Confused-frame and panel lid

[Billylad]

:confused: hi all,most of my box lids are made with frame and panel,and the frame is joined with bridle joints. now a professional boxmaker i was talking to,says he only butt joints his frame,only glue ,no biscuits dowells etc.Does anybody else use this method,and would the butt joint last the time,as i said he is a professional:confused:

[ozwinner]

As a professional he is looking for the cheapest way to make stuff.
As a hobbiest you are looking for the best way to make stuff.

I would take the hobbiest stuff all of the time.

You just cant compare the two.

edit: Having said all of that, pva glue is stronger than the timber it holds together.

Al :)

[craigb]

What Al said.

It's pretty quick and easy to butt joint a couple of pieces of timber.

It looks lilke it too for mine.

[bsrlee]

Have to agreee with Ozwinner.

Plain PVA can creep if its kept in a damp place & under pressure, but there are a heap of 'new & improved' PVA type glues out there that offer various degrees of permanence. Under a sudden load - such as being run over or dropped from a height- the wood will fail first.

[AlexS]

While I have seen examples of butt-joints where the glue joint is stronger than the wood, I've seen even more examples where even 'modern' glues have failed in this situation. Do as Al & Craig say - you won't regret it.

[oldbob13]

Billylad
Boxes can be mass produced in China or even made of plastic, but my interest in boxes is to see the skill and craftmanship of the maker as well as the interesting and unusual woods used.
I have seen these butt jointed boxes in the craft galleries and in my view they look second rate.
Sorry if this sound elitist but butt joints just look cheap:D
BobT

[The Big O]

I only use butt joints with pva yellow glue and havent had any problems so far except when I got over zealous with the clamps and bits went everywhere.

[silentC]

A mitred butt joint is the weakest joint around. There is no long grain to long grain gluing surface, no reinforcement, no catering for timber movement. I'm sure that they look great when you first make them but I wonder what they will look like in 10, 20, 50 years time?

But then I suppose it depends on the situation. A lid for a small box will probably be OK because there wont be much movement and probably not much strain on the joint.

Still, it just doesn't sit right with me...

[Wood Borer]

There are so many aspects to a box including:

Selection/matching of timber

Design

Joinery

Finishing

The best box will have the most effort in all categories anything less is a compromise. Some compromises are more acceptable than other compromises however they are still compromises.

If you are selling to a market that is prepared to forfeit excellence for price then make as many compromises as the market will accept but don't pretend to yourself that the product is a work of art even if an ignorant penny pinching customer thinks differently.

You get what you pay for or what effort you put into your work.

[Gumby]

even if an ignorant penny pinching customer thinks differently.


Are there any other sort ? :(

[AlexS]

Are there any other sort ? :(
Yes, and we're all looking for him.:rolleyes:

[Billylad]

Thanks fellas,you are all right,as i would be putting greedy $$ before craftsmanship sometimes the devil leads us astray