Redbird: a strip-built canoe ... the Journey

[Ramps]

I have decided to follow in the footsteps of the renown Midge (can’t guarantee the same degree of wit and articulation …is that a word) to record the process, pains, mistakes and joys of building my first boat. Yes, Yes I realize that the Midge was one of the first builders of this great design and mine isn’t. Mine is a strip-built Canadian style canoe called a Redbird as per Ted Moores’ book Canoecraft with the predominant timber being Paulownia. I would have liked western red cedar but at two and a half times the cost I thought Paulownia would be good enough for a first try.

So do I start now … I don’t feel like I have anything to report. Yet I worked on the boat for the entire w/e. Well I guess that most of you know (especially the boat builders) that the venture starts a long time before the first plank/strip is laid. Some of you have been very helpful in my decisions and questions. Thanks for that and no doubt I will have many more in the process.

I’ve decided to put this thread up as I have learnt much from the trials and things that don’t go “according to the book” and the work arounds from other posts (thanks Midge and others).

Feel free to ask questions along the way, why I did what I did, why I am doing it this way, why am I not doing it that way. I know that there are many people out there that have much more experience than me (like nil for canoe building) and there are some terrific sites out there on how to do things “properly”. What I am going to portray is a run down from a first time experience to give others an insight into what to expect (and what not to do) if they are first timers.

The redbird: (Not my pics ... they're from the BearMountian Boats website)
http://www.bearmountainboats.com/gallery/Redbird/Redbird_07.jpg
http://www.bearmountainboats.com/gallery/Redbird/Redbird_06.jpg

Why did I choose the Redbird? Well I covered this decision making process in another thread but to keep it all together: I choose a plan from Ted Moores’ book Canoecraft. The canoe is big enough for the whole family and the one looks nicest to my eye. Not really a good way to select and there is pages of info on how to chose a design but there you have it.

Going back one step… Why Strip built? I was / am inspired to build a strip built sea kayak from Nick Shade’s book “Strip-built Sea Kayak” but was pressured from the family to build something they could all enjoy. So keeping the kayak in mind I thought I could “get some practice” using the same techniques to build a Canadian style canoe.

So here begins the next phase in my life…

[bitingmidge]

Ramps,

We're hanging out for the next post, just don't finish it before I get the Eureka done will you? I'd never live that down!

I've made a cup of hot chocolate, and I'm sitting back ready to watch!

All the best with it,

P:D

[Ramps]

OK OK Midge ... give me a coupla minutes to sort out my pix:D

Well what did I do on the first w/e of creating sawdust?

I turned 23 pieces of wood into about 140 pieces …. Excluding all the sawdust and offcuts.

Day 1:

Cut 2 sheets of MDF (I hate mdf:( ) into the pieces to make to the strongback.
Created a temporary table out of the strongback pieces. (pic 1)
Made zero tolerance saw top to prevent those skinny strips from jumping down the side of the blade on the old Mk 3 Triton WC. (pic 2)
Stripped the 42 x 19 mm Paulownia (pic 3)
Spent a couple of evening hours drawing moulds onto MDF

[Ramps]

Day 2:

Finished drawing the moulds onto the MDF (phew, that took a lot longer than I thought it would).

Note for next time: print all the forms full size (rather than half the forms and copy) then just stick the things to the wood as per Nick Schade’s instructions (saving … about 3 hrs?)

Jigsawed the moulds.

Shaped the moulds using spokeshave and block plane. (pic 1&2)

Assembled the three parts of the strongback. (pic 3)

Pic of the stowed paulownia strips (pic 4)

[Clinton1]

Watching with interest!
:)

[jmk89]

I will be following this with interest...looking good so far.

Jeremy

[Daddles]

I why I did what I did, why I am doing it this way…

Well? Why? (insanity is used too often on this forum to be acceptable as an excuse :D )

Richard

ps, your workshop is too neat ;) At least there's sawdust on the floor, not like Midge's ... oh that's right, he's too busy drinking hot chocolate:D

btw, get used to slaving for months, seeing no progress, then a sudden quantum change in how it all looks:(

[Ramps]

Dust wasn't on the floor 12hr later ... magic vacuum cleaner took it all away ... think they called it a tornado :eek: ... hit the other end of our street missed us.

Oh by the way "the workshop" is the carport hard building a 5m+ canoe in a 3x3m shed

[KJL38]

Glad to hear the tornado missed you. It wasn't the first one to ever go through Australind as this quote from "The Bushman" shows
"A
singular storm visited the district of Australind in the night of the
17th June, 1842. It crossed the Leschenault estuary, and entered the
forest, making a lane through the trees from three to four hundred
yards wide. In this lane, which extended for many miles, nothing was
left standing but the stumps of trees; whilst the trees on either
wide of the land stood up like a wall and were perfectly uninjured."

Very interested in seeing how the canoe build goes, are you still going to plane the strips rather than bead and cove?

Kelvin

[Ramps]

Kelvin
Hand planed rolling bevel is the idea at the moment ... maybe if I don't like the process or the prodcut I can give a pros and cons for the methods when I tackle the kayak. Got a price at teh WW show on the w/e. $43 each... $86 total and they would have to ordered in. Don't mind paying for them if it's the best way to go but after much reading I'm not convinced so shall try without.

Interesting about the tornado ... was wondering if it was global warming that was causing them more often ... perhaps not

[Ramps]

Day 3 (Couple of hours in the Evening after work)

Assembled the strong back making sure everything was very straight and whacked some legs on (see pic )

so far so good

[Ramps]

Day 4 (Couple of hours in the Evening after work)

Drilled 2” (that’s metric inches) holes in the two stem moulds so the steam bent stems can be clamped ( see pic )

Small issue here: bl**dy MDF wouldn’t drill with the forstner bit bogged the el cheapo bench drill down. Tried the hole saw … this was worse … fibres just clogged the tee and bogged the drill again. Right I’ll use my super heavy duty Metabo slow speed break-your-wrist-before-stalling drill. Just got further but still bound up the drill bit.
Need something with low contact minimal friction .. hmmm… Dug up an old el cheapo “hole saw” that looks somewhat like a bent piece of sharpened metal clamped to a drill bit …. A bit this side, flipped it over and a bit that side … success … phew.

[catbuilder]

Hi All

Just a quick note. There is whats called, I think, a end mill bit or mill end bit, used for drilling the holes in cupboard doors for the adjustable hinges used in kitchens etc.. The last time I looked they were $30+, but they do a great job in mdf/chipboard, I think for the hinges they drill something like a 38mm hole.

Sorry for interupting.

Matt

[steck]

Hi,
I am enjoying reading about your canoe making. I will keep following this thread with interest.
Thanks for posting!

[Ramps]

Thanks catbuilder, I did think of one of those but I look as I may I just could seem to magic one up out of the shed:( (prob cos I've never bought one:o )

I think I'd better catch up a bit here

Day 5 (Couple of hours in the Evening after work)

Assemble steamer

Decided to use predominantly Paulownia for the stems with a couple of Jarrah on the outside to take the knocks of the landings etc but thought the Paulownia would be easier to shape and bend.

Cut some strips of wood for the laminated steam bent stems

Retained all the Paulownia strips, chucked out most of the Jarrah ones due to knots, faults and bad grain.

Found some good straight grained Jarrah and cut a few more strips

Everything great so far … according to plan

[Ramps]

Day 6 (Couple of hours in the Evening after work)

OK this was most first day of tribulations (no doubt I’ll have plenty more)

Set up the steamer put tied the strips lightly together and chucked the expensive steam generator ($12 electric jug from Coles) under the pipe and steamed for the regulation 1hr per 1inch … which equated to 15 min for my 6 mm strips.

Practiced the clamping while the steamer was operating (only having 30-45 sec to clamp them in place after leaving the steamer. (see pic)

Go!
Pulled the strips out, pulled the string off (5 seconds)
Clamped one end of the strips (10 seconds)
Start bending evenly slowly …. SNAP … both the Jarrah strips snapped before I got anywhere near the second clamp. &*(##
OK so lets steam a bit more (not allowed to over steam apparently)
Whacked the broken strips back in (by themselves) for 25 mins
Pulled them out, held one end in place and started to bend sslloowwllyy evenly and SNAP again they both broke very early on

Wrapped the remainder of the strips in a wet towel, put the hose on them, whacked them out in the rain for the w/e and proceeded to venture up to Perth for the ww show (couldn’t find any steam benders there!) gave up for the week, bad weather, late evenings and no new timber

[Ramps]

Day 7 (couple of hours after work)

Checked the jarrah strips the night before (6 days wrapped in a wet towel) still rigid as.

Completed the rest of the strongback. (see pic ... with clamps all over it)

Measured up the strongback and drew in the centre lines and the station mould lines.

[Ramps]

Day 8

Ventured out to a local mill to check out his wares … a phone call told me that they had some green Sheoak (you beauty, let’s go the whole hog here). Generally more feature than Jarrah and supposedly easier to bend.

Walked away with half a trailer full of Sheoak … that should be about enough shouldn’t it? (see pic 1)

Finally got to the real work at about 2 pm.

Cut a few 6mm strips, cut beautifully … looks great.

Pulled out the steamer and warmed it up a bit, watched the little LED light pop out of its hole but this didn’t effect anything (a bit of CA is easier than taking it back).

Tied the strips loosely together to keep them in order and popped them in the steamer.
15 mins to go thru what I have to do in the 30-45 seconds after the strips come out.

GO!
Ripped the string off … 5 secs
One clamp … 10 secs
Bending sslloowwllyy, another clamp 15 seconds … whew … confidence building
Bend more … another clamp … going well
Bend more … YES … got there
Well with the right wood it went just as the book said it would

The next one went as per the first without a hitch and without the intrepidation.

Now I have to wait overnight for them to cool and set. (See pic 2)

[Buzza]

Fantastic work there, and a great blow by blow description as well.

I know nothing of timber steamers, except for the one I once saw in a Murray River boat yard. This was a steel pipe that may have been up to sixty feet long, and a good one foot or more in diameter. It lay across a paddock on a gently sloped area on a flat part of the river. The boiler, was on the "high" so that the steam would have to build up and then push its way down the pipe ensureing that the steam managed to cover the timber completely.

You "kettle" idea has the steam going upward in contradiction to that "old way" of steaming boat timbers. To me, this seems to suggest the timbers weren't steamed thouroughly. :confused:

Just a thought, correct me if I'm wrong. :)

[Ramps]

Buzza
as you can probably determine, I'm no expert in the art of steaming timber but I was referring to a book called "CanoeCraft" for this method of steaming the strips. I had a cap loosely on the top end with steam billowing out both the top and bottom of the pipe. I figure that if the steam is also being force out of the bottom the pipe should be fully "charged" but I could be wrong here. I know it worked well ... at least for the sheoak.
Worth more investigation if I attempt this again, thanks.

[Boatmik]

Steaming can be a great experience, but is optional.

The other common way is just to thickness the strips down until they can be bent easily enough around the required curve.

From that point the methods converge.

I think the stem strips for the balsa canoe were around 2.5mm and I used about 5. The external stem I used Australian Red Cedar about the same thickness.

The higher the density of the timber (eg jarrah) the more steaming or the thinner the strips. A good reason to choose medium density timbers (oregon, sheok, Aust Red Cedar).

Some of the higher density timbers will steam beautifully when green - straight out of the tree - but are horrors after drying.

MIK

MIK

[Daddles]

You did well to get that stem done with only four (or was it five?) clamps. Laminating's great isn't it. I love it. And the results are stunning.

Hey Mik, did you notice that he hasn't done any epoxy work yet? The give away is the clean clamps ;) The first time you glue anything together, those clamps get smothered :(

The clamps you're using seem to be the real cheap ones. I started with them too but discovered that if you go to the next level, the ones with the black, rubbery grip and heavier plastic buttons on the bits that do the clamping, you're a lot better off. They are a tad more expensive (but still cheap) but the rubbery grip is a lot easier to hold, especially when wearing gloves smeared with poxy and hence you get a tighter clamping force and the better quality buttons don't fall off all the time like the thin plastic on the super cheapies do. You can see the ones I mean here - the commercial ones at the front of the boat, not the wooden ones:rolleyes:

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=25249&d=1150876961

This is a bit late now that you've bought yourself a trailer load of sheok, but for hardwood, I buy kapur decking. Yes, you usually wind up maching the ridges off but you get some nice colours and it's very easy to use. The rubbing strips on Sixpence are all kapur and all one piece too, none of this scarfing carry on.

Cheers
Richard

this bloke's too keen Midge. We'll have to get him drunk and slow him down a bit

[Ramps]

Richard
I haven't noticed that Kapur decking in my travels I'll have to keep an eye out for it. Looks somewhat similar to sheoak in colour ... can' see if it has much in the way of feature rays or grain.
Sounds like an indon/malay rainforest timber?? :eek:

But you're right if I pursue the sheoak for the gunwhales I will have to scarf join as the longest bit I've seen so far is about 4m long.
Ideally I would like to build with all aussie wood, looks like I'll have to settle for all aust grown timber.

Yes I find the cheapy clamps are good value for money. A spot of Tarzan grip or hot melt glue seems to keep the little fall offy pads in place for a year or two (after all I think I have had these for about 10yrs). I'm now into the cheap version of the quick grips now I'll agree they're not irwins they are about 1/6 of the price and are excellent value for money. I take your advice on the better ones though, I'll have just have to source them and pick up a few every time I walk in the shop ... just looking. I did most of my initial calpming with the cheap quickgrips as they are truly a one handed operation and can start clapming from 20cm down to nothing... good when you're trying to bent the strips then can be anchored in place with other clamps.

BTW if you guys (Richard & Mik) weren't only half way to the best part of Oz I would love to sit down and have beer (Coopers dark ale of course) or a local red with you.

[Daddles]

Don't use those cheap quick grips for anything requiring real force, they don't like it - even aware of this fact, the two biguns I was given from christmas didn't last the first job :eek: . In fact, my Irwins are all stuffed too. There are some massive forces involved in pulling gunwales and things into place and most of mine failed while putting the gunwales on Redback. This is why I've gone to F clamps and the wooden wedge clamps.

Richard

[Ramps]

Day 9
Again started half way thru the day.

Pulled the strips off the moulds … looks good the Sheoak has held it’s shape very well, the more flexible paulownia was less inclines to hold its shape but being more flexible that wasn’t a worry.

Contemplated putting the good light to use by setting up all the station moulds on the strongback but decided against the idea as it would make the gluing up of the stem strips that much more difficult.

Glued up the stem strips (see pic)

Set up a couple of the station moulds ….waiting for the stem moulds … waiting for the glue to dry.

[Wild Dingo]

Good on yer Ramps!! :cool: ... re the steambending issues... what are you steaming exactly? the stem peices to lay around the stem? these being in Jarrah right?... a trick I was told about which worked with my Jarrah stem laminations was to get a kettle boil the water and soak a tea towel in the boiling water wring it out and lay it over the Jarrah... slowly SLOWLY bend and clamp the Jarrah to the mould continue heating the tea towel as you go to keep the wood HOT... carfull of the digits mate :eek: dont ask :rolleyes:

I used mdf for my original moulds but found they were the pits to screw into or tie the strips down HARD... so I have just cut out new ones from 1/2in ply for the new build... which will happen just as soon as my bloody bung leg gets more mobile! :mad:

[Ramps]

Oh dear just looked at what I last posted and realised that I'm a bit behind.

Day 10
Half of a Saturday

Set up moulds on strongback … checked alignment and generally fiddled til they were all setup to my satisfaction.

Anchored a tie strip along the top of the moulds to give them some stability when I start stripping.

Stacked about one and half cubic metres of Sheoak to dry … all I wanted was enough for a couple of stems … largest slab weighed about 45kg. Tried to do this before it got dark … failed … still at it at 9:30 pm but very happy.

[Wild Dingo]

Hey there Ramps!
Thought you may like the sheoak better :cool: seems you got a fair swag of it eh!

Mate looking at that stem peice man thats some curve there not a wonder the Jarrah snapped :eek: ... way more than the wee lassie has ;)

Lookin forward to more progress shots and tales :cool:

[Ramps]

Yeah the sheoak is beautiful shall I post a couple of pics to make you all jealous?
Tell us about it. the stem has more bend than a crossbow.

Day 11
Couple of hours after work.
Anchored a few more strips … getting used to joining strips … three each side now

Extracted the thicknesser out from under a pile of boxes and dressed a piece of
Western red cedar that I bought for a couple of feature strips. Ran the wrc thru the thicknesser … love that smell

sorry nothing eventful see day 12 for some pics

[steck]

Hi Ramps,
I am still following this thread with interest. I am looking forward to the next installment.

[Ramps]

Day 12
Finally a whole Saturday to work on the project.
Reduced WRC to 22mm (OK I split the piece that I had in half) sent them back thru the thinesser to make sure the edge of the strips were nice and smooth … left these strips a little oversize … about 21mm as that is what they were when they were smooth and as they were only the feature strips I figured the wood was better in the canoe than in the dusty … especially at the cost.
Ripped the WRC to strips, came out much smoother off the saw than the paulownia…. Still love that smell.

Well back into the stripping.
With the one stick of WRC that I bought I figured that I could put two feature strips down each side so I asked the women of the household if they should be together as one wide strip or separated by a strip of paulownia. It was unanimous … separated and now that it’s done it does look good (See first pic) . As the best piece of WRC that I could find locally still had a knot at about 2.5m along I had to do multiple joins. While this was a bit of a nuisance, wasn’t a big deal but I did stuff up on matching the ever-changing colour of the WRC in one spot … bloomin annoying still trying to work out if I’m going to cut it out as it was a couple of strips down before I noticed it (damn .. just saw it the second pic ... see the little nipper being put to good use ... she was loving it). I could probably do it without too much headache. Not having bead and cove on the strips it would make the process not a big deal.

End of the day and I’ve just hit the curve or the chine between the sides and the bottom.
Looking good and starting to look like a canoe (see pic 3).
I think the hardest part of the day was to take a break to eat some lunch, shoot down to the servo to get some fuel and mow the lawn … I hate it when life gets in the way of a good day on the canoe.

[Daddles]

Look mate, you are NOT allowed to proceed at such a pace, particularly when you are obviously achieving good things. Cripes, what do you want to do? Make us look bad? I mean, Midge has spent years not finishing that Eureka, and I have to physically force myself not to work on Sixpence, and here you are making us look like lazy layabouts ... which is not unreasonable BUT :mad: :D :rolleyes:

Just make sure the launching photos feature the huge grin this thing is going to be worth

Richard

[bitingmidge]

I mean, Midge has spent years not finishing that Eureka,
NO I haven't. I'm not up to finishing yet!

How do you people do this? I think it's all been done over the last few years, and the photos are just coming out now!
;)

P

[Ramps]

Look mate, you are NOT allowed to proceed at such a pace...

Sorry Richard for that I'll give you..

Day 13
A lazy Fathers day afternoon

More stripping.

Chuffing away quietly after lunch. Little nippers offering a hand here and there … always helps to have an extra hand to hold a strip or two especially when the strips are starting to get all bendy like.

Accumulating a nice pile of shavings as the Lie Nelson block plane bevels the strips around the tightest curves. Have found the rolling bevel is quite easy to do. After the first few strips I just eyeball the curve I’m about to tackle and start bevelling. I made a very simple little jig to hold the strips on the side of the zero tolerance table of on the Triton WC (see pic 3) and it does well to cut the mitres for the joins and holds strips well while planing the bevels. It’s unusual that the strip needs more (or less) bevelling than my first eyeballing of the situation. If it does I just mark where it needs some further attention and pass the plane over it a couple more times. So far I’m very happy with the results BUT I guess I’ll see when I’ve completed the glassing.

The light was just starting to fail as I was whacking on the last strip and I had a call the dinner was about to be served. And … the stapler failed …3 staples to complete the strip … didn’t feel good… didn’t feel like a misfeed … which the old B&D powershot very rarely had anyway …bugger … clamps and tape will do.

Pulled it apart after dinner … being US made it actually had screws … found the broken bit as I feared. Price new to replace this … $70. Saw the identical version (also called powershot) by GMC!! At half the price … must be just the chinese version … looks identical even to the writing (except the GMC part) on the side except the handle was a different colour... hmm

Oh yeah and another pic or two for good luck

[Wild Dingo]

Looking brillaint mate :cool:

[Clinton1]

Ramps, I'm not sure I like you. ;)

Day 13 and strips nearly done! Even with the jarrah bend and snap experience.
Setting a good standard, mate. Raising the bar pretty high.

Makes me think I'd better make sure I'm sorted out when I go to make mine.

I like the two WRC strips.

[Slavo]

I made a very simple little jig to hold the strips on the side of the zero tolerance table of on the Triton WC (see pic 3)

Ramps, I would be interested in hearing about your mod to the Triton WC

[jmk89]

Ramps, I would be interested in hearing about your mod to the Triton WC
I agree with Slavo. I know there is a picture of it in post #3, but a bit more detail on how the jig is put together and what it does and how to use it would be great.

BTW the Redbird is looking great. I wish my projects went together so well and so quickly!

Cheers

Jeremy

[Daddles]

Umm Ramps. I fear you've been hurrying too much. Seriously. I hate to tell you at this stage but there's a major blue in your boat. I reckon you must've had a fold in the plans or something, but whatever the reason, you've built it with two front ends :eek: :D

Richard
bastard - fast builder, compulsive builder, got a lie nielsen plane, got one of them nifty japanese saws. Sheesh, the ruddy thing'll probably float the right way up too **grumble grumble grumble**

[Ramps]

Thanks for the feedback guys it's always good to know that I'm not posting rubbish that no one is interested in on the forum as I know there are some excellent "how to" sites out there. And thanks too for the support from the guys that have been there before me and have answered all my earlier questions on other threads. Oh how's yours Dingo? Am I going to be able to paddle up the Brunswick to meet you for a pow wow this summer? (if the Brunswick flows:( )

I suppose questions I had when I was going to build was: Could I do it (not having built a boat before)? How much time will it take (a woodworker with a humble number of tools)? How much (or little) would/could it cost here in Oz still using quality products?
If I'm not answering these questions pls let me know. Oh and happy to answer any others too but I'm no expert. They will, I'm sure help me out if you ask any hard ones.

Originally posted by Daddles ...
"Umm Ramps. I fear you've been hurrying too much. Seriously. I hate to tell you at this stage but there's a major blue in your boat. I reckon you must've had a fold in the plans or something, but whatever the reason, you've built it with two front ends"

Bugger
I thought I'd be able to cheat and just get to half way ... then duplicate rather than drawing out all those extra moulds. Now where am I going to put that outboard:o

As it is I delibrerately chose a symmetrical design after looking at apic of someone paddling a cannoe "backwards" ie facing what I tought was the wrong direction and sitting on the bow seat. Got me thinking that there might be times that I will want to go off paddling by myself (being a flyfisher) and that it would be an advantage to be able to sit more centrally and point the boat the other direction. When I have another person to assist with the paddling I'll sit in the seat closest to a pointy end and I'll call that the stern ... weird concept to me at first, but I got over it.

I'll do some more pics of the"jig" :o (it's so simple that I feel embarassed to call it such)... and some in action after work and post some tonight

[Wild Dingo]

Oh how's yours Dingo? Am I going to be able to paddle up the Brunswick to meet you for a pow wow this summer? (if the Brunswick flows:( )
The blasted Brunswick better bloody NOT flow!! :mad: PERIOD!!! cause that will mean we will have washed the inside of the house AGAIN And until I get another house put on this place at least 2ft higher and further up the hill I really dont want to go there again :(



I suppose questions I had when I was going to build was: Could I do it (not having built a boat before)? Of course you could cause YOU ARE! :cool:

How much time will it take (a woodworker with a humble number of tools)? Time taken is up to you and how much time you have available... your doing EXCEPTIONALLY WELL :p

How much (or little) would/could it cost here in Oz still using quality products? cost is a bit hard to determine cause its dependant on many variables ie if you already have the timber needed to hand if you have relations friends in the industry to get you discounts on epoxy fibreglass and stuff like that... if however you dont I sorta halfassed worked out that by my already having the timber to hand it would cost me in the vacinity of $3-$400 for the rest to build a canoe... however!! that was variable depending on where I sourced the epoxy (note here it was cheeper to get it ex Adelaide than Perth) of course this may have changed as it was about 5 years since I last checked on the prices side of things



Now where am I going to put that outboard:o Well ramps you make a wee overtheside hangyuppy thingy and attach it to the side of the canoe then attach small outboard to that and away you go! easy as ;)


I'll do some more pics of the"jig" :o (it's so simple that I feel embarassed to call it such)... and some in action after work and post some tonight

And thats the very beauty of jigs... the simplicity! Time for a show and tell Ramps me ol cobber!! :cool:

And as for my canoe... ahem... well... aaahhhh.... uuuummmm... Well I did actually get around to re-cutting the moulds and made a new building board the other week!! :cool: then got hyjacked again :( She has this list you see... and when that gets low the girls top it up for her or I do somethin stoopid and she thinks of this massive list of things that suddenly MUST be done... NOW!!... And Im still muckin about sorting the shed out new shelving an stuff so I can put stuff on them and loose if :D

sigh... soon... other things first... for now lets say hospital then no movement of one shank... but after that? Call it physiotherapy!!

Cheers and mate? Shes looking great Richard is simply a jeolous guy :p me? Im proud of you! :cool:

oooh... why the blazes did you use staples for? :eek: didnt I tell you the majic secret? fishing line? oh well remember to pick up EVERY single one of those things when you take them out... nippers tootsies dont like them! :(

[Ramps]

oooh... why the blazes did you use staples for? :eek: didnt I tell you the majic secret? fishing line? oh well remember to pick up EVERY single one of those things when you take them out... nippers tootsies dont like them! :(

Yeah I know, you did, some people gotta go and do something stupid themselves before they learn ... found the dusty sucks them staples up OK though:o

If you need a well earned break on Saturday feel free to drop in if you're up to driving at the moment. I'll PM my address if you're interested. BTW we missed you on the forums for a couple of weeks back a couple ... thought you may have been back up in the desert there for a while.

[Boatmik]

Hi Ramps - looking really good. Did you notice any diff between the cedar and the Paulownia in use?

I have just been corresponding with a NZ gent who has built several kayaks.

Says it tends to dent a little more before glassed but no different from the WRC after (and he likes to play with his seakayaks amongst rocks).

During building if you dent the timber you can put a drop of water on the dent or the NZ gent reckoned wetting a clean white cloth (so colour doesn't run into the wood and ironing it on the boat.

MIK

[Wild Dingo]

Ramps mate the offers much appreciated :cool: ...but sadly I will be being ministered to by those wonderous creatures called nurses on Friday and Saturday :(

But definantly when Im up an mobile again! :cool:

[Ramps]

Ramps, I would be interested in hearing about your mod to the Triton WC


I agree with Slavo. I know there is a picture of it in post #3, but a bit more detail on how the jig is put together and what it does and how to use it would be great.


I have posted a few pics to try to functionality of the jig
It is comprised of offcut strips.
What I was trying to do is to make two things
1) a simple mitre block that I couldn't lose. (in the pic the bottom two strips)
2) a simple clamping arangement to hold the strips with the edge up so I could plane a bit at a time and just slide it thru so I could plane bit at a time. (in the pics the upper two strips

Firstly I have the zero tolerance table top. As I have the Triton WC Mk3 I found the gap in the table too dangerous to be cutting 6mm strips. So I grabbed on old piece of 19mm MDF threw the table top on top of it, traced the blade gap (for the wide cut setup) on MDF then cut a skinny piece of hardwood to fit snugly in the gap and screwed it over the marking.

That done put the table top back on the WC and put the mdf on the top so it slotted in the apropriate slot (ie not the one over the blade). I clamped the mdf to the table, turned on the saw and slowly raised it thru the mdf. I gave enough room to put the std splitter back in as I thought it would be handy when cutting the strips. (See pic 1 & 2)

Well after that I decided it was a good workbench to sit beside the canoe while under construction ... very nice to have a portable workbench with a timber (almost) top to work on. The real workbench is in the tiny garden shed where I store my tools (can't do much else in there) and it is too big and heavy to move out to the "canoe shop".

Pictures 3 & 4
The bottom two strips (the mitre block) are glued in place cos I had the glue and clamps handy.
I wanted to attach the upper most strips (for the beveling jig) with screws as I deliberately selected a bent end of a strip and screwed both ends with a gap of one strip thickness from the other one at the screws. Because the strip was bent it was closer to the other strip in the middle. This worked well as another hand and offered a gentle clamping pressure on the strip as I was bevelling it with the block plane.

More pics in the next post

[Ramps]

The bottom two strips are the mitre block. I Just glued them into place with a loose strip in between to get the right gap and parallel, then clamped the combo square against the edge of the strip and used that as a guide to cut a 45 deg angle across the two in both directions. You can see that the groove has now run into the bevelling pieces which I should have put further away but it don't matter. If I saw it thru I'll just glue that one as well.
The pics on this post show the mitre block in use ... pretty simple but if my pics or description isn't clear pls let me know and I'll do a better job (I hope).



Hi Ramps - looking really good. Did you notice any diff between the cedar and the Paulownia in use?

I have just been corresponding with a NZ gent who has built several kayaks.

Says it tends to dent a little more before glassed but no different from the WRC after (and he likes to play with his seakayaks amongst rocks).
MIK

MIK, the paulownia is definitely leaves a more furry finish off the saw and much more flexible than the WRC but the WRC was 3mm wider. As far as the paulownia denting I suppose it would but I haven't noticed being much worse than WRC but I only had a couple of strips of wrc so it was not good comparison. When I go the remove the staples I think the difference will show. However there seems to be a huge variation in wrc even along one strip so it's hard to compare.

Yet to be proven but I have the feeling that the staple holes in the paulownia will almost disappear after wetting it down to raise the grain and your comment about swelling the grain successfully strengthens that feeling.
I'll keep this in mind and pass further comment as I find out more ... fairing will start to show the true form of the two timbers.

Good to hear that paulownia is taking the knocks as well as the wrc in the final product ... much cheaper (35-40% of wrc) and clear wrc is difficult to find out in the country.

Think I'll have a few hours to continue on Saturday but then it won't be touched for a couple of weeks:eek: I think I'll need to take up smoking :(

[Daddles]

I think I'll need to take up smoking :(

Hmm, I wonder how Pawlonia shavings would go in the fish smoker :confused:

Richard

[Ramps]

Hmm, I wonder how Pawlonia shavings would go in the fish smoker :confused:

Richard

Very good
not what I had in mind

But a good thought anyway

think I'll look into it:)

[Ramps]

Day 14
An hour after work

Shot out at lunch time and had a look around the limited number of hardware stores, ended up back at Bunnies. Went for the old faithful $50, it must be good it’s still in production however B&D decided to sell off there non-powertools a few years ago (looks like they’re back into them now) and a mob called powershot bought this range and now have a pro version for $80 and still only has a 2 yr warrantee , but it’s prettier colours.

Got home to look at my clamping job in last light to my dismay. Well to tell you the truth the last strip that I part clamped was good but a couple before that were pretty poor where the staples didn’t hold real well where they twist near the stems. Removed the stables for a few strips, ran the jap saw thru the glue line and reglued … went very well.

Rain, low light and dinner put a damper on things.

[Ramps]

Day 15
Another big Saturday
Nothing much to report except a bunch more strips.

As you can see from the pix I am closing from both sides ... not like "CanoeCraft" but one of the methods that Nick Schade advocates in " The Strip Built Sea Kayak"

… the gap is closing … :D ... but I won't be able to touch it again this w/e or next w/e :mad:

[Wild Dingo]

Mongrel busturd!! :eek: I mean COME ON!!! :mad: This is just way WAY unfrigginfair! :(

So thats got me interested... your coming out at the keel line as well as in from the hull? mmmm me ol mate from the states ol Mac McCarthy would also find that interesting... he recommends a single keel strip and bringing the hull around to meet it... mmmm food for thought food for thought

Now re the Wee Lassie... Im very steadily (read very slowly :rolleyes: ) getting things together for another run at it :cool: I was out there today muckin with the hinges for the artists paint brush box when I saw outta the corner of my eye the new moulds Id cut out the other week sittin on the corner of the bench...

mmm so I went hunting some 30in long 6x1 Jarrah for the 1/4in strips for the stems... found 2 lengths!! whahooo went to it with gusto... sat them on the bench grabbed a stem mould gently "moulded" it around... mmm yep can see why ramps busted every time... so I went back found another peice and cut them again this time at 1/8 thick got my bundle back to the moulds... mmmm that would work thinks I... then I wandered back and looked up at the stack in the loft and thought he reckoned he used sheoak eh? mmm gots some of that lets give it a whirl a bundle of 1/4in and 1/8in strips were cut :D ... and mate you know what I found in my little tests? you were bloody right! :rolleyes: the Sheoak bends far better than the Jarrah more flexible eh :p

So... given that I now had a major stack of wee strips what do you think I did eh?

You would be forgiven to think Id promptly mould some to the moulds... as is usual I didnt do the bloody obvious... no I decided to make a sheoak strip seat for the canoe!! :cool: Well I made the mid section using 6 uprights and cross sectioning it with as many as it too to bring it all together nice and tight and then while I was muckin about I thought I wonder what this would look like with a Jarrah frame?... looked great! I reckon it will work ;)

So now I will take it apart again do some sanding cut some peices of Jarrah and route the slot out and make it up... ahem... once Ive stripped the damned canoe that is!! for now I'll just take it apart and put it away nice and safe after sanding of course :) ...and at the same time I will finally do those bloody stem moulds! :rolleyes:

Have you sourced the fibreglass and epoxy yet? If so could you pass on where you got it how much etc? Cheers mate

Your doin bloody famously! :cool:

[Ramps]

Dingo

Good to see that it wasn't just my incompetance when it came to bending timber :p (mind you I had never steam bent timber before so I was going from the written word but when I got something that would bend nicely it just went according to what the books/websites said).

The method of stripping from keel and "chines" is good because, as nick said, it doesn't attract your eye to any hard line of a change in direction ... being my first attempt at strip building I thought this sounds like a great idea.:o

I'm thinking of seats, trims and paddles at the moment as I want to have a few of those sorts of things sorted out before I start waiting for epoxy to cure.

I'm interested in the strip seat that you're proposing as I'd like to keep them as light as possible but I don't know if I like/can be bothered with cane. An open stripped carved seat appeals to me, I haven't seen any as yet but I haven't looked real hard yet either. I think I can make it quite light but I don't about the comfort or durability.

I sourced the epoxy and Glass from Boating hardware in O'connor, they have the Bote Cote range, had everything that I wanted in stock, phoned at about lunchtime one day and the whole lot was on the doorstep the following morning at 7:30 am. Can't beat the service. Think I may have been able to get it $20-30 cheaper from east but at %10 I'd prefer to look after the "locals" if they continue to offer that sort of service ... all up $305 ... glass, poxy, varnish, groovy roller and lots of bubble wrap. Can't guarrantee that I have enough but I can report on that at a later date.

Looking forward to getting back into it ... stripping, planing, sanding ... next w/e

[Daddles]

Bloody hell Ramps, could you do us all a favour and procrastinate a bit? Or start another boat and not tell us about it so that we think you've slowed down on this one because you're as lazy as us? Sheesh. What are planning to do anyway, USE the thing?

Richard
grumble, grumble, blush (the foredeck is sitting on Sixpence waiting to be glued ... waiting, waiting, waiting - hey, I've been playing pushbikes okay?)

[bitingmidge]

It's ok Daddles, he hasn't got to the hard bit yet :D :D :D


finishing the thing!

P:D

[Wild Dingo]

Ramps the strip plank seat uses the 1/8in strips nice and light and easy should go together like a dream... ahem WILL go together like a dream (confidence Shane confidence!) I think personally cane detracts from the overall look of a timber built canoe and so am going this route to stay with the overal theme and the sheoak looks bloody stunning as a overunderoverunder etc feature :cool: ...As for comfy I think no matter weather cane or strips its gonna eventually hurt your bum sittin there on it... a nice pillow is already in the makin by her highness :cool: use it or not it will be there ;)

Thanks for the info on Boating Hardware... cheers! Will wait to order till you know if youve got enough no use me gettin not enough as well eh! ;)

Richard? mate you gotta stop yer whingin an whinin mate!! :eek: be like me ol son smile and take advantage of the inspiration and start thinkin an doin positive stuff!! :p nah just takin the phiss mate! ;) Little steps mate little steps not all of us can be as gungho build in a series of week blocks as Ramps is... heck I reckon if he had a week off work he'd shut himself out in the carport (can you shut yourself in a carport?:rolleyes: ) and not see the light of day till its done and in the water!... mad the buggar! :D

Really I gotta thank you Ramps for buildin this canoe... nothin has inspired me to move on my own for some time now and Im finally startin to make moves on it... so thanks! :cool: Now if only the weather would behave itself... Ive been off work sittin down here for some weeks now twiddlin me thumbs cause of me bung knee and it would have been prime time to build a canoe the damned thing woulda been finished by now if it werent for the damned phissin rain!! ooh and the knee... ooh and life gettin in the way of life of course :o but I coulda woulda had it damned well done if it wearnt for that!! :p

aahh well a start is a start! :cool:

[Wild Dingo]

Okay heres a couple of shots of what Im gonna do re the seat... I think to pull it all tight as buggary I will steam the strips first that should enable me to get them close as and all lined up properly... anyway you can see what I mean... lay it all out let it dry while drying cut rout and make up the frame joining it together on three sides only leaving one side off... once the strips have dried slide cut them to size then slip the strip seat into the routed slots and fit the final side to the frame capturing the strips in place

Rough and ready as per!! :D Imagine if it were sanded!! :eek: sooo cool! :cool: Would it be uncomfortable... well I was thinking about that... with router in mind and sander near by theres no reason on earth why it couldnt be made to be comfy a tad off here a tad there a sand here and a sand their wouldnt be so hard eh?

Cheers!

[Ramps]

Interesting
I like the look and the theory
I think I'd like to round/bevel the edges on the up-side of the strips as it could bite into the behind a bit.:eek:

... a week off ... hmm ... in the carport ... hmmm ... I can see a plan coming together ... you're full of it aren't you Dingo ... good ideas that is.:D

[Wild Dingo]

oooh yes indeed Ramps Im often told Im full of it :cool: I never could quite work out what they meant so at least now I know they were talkin about my ideas! ;)

Yes routing planing or even sanding over the edges would make it a bit kinder on the buttocks and possibly the dangly bits :eek: (Well it could!! :rolleyes: )...As well as the same on the Jarrah frame... It wouldnt be too difficult to take of a smidgeon along all the edges prior to steaming and bending... well one will have to plane an sand them anyways to bring the flavor out of the grain so one just takes that smidgeon off as you go

Cheers!

PS... the box is almost done then IM FREE!! Im gettin ready I tell yer Im gettin ready!!... gots the moulds there gots the building board there just gotta bung em together check for level then cut some strips!! ;) Im only whisperin this cause that bloody nuisance fate will probably hear and kick me in the teeth again :rolleyes: so its a secret okay just beteen you me and the fencepost :cool:

[Slavo]

I'm interested in the strip seat that you're proposing as I'd like to keep them as light as possible but I don't know if I like/can be bothered with cane. An open stripped carved seat appeals to me, I haven't seen any as yet but I haven't looked real hard yet either. I think I can make it quite light but I don't about the comfort or durability.


Ramps, Nick Schade has a few piccies on his site (http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/guillemot/Gallery2CodeBase/v/KayakBuild/Wood_Seat/) that shows the process he went through to build a seat for his night heron. Hope this inspires:cool:
http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/guillemot/Gallery2CodeBase/d/1391-2/Cockpit_Print.jpg

[Wild Dingo]

Then of course then you could always do that :eek: :cool: But for me that would take way too long to get right! ;)

Hey Slavo is that pattern available for download? or only when you buy on of his kayak plans? thats stunning!

[Ramps]

Dingo
I think I remember seeing the method of producing this style of seat in the Nick Schades book "The strip built Sea-kayak" ... I'll correct that if I'm wrong when I next dig out the book. (Yes i am wrong it was on the Guillemot Kayak site, as referred to by Slavo ... good instructions there too.http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/guillemot/Gallery2CodeBase/v/KayakBuild/Wood_Seat/

Slavo
Looks very impressive and I've often wondered if a kayak seat is suitable for open canoes. A fairly different action to propel the thing. You also tend to sit signifcantly higher with heels resting at almost the same height as your behind.

But I am keen to pursue the idea ... does anyone have any experience with using kayak type seats in a canadian style canoe?

[Slavo]

Ramps,
A lot of the stuff I have read only shows the cane type seats in canoes. But I guess anything can be built, just depends on how comfortable it will be.
I haven't built one yet, still in the recon phase but the Bear Mountain (http://www.bearmountainboats.com/phpbb2/index.php) forum is primarily full of canoe builders so it might be worth having a bo peep over there

[zelk]

Ramps, I am thoroughly enjoying your thread, seems like you're very eficient and one doesn't have to wait long for your updates. Have you estimated the overall weight of the canoe? Have you also considered a name for your canoe, something like, after your little helper?
Zelk

[Ramps]

Slavo
I've spent many an hour on the bear boat forum ... you may have seen evidence of my presence there as well but I have by no way exhausted the information there. In saying that I have spent a bit of time investigating cane seat alternatives and have only found a very basic slatted seat (nothing like the woven strips like Dingo is proposing)

Zelk
Thanks for your encouragement. I put a fair bit of thought into the canoe during the week as the free w/e's are valuable and I like to be "prepared" for the next stage.

Weight is estimated at about 50lbs (around 23kg) built with WRC. As I am building with paulownia (about 30% lighter than wrc) I have potential to build it lighter. BUT by the time I do a heavier coat of epoxy (due to inexperience) and use heavy aussie woods for the trims I expect to to fall at about the 25kg mark. So providing the wind isn't too high I'd expect to be able to manhandle the canoe comfortably myself.

As for a name ... the thought had passed thru my mind and I would like to decide it soon so I could name it before embedding it in epoxy. And the thought of embedding my women's (2 daughters and wife) names in it would be a good idea (as this is for them ... the sea kayak at a later date will be for me:D ) ... still trying to come up with some good ideas.:confused: Got any?

[Wild Dingo]

(nothing like the woven strips like Dingo is proposing)

Mate I actually think it will work although I reckon if we steam them a bit it will come closer to gether than I achieved in that wee mockup... once sanded and finished it should no more hurt one's rear end than a cane one with a frame would

Mind you I DO like that one Slavo linked to! Man thats sooooooo friggin cool!



As for a name ... the thought had passed thru my mind and I would like to decide it soon so I could name it before embedding it in epoxy. And the thought of embedding my women's (2 daughters and wife) names in it would be a good idea (as this is for them ... the sea kayak at a later date will be for me:D ) ... still trying to come up with some good ideas.:confused: Got any?

"aahhh buggarit"? :D "goodenuff"? "Minescomin"? of course you could do what we did with the first boat we had that is to combine parts of the names to make a "word"... ie from Shane and Joanne (Jodys proper name that no one has called her since she was a nipper) we get "ShaJoa" could maybe work something out using their three names combined?

[jmk89]

The best combination name was my parents' syndicate name for lottery tickets - thy were/are Robert and Judith and the name was RobJu (Robbed you)

[bitingmidge]

Pardon me if I've missed it, but I think the niftiest canoe seat I've seen is at
http://www.greenval.com/index.html
It probably doesn't work any better than a plank of wood, but hey.... it looks pretty good to me, plans are $20.00 US and come with big wraps in the testimonials dept from happy purchasers.
Cheers,

P

[Ramps]

Pardon me if I've missed it, but I think the niftiest canoe seat I've seen is at
http://www.greenval.com/index.html
It probably doesn't work any better than a plank of wood, but hey.... it looks pretty good to me, plans are $20.00 US and come with big wraps in the testimonials dept from happy purchasers.
Cheers,

P

No midge you haven't missed it. I have seen this and if I am to do a cane seat it would definitely be this one or one based on this design as it has a lot more class than the flat, square planc cane vareties that are out there ... hmm and I do like the idea of sliding seat as I know some of my friends are heavier than my wife and it would be good to balance the load ... I have also thought of integrating an adjustable height as well (even if temporary) in order to understand the best height for mounting in this canoe ... more hmms.

JMK & dingo thanks for the naming ideas ... how does "Shassie" sound (it's a combination of my two daughters names.

Thanks guys

[Daddles]

Just remember the old dictum ramps 'cute has no place on a transom'. Alright, you don't have a transom but ...

The thing about a name is to do a 'doorstep' test. Go stand on your front doorstep, yell the name as loud as you can and see how silly you feel. Remember, one day, you will be standing on a pier, yelling this name to the world at large - a moments embarressment at home beats all those sniggers from the fishermen.

Richard

[Wild Dingo]

Shassie

Lets just go with that and say... "Snazzie Shassie"... I like it!! :D And so will the girls mate! ;)

See I dont have a prob with Shassie... since my eldest is Yazmynn and gets Yazzie all the time it sorta sounds good... yellin "Oy!! YAZZIE" has never embarressed me even when among a crowd of 1000 people Ive yelled it no worries... Tiffany one of our other daughters has always been Flea or Fleabag cause shes so tiny... but shes an athletic kid and was a state champion runner for several years imagine HER embarressment when from the crowd of several thousand spectators comes this roar "GOOOOOOOOO FLEABAG!!" :D she also got Tooees Nickys Kneez (all one word) for an slightly different reason (ie: she was so short an skinny as a nipper her knickers inevitably ended up down past her knees every time she ran which was 24/7) but Ive not risked yellin that one out in a crowd :eek:

So I reckon "Snazzie Shassie" invokes fun loving good lookin happy thoughts eh? :cool:

[Boatmik]

This is a really cool seat that a couple of Melbournians put in a Eureka.

Bunnings washing line. Do a neat job and any old rubbish looks good!

It looked so good I asked them what it was.

They also suggest the advantage that it stops your bott sliding downhill if the canoe heels.

Just holes drilled in the seat frame with the cord threaded through. Sorry theres not a close enough view to see that they have staggered the holes a bit - one forward, one back so they are not all in line.

The reason they used this method was to save some weight. They were trying to see how far they could go. A shade over 17kg.

I'll have some more pics with perhaps more information up on my website this weekend

MIK

[Ramps]

Day 16

Couple hours after work … good thing having to pick the kids up from school occasionally esp on a Friday when there is no work to supervise.

More strips Half filled the holes

sorry no pic today but I have decided to go with the Green Valley seat as per Midge posted above. Emailed Martin Step of Green Valley, nice guy with good suggestions and recommendations including a place to get cane (plastic) on the web in th US. So here's me thinking why shouldn't I look after our our guys, and guess what I've found out that there is sweet FA available here. A bit of natural cane at some unbelievable price. Then what do I look up on our mighty forum ... and guess what ... the same result. More on that later when I'm up to seats.

[Ramps]

Day 17

At last a Saturday to work on the ‘bird. No! only half... in the morning there is some running around to do and I might be able to sneak a look at the timber auction in town in the middle of things.

Auction was good. Not in the looking zone at the moment but is was good to see what was moving for how much. Many slabbed logs were passed in (complete logs slabbed to 55-60mm thick). Sawn timber was a bit hit and miss but the dressed timber (but still with moisture content of about 15-16%) was all moving. Jarrah mostly, some Marri, small qty of blackbutt, tuart and wandoo. That confirms it I need that big bandsaw to resaw my own timber, reckon I could make my $$ back in no time … one visit to the auction;) .

Sorry to diverge there

Completely filled the holes. Last couple of strips just slipped in with little more effort than the previous 30 odd. I suppose it was relatively easy as I had no bead and cove to shave off and I had been doing this sort of shaping for quite a while.

Started adding small bits near the stems to build up the shape. While these were drying few at a time I pulled the staples (with help form other family members see pics 1&2 ) and started planing. Sounds like the Eagles won by the noise in the neighbourhood

This is a very enjoyable part of the journey turning the strips into a continuous surface. The most difficult part of the planing is on the large flat areas near the centre of the canoe where the thin timber wants to bend away for the plane almost regardless of how little pressure is used. As I was leaving her for the evening I notice how the shape was coming on and thought the curves looked almost sensual … almost :o (pic 3).

[Ramps]

Day 18

Half of a Sunday

Put the last couple of part strips near the stems (pics 2 & 4) … that’s all the strips done with a few to spare. I had 90 strips of 3.5-4m lengths. Very little wastage … less than 10% at a guess. Quite straight grained with all up about 2 knots. Some were a bit bowed towards an end but there was often overhang to it wasn’t an issue.

Arced up the new random orbit sander (had to buy at least one new tool for this job) and hit the flat saggy areas as much to create a bit of sanding dust as filler as anything. Once it the dust bag was filled I emptied it into a clean jar and thru off the earmuffs and went back to the old Lie Neilson block plane … ah :o (pic 1).

All this fun I knew was coming to an end as I approached the ends on one side and realised that I needed to attach the outer stems. So the process of trimming endgrain, chopping a slot and fitting the outer stem. Got one dry fitted but not real happy with the final product. The keel strips didn’t got in well in the first place. Think I’ll have a go at fitting in another strip next to the stem for a better fit, won’t affect the strength but should look a bit neater. Have to have a go at the other stem next w/e with what I’ve learnt from the first. Then have to epoxy them in place … the first of using the messy stuff.

A good w/e but, like usual, didn’t get as far as I had hoped … fantasies.

Pics
1 smoothing
2 temporary "clamps" holding up the last coupla part strips near stems
3 scarf joins in strips ... bodgy "mitre block" works OK
4 Taking shape

[Wild Dingo]

You do realize I hate you about now dont you Ramps? I mean you do realize that!!

I mean that in the nicest possible way of course ;)

Bloody mongrel git!! :eek:

Anyway enough about me... so yer reckon you'll launch her next weekend eh? goodoh let me know where and I'll come down with camera an take some pics! :cool:

So aside from the issue of failin to bend the Jarrah and going for sheoak instead how did the Kiri stripping go? (Kiri being the easier spelling and alternative name of the Pauliwannia stuff ;) ) So you reckon it went easy as? what probs did it give you? hows it look... no I can see the pics but pics bloody well lie dont they!
Cheers
Shane

[Ramps]

Dingo
I thrive on being hated in the nicest possible way. Ta

Mik also asked this and now I am in a better position to comment so here goes.

As far Paulownia / Kiri I'l have to reserve my judgement on looks til I have a coating over it cos as with most timber the grain hasn 't really come out as yet especially with blonde woods.

As far as working with it:

- It dents easy but it repairs very well with a bit of steam.
- It cuts easily but leaves a fuzzy surface when ripping.
- It plains well but can be a little mushy when planing diagonally across the end grain.
- Glues very well.
- Sands easily to a nice surface.
- Doesn't chip out like WRC and more resistant to chip out when planing the wrong direction.
- Only a slight odour not particularly pleasant (like wrc) or unpleasant for that matter.
- Little variation between strips (well it looks that way at the moment) so it's easy to end match strips if you're joining which is inevitable if your canoe is over 4m (about 13 metric feet:) ) long as I don't think longer lengths are available at the moment. On saying that there is some variation in colour and density so it should add reasonable feature to the canoe.
- One of the things I have noticed is that I have got NO splinters from all the strips I've handled ... amazing.

Well that covers my observations so far. Would I use it again? Well if it comes up anywhere near reasable then I defintely would at about 40c/strip metre compared to about $1 for WRC (if you cut yourself and are prepared to join every full length strip).

I think I would also like to try meranti in the furture as well as it sits at about 400-450 kg/m3 and has significantly more feature ... would love to hear experience/ opinions of others on this.

[Boatmik]

Howdy Ramps,

Just so you know I'm keeping a friendly eye on how you are going!

Bl@@dy well!

And thanks for the very complete info on Paulownia - can I use what you have written for the FAQs on my website? If you are going to use it somewhere - you should tell me "no" - I'm quite OK with that.

Michael

[Ramps]

And thanks for the very complete info on Paulownia - can I use what you have written for the FAQs on my website? If you are going to use it somewhere - you should tell me "no" - I'm quite OK with that.

Mik
I'm not intending to use it elsewhere. I only put it up there for the ww/boatmaking community who have been so helpful to me and if it's in a more logical place where people are going to access it, it's fine by me.

Go for it but pls use the latest version where I've fixed the typos.

I'll add to it as I go through the finishing stages but feel free to use that as well.

[Wild Dingo]

Creviate exemptor Ramps!! Creviat exemptor!!! :eek:

Creviat being that he must also publish photos and complete diatribe of the build performance once its complete!! ;) shyte mate you may as well get some free publicity!! :D

Think of it mate! A full several pages devoted to your wee canoe!! :cool: And all you have to do is build it and say how!! :cool: could be a career change in the wind ol son! :eek: :D:D:D gawd sometimes I even crack me up! :D

[Ramps]

ahh yeppp :D ... I need/want the publicity????
I hate wtiting so consider yourselves lucky:p ... I'd prefer to just do but I feel I owe the boards something for all the help and effort those have given me.

[Wild Dingo]

Geeeeeez mate if you feel YOU owe the boards something... IMAGINE what I bloody owe them!!! :eek: 6 years of reading learning gaining knowledge and plans rackin other peoples brains driving them totally troppo... man Id need to write a a friggin book!! :D

[Mattkk]

Just a quick commentary on seats. I made cane seats for my canoe. Each seat took about six hours to cane from beginning to end. It sounds like a long time but it wasn't really. I found that when I got to the glassing and varnishing part of the canoe building that I had time up my sleave to make seats and paddles.

The cane seats are really comfortable. I've been out in the canoe for up to five hours with no issues. If you are making removable seats you can try both cane and a carved seat.

I have sufficient cane left over from my seat building to make at least one seat and at a stretch you might get two out of it. let me know if you want it and I'll send it over.

[Ramps]

The cane seats are really comfortable. I've been out in the canoe for up to five hours with no issues. If you are making removable seats you can try both cane and a carved seat.

I have sufficient cane left over from my seat building to make at least one seat and at a stretch you might get two out of it. let me know if you want it and I'll send it over.

Matt
I did look at your thread and what you did for seats, I also noticed that you had mentioned that you purchased from the US ... was it HH Perkins? The price of the cane isn't too bad but when you double it to get it here :eek:

Was it about $56 delivered? or did you find somewhere cheaper?

Thanks for your offer, I'd be keen to buy your surplus if you feel you don't need to do repairs in the furture, otherwise I'll just have to order some. I was after the plastic cane as It's supposed to look as good (your's does) and meant to last a lot longer than the natural cane. By your reports it's comfy too. I shouldn't need a lot as the seats I'm proposing don't look like they take as much as many of the std seats ... but that's just a visual guess. If I'm buying I should put it up on the boards to see if anyone else is interested as the postage prob won't be that much more if I get double the qty (I say prob ... hmm)

I am interested in making at least the bow seat removable as they are quite shaped and I would like to make it reversable. So as you said it could lead to a more shaped carved wooden "tractor" seat option in the future. If taking others out in the canoe I could give them different options of paddles and seats (paddle is compulsory, seating is optional). How cool is that?:cool:

[Mattkk]

Mate,

Send me a PM to get the deal underway. The cane I have was from HH perkins. It's the plastic cane and looks great. I've got both the chair cane and the binding cane. No need to buy it off me...Just pay for the postage...Can't be more than a few bucks. If you need some instructions on how to cane the seats let me know and I'll put them in with the cane. I will hit you up for a ride in your canoe when its finished and when I'm next in WA though.

[Ramps]

Mate,

Send me a PM to get the deal underway. The cane I have was from HH perkins. It's the plastic cane and looks great. I've got both the chair cane and the binding cane. No need to buy it off me...Just pay for the postage...Can't be more than a few bucks. If you need some instructions on how to cane the seats let me know and I'll put them in with the cane. I will hit you up for a ride in your canoe when its finished and when I'm next in WA though.

Thanks

Can't do any better than that deal better bring a big bag so I can load you up with nice pieces of WA sheoak when you come over.
I've ordered the Green Valley plans fo the seat so I thnk/hope they will have instructions for the weaving process included.

Look forward to a pddle with a fellow canoe builder but I fear the Dingo may get in first!:p

PM awaiting you

[Ramps]

Day 19

Beaut home for half a day with a sick daughter;) (shouldn't be happy about the sickness but an extra half day on the canoe right? wrong ... lawns need mowing, "gardens" need brush cutting. I'll get those done first. 1/2 hr Lawns done right, brushcutter, fill it up (hasn't been used for 18 months or so) starts, you beaudy but every time I accelerate it cuts out, bu99er. Time to check filters, will cleam then later, whack in some newies ... no better. Check spark plug, looks OK, replace anyway... still no better double bu99er. pull apart carby looking for blockages, everything looks great & clean, check dangly thing in fuel tank which also has a filter, tried running it without, still no luck ... time to pick up daughter number 1 from school. hmm... Think it's time to take it in for a service for the first time in over ten years. Successfully lost about 2hrs.

Back from school I abandoned the garden ... had to get some therapy ... for medicinal purposes of course ;)

An hour and a half later and I have carved the slot for the second stem (see pic) and done a fair bit of fairing :rolleyes:

Discovery of the day: The spoke shave does a fantstic job on those flat flexible parts of the hull that seem to bend away from the block plane as well as those more tricky areas with most twist and curve near the stems (see pic below but beware darkside stuff) yeah I know what some of you are saying ... welcome to the real world ... where have you been. I'd really only used the spke shave in those areas where nothing esle worked and I was getting desperate and they do an adequate job ... but after touching up aome areas near the stems I still had a spokeshave in my hand and had a go at one of those flexile flat spots ... boy was I amazed.

Uhh ..Hang on! the "attach files" section is below but no button so you will just have to wait till the guru's have sorted out this glitch ... after editing it's back...

[bitingmidge]

Discovery of the day: The spoke shave does a fantstic job on those flat flexible parts of the hull that seem to bend away from the block plane as well as those more tricky areas with most twist and curve near the stems (see pic below but beware darkside stuff) yeah I know what some of you are saying ... welcome to the real world ... where have you been.
Spoke shaves are just about the nicest tool to use that I can think of. The only reason I keep building stuff with curves is so i can use them more!

P
:D :D :D

[Ramps]

Day 19

OK I heard you dingo.

An entire Saturday

Finished shaping the ends of the strips to fit the stems on. Wasn’t too happy with my efforts but having no alternatives I mixed up my first lot of epoxy to stick the stems on. Doused the strip ends with neat epoxy to fill up the end grain. And waited for it soak in (like the book said).

Paulownia … the end grain doesn’t soak up epoxy (like almost none) like the wrc does.

Well I mixed in the filler and sanding dust that I diligently collected to approximate the colour of the wetted wood (yeah right … I sorta guessed what the epoxy mix was going to end up like when cured and what the timber would look like with 3 coats of epoxy, one layer of glass and at least one layer of varnish !!!!)

Shoved it on the front and back bits and screwed them down until the peanut squirted out all over the place.

Went back to sanding and planing


Day 20

A couple of hours on a Sunday afternoon

Pulled the screws out of the stems, the extreme waxing (blowtorch, paraffin, lotsa drips on the square drive screws before driving them in) worked very well.

More shaping & sanding and got stuck into the stems again shaped up nicely under the planes and spokeshave (had my doubts for a while).

Thinking with a final shaping of the stems and a final sanding that I will be able to start the glassing tomorrow.

[Ramps]

For that inquiry Dingo have another day and a few pics just to keep you up to date.:D

Day 21

A public holiday Monday … bonus day

Well after the final sanding (and a bit of touching up here and there … and a bit more filling) and a bit more final sanding.

I cleaned up the area vacuumed the canoe, vacuumed the floor etc … the watched the wind blow in a bunch more …. Hmm :rolleyes:

Finally the next stage. My lovely wife assisted me to roll out the glass … looking good … I tugged it down my side a little to cover the canoe and asked how much the overhang was on the other side. “It doesn’t cover it” What!!! They sent me 1m wide glass not the 1.4m. $#!+:mad:

Well at least it gives me a chance to clean up and the dress that pine for the neighbour who’s building some shelves.

[steck]

Hi,
I am still watching your progress with awe! - and enjoying the posts.

[Wild Dingo]

1mtr glass instead of 1.4mtr glass? geez mate what are they tryin to do slow you down or somethin?! :D

So you ordered the new replacement glass or what?? Come on been a couple of days now!! You launched yet? Come on mate pull the flamin finger out ;) :p

[Ramps]

1mtr glass instead of 1.4mtr glass? geez mate what are they tryin to do slow you down or somethin?! :D

So you ordered the new replacement glass or what?? Come on been a couple of days now!! You launched yet? Come on mate pull the flamin finger out ;) :p

I think they are ... do you have shares in the Co. ? :p

I'm poking it in the post today and tracking down some 1.4m stuff ... might have to come out of Duck Flat as the closest supplier?? as the woman at boating hardware was telling me they only stock the 1m stuff in 195gsm... hmm

What I can't get over is that I looked at the roll half a dozen times and not once did it click that it was only 1m wide :(

I look at it this way Dingo, at least we'll be able to launch on the same date.:p won't we??? when's your estimated date of launch (EDOL)?

[Wild Dingo]

:D :D :D ROFL!! :D EDL? me? gawd strewth mate Ive no flamin idea!! :D

Okay... I could say in 1 month from today... but that would be a lie... I could say in a couple of months... that may be possible... or I could just say... WHENEVER!! :D

Honest truth of the matter is I have no idea!... I think I would have made a start when you arced up IF I had a dry area large enough to build it in which I dont... my tools taking up all the room in the shed and the missus's crap and stuff cluttering up the seatainer along with the humpyhoochy falling to bits has caused a bit of a covered spacial area problem :o So Im presently only able to do stuff that doesnt take up more than a 3ft sq area :( or can be done on the benches

Now... IF!!! Summer would hurry up and flamin well get here so I had more than a days fine sunshine and fine nights Id definantly have a go... maybe I should buy another one of those carport things from supacheep? I bougth 2 last year but both are nackered cause they dont like wind much sorta got a blown around a tad they did :rolleyes: and now theyre stuffed... but now the weather should be improving maybe I should get anothery?

mmm potentials potentials :cool:

No I dont think I will be starting for at least a month now... I have several "to dos" I have to get done before I buggar of back to the mine and as yet Im unsure when thats going to be but probably in the next week or two three at the most... so that bein the case probably wont start for a month

Mind you... everything bar the glass and epoxy is here... the moulds are ready the building boards in the loft waiting patiently and the timbers stacked and waiting... just me thats not ready... as usual ;)

But its definantly SOON!... had the nipper in the shed with me today rain an all sittin cogitatin without power as always when it rains and the little fella looks contemplatively up at me an says "Oy dad?" Yeah? "when you gonna build another boat dad?" gawd son no bloody idea yer mums got all these other things she wants me to make first... he went quiet again then said "Well... sigh" well what I says "well I really want another boat dad it was fun you know? when you me an Aaron went paddling that time in the estuary in Mandurah" yeah mate it was fun "yeah... sigh... an memba when we went with Brie an a crab got me on the foot? WHAAHOO! that was fun too eh" sure was mate "sigh... yeah Id like another boat I reckon dad" well mate Chrissys not far away what about we wait an see eh? "yeah... sigh" nah dont sigh see I got this mate called Ramps... no dont laugh yer galah! Anyway this fella hes knocked up a canoe in a few weeks so I reckon we will try an beat him eh whaddayareckon sport? "YEAH!!"... so could be closer than either of us think if little Josh has anything to do with it

And since Aaron made the original moulds and helped on the original Tuart canoe build... yeah Tuart what can I say we had a pair of blonde moments :rolleyes: hes gonna want to be in on it... so between the three of us it may yet happen before Chrissy this year :cool:

So yer reckon I should order the glass an epoxy now or what mate? :D

[Ramps]

Go Josh ... put that pressure on before you're too old or too big to fit in the canoe with your dad. :p

Dingo I'd hold off on the purchase off the epoxy and glass for now as the epoxy only has a shelf life of 5 years :D :D no really let me give you an excuse ... hmmm ... let me find the cheapest supplier of 1.4m glass so you don't make the same mistake as me (how's that?).

[KJL38]

I'm very impressed with the speed your canoe has been progressing at. It's given me a lot of encouragement to start building as soon as my shed is up. I would love to have a look at it when you finish.

Have you tried this place in Welshpool for the cloth http://www.fibreglass-resin-sales.com.au/home.html
I don't know if they will have what you want but I've found them very helpful in the past. I have no affiliation with them, just a happy customer.

Kelvin

[Ramps]

Thanks Kelvin
I had forgotten about those guys.

Just called them but they don't stock any over 1 m wide as well (except in the 285 gsm :eek: cloth where they stock up to 1.25m) looks like to Duck flat in SA. :o

[Wild Dingo]

Go Josh ... put that pressure on before you're too old or too big to fit in the canoe with your dad. :p

Yeah hes doin that "When we goin out to the shed dad eh? eh? come on dad NOWS GOOD!" :D bloody larrikin


Dingo I'd hold off on the purchase off the epoxy and glass for now as the epoxy only has a shelf life of 5 years :D :D no really let me give you an excuse ... hmmm ... let me find the cheapest supplier of 1.4m glass so you don't make the same mistake as me (how's that?).

yeah have a go yer mug have a go :rolleyes: 5 years eh? so when they bringin out one that lasts 10 years cause I may just have to wait for that! :D

I will await your headsup mate cheers :cool:

And Kelvin? He bloody well better post a continuing array of pics of the build AND the launch... shyte as hes just down the road he better bloody invite me to the launch!! ;)

[Ramps]

Well good news and bad news

They're out to slow me down ... your fault Dingo, I know it is ... how did you do ... you buy out all the 1.4m wide glass in the state ... yes that's what you did!:(

Well I sent back the 1m glass today and after being told by them that it doesn't come in anything wider I had to correct them ... and they admitted after looking it up that it did but they didn't have any ... nor do they get it. Rang the locals and they were adament that 1.4m cloth wasn't available ... I said it did, thanked them for nothing and phoned the other mob in Perth. they said they were contemplating stocking the wider cloth but didn't have any in stock at the moment ... might be worth giving them a call for future supplies (dingo ... link above that Kelvin posted). Then rang Duck flat in Adelaide who said they'd send it with a courier today ... that's better service.

Also received the Green Valley seat plans today:) (as per midge posted on this thread on the 21st Sep) Wow can't wait to get into them as well ... good thing to do while the epoxy cures (or waiting for the glass to arrive).

Amazing that we can get deliveries from Canada faster than we can things across Oz :eek: Think I remember Bob Willson say something similar only in the last week or so.

[Wild Dingo]

Had a feeling you would be gettin it ex FlatDucks :rolleyes: and I wonder why West Aussie companies are idiots :o

Ive found that more often than not you can order one thing from both US or Canada and from say Queensland and my normal experience is that I will get the US or Canadian things faster than the Queensland one... not necessarily just Queensland either... Aussie post has some serious delivery issues! :mad:

Generally Ive found its a 10 - 13 day turn around ex US... sometimes less best Ive had was 3 days ex Georgia USA!! :eek: blew my socks of that did!! :cool:

When we were in Carnarvon we were waiting for a parcel from said Queensland and after 3 WEEKS we hadnt recieved it we rang them to find out what happened to it... "we will look into it and get back to you"... a week later I rang again (the item had been paid for else I wouldnt have bothered) the girl said to go to "your local post office and pick it up" I asked her to check that it had arrived in Carnarvon post office she said "Oooh Carnarvon? thats near to Midland isnt it?" BLOODY MIDLAND?? geez the steem went through the friggin roof I can tell yer! :mad: So I asked her where she thought Carnarvon was "dont blame me sir it was posted to your Carnarvon address I cant help it if Australia post gets it wrong" Rang Midland PO and "yes theres a parcel here for you sir... hang on a moment this cant be right" and comes back "sorry sir this parcel says Carnarvon is that right?" Yes mate Carnarvon "Weres that sir?" Bloody hell... dimwitted galah didnt even know where it was! Look at the post code mate its north of you "Well would you mind dropping by and picking it up sir? it was about to be returned to the sender" 900 klicks and Im gonna just drop by and pick it up?

aah well... mate can you pm me with the costs etc ex flatducks?

Cheers
Shane

[kiricore]

Hey ramps enjoying reading about your strip build.

I know its too late now, but you could have used the 1m wide and run a lap along the keel line, this way you get double glass along the high wear area. thats what I did on my 18 foot Ulua out rigger i built last year, Glassing the outsides nice and easy wait until the inside. With the convex shape the glass just wants to come off the curves whenever you squegee it. I found wetting the timber out with epoxy and then laying the glass on dry was the best way..

Then all the fit out...... good fun I am still doing little bits and pieces like building a crab claw rig to sail it.

cheers