Should I?

[DarrylF]

Well, my birthday is coming up, and SWMBO is asking what I want. It's a choice between a new machine and another bottle of single malt.

As always, the shopping list is full. I want a jointer, a decent table saw, a good shop vac - but I'm wondering if I should get a lathe.

I've done a little (little) turning in the past - I have an Emco lathe, but at 12" between centres it's kinda small and really intended as a metal lathe. I can't see myself wanting to turn table legs or anything, but I like the idea of being able to turn bowls etc.

My local Bunnies has a couple of ex-demo lathes at the moment, quite cheap. One is a Record with two heavy bars as the bed. The other is a no-name with a cast bed.

I can't see myself justifying spending $2000 setting up, but I'd like to buy reasonable quality if I'm going to do it. I've got a lot to learn about real woodturning obviously. I've still got a lot of furniture on the list to build, but I like the idea of being able to do some turning when I don't feel like other work.

Should I go for a lathe? If so, what would you guys recommend as a good setup for a turning newbie - lathe, Nova chuck?, turning tools etc. One of the two at Bunnies is around $150 - should I get that, spend good money on a chuck & turning tools and upgrade later if I use it enough to justify?

[Red neck]

DarrylF,

About a year ago I walked into ‘bunnies’ with no intention of buying a lathe and walked out with a Record CL2x36. They were asking $1700!!?? but since it was a demo model and minus a spur drive and live centre I got it after haggling for $500. I had picked up a boxed set (6) turning chisels for $35 several months earlier from Carba-tecs ‘flood damaged’ auction.

Must admit that I had been looking at Comet and Nova lathes and also doing the second hand columns having discounted the Record as being a little too agricultural, but bought the above unit to learn on. It sat around my shed until about six months ago when I decided to get serious.

First up I found that chisels require sharpening (I had an 8 inch bench grinder and little skill) so the cheap chisels got a bit of a caning at first but now I can turn out a fair edge. I bought a ‘Heli-grind’ jig system and use it a bit like training wheels. After a while ‘free hand’ is easy and can always fall back on the jig to regrind bevels accurately.

Bought a load of books. Read Mike Darlow and Keith Rowley. All good but can recommend the completely revised and updated ‘Turning Wood’ by Richard Raffan. For finishing you can’t go past Neil’s informative ‘A Polishers Handbook’.

I bought a Nova chuck with standard, spigot and Cole jaws, Also picked up a Vicmarc VM100 with standard and step jaws. Although Darlow and Rowley cover screw chuck, cup chuck and faceplate turning Raffan goes into more detail on the use of scroll chucks. The latter speed up the process of turning bowls and the like. The alternatives are rather pedestrian and I tend to cut to the chase quickly, hence my scroll chuck and jaw collection. (Just lazy I guess.)

The Nova I have is a two lever model whilst the Vicmarc has a ‘T’ bar. The latter is user-friendlier but don’t underestimate the versatility of the basic Nova. I use them both equally.

The Record lathe deserves some mention. It is a surprisingly well made piece of equipment using a bronze bearing. I know most good lathes have roller bearings but the bronze bearing has a 25-year life and requires just a couple of drops of oil before each use. The motor is a British ‘Compton’ and very smooth. I would consider the Record far superior to any of the Asian products.

Finally when turning on the faceplate always wear a full face shield. I bear the mark of Zorro on the forehead after a recent incident involving a loose, spinning, eight-inch MDF disk with a block of Australian native hardwood attached.

RN

PS: Happy birthday!


[This message has been edited by Red neck (edited 18 October 2002).]

[Roly]

Darryl

I can recommend turning as being the most fun you can have standing.

If you like timber, how it looks, how it feels, what you can do with it, give turning a go. Its magnificent and you don't need a BBBL to do it. I started on a little cheap and nasty chinese and found it got me into big trouble cause I couldn't help myself, I had to expand. It' great. can't say nomore.

Roly

[DarrylF]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I had a hunt around on the weekend. Bunnies have a demo model Record - smaller green one with fixed head - discounted to a little under $400, not for me - I want a swivel head I think. They also had the same model you bought Redneck, but had only a demo model that's been there forever, has now been discontinued, and they still want $1,700 for it. My local store is not keen on haggling http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif Might go visit a couple other stores.

Took a trip up to Tool City near Newcastle. They seem to know what they're doing. They sell a couple of cheap Chinese lathes - not for me - and the Teknatool range. They didn't have any Teknatool lathes in stock. They do have a good range of Nova chucks and P&N turning tools. I like the people, so I'll give them a go on chucks etc when the time comes.

The more I look around, the more keen I am on on getting set up. I'm sure it's something I'll enjoy.

As an aside, I mentioned my old Emco in the first post. It's a Unimat 3. Austrian made, German motor, and is a kind of miniature metal/wood combo lathe, with accessories like a saw table setup (60mm blade!). I used it a lot in it's day, but it's been stored for at least 8 years. Fully expected the motor to be dead, but I dragged it out, plugged it in and turned it on - started perfectly first time, still runs like a dream. Can't beat quality.

Any recommendations on brands to look at under $1,000? I like the look of the Jet. The Carbatec seems OK. Any others? I'm figuring getting a lathe with the same thread as say a Teknatool so chucks etc will fit after an eventual upgrade would be a good idea.

Any clues on turning tools? Bunnies have a Record set for a decent price - should I grab that and then pick up a couple P&N for the most common profiles, or should I just bite the bullet and go all P&N?

Any pointers would be appreciated, as always.

[RETIRED]

Gooday.

Emco=fantastic machine. Used a small emcomatic metal lathe for many years. Sold it 20 years ago and it is still going well.

Tools: don't buy sets, you will use some and the others will rust.

My recommendations for a starter set are;

spindle work, 3mm parting tool, 13mm or 20mm spindle gouge and a 20mm or 25mm skew chisel. you could add a roughing gouge if you like but it is not neccessary.

Bowl work, 10mm deep fluted bowl gouge and a 25mm round nose scraper.

all in high speed steel

Get some tuition from someone who knows how to turn or join a club.

Learn how to sharpen tools properly and have fun.

------------------
Ian () Robertson
"We do good turns every day"

[This message has been edited by (edited 21 October 2002).]

[Iain]

I bought a 25mm roughing gouge at the last WWW for $60 from that fine Scottish/Asian bloke McJing.
He has some nice stuff on display at reasonable prices.
I'll let you find his website, he does have one but I don't know it.
And, bunnies are buggers to negotiate with, they just won't play ball unless the goods are buggered or someone has put the wrong item in a throwout bin.
Thats my experience with them anyway.
I did get a 1 metre Webco spirit level in case for $1, it was in a chuck out bin.

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: http://community.webshots.com/user/iain49

[Red neck]

DarrylF,

The Nova chuck (and Vicmarc) comes with an insert to fit your particular lathe. If you upgrade your lathe at a later date just buy new inserts to suit the thread size – about $25 each from memory.

Keep your eye out on the second hand market. I have seen the odd lathe pass through our local papers. Some where good brands – Woodfast, Teknatool 1200’s and 1500’s and occasionally a Vicmarc. Some have included an assortment of chisels and one included several scroll chuck. Probably deceased estates. In most cases the asking price was surprisingly low!

Redneck

[DarrylF]

Redneck,

Since I wrote that post I worked that out - thanks http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif I'm wondering now whether I should get the Nova or the Vicmarc as my first chuck.

I went to take a look at a second hand lathe last weekend actually - on par with my usual experience of used machines I'm afraid http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif It was an OK machine in it's day I guess, but that was a long, long time ago. I just never seem to have any luck, but I'm still looking.

Anyone had any experience with the Woodfast 280L? Seems like a decent machine, and the price isn't too bad - $775 but they are having a sale day this weekend - http://www.toolies.com.au/catalogue/ProductDetails.html?id=9316571129639

Anyone have any other recommendations in the sub $1000 range or thereabouts?

[Red neck]

DarrylF,

I would probably support the Vicmarc because it is Australian made. My reason for buying the Nova was the price – around $150 at the time from Gergory Machinery in Brisbane. I was trying to get excited about turning. I bought the Vicmarc VM100 after I got excited. Both good chucks and both good value for money! On the other hand the Super Nova compares with the Vicmarc VM 100 and is similar in price. I think the Vicmarc jaws have a better dovetail design than the Nova and therefore hold the workpiece a little more securely – personal opinion not backed by scientific analysis!


Redneck

[Tim the Timber Turner]

If you can, compare a brand new Nova and a brand new VM100. Open & close them both, you can soon feel the difference in the quality and the machining tolerances.

No contest in my opinion.

Cheers

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Some days I turns thisaway, somedays I turns thataway and other days I don't turn at all.

[DarrylF]

I'll do that Tim. I've been tending towards the Vicmarc, looking at the range of options etc.

Assuming that I go for the Woodfast 280L or similar, and I'm going to do mostly boxes & bowls (nothing huge), would you go for the VM100 or the VM120 to kick off with?

[rsser]

With the Woodfast's limited swing over the bed, the VM100 would be fine.

Ern

[Tim the Timber Turner]

I agree.

The big Vickmarc would be an overkill on the small Woodfast lathe.

The VM100 will handle bowls up to 300mm, a bit bigger on a platter form. A great little chuck but then I know I'm biased.

Good luck and enjoy it.

Cheers

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Some days I turns thisaway, somedays I turns thataway and other days I don't turn at all.

[DarrylF]

Well, the money is spent, the lathe assembled and the first couple of square things have become round things http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif

I wound up buying a Chinese lathe - identical to the one Carbatec sell. It's 900mm between centres, 300 swing, 10 speed, 3/4hp, 30mmx3.5 thread, No2 morse tapers, swivel head etc. A pretty decent machine for the money, especially at $417.

Picked up an 8" Abbot & Ashby grinder plus a silicon carbide wheel to do the heavier sharpening. I've got a disc/belt sander and that does a nice job of the fine finish.

I went for P&N chisels, picked up the range suggested basically.

I wound up with a Vicmarc VM120 chuck. They didn't have a VM100, and I figured the extra capacity would be useful since I can turn outboard on this lathe. I can pick up a smaller chuck (Nova Compac maybe?) later for small work if need be.

Got it all set up fine, and seem to have managed to get a decent edge on the chisels. Stuck some pine in and sparked it up. Minimal vibration and seems to run nicely.

First piece I turned was a 30cm long piece of 40x40mm pine. Used the Vicmarc and the tailstock. Managed to get it round without too many problems and spent some time screwing around with different chisels & techniques.

Then I screwed a 100x100x100mm piece of pine to the faceplate. About an hour later and I had a very nice small bowl about 80mm round & 40mm deep. I hollowed it out first, shaped the outside, started to form the base & part it off, then sanded it, waxed it and parted it off the rest of the way. I managed to get the walls of the bowl down to around 2mm thick for most of the depth. Under the base is not ideal, but does the job. It finished really nicely with some Gilly Stephensons wax applied with fine steel wool and then polished with a rag on the lathe. Definitely got a lot to learn, but I'm damn proud of my first attempt http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif

I managed to get set up with a reasonable lathe for the money, and good quality accessories & tools, plus the grinder etc for $1,300 all up. I've got to get some decent timber - pine sucks http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif I also need to put an order in for Neil's finishing book and a stock of Shellawax etc.

Thanks for all your help & pointers guys. I'm happy as Larry, and Her Indoors cried when I gave her the bowl - so I guess she's happy too http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif

[Red neck]

DarrylF,

Beats sipping single malt scotch, doesn’t it?

RN

[DarrylF]

Oh I dunno Red - thankfully I have a decent supply in, so I don't have to choose http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif

[JackG]

$1300 would get you a damn good single malt or lots of it http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif

But I must agree with Red Neck the lathe is probably the most enjoyable and durable choice, beats the ties socks jumpers I usually get http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif, have lots of fun.

Jack