3e59a7bf51c50e/fb9ab5c0.jpg

I simply went the 1/2in to the foot route since pretty much all my plans were in feet inches and 1/8ths and I do likes a nice largish model ;)

[Wild Dingo]

oooh cripes near flamin forgot!!... YES INDEED!! Do post progress pics mate! :cool:

[floobyduster]

There's a brief article at http://www.cruisingworld.com/article.jsp?ID=35718&typeID=419&catID=0

Also a nice photo of her in full flight ... er sail on http://www.psc.edu/~deerfiel/Photos03/Chi03/ with the caption

Rig: Gaff Rigged Schooner
Flag: USA
Year Built: 1910 (Designed by B.B. Crowninsheild for his personal use), sank in 1995 with sails set for 6 days.
Length Overall: 40'6"

[graemet]

Hi Graemet,

Looks like you're off to a good start. Do you have a pic of what the finished product will look like - and will it be static or have a motor? I've seen some great scale fantail launches with accurate scale steam engines, but that's faaaar too much work for me!

Looking forwards to the progress pics and always good to see people building model boats. :D

Regards,
Darren
G'day Darren,
The original was built around 1900 in the USA and resurrected in 1963, steam powered, 17' long. Some time ago, as documented in the metalwork forum, I bought a cheap lathe to try and teach myself to machine metal as well as wood. My initial project is to build a single cylinder steam engine and so I needed a boat to mount it in. I have been a fan of fantail launches ever since I got hold of Weston Farmer's great book "From My Old Boat Shop". The one design in his book which has any plans attached does not have enough detail, even when blown up to double, so I tracked this one down in a Mechanix Illustrated article, where there is SFA construction detail but a full table of offsets and plans, elevations and station sections with the diagonals. I thought that, having built a full size boat from this sort of detail, a model should be a doddle! (sorry for the doggerel but I couldn't help meself). Since taking the pictures last night, I've realised I'll have to pull it apart a bit to build in a sheer clamp before I start to plank it up.
Shane, sorry for hijacking your thread, but we DO sort of talk the same lingo when it comes to boats. There's nothing quite like poreing over study plans or descriptions particularly in old books and magazines. I had about a dozen different sets before I settled on my David Payne design.
Cheers,
Graeme

[graemet]

Anyone interested in older boat designs will get a great dose of nostalge and humour from "From my old Boat Shop" by Weston Farmer. My copy came from Boat Books but I've seen it in a Council Library so it should still be available.
Cheers
Graeme

[ian]

aaahh yes the old enlarging photocopier... I know it not :(ah, but do you know the scanner / digital camera / home printer trick?

scan or take a photo of the plan (if using a camera make sure you're exactly perpendicular to the plan) paste the picture into a document, expand or shrink as required and print.

that's it

ian

[TK1]

Hi all,

A trick/check from the model buiders...

If you are going to use a photocopier or computer program to enlarge plans, a good idea is to draw a vertical and horizontal line on the original plans at a known lengther - I usually draw a few inches with 1/4 and 1/2 inch deliniations, and then when the plans are enlarged on a copier (or whatever), measure the new copy and ensure the deliniations are equally enlarged....a lot of copiers will distort the image either horizontally or vertically so will be slightly off in some dimensions.

I have seen this happen with some plans (enlarging or reducing) where one of the dimensions will come out wrong. Not often a problem when amking something 12" long, but I've heard of it happening when enlarging plans for full-size use...with unfortunate results dicovered in the bulding stages. :( :(

If you do use a copy servie to enlarge plans, find one that does architectural work and which has a digital platter...I use a company that does a lot of architectual work and hav enelarged plans 400% with no distortion (of course, the lines become quite thick so need to be redrawn, but at least they're right!).


I also have a computer program that can redimension plans...you plot perpendiculars, breadth and a couple of other points, and enter the original nd desired scale, and it enlarges the plan without increasing the pixel width of the lines. Might be able to share if I get the writer's permission!

Happy building,

Darren

[stevebaby]

Anyone interested in older boat designs will get a great dose of nostalge and humour from "From my old Boat Shop" by Weston Farmer. My copy came from Boat Books but I've seen it in a Council Library so it should still be available.
Cheers
GraemeGraeme,
If it's boat books you want,try Meadowbank TAFE Library.You can't borrow them unless you are enrolled,but you can copy any plans you find,and if you take a photocopy of a plan to TAFE's Printing Section they will enlarge it for you.They also have 10 years worth of "Woodenboat" magazine for perusal.The library is open 10-8 Mon-Thu,10-6 Fri. It's a great resource and it's free.:)

[stevebaby]

Hi all,

A trick/check from the model buiders...

If you are going to use a photocopier or computer program to enlarge plans, a good idea is to draw a vertical and horizontal line on the original plans at a known lengther - I usually draw a few inches with 1/4 and 1/2 inch deliniations, and then when the plans are enlarged on a copier (or whatever), measure the new copy and ensure the deliniations are equally enlarged....a lot of copiers will distort the image either horizontally or vertically so will be slightly off in some dimensions.

I have seen this happen with some plans (enlarging or reducing) where one of the dimensions will come out wrong. Not often a problem when amking something 12" long, but I've heard of it happening when enlarging plans for full-size use...with unfortunate results dicovered in the bulding stages. :( :(

If you do use a copy servie to enlarge plans, find one that does architectural work and which has a digital platter...I use a company that does a lot of architectual work and hav enelarged plans 400% with no distortion (of course, the lines become quite thick so need to be redrawn, but at least they're right!).


I also have a computer program that can redimension plans...you plot perpendiculars, breadth and a couple of other points, and enter the original nd desired scale, and it enlarges the plan without increasing the pixel width of the lines. Might be able to share if I get the writer's permission!

Happy building,

DarrenI've had a few problems with commercial copying services.They have refused to enlarge plans for me,citing copyright reasons.One of them even refused to copy something from one of "Dynamite" Payson's books despite the fact that he gives permission for copying in the book and instructions for enlarging the plans.Eventually they agreed to enlarge a photocopy of the plan...but not enlarge the actual plan from the book.

[TK1]

I've had a few problems with commercial copying services.They have refused to enlarge plans for me,citing copyright reasons.One of them even refused to copy something from one of "Dynamite" Payson's books despite the fact that he gives permission for copying in the book and instructions for enlarging the plans.Eventually they agreed to enlarge a photocopy of the plan...but not enlarge the actual plan from the book.

This can be a tricky area...comes up on the model ship forums a lot, as this is where we get many of our plans. Quite a complex issue, hence copy shops will often just not do it. My understanding is that you can copy plans from a book for personal use (or a copy of other plans as a working or backup copy) as long as they're not used for commercial gain (to resell or make a model to sell - which however does happen).

I've never had any trouble getting plans from the ANMM or copying them at Snap Printing.

Sometimes just a matter of shopping around!

Regards,
Darren

[graemet]

I guess I'm lucky as I have a photocopier at work and the latest printer is a MFP with a copier function along with a fax. We replaced SWMBO's printer with an HP MFP a few months ago, the thing was discounted AND HP were offering $100 cash back, cost about $250 all up!
Cheers
Graeme

[bondiBlue]

Hi... I've been lurking for a while. For the past 6 months a mate and I have been thinking about building a pair R/C yachts for sailing on some of the enclosed bays in inner west Sydney, and have been huntinh around for plans, which seem to be a very jealously guarded secret.

I'm not talking about scale models, either.

I've found numerous Marblehead designs for wooden construction around from the 1950's, this one is a classic http://www.pondboats.com/riptide.htm

- however at 50" the Marblehead is a tad small and I'm looking for plans for something more like this http://www.murraybarber.com/shelaghmaire.php
(these are America's Cup class boats)

BTW this has to be about the most beautiful R/C model I've seen. The fellow will make one to order but the price is way OTT.

or http://myrc.org/bobsboatyard/advantag.htm

Then there is the A Class, even bigger

http://www.amya.org/aclassphoto.html


If anyone knows of plans for anything like these I'd love to know.

[TK1]

Hi BondiBlue,

Thanks for your post and the links - that wooden yacht is certainly very nice!

Probably the best place I know (locally) for RC model yacht plans like this is Flat A Boat down here in Melbourne. Their website is www.floataboat.com.au

Click on 'products' on the left and then 'model yacht plans' (from memory) and you can download a list of RC yacht plans. The guy running the shop has been doing these for many years, and can also custom-design a plan for you at reasonable cost. Worth a visit to the shop if you ever get down here too.

Certainly something I'd like to make one day (when I get the backlog of other models built!!). I have one of the old sailboat models from the 1920's that was raced on Middle Harbour, about 2' long and 4' high, hull is carved from a single piece of mahogany or similar. Lovely :-)

Good luck with the Rc yaht, post some pics if you build one!

Regards,
Darren

[Ian Smith]

BondiBlue,
I used to mess about with model RC yachts over a period of around 10 years and if I could just offer you one bit of learned wisdom. If your main aim is the building of the yacht then I guess you best keep searching but if your main aim is sailing the thing, then I reckon your best compromise is the EC12 Class. They're not a heavy weather boat and they're a "one-design", so you have to buy your basic fibre glass hull and deck from a registered builder. The design is (supposedly) based on a towing tank model of an America Cup defender "Columbia".
Anyway, to get to my point - this design has an integral keel, and that's a big advantage for general messing about because they have a relatively shallow draft, and they don't catch weeds, plastic bags and other flotsam the way those with a long blade and lead bulb keels do.
Even if you were to build a timber version I would still think seriously about where you are likely to go sailing because those blade keels do restrict your options

Ian