Musical Instrument Finishes and cements

[Teds]

Hi all. Strungout pointed me over here. It's nice to know that there are others out there, closer to home.

I am in the process of building a StewMac OOO. Everything I know about wood work and luthery, I have learnt in the last five or so weeks so I might be asking more than answering. Hope you don't mind.

Can anyone suggest to me what I could use to finish an acoustic guitar. Something that is available across the country. I looked at Durobond's 851 Guitar Lacquor but it'll cost me $105.00 in freight to get it to Perth.

Also what cement are you using to put on the bindings etc?

[Phil Mailloux]

I know Mirotone also makes nitro lacquer, you might want to check their webiste or local distributor.

I know a pro builder who uses cement for gluing up those small scale car models you find in hobby shops for his binding.

EDIT: Oh yeah! you also have perry ormsby in Perth who supplies guitar building stuff, you might find the real luthier stuff through him. www.ormsbyguitars.com

[old_picker]

I have found the stewmac water based sanding sealer and guitar lacquer cheap and excellent. The stuff you're talking about is thinners based and is very flammable and toxic. I wouldn't get hung up on nitro finish it aint all its cracked up to be. Its got a pretty high voodoo factor.

Weldon #16 is pretty good for bindings and you can get it from Mulford plastics in keysborough [victora]. tewnac has it as well.

[Paul B]

I'm french polishing my second acoustic guitar at the moment using Ubeaut Hard shellac. Cut it 50/50 with ethanol and it works wonderfully.

That way you don't need any spray gear or fume extraction, not only is nitro cellulose toxic, it's also explosive.

You will need to learn how to french polish tho, but it's not hard to do and is fairly forgiving so if you screw it up it's easy to redo.

On my first guitar I used wattyl satin polyurethane on the neck, I just wiped on a bunch of thin coats with a rag and then rubbed it with 0000 steel wool. Nice and slick.

[Iain]

I'm french polishing my second acoustic guitar at the moment using Ubeaut Hard shellac. Cut it 50/50 with ethanol and it works wonderfully.
Might want to cut it a bit more when the weather warms up as it can get quite tacky when thick, I generally cut it between 3:1 and 5:1 depending upon the surface area and temperature, hate dragging a sticky compound around trying to get an even surface.

[kiwigeo]

I'm french polishing my second acoustic guitar at the moment using Ubeaut Hard shellac. Cut it 50/50 with ethanol and it works wonderfully.

On my first guitar I used wattyl satin polyurethane on the neck, I just wiped on a bunch of thin coats with a rag and then rubbed it with 0000 steel wool. Nice and slick.

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the finishing info. Prior to FPing what do you use for pore filling on rosewood? (assuming youre using this on your acoustic bodies)?

Cheers Martin

[kiwigeo]

Also what cement are you using to put on the bindings etc?

If you're using wooden bindings then Titebond original AR glue is fine.

[Paul B]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the finishing info. Prior to FPing what do you use for pore filling on rosewood? (assuming youre using this on your acoustic bodies)?

Cheers Martin

Hi Martin

I used CA to fill the pores on my first which was rosewood, and epoxy on my second which is tassy blackwood. Don't think I like either of them much, the CA sets up faster than the epoxy but produces lots of fumes when spread thinly over a large surface, and the epoxy is a pain in the ass to sand - gums up the sand paper. The CA shrank over time so some pores are now visible under the finish. I think I probably put too much epoxy on and then had too much to sand off, squeegeeing it on might work better. When I do another rosewood guitar I'll probably use epoxy, but I'll try to use much less.

[Paul B]

Might want to cut it a bit more when the weather warms up as it can get quite tacky when thick, I generally cut it between 3:1 and 5:1 depending upon the surface area and temperature, hate dragging a sticky compound around trying to get an even surface.

I initially tried it straight out of the bottle, but found that it was hard to get an even surface. I didn't realise you could cut it that much. Thanks for the tip.

[JupiterCreek]

On my solidbody instruments I use rattlecans of Miralac semi-gloss during the cooler months and K&H acrylic when the weather's warm.

[dayvo]

Hey Teds
You can get the Weldon 16 Binding Glue as sold by StewMac;)
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Glues,_adhesives/Weld-On_binding_adhesive.html
from:

Mulford Plastics Pty Ltd
21 Pearson Way
Osborne Park WA 6017
Australia
Phone: +61 08 9446 9933
Fax: +61 08 9244 1240

Im going to use some Haymes Paints products on my build (300 Sanding Sealer, 880 gloss Nitrocellulose Lacquer (body & headstock) and 830 satin lacquer (neck))
I will let you all know how I go with them
Regards
dayvo

[old_picker]

Hi Martin

I used CA to fill the pores on my first which was rosewood, and epoxy on my second which is tassy blackwood. Don't think I like either of them much, the CA sets up faster than the epoxy but produces lots of fumes when spread thinly over a large surface, and the epoxy is a pain in the ass to sand - gums up the sand paper. The CA shrank over time so some pores are now visible under the finish. I think I probably put too much epoxy on and then had too much to sand off, squeegeeing it on might work better. When I do another rosewood guitar I'll probably use epoxy, but I'll try to use much less.

I found that timbermate waterbase wood filler is pretty excellent. I filled the last swamp ash tele i did using it. If you ever used swamp ash you'll know how deep the grain pores are. Mix to a slurry, stain it, brush on wipe off gently, set aside to dry then sand gently. If the grain is very open it may take a couple of goes. By the way it us usefull to seal the wood first.

[Teds]

Dayvo - Thankyou very much for the local information, Weldon 16 it is. Thanks everyone for your prompt feedback. I am back on track after being oohh so close to using the totally wrong product. Titan Bond Plus does NOT dry clear as I was promised. Thank goodness for the test run.

[Paul B]

I found that timbermate waterbase wood filler is pretty excellent. I filled the last swamp ash tele i did using it. If you ever used swamp ash you'll know how deep the grain pores are. Mix to a slurry, stain it, brush on wipe off gently, set aside to dry then sand gently. If the grain is very open it may take a couple of goes. By the way it us usefull to seal the wood first.

I bought some of that wood filler, but found it too thick/gritty to use on timbers that have small pores. Maybe I wasn't using it correctly? I just couldn't force it into smallish pores. For something with large pores like swamp ash I expect it would work well.

You said mix into a slurry. What do you mean by this? do you water it down? That might explain something.

[kiwigeo]

Today I received some 4F grade pumice from Lee Valley....time to get started on the FP job on the classical.

Ive glued up some Allied Luthiery opp grade Rosewood into a dummy back to practise on.

Wish me luck!!

[JupiterCreek]

I've used the Timbermate fillers several times, both as a filler and to repair little errors with the router bit. On it's own it's like dry scone dough and doesn't want to stick to anything, but thinned a little bit with water it's great. For filler I brush it on and level off the excess, as suggested by old_picker. For filling gaps I thin it a bit more and mix in some sanding dust from the same timber. As a gap filler it's best to build up a layer at a time, giving the last lot time to dry off a bit. I've found in all cases giving the timber a light rub with a damp rag seems to help it bond. It sands like Spakfilla... very friendly stuff.

[old_picker]

You said mix into a slurry. What do you mean by this? do you water it down? That might explain something.

Yeah, mix it with water till creamy like a good thick waterbase paint, brush it in well. The fines in the mix should fill the pores. wipe off the excess cross the grain with a bunched up into a ball bit of Tshirt

The secret is not to sand it back too aggressively. Take it nice and easy with finish paper say 320.