Domino Depth Gauge issue

[Flowboy]

Hi all,

I have begun using the Domino for serious combat and have a question.
I am using the manual depth selection to set 13mm. I also use the third setting on the dial to give maximum width cut (approx 35mm I think with a 10mm cutter.
I am using this setup to cut 115mm and 75mm mortises. To my dismay, after the first try, I found that the mortise was in fact 22mm down and on loking at the guage, saw that it was in fact 22mm. Thinking I had not locked the plate, I tried again ensuring the lock was set with the same result.
Is there an easy fix or am I now going to be a further 4 days behind. The leg I was cutting is now all but ruined and it is a hell of a lot of work to buy timber, bandsaw the leg pattern, plane and sand, then mortise.
This is very disappointing.

Regards

Rob

[wormdrive]

tools no good, I'll give yer $50 for it.

[Lignum]

Flowboy i know this sounds simple but Rule No1 in everything you do that involves cutting motrices, dowels etc, do a test first up on scrap:D

And 22mm on the depth stop will = 11mm manual.

Just put mine on 13mm manual and it cut perfect at 13mm (which would be 26mm on the depth stop if it was their) :D

[Carpenter]

Yeeeaaah! :confused: Well I reckon the Domi owners are getting into their own fog level here.I suppose you've just got to own one to get this thread, speaking of which, circumstances are unfolding to bring about this very situation for myself ;) . There's only so much tantric domi lust a man can bear!

[Lignum]

Carp, when do you pick her up:D

Oh and the manual depth guage if it is on 11mm means the center of the mortice is 11mm from the top of the timber. Domino also has preset height stops that are set to quickly guage the center of a board. As in if you have a 20mm thick board set it on 20mm and it centers it and that same setting on the manual is 10mm. Fairly simple but super effective.

[Flowboy]

Thanks Lignum,

I'll have to take a photo for you. Unfortunately. Setting the peset stop may be an option. I think it may have something to do with vibration generated using the widest cut with a 10mm bit. I'm going to go back to using a narrower cut and see.
But, still, I have set the depth gauge to 13mm and begun cutting. At the end of the cut, the depth gauge clearly shows 22mm, so the plate has definitely moved, resulting in a mortise which is not straight and quite ragged.
And your right, test first, get results. But I have done this twice before with no problems.

Regards

Rob

[Rocker]

Flowboy,

I didn't answer your query at first, because I didn't really understand what the problem was - you referred to depth selection, whereas the term the manual uses is 'jointing height' - depth is how deep the cutter penetrates. It seems clear from what you say that you cannot have locked the 'clamping lever for jointing height adjustment', i.e. part 2.3 in Figure 2 of the manual.

IT folk have a term for what you need to do as a last resort, RTFM - Read The ******* Manual.

Lignum,

It seems to me that the 'selection slide' (part 6.6 in Figure 6) is rather redundant. I just use the vertical scale (6.3 in Figure 6) to set the jointing height. How hard is it just to divide the thickness of the workpiece by two, in order to get a centred mortice?

When are you going to show us your jig that enables an index pin to be set anywhere between 22 and 100 mm from the centre of the mortice? I would have preferred that Festool fix that problem, rather than giving us the redundant 'selection slide'.

Rocker

[Flowboy]

Hi,

First, Carpenter, I'm sorry if I used jargon, which according to Rocker was incorrect anyway.
Second, Rocker, Read my f****** message again. My jargon may not be IT passable, but I clearly state that I ensured that the height adjustment was tightened fully.
Third, below are some pics showing similar mortices done with the same machine on similar timeber within an hour of each other. Both are 75mm cuts at a depth of 13mm. The first was done using the second cut width selection setting (is that right Rocker?) and is fine. The second was done using the third cutting width selection and has resulted in significant a drop across the cut. This was due entirely to the height adjustment, on a tightened lock, moving from 13 to 22mm.
Rocker, I have an issue here that, regadless of jargon is real and not operator dependant. I don't need the impication that I'm stupid, just some realistic advice.

Rob

[Rocker]

Rob,

I did not mean to be offensive, and I apologise if my reply seemed to have an offensive implication. However, it is clear from your photos that the jointing height clamping lever cannot have been doing its job. Either you did not lock it, or, if you did, then it must be faulty. I hope you will not take this as being insulting, but are you sure that the lever you locked actually was the jointing height adjustment clamping lever (part 2.3), and not the angle guide clamping lever (part 6.4)?

By the way, I think you should still be able to save your workpiece by routing a larger mortice, and glueing in a piece of wood cut to fit.

Rocker

[Flowboy]

Hi Rocker,
No offence taken. I'm just very frustrated. I have a habit of mixing up the two clamping levers, so was quite sure that this was the one I used. You're right about salvage, again last night I was both anxious and upset.

When you use the third cutting width setting, there is a definite left to right sway (modulation) in my instrument. My feeling is that when a large cutter such as the 10mm is being used, if there is any play in the height clamping lever at all, then the level of vibration and pull from the cutter when you start cutting will drag the height down. The left-right movement (modulation) is not obvious when using the first or second settings. Therefore, it may be that the third setting is only usable for the 5 and 6mm cutters. But I don't recall much mention of the third setting at all in the manual or on the DVD.

Regards,

Rob

[Lignum]

It seems to me that the 'selection slide' (part 6.6 in Figure 6) is rather redundant. I just use the vertical scale (6.3 in Figure 6) to set the jointing height. How hard is it just to divide the thickness of the workpiece by two, in order to get a centred mortice?

When are you going to show us your jig that enables an index pin to be set anywhere between 22 and 100 mm from the centre of the mortice? I would have preferred that Festool fix that problem, rather than giving us the redundant 'selection slide'.

Rocker

Rocker quoting "6.3 in Figure 6" is hard for me as im not a manual kind of bloke and i have no idea where it is, and i havnt even read it (quick flick through when i got it) :o But by the "selection slide" im assuming you are meaning the pre-set stops at 16,20,22,25,28 etc? If so, i still havnt used the manual setting once and only ever use those presets as that is one of the big bonuses of the Domi for me. It just means i can cut from different timber to timber on different parts of a job and always go back and get the "exact" cut using them. My standard thickness i like to use is 22mm so its so quick and easy just to click on 22mm:)

And the sliding jig? Well i was mucking around with that yesterday (interupted by Warmtone who poped in for a look and beer:D ) and i ran into a glitch. I made then out of thin marine ply and :( when they both pop onto the each side of the adjustable pin and you use one side it stops the other sides pin from retracting and alowing it to sit flush. Thats why festool didnt do it:( But alls not lost as the fixed pin is 25mm BUT the edge of Domi is 50mm and the adjustable wing is 100mm So im happy that the edge can give me the closer referance that i need:)

And Flowboy, sorry i also misunderstood your question, and i just had a look at mine and i must say i was impressed with the quality of the lock how it locks in at two points at 35mm apart. My only thought is you unscrew the small black lever and shift it to the left about 2 or 3mm to start with. Then you might be able to get more preasure on it to lock propperly. Im at a loss why its hapening to you as it looks bullet proof on mine. Keep us posted:)

[Rocker]

Lignum,

I can see the benefit of the 'selection slide' in in a production environment where you regularly use boards thicknessed to a standard thickness like 22 mm. But, even there, it seems to me that the benefit is very marginal. However, the deficiency of not being able to adjust the index pins between 22 and 100 mm is a glaring one, since it means that you still have to mark out the centre lines of mortices that you want to be centred some other distance than 37 mm from the edge of the workpiece or the adjacent mortice.

Rocker

[Lignum]

Rocker, you have to remember i dont do any production work. Every single thing i make is a one off. I just dont see the point lifting it to eye level and manualy setting it to 11mm when you can just click on 22. And their is still the easy possibility you will manualy get it on 10.5 or 11.5 and if you need to go back and re do a cut then you have to make sure its maualy the exact same setting and if you got it at 11.5 or 10.5 then you get that small ridge in your join. I couldnt do with out the pre sets. They are the icing on the cake and they are 100% the reason that evey single mating surface is absoulutly perfectly level.

And you still can shift the setting between the 22 and 100 (ply shown in the pic) but only one side at a time and then its a matter of taking it of and putting it onto the other wing. Its very simple and works fantastic. I dont think its an issue but more of a by product on how we have come to relly on such a great idea in having the indexing system

[Flowboy]

Hi Guys,

Sorry to interupt the Theory of Domino Incision Dynamics, but Lignum,
thanks for the wonderful solution to my problem. I think I have forgotten how to apply common sense.

Ocham's Razor wins again. "The simplest explanation is always correct"

I also notice a cleaner cut, probably due to the fct that the cutter is now only moving in two planes.
The Domino really is a very flexible, user friendly (would you prefer GUI, Rocker?) beast.

Thanks again all,

Rob

[Lignum]

Great to see the problem solved:D

[Rocker]

Dammit, Lignum, that jig is so simple, I am kicking myself for not thinking of it myself. I was thinking in terms of something far more complicated; but with your jig, if you make the edge of the hole for the index pin exactly 100 mm from the end of the piece of ply, then the scale on the Domino accessory will give you the distance of the centre of the mortice from the end of the workpiece.

I don't understand your 'glitch' - the bit about the pin not retracting. I have made up a jig like yours and find it allows me to set the mortice centre any distance I want between 22 and 100 mm from the edge of the workpiece, simply by setting the scale to the required distance on the Domino's accessory. Of course, it does not solve the problem of how to use the index pin for measuring distances between 22 and 100 mm between mortices, apart from the standard 37 mm distance.

Rocker

[Lignum]

Rocker the glitch :D Initionaly the jig was to be (soon will be) made from perspex, and like in the pic below the red line is the stopper extended and the yellow will be a 5mm elongated slot that slips over the retractable pin so i can go from 6mm from the edge of the cutter/mortice (so i can use the 10mm cutter and mortice the center of a 45mm rail with the centering plate and then 6mm from the end of the top of a leg or stile, and that will make both flush at the top when fitted)

Where the glitch will be, is if you have one on both wings/jigs at the same time as you need to for cutting both sides of the leg/stile, the opposite jig/pin cannot retract and will interfear with the flush setting of the fence/face. So only one side can be used at a time. But that is only a minor frustration and maybe it can be overcome when i get round to making it propperly:)

[Rocker]

Hmm, the Domino can be tough on lack of discipline; I have just wasted an hour's work and some timber, because I didn't rigourously check all the Domino settings before cutting mortices. I cut eight before I discovered that I had locked the plate at 86° instead of 90°:mad: :mad: Fortunately it wasn't jarrah that got wasted. Next time I will try to do better, and, before I make a cut, check off the five parameters: cutter diameter, plate angle, jointing height, milling depth, and width setting.

Rocker

[Flowboy]

Rocker, I agree with you. You must check all values before embarking. I think this is a reflection of the ease of use and power/flexibility of the Domino, you sort of think its all done for you. Definitely a trap for young players. On the chairs I am making, if I use the Domino I need to cut mortises into 45x95 pieces of timber for the rear rail, before bandsawing the curved shape. If you have mortised to 25mm instead of 20mm, you have holes in the back of the rail. Very easy to do if you are not diligent. With tenons this isn't an issue, but there are several advantages to using the domino over tenons which were not exactly clear when I started, but now swing the balance in favour of the loose tenon system.

Regards,

Rob

[Lignum]

Hmm, the Domino can be tough on lack of discipline;



Ahhhh, the Dominatrix at play;)

[patr]

This is not on.

For years I have managed to provide sufficient (mostly expensive) fuel for my woodburning stove as the founder and President of the "Measure Once, Cut Three or Four Times Club" ( membership: 1, assets: a pile of just too short wood and an apprentice Rottweiler).

I now find out that in a far-off place there is another Club with a greater membership than mine. I know you have more sheep, drink more beer, are better at (most) sports, have nice beaches and have magnificent Holden cars but this attempt to infiltrate my space is beginning to grate.

Kindly measure two or three times, secure all fences and clamps before pressing the green switch, do a test run and lets have less of this covert OZ attempt to take over what up to now has been my Club, my passion and my woodpile.

Disgusted,
Wales

[Rocker]

I know you have more sheep
Disgusted,
Wales

Your Royal Highness,

You are mistaken; you are thinking of New Zealanders.

Rocker

[patr]

Bugger. :eek:
My cover has been blown. I was saying to Camilla and Mummy last week that it was only a matter of time before a Colonial saw through my disguise and that it would not be my woodworking expertise that let me down but my grasp of Commonwealth sheep statistics.

Damm you Rocker. Even Simou, who is not a Rottweiler but a Corgi, is mortified at this exposure.

Got the salutation right tho.

Charles (and his trusty chum Owen Glyndawr)

[Rocker]

I realised that all is not lost with my eight mistakenly angled mortices. I have cut four dominoes in half and glued them in; I will cut the mortices again when the glue has cured, this time taking care to see that all the settings are right before I start milling. It is only the frame for the slip seat of my rocker, so near enough is good enough in this case.

Rocker

[TassieKiwi]

Hmm, the Domino can be tough on lack of discipline; I have just wasted an hour's work and some timber, because I didn't rigourously check all the Domino settings before cutting mortices. I cut eight before I discovered that I had locked the plate at 86° instead of 90°:mad: :mad: Fortunately it wasn't jarrah that got wasted. Next time I will try to do better, and, before I make a cut, check off the five parameters: cutter diameter, plate angle, jointing height, milling depth, and width setting.

Rocker

Indeed. I have got into the habit of re-setting the cut to minimum width, the depth to 12mm, and the height to minimum, when I put her back in the box. Still need to do a mental check before each set of cuts though, as it's very easy to whack one in the wrong spot.

D

[Lignum]

Not thinking has also cost me quiet a few mistakes :( But because the tenons are such a good fit, its so easy to plug and trim and proceed with minimal fuss. Another big tick for Domi, she even makes it easy to fix "our" mistakes:D :D