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banksiaman
7th August 2006, 09:16 AM
Hi All,

I really like the Work In Progress posts, especially when they contain mistakes and how they were fixed, so I began taking pictures when I started my new project.

The Project - a lot of Jewellry Boxes.
After making three jewellery boxes (see here (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?p=281217#post281217) ). I got a lot of interest in them for other presents and "outside orders". After looking at what stock I had, I thought with a few more bits, I would have enough to make 13 boxes. Now I'm sure some naysayers will say "13 will only bring on the end of the world as we know it..." and I would usually disagree, but there was some natural selection brought about either by the fates, or just my stupidity - more on that later.

To a lot of you this may be "easy peasy" and you may do things differently but this is my journey, and I consider I did / am doing the best with what I have in terms of hardware and technique (it just may not be "Best Practice").
Feel free to comment, critisize, suggest, laugh at or even ridicule, but post all this in the thread, as I think these Work-In-Progress posts are really valuable.

I didn't get a digital camera in time for snapping the resawing of the bigger bits, so the story begins with the timber resawn and run through the thicknesser.

pic 1 - sorting out stock, all thicknessed, and starting to dimension sides.

pic 2 - being a mere male, I am only capable of doing one thing at a time, and my shed time where I can use machinery can be a week or weeks apart, so I have found I MUST write down every plan, decision, reason, revision and what I actually did, in a book, otherwise I spend too much time trying to remember where I am up to each time I start in the shed.

pic 3 - once sides are dimensioned, they must be finished on the inside face, either before cutting the dovetails or after, it's just too hard once the box is glued up. Sandpaper (240 and 400 grit) and/or scraper does the job. If you don't have a scraper, even an old one like this, you need to get one, they are the greatest thing since sliced bread for difficult grain, they are easy to sharpen (yes I know the one in the photo needs sharpening) and they are relatively cheap, for what they can handle.

pic 4 - starting to cut the dovetails. I used a Gifkins jig, "H" profile, with a spacer for the saw kerf when cutting the lid off.

banksiaman
7th August 2006, 09:22 AM
pic 1 - test fitting for trimming the top and bottom edges flat and flush ready for the next step

pic 2 - dimensioning top and bottom panels using the test fitup of the sides.

pic 3 - after cutting test pieces to double check settings, cutting grooves for fitting top and bottom panels.

pic 4 - center groove cut in the long sides for runners

pic 5 - the grooves are cut with stops on the router fence to stop the grooves from breaking out through the dovetails and being visible on the outside of the box - they are hidden on the inside of the dovetails.

banksiaman
7th August 2006, 09:30 AM
pic 1 - tops and bottoms are dimentioned and eased to fit grooves. The corners are trimmed to fit the stopped grooves in the sides.

pic 2 - after double checking orientation and fit, the bits are laid out ready for...

pic 3 - glueing up. I use a small brush and proceed as fast as possible to get all the dovetails glued, box assembled, excess cleaned, clamped up, checked for square, and checked and checked and checked for stuff ups - I'm not being obsessive-compulsive, I just know what stupidity I'm capable of...

pic 4 - 3 sides together, top and bottom slipped in and...

pic 5 - last side glued and slipped on

banksiaman
7th August 2006, 09:34 AM
pic 1 - cramped up...

pic 2 - glue set and a sigh of relief that sides are where they are supposed to be, top is on the top etc. and it is more or less still square and flat (SLIGHTLY out of square is OK, as top and box will match, if you keep the top oriented, and SLIGHT out of flat base can be fixed

pic 3 - dovetails are cut to be slightly proud, so next step is to plane off excess, and sand on the patented double sheet sanding jig - this is a highly specialised jig to prevent rounding off edges and corners by big boofs like me.

pic 4 - Coachwood, Red Cedar and NG Rosewood boxes sanded, and the Coachwood box coated with a coat of Danish Oil / PolyU mix. All boxes taken to this stage ready for cutting the top off.

pic 5 - Top cut on the table saw. The first three boxes (another post) were cut completely through - the problem there was being very careful when there was only one uncut edge as it left the top unstable. These boxes were cut leaving the inside 0.5mm left on all sides. The drawback for this method later.

banksiaman
7th August 2006, 09:47 AM
pic 1 - The tops are then separated from the box by carefully sawing through the kerf with a fine saw, trying to keep to the middle of the wider existing cut so you don't mar the sawn surface too much.

pic 2 - voila. The small amount of protruding timber must be carefull trimmed away, the problem alluded to above is that there is a risk that this protruding feather can crack off taking a little of the side timber with it.

pic 3 - Now just in case you think I'm really special because it appears I never seem to make any mistakes, you couldn't be further from the truth. I've taken pictures of just three of these mistakes and how I fixed them. One was fixed so it was practically invisible, the next will be invisible with a bit more work, and the last - sadly not fixable

Case 1 - a mistake in the spacer placement on the Gifkins jig , and I just started the cut before realising my mistake.

pic 4 - The solution is to find a scrap of the same timber that can match the colour and the end and long grain, and pare it to fit the mistake. It was then glued in, and if you think it doesn't quite fit, you can use a hammer lightly to spread the patch enough to take up the slack.

pic 5 - repair planed and sanded - will be invisible when finished (or would be if not for case 3 - later)

banksiaman
7th August 2006, 09:55 AM
pic 1 - Case 2 - half tail that's chipped, and a sloppy pin cut leaves 2 gaps.

pic 2 & 3 - Add a matching thick shaving and a scrap and use light hammer persuasion on the scrap if needed and glue in

pic 4 - not as good as case 1, shaving should have been thicker, more wood and less glue line, but will be OK with some colour touch up before next coat of finish seals it in.

DPB
7th August 2006, 10:05 AM
Thanks for sharing your journey with us. Some nice work here - I look forward to the conclusion.

The longer I work with wood, the more I realise that the art of woodworking has a lot to do with hiding mistakes. They seem almost inevitable - no matter who hard one tries to avoid them.:)

Sculptured Box
7th August 2006, 10:13 AM
banksiaman

I like the progress photographs, a great way of sharing the knowledge, thank you.

My view is that we should not be worried about so called mistakes, rather we should grab them with both hands as opportunities for innovation!

Gumby
7th August 2006, 10:18 AM
My view is that we should not be worried about so called mistakes, rather we should grab them with both hands as opportunities for innovation!

I innovate regularly :rolleyes:

banksiaman
7th August 2006, 10:22 AM
pic 1 - Case 3 - Remember this picture? If you figured out then that there was a problem with the placement of the cut when you first saw it, you will get an honourable mention in my Hall of Wood Fame.

I was VERY careful setting up the saw, and used test pieces and compared them to the box, and rechecked and etc etc....
I then used the worst box (13th?) for the first cut, just in case.
You may spot the fact that the saw kerf is not in the centre of the Tail? How odd, I checked everything over and over again before making the cut, how could I have stuffed this up "N$JLK* KJ@KJ#$H*( @#(*&@# #*&*($".....

pic 2 - another view with the top of the box facing the camera.
"N$JLK* KJ@KJ#$H*( @#(*&@# #*&*($"....., the special wider tail that was to be cut is still there in all it's glory, untouched, near the top of the box
"N$JLK* KJ@KJ#$H*( @#(*&@# #*&*($".....
ALL the rest went OK.

Oh well, only 12 boxes now...12 is a lucky number?...right? please say it is...

This is where I am up to at the moment,
More installments as I get shed time...

banksiaman
7th August 2006, 10:31 AM
Thanks guys,

I'm learning about covering up mistakes fast, and yes I love the challenge of them, but the last one will need a lot of thought, I think - might have to leave it to the end.

Thanks again

Chris

scooter
7th August 2006, 11:14 AM
Thanks for the thread, Chris, and for posting the mistooks & how you fixed them.

I do this all the time, and I agree with Don, part of the woodworkers arsenal of skills and techniques needs to be how to fix up those bugger moments. 'Tis for me definitely :D


Cheers................Sean

DPB
7th August 2006, 02:58 PM
Thanks guys,

I'm learning about covering up mistakes fast, and yes I love the challenge of them, but the last one will need a lot of thought, I think - might have to leave it to the end.

Thanks again

Chris

How about this?

Select a contrasting timber trimmed to 3mm thick; cut the width of this piece to the thickness of the box wall; glue it along one edge where you mistakenly cut; mitre where the corners meet; glue the other portion of the box to this surface. Then separate the lid from the box where you first intended it to be. You now have a contrasting trim feature, something you intended from the beginning.;)

banksiaman
7th August 2006, 03:43 PM
Thanks Scooter.

DPB - I had thought of that, but put it off, as I would have to take off a bit more of the bottom so the insert would be in the middle of the tail, and I wasn't sure how it would then look in the scheme of things. The top on this box is not the best - it has a crack on one side but has been glued, so its not a problem stabilty wise, but you can just see the glue line. I'm just not sure it is worth the trouble.

I will keep your suggestion in mind though,

Thanks,

Chris

Simomatra
7th August 2006, 07:06 PM
Thanks Chris,also for the journey, well done

Nice to know I am not the only one that makes the mistakes Great to see you alsos showed how you attended to them

A green sent

Auld Bassoon
7th August 2006, 07:46 PM
Great thread Chris!

Making mistakes or plain old fashioned foul-up seems to be stock-in-trade with me, so happy to learn from others...

Ironwood
7th August 2006, 07:56 PM
thats a good read, thanks for putting in the effort to put it in a thread . good work :) :)

Billylad
7th August 2006, 10:25 PM
You are a great teacher chris. Thanks for your time and effort.

tonysa
7th August 2006, 10:56 PM
excellent thread chris, loved the pics
well worth the read !!!
i'm always being creative in my woodwork, certainly good to have tips and tricks to restore an otherwise ruined piece.
i like the idea of leaving 1/2 mm when parting the top, good idea

you putting hinges on the lid ??? my blunders come from hinges, give me the %%#$'s - router fence will solve part the problem. be interested to see what you come up with

cheers
tony

banksiaman
8th August 2006, 08:58 AM
Thanks for all the replies, you lot - appreciated.

tonysa - yes there will be hinges (or all in one hinge/stay combination) and yes they are the most troublesome part of the construction. I'm sure the keyboard will get a workout when I report on them.
Even though the boxes are all slightly different dimensions due to the timber available, I purposely made the sides all the same thickness, so when it came time to rout slots to house the hinges, I could set up the router, fence and stops to do all at once :D :o :confused: That's the theory anyway.

Chris

RufflyRustic
8th August 2006, 09:49 AM
Nice work - love the WIPs.

But I think a greenie is deserved for showing your Notebook and that you did write down pertinent info.

Lovely boxes. Keep em coming

cheers
Wendy

Wardy
8th August 2006, 12:58 PM
thanks chris for sharing your methods on boxmaking, very informative.great photos. its good to know that we all have our little inconveniences with dovetailing.its a good learning curve on how to make the those small blemishes blend in as if they hadn't happened.i like the different timbers your using and look forward to the finished boxes.
cheers wardy :)

Tex79
8th August 2006, 05:14 PM
Great thread Chris, from where I'm sitting the boxes are looking fantastic. Remember your only human and mistakes are part of life.
What router bit are you using to create the floating panel of the lid, I think it makes the box look very stylish with out over doing it.
Keep up the great work.

Cheers,

Evan

banksiaman
9th August 2006, 09:20 AM
Thanks All,

Tex - I cut a plain rebate around the edge, set up so there was a bit of clearance (0.5mm or slightly more) between the end of the floating panel and it's housing, and the panel face would be set so the sides were slightly proud of the panel, to allow a bit of adjusting to get the box dead flat on the bottom for example. The the chamfer was cut with a plain 45deg bit and a fence.

In the diagram, "a" is a bit smaller than "b", and "c" is a bit smaller that "d"

:confused: clear as mud?

When routing, always cut the ends with cross grain first, then the edges with long grain. Any tearout on the end of the cut (almost inevitable) can be trimmed off when you do the long grain edge.

You really need a fence and router table for this, and do lots of test cuts in pine scraps, use verniers if you have them, and then do the cuts for real.

Chris

zenwood
9th August 2006, 12:27 PM
Excellent, excellent thread, Chris. The photos are really good, and the explanation of what is going on is very clear. I'm especially impressed that you had the cool-headedness to take photos during glue-up. I'm always in such a state of nervousness at this point that photography is the last thing I think of.

For this one:
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=28026&d=1154904836

I think part of the problem with the repair was that the gap on the left was so thin that your slip of veneer buckled at you slid it in. Would recommend cutting a sawkerf in there with a tenon saw to make it a bit wider, then fitting the veneer to that. A similar technique would probably help on the right hand gap too.

Greeny on way.

banksiaman
9th August 2006, 01:02 PM
Thanks for the comments, Zenwood - I agree with you, I will try this next time, increase the gap so I can get a better piece of veneer in. The problem would be matching the grain, but I think your right.

Chris

Tex79
10th August 2006, 09:14 AM
TexI cut a plain rebate around the edge, set up so there was a bit of clearance (0.5mm or slightly more) between the end of the floating panel and it's housing, and the panel face would be set so the sides were slightly proud of the panel, to allow a bit of adjusting to get the box dead flat on the bottom for example. The the chamfer was cut with a plain 45deg bit and a fence."


Chris,

Thanks

Tex79
10th August 2006, 09:15 AM
TexI cut a plain rebate around the edge, set up so there was a bit of clearance (0.5mm or slightly more) between the end of the floating panel and it's housing, and the panel face would be set so the sides were slightly proud of the panel, to allow a bit of adjusting to get the box dead flat on the bottom for example. The the chamfer was cut with a plain 45deg bit and a fence."


Chris,

Thanks for the info, it seems pretty straight forward and even better it doesn't require the purchase of more router bits.

Cheers,

Evan

banksiaman
9th October 2006, 05:48 PM
Finally, something to report...

Must apologise for the extended delay, several attacks by viruses and bacteria unknown, as well as other duties, but I am back.

The next step in the box(s) saga involves the runners, so:

pic 1 - cutting a lot of strips, and I had to use 2 bits of timber, with slightly different colours (I think the timber was Mountain Ash), so I will use the lighter ones for the lighter coloured boxes and the darker ones for the darker boxes.

pic 2 - the strips are sanded smooth and cut slightly overlength, and carefully trimmed to the exact length on the shooting board in the background.

pic 3 - the strips are then glued and cramped in place.

More as soon as I can.

Chris

banksiaman
9th October 2006, 05:50 PM
pics 4, 5, 6 - Adding my mark. I thought I would add the next 3 pictures since this subject has come up in another thread.
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=38708 and
there was another one recently, which I can't find now.

I used to use a rubber stamp with black archival ink for marking things I had made, as I thought makers mark badges were overkill for small items. After talking to Chris Vesper, he put me onto a mob in Melbourne who make punches to order. They were very efficient, gave me a lot of help in the design, and were very prompt in delivery. I'm not involved with the company, just a very satisfied customer.
The name of the mob is Unimark, 60 Sheehan Rd, Heidelburg West, 3081
The person I dealt with is Paul Rushton email: [email protected]
It cost me about $180 for a 1" sqare punch, and is for use on timber or brass.
My only problem with it is one of my technique hitting it with a hammer and occasionally getting double marking slightly out of register, I assume the hammer bounces off and then rehits the punch. I wonder if a dead blow hammer would fix this?

Obviously the box bottom is supported with a big lump of wood underneath before I belt it.

If you were thinking of some way to mark your work that wasn't too big, consider a punch.

Chris

banksiaman
30th July 2007, 12:35 PM
Next step - Hinges

Hinges seem hard and can be a lot of work, especially these that include the stay, and they are being housed unevenly, because of the limited height in the lid. Taken one step at a time, and with some confidence in your ability to fix/hide your mistakes, you WILL be successful.

photo 1: it is an advantage if you can find a straight or spiral router bit the same width as the leaves of the hinge. With stops in the right place and the fence setup tested with scrap, one side cut done.

photo 2: the groove along the rear of the box is done the same way with adjustments to fence and stops.

photo 3: without changing the stops, just put in a spacer to let the bit clean out the rest of the groove for the hinge overhang.

photo 4: voila. because the hinges are small and the wood left either side of the hinge leaves is so thin, great care was needed in the cutting as well as the fitting of the hinges. A slight twisting of the hinge taking it out can break this small lip of wood. Several were glued back on.

The next step was cutting relief for the stays, but the most relief was in the body of the box, there wasn't a lot in the lid for stays.

photo 5: A small bit was used to take out most of the waste, and the drill press had trouble holding the small bit so I used a pin vice to hold the bit.

banksiaman
30th July 2007, 12:38 PM
photo 1: depth stops (masking tape) were used, one for the lid and a longer one for the body of the box.

photo 2: most of the waste taken out...

photo 3: I found the quickest way of cleaning out the waste in such a narrow mortice was to use the drill as a mill - carefully and in small nibbles. Didn't break one. :D

photo 4&5: Shows the amount the stay is housed in the box body, and the amount left to be housed in the lid.

banksiaman
30th July 2007, 12:40 PM
photo 1: hinge finished.

The only problem with hinges now would be slight adjustment in hinge placement to adjust for lid fit. Thin spacers to adjust height, and adjustments in hinge position (>0.5mm) by gluing hard toothpicks into screw holes, and redoing screw holes in their new position. I had to do a bit of fiddling with these because of variation between hinges - they are only cheap pressed metal hinges from Bunnings. Better hinges weren't available in this size and style.

banksiaman
30th July 2007, 12:43 PM
Trays. The trays were made from Huon pine and/or King Billy pine.

photo 1: Trying to make best use of the bits I had. All trays are the same height, but of varying length and depth, to suit the various size boxes.

photo 2: Using the Gifkin's jig to cut the dovetails.

photo 3: Any chipout is dealt with straight away so I have a good chance to find the offending piece to glue it back in. The bit that came out is a perfect match for the gap, much easier than trying to make a new piece later.
A bit of greaseproof paper and a small clamp make it easy.

banksiaman
30th July 2007, 12:45 PM
photo 1: After cutting the grooves for the base, a vertical groove to match the divider is cut as in this picture, with...

photo 2: stop and moving fence a measured 90deg.

photo 3: the stack is growing, but test fits are mandatory for me as my own stupidity knows no bounds.

banksiaman
30th July 2007, 01:46 PM
Lining. This would have to be the easiest step provided you are very carefull with your measurements and clean in your cutting and assembly. This is the final step on the inside, so what you do here is what people see.

After seeing various posts on suede tarnishing jewelry, I stuck with a suede look material, or adhesive backed green felt. I had a request for a "Blokes Box" and he prefered felt. The adhesive backed felt is even easier to do than the material.

photo 1: trying to find the best colour material for the colour of the box.

photo 2: cut stiff art cardboard to match the bases of the box and the tray. If you are using material you need to allow a gap for folding the material under the cardboard, and for felt - a snug fit, since it is not folded under.

photo 3: for the material I used, about 0.5mm or slightly more was OK. If the fit with the material is too tight, the insert will buckle slightly, and will never sit flat. Felt inserts can be trimmed slightly, cloth ones can't.

photo 4: Cloth covered inserts have very little give in them, so to make it feel more like suede, I included some thin craft sponge sheet (green stuff in the pic.) under the material. spray one side of each sheet with craft contact glue and...

photo 5: press both together and...

banksiaman
30th July 2007, 01:49 PM
photo 1: trim to the size of the cardboard.

photo 2: spray foam sheet and the underside of the material

photo 3: bond so that there is a cardboard sheet on the bottom, then a foam sheet in the middle, and a layer of material on the top. Trim so there is about 1.5-2cm excess of material. Spray the cardboard along the edges for approx 2cm where the material will be folded.

photo 4: trim the corners at 45deg. with about 1mm excess at the corner. When you fold the material, this will cover the corners of the cardboard.

photo 5: the material can be folded over where the glue is along the edge of the cardboard, as the material already has glue on it, particular attention is paid to the folding at the corners, and any overlap is trimmed so there is only 1 layer of material anywhere.

banksiaman
30th July 2007, 01:51 PM
photo 1: the insert can be dropped in, but I put a good smear of glue stick glue on the base of the box or tray, especially in the middle to keep the cardboard insert in place if it is slightly loose, and to hold the middle down if it starts to bow upwards. You don't have to cover all of the base with glue, just strategic spots.

If you need to get the inserts out again, use a sharp point (needle, nail etc) that you can put a small hook in, so you can carefully ease it in at the side and lift from there.

more soon. (Sorry if this is old hat, I haven't had much time to finish this post - nearly done now)

zenwood
30th July 2007, 03:42 PM
Glad to see this thread continue.

The extra 1 mm on the felt mitres are a good tip. I've been stung by cutting the felt exactly to the corners.

Have the boxes already got a solid bottom before insterting the felt panels?

banksiaman
30th July 2007, 04:56 PM
Zenwood,

The extra is for the material lining as it is folded over and you don't want cardboard corners showing, the felt lining I cut to the corners exactly as it is not folded under (too thick), but then my cardboard insert was the exact size needed.
I used adhesive backed (peel and stick) felt which I think is a little more flexible that straight felt, and it would "spread" ever so slightly, so if you were worried there would be a slight gap, trimming the felt 0.5mm bigger that the cardboard is OK, and there would be a slight give in the felt fibres to hide minute gaps.
The trick appears to be to get the cardboard the exact size you need first.

Yes the box is complete at this stage, so it goes on the wood panel at the bottom of the box or the tray.

Hope that is clear.

Chris

banksiaman
31st July 2007, 08:43 AM
Finishing.

I have been using Danish Oil with 25% gloss polyurethane added for finishing, with a coating of UBeaut wax to top it off. With open pored wood like this Aust. Red Cedar, the grain is far from filled, which is the look I was after. I wanted it glossy enough to see the figure and changes in light from the wood, but I wanted it to look natural.
The problem with this is when you use a white wax.

pic 1: If you look at the lid, you can see that the pores have a white look, since the wax is white, and as sufficient wax is visible in the deeper pores, you see it as it is in the jar.

pic 2: my solution (and the solution of many before me) is to colour the wax with a few drops of solvent based stain. For matching the red cedar I used a mixture of walnut and cedar, and it literally is a few drops in the small jar. Worked beautifully, and the wax finish buffed with a swansdown mop is shmick mate.

Wongo
31st July 2007, 10:18 AM
Chris, this is a great project and you have done a very good job. Congratulations.

zenwood
31st July 2007, 10:34 AM
Colouring the wax is another great tip. I've learned heaps from this thread, so thanks for a superb WIP.

Whenever I've tried buffing with a swansdown mop, I sometimes find that the mop fibres get caught in the grain. I've assumed this is because I've not sanded finely enough, or perhaps it's that the mop is too new. (This is after the trick of using a hacksaw blade to get rid of the brand-new mop's fine fibres.) I'm wondering if you had any similar problems?

banksiaman
31st July 2007, 01:58 PM
Zenwood,

Yes I get the occasional fibre, but being white against wood, it's fairly obvious. Did the hacksaw blade trick, but even so, you would think it had snowed on the workbench after the first couple of boxes. Much less now.
I sanded to a worn 400grit, then 3-4 coats of oil/polyu mix, with sanding between coats if needed (not very often), so it's fairly smooth before waxing. Edges still catch fibres though. Still better that buffing by hand :2tsup:

Chris

Tex79
31st July 2007, 06:03 PM
Brilliant thread Chris, the boxes look great.

I've learn't so much from this post, thankyou.

Cheers,

Evan

jow104
31st July 2007, 06:11 PM
The boxes are great.

Thank you for the thread which must also have taken much time preparing.

detfall
31st July 2007, 09:09 PM
Excellent thread Chris!!! It is good to see that you are so open and honest to document even your mistakes. RESPECT!

But pointing us to this failures helps us much more than any perfect made box. For me the best threads in this forum are those from which I can say: I have learned a lot.

Your documentation belongs to this class!

Detlef

AlexS
31st July 2007, 09:47 PM
That's a top WIP, and an excellent box as well. Thanks for that. I've discovered that there's always something new to learn.

adhmad
2nd August 2007, 05:50 AM
Chris - I admire the very high standards you have set. As an absolute beginner I would be quite pleased with the 13th box - everything is relative - well done

Frank:2tsup:

Billylad
2nd August 2007, 08:44 PM
educational and a wonderful journey,thanks

MikeCrawshaw
2nd August 2007, 11:42 PM
Thanks Chris, a brilliant tutorial, warts and all.

The error fixing is the most important part for me as I constantly surprise myself with how inventive I can be when fouling things up!!:C