Sharpening chisels, planer blades and other stuff

[Zaphod]

I have some nice (but not top of the line) chisels and I recently had them sharpened by a mate who owns a Tormek. WOW! What a difference. I am a pretty inexperienced woodworker and I have decided that I also need something to sharpen my chisels. The boss managed to drive one of my Stanley chisels into a nail and I now have some leaverage to buy a sharpening system. I have a waterstone and a diamond plate, but I really want a Tormek. She who must be obeyed will not allow me to buy one - yet.

OK, so I've perused a few places and have found some possibly suitable items. The first one is from Timbecon and is a little more than 250 Bucks:

http://www.timbecon.com.au/details/viking-whetstone-grinder-9996.aspx

Details are sketchy, so I will call them today and get a few more details. Any thoughts about this device?

Gasweld also have an even cheaper one on special this month. Only 99 Bucks. No details yet. I'll call them today. Seems OK. Yeah, I know these guys aren't as good as the Tormek, but for a weekend warrior, they might work?

Any thoughts? Do I really need to buy the Tormek and keep it hidden?

[Zed]

Zaphod do a search in this site for any of the following :

Scary sharp
Sharpening
japanese stones
tormek
sheparrch grinder

and a plethora of options will be made available to you for what is available for sharpening chisels etc... believe me.... - more than you'll wanna read :D

[Ivan in Oz]

G'Day Zaphod..............

Welcome aboard:)

Zaphod....Hmmmm?????:confused:
I'd rather not think about that one:o

Recently in Toowoomba there was a 'Workshop' at the Uni of Southern QLD,
WOW!!
Many names to whom I can now put faces to, saw how easy it is to get a VERY Sharp finish to Chisels and Plane Blades....[Is there a Better term for Plane Blades?]
AND I mean SHARP
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=35324&highlight=Toowoomba

Older Planes and Chisels are now seen by me in a Totaly different Light to what I saw before the Get-to-Gether:D

[eddie the eagle]

Do I really need to buy the Tormek and keep it hidden?

Hi Mr Beeblebrox,

There's more babble than not on this subject.

You don't really need a Tormek. A bench grinder is fine and is all tradies use. (I am one, now teaching school.) All I use is a 6" $80 Total Tools bottom of the line grinder. You adjust the tool rest to an angle that produces the desired bevel on the tool.

Don't force the chisel onto the grindstone, pretend you're just shaving the surface off the stone - it will cut pretty quickly and not overheat - have a bowl of water close by, just in case. The Tormek just avoids the overheating issues and has an idiotproof jig, but is slow.

As far as stones, I use a bit of 2000# wet and dry glued onto a piece of MDF, but I've got waterstones or oilstones there as well - I'll just use the first one I grab - the waterstones cut the quickest and the 2000# cuts slowly but gives the best edge for me - whatever works.

I'd suggest that if it takes more than 2 minutes for a tradie to walk to the grinder, regrind the bevel on a 1" chisel, hone, clean up,pack away and get back to work, they're doing something wrong. I'd set the benchmark a trifle longer for someone that's not on the tools every day, say 5".

Cheers,

eddie

[Bodgy]

....[Is there a Better term for Plane Blades?]
:D

Irons, I believe, mate.

[AlexS]

I learnt on a bench grinder and used one for many years, but I would never go back to using one after using a wet grinder. They are better from the point of view of control & not burning tools. I've just purchased a Scheppach, which seems to be as good as the Tormek and a fair bit cheaper, to replace my trusty Scangrind, which is now for sale. See this link.
Scangrind for sale (http://http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=36630)

[Sprog]

Jet have released their own version of the Tormek.

Jet Wet Stone Sharpener (http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/Shop/index.cfm?navPage=4&iid=6060354)

[buzsaw]

Hi Sprog,

Interesting link. Do you know if they available in Oz yet?

Cheers,

Buz.

[Zaphod]

Thanks to all for your replies. I have read them all and am presently researching the various links provided. Lots to read and I will not be purchasing anything, 'till have have done the requisite leg-work.

Two final (maybe) questions?

I've been advised to consider a Blue Max stone onf a grinder. The proponent made an excellent case for it. Good idea?

One of my mates uses a belt to sharpen his chisels. Seems like a good idea too. Any thoughts?

Again, thanks for all your replies.

[Zaphod]

I learnt on a bench grinder and used one for many years, but I would never go back to using one after using a wet grinder. They are better from the point of view of control & not burning tools. I've just purchased a Scheppach, which seems to be as good as the Tormek and a fair bit cheaper, to replace my trusty Scangrind, which is now for sale. See this link.
Scangrind for sale (http://http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=36630)

Your link appeasrs to be broken. How much are you asking for this beastie?

[Jim Carroll]

They are hoping to have the Jet grinder available for the Melbourne wood show.

[keith53]

G'day Zaphod,

I looked at the Timbecon unit you've linked to at the Brisbane WWW show. After discussing the pros & cons with the sales guy, I opted for an 8" bench grinder which came with two different grades of aluminium oxide wheel for $130. I also bought a jig for about $30. I thought I'd like a Tormek as well, but after doing a bit of practice on the above and hearing the positive comments about the Toowoomba sharpening event, I'm sure that if we can convince Mathew A (Toolin Around) to run a similar gathering on the Sunshine Coast, the gear I've bought will do the job. (hint, hint). Maybe we could call it the Sunshine Coast Sharpening Symposium?:D

I guess the other thing to keep in mind is that often on this forum you see someone solve a problem or find a more economical way of doing something that flys in the face of conventional wisdom. That's one of the reasons I like it so much - that and trawling thru the utter crap that flys around sometimes!! :D

Cheers,
Keith

[Clinton1]

Matt has a Variable Frequency Drive (?), which allowed you to control the frequency of the power before it is delivered to the grinder. Allows you to turn the speed down so that you don't burn the chisels.

Thats my take, Matt can tell you the real story ;)

[Cliff Rogers]

..I've been advised to consider a Blue Max stone onf a grinder. The proponent made an excellent case for it. Good idea?....

I'm going to get one from Gary Pye in my next order.

[Bushmiller]

An added benefit of Matthew's (Toolinaround) system is that he can sharpen planner blades too, so long as they are not tungsten carbide.

His system is certainly worth a second look. Some pictures have been posted on the "Toowoomba Sharpening Demo" post.


Regards
Paul

[mic-d]

I agree you don't need a wet grinder. Like others I just use a low speed bench grinder with an alox wheel from carbatec and a home made jig to hold the tool at the correct angle on the wheel
http://woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=31492&highlight=aluminium+grinder
I have no problem with burning because I install one or two temperature sensors close to the tip of the tool to monitor heat as I grind. With feedback from these I can adjust the pressure on the tool. These temperature sensors are two fingertips, so I have a vested interest in keeping the tool cool - pain! Once I have done the hollow grind on the grinder I switch to 1200 and 6000 waterstones and use a stanley sharpening jig. I also flatten my waterstones with sandpaper on 10mm float glass before a batch of sharpenings.

Cheers
Michael

[Gwhat]

The discussion around sharpening always seems to start at Tormek and move to all the other alternatives. We're haveing a great run at the moment with the Alisam sharpening sleds and DMT Diasharp plates. Paticularly their 8" Extra Extra Coarse, it just about eliminates the need for a grinder. Alisam is a good way of getting the correct angle every time.

Check them out HERE (http://www.woodworksupplies.com.au/category47_1.htm)

Regards

The Woodworker

[SawDustSniffer]

As a carpenter and joiner all i use to sharpen chisels / plane blades is a belt sander with very fine grit , thay dont heat up as quick as a grind stone , dipping in water evey time you see the water boil on the blade ,
With the oil stone ,it's easy to get the right bevel , place the blade on the stone , tilt it up untill the oil "mounds " at the front and thats your angle ,
fine angles are sharper but dull quicker , wide angle blades are still sharp but take longer to dull , sould take 2-3 min max
The biggest problem i see is hollow oil stones , through them away , an oil stone must be flat and true , if the cost of a new oil stone is to much , glue some fine wet and dry sand paper to some thing flat

[gratay]

i just use the veritas mk2 honing system and a bunch of japanese waterstones...800,1200,6000grit and a coarse oil stone to get it happening to start with ....a piece of glass with some different grits for plane soles.....pretty in-expensive

[China]

Zaphod I've been ysing an 8" (200mm) blue type wheel for almost 12 months it's the best stone I have ever used

[soundman]

Oh NO now you've done it zaphod.:eek: :eek:

You've gone & started a sharpening discussion....now every man & his dog will come out and champion their own special method of sharpening.......



You may end up more confused than before:confused: :confused:


Everybody gets a wake up when they see a sharp tool for the first time particularly when its their tool and a little while ago they "thaught it was sharp".

The most important thing to understand is, there are many ways of getting a tool to various levels of sharpness, some of them expensive some of them complicated.... others aren't. Finding what is effective and suitable for you is what matters.

Most of us have tried a variety of methods before settling on what we use now.

there is days of reading on the subject and heaps of opinions and methods.

Looking, reading and chatting is cheap...... wet grinders aren't.

Do a search and have a good look arround, perhaps try some of the cheaper methods.

best of luck

cheers

[derekcohen]

Regardless of how you grind a primary bevel, machine or hand, you will need to hone the the final edge by hand: sandpaper, waterstones, or oil stones. I omit diamond stones as they are not (as yet) fine enough.

I think that it is the grinding of the primary bevel that is best done mechanically.

For preparing blades, chisel or plane, prior to honing on waterstones, I divide all into those that require a flat grind with a microbevel, and those that will receive a hollow grind.

The flat grinds are for BU plane blades, mortice and Japanese chisels. The hollow grinds are for BD plane blades and all other chisels).

For a flat grind I go to a belt sander and for the hollow grind it is a bench grinder.

I use a white Nortons wheel of 60 grit on the grinder. I have not burnt a blade in years. I don't have the patience for a sloew wet grinder. The other side of the high speed grinder is a hard felt wheel. The Veritas grinder tool rest completes the setup. My secret weapon is to use the Tormek Proangle Master to set the tool rest so that I can go directly from it to my waterstones, usually freehand. Freehand isa lot easier than one realises when you have thick blades that are hollow ground (easier than a flat ground blade).

The belt sander uses grits from 80 -1300, but I mainly grind at 80 (lots of metal to remove) or 120 (a smoother finish), then onto 800/1200/8000 waterstones to hone a microbevel using the LV Honing Guide Mk II.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Toolin Around]

[quote=keith53;363314]
G'day Zaphod,



I looked at the Timbecon unit you've linked to at the Brisbane WWW show. After discussing the pros & cons with the sales guy, I opted for an 8" bench grinder which came with two different grades of aluminium oxide wheel for $130. I also bought a jig for about $30. I thought I'd like a Tormek as well, but after doing a bit of practice on the above and hearing the positive comments about the Toowoomba sharpening event, I'm sure that if we can convince Mathew A (Toolin Around) to run a similar gathering on the Sunshine Coast, the gear I've bought will do the job. (hint, hint). Maybe we could call it the Sunshine Coast Sharpening Symposium?:D



I've been thinking about doing that since the gathering in Toowoomba. I didn't feel I had enough time to really get into it, there was so much left unsaid. What do you all think, should we have Sharpening Day Part 2?

Next time someone could bring a video camera and get it recorded.