New Member, would like advice :)

[Lowey]

Hi there, im a 17 yr old student (i've done basic woodworking at school..but thats it), and i have this project that i've been meaning to start lately, but no-one I know knows anything about wood.. so i figured I'd come here and join the fun :).

Well, what i've been meaning to do is make a (now dont laugh :p) case for my computer out of some fine looking wood.
My main concern at the moment is what wood to use..that wont warp with the heat from the innards of a computer, (possibly same type of situation as amplifyers ect)

if any of you fine people could lend a hand, i would be grateful :)

cheers, Michael

[jow104]

May I be the first to say welcome.

My first thoughts are a cover for a PC that is switched on must be a no no.
Heat & ventilation could be a disaster to your PC. However I might be wrong.
No doubt others will comment re above and suggest native timbers.

[Just George]

Anything you like, it depends on what your budget is and if you can get your hands on some nice timbers. You could put in some breather holes for the hot air to escape but I'm assuming to case would be open when in use so the heat issue might not be as big as you think. You can stain timber if you don't like the light timber which could solve the type of timber to use.
Cheers and have fun with it.

[Lowey]

Thanks for the welcome :)

Yea i figured heat might be a problem (and this might freak some of you out :p) and i was going to add watercooling to the components, as well as heaps of fans. So i dunno.. it will make an awesome experiment though :D

[Rookie]

It's about now that someone normally hunts out this (http://blogga.ru/2005/09/12/wooden_comp/)and this (http://www.extremetech.com/slideshow_viewer/0,1205,l=167088&s=26633&a=167099&po=1,00.asp)from the archives. :cool:

[Lowey]

It's about now that someone normally hunts out this (http://blogga.ru/2005/09/12/wooden_comp/)and this (http://www.extremetech.com/slideshow_viewer/0,1205,l=167088&s=26633&a=167099&po=1,00.asp)from the archives. :cool:

my apologies, and thankyou :)

[Ianab]

Hi Micheal

There are 2 ways you could go.

One is to make a wooden 'cover' for a normal computer. Easy enough, just make sure you keep the cooling vents free and put a door on the front so you can get at the drives.

Otherwise, you can make a wooden case from scratch. This thread shows building one into a wooden desk. Thats what I'm using at the moment.

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=29546

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=26745

My previous machine was a 9" wood and perspex cube. It still runs well too :)

Some pics of it on this thread

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=28037

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=18898

Like the guys have said.. COOLING is the key.
Make sure your design has plenty of fans and vents with no 'dead air' spots around the heat generating parts.

But to your original question.. most softwoods have less shrinkage then hardwoods, so will be less affected by the drying effects of warm computer bits. The Desk is macrocarpa cypress and it's holding up well.
I think the baby PC is Kahikatea (another NZ softwood), but with small pieces like that shrinkage isn't really a problem.

Cheers

Ian

[Lowey]

Thanks heaps Ian
I had thought of cooling, but the dead air spots is something i would've missed.. probly not good :D

nice work on those projects by the way :D

I was imagining a full tower type case with perspex window as well as lights and aluminium, im doubting how the aluminium would look now though, so i might just do the perspex and UV neon look :D

oh and with the timber type - will any decent timber work? or is there some i should specifically avoid? I was leaning towards something with a nice medullary ray pattern or nice grain effect.

cheers, Michael

[Auld Bassoon]

Rookie - you beat me to it :) I must say I like the Japanese one though!

[Ianab]

will any decent timber work? or is there some i should specifically avoid? I was leaning towards something with a nice medullary ray pattern or nice grain effect.


Actually the cheap woods like pine and doug fir, plywood and mdf will give you the least problems :rolleyes: (they just shrink less as they dry)

But as long as you keep the cooling under control and make sure the design allows for any drying movement you should be OK. Just make sure the wood you use is properly dry before you start building.

Cheers

Ian

[Lowey]

Ok awesome, i might try some pine, it can look nice if its finished nice anyway :) I might even stain it :D
oh, and when u say make sure the design allows for any drying movement, what would i do to ensure this? they dont teach me this stuff at school :(

Thanks a lot

Michael

[jow104]

That'll teach you to have a day off!

[Lowey]

:O, i only have days off if im sick..or in the case of today i had to do the QCS test.. (Queesland Core Skills) something to do with my O.P.(or rank..or whatever they call the score u need for uni in all you non queensland states) eligibility :D

Michael

[BobL]

Lowey, Here is a different perspective on your project that I hope you are able to take with good grace since you are young enough that global warming will impact significantly on you before you die. I would hope that you would consider the energy / global warming implications of anything you design and build. Using wood is itself a good thing but building a computer case out of an insulator like wood and then having to use more energy to keep the thing cool by adding lots of fans is not really consistent with energy conservation. It's like telling people they can't use clothes lines to dry clothes in Southern California even though they have more sunshine than they know what to do with. Instead we were forced to use electric clothes dryers!!!

[Wild Dingo]

Welcom Michael :cool:

Theres a heep of info out there and on this board about this subject... aside from the two links above do a search.

Ive been reliably informed... no lets be honest here!! Ive been TOLD in no uncertain circumstances that I must a) build a desk for the computer which is presently taking up a wall sitting on a door on 2 sawhorses (which I want back!) and blocking access to one room (note here I am not a billy goat! and refuse with my bung knee to clamber over doors on sawhorses... man its cold in the living room lately :( ) and 2) that a nice computer case of timber would be the ducks knuts

So Im presently mucking about with drawing designs and such... Im presently thinking of incorporating the box for the hard drive into the desktop... sorta thinking is for 1in slatted (with gaps) sides around it and that would then be open at the fan end which would join to the shelf part of the desk... but then Ive been considering buying a small fan to situate a few inches short of the side of the HD to blow air into the cooling area of the computer... but Ive just read Bobs post and my conservation side kicked in and so that ideas now tossed in the bin... so after all my months of design and mucking about with these ideas Im back to square one... thanks Bob! :p

But a young fella like you shouldnt have too many hassles sorting out something special... just remember the cooling!!

Cheers
Shane

[Lowey]

Thanks Shane
..now i need to go and buy some timber... :D

hey bob.. us little old humans didn't create the global warming "problem" its natural, theres nothing we could do about it, and we'll run out of coal and oil long before the ice caps melt (i'll probably live to see this as well :p), so i dont think the tinly bit of extra power it requires to run the fans is going to matter much.. this computers gunna be a power hungry beast anyway :D

[BobL]

hey bob.. us little old humans didn't create the global warming "problem" its natural, theres nothing we could do about it, and we'll run out of coal and oil long before the ice caps melt (i'll probably live to see this as well :p), so i dont think the tinly bit of extra power it requires to run the fans is going to matter much.. this computers gunna be a power hungry beast anyway :D

Sorry to disagree with you on both counts but unfortunately you have come across someone that really does know what they are talking about. You see, apart from being an amateur woodworker, I am a physicist that does research in the field of energy.

1) My reading of the peer reviewed scientific literature says the consensus amongst the worlds leading scientists in the field of atmospheric sciences is, that we have definitely created greenhouse effect. It's interesting that the majority of scientists that don't believe it generally work for George Bush or coal companies.

2) I find your second point about you not making any difference very disturbing. If everybody thinks like, "oh well this little bit of power is not going to make any difference" this will only make it worse and happen quicker. The ice cap melting and sea levels rising is only one part of the problem. If the changes are too rapid the worlds weather will (is) change too rapidly and Hurricane Katrina will rate as a sea breeze. Many existing forests will not have time to adapt to environmental changes and will simply be destroyed. If things can happen more slowly then at least your children might have some timber around to do woodwork projects with when they are my age, your other choice is to condem them to a stone age.

Leaving all that aside there is simple "smart design" reason for not making a computer case out of wood. You probably already are aware that computers change all the time. The PC case that you make today is unlikely to fit the motherboard of 5 years time and within 10 years the PC will be dead and embedded systems chips will radically change the way we do computing. PC cases should be (and are) made out of something recyclable like plastic or metal. Wooden case PC boxes unfortunately will themselves end up very quickly on the tip (and turn into CO2). I realize the younger generations live in a disposable world but why don't you take a look at some real heritage furniture, study the design and the craftsmanship and ask yourself, "why is this piece is still around"?

My point is someone is going to invest a significant amount of time in a woodwork project they should easily be able to create something that will last for 100 years or more. Smart design would be a desk or table that incoporates your computer but when the PC is dead, the desk is still useful for a generation or two or more?

[Ianab]

Bob

I take you points about power savings etc, but wood is by it's nature a natural recyclable rescource. Even if it ends up recycled into firewood it's not adding any extra carbon that wasn't in the system anyway.

You are right about PCs having a lifespan of maybe 5 years, but recycling them is problematic. Most of them end up in landfill even though they could be recycled. The design of my desk makes it easy to update the standard parts inside, and even if those standards change in the next generation of machines, it's simple to replace the small wooden cradle that holds the components. So I would suggest that my desk / pc is going to be around for quite some time, in various upgraded incarnations. Thats going to use less resouces than replacing complete PCs.

The insulating vs conductive is a bit of a non event though. The average PC uses fans for at least 90% of it's cooling. See how fast one will crash when all the fans stop. There are PCs out there that dont run cooling fans, but they are full of trick heat pipes and large pieces of alloy to dissapate heat. And will set you back over $1000 , just for the BOX. So fans are here to stay, a wooden case doesn't need any more fans than a steel one. But if you are designing your own case you need to think about fan and vent placement, no matter what the case material is.

So.. umm.. what was the point I was trying to make...

I sorta agree with you, I dislike ugly disposable PCs too. But I went down a different line of thought, and built the PC into a desk that I intend to keep. I know that it wont be the same PC in 10 years time, but it will be the same desk, and no matter what new gadgets we end up using, we are probably still going to be sitting at a desk to use them.

Cheers

Ian

[Lowey]

Hmm... why do i pick fights i cant win? Anyway thats my beliefs, and i'll change them when i'm convinced otherwise.. (Please, please dont make this a thread about global warming..) and I'm sorry that i'm not the most enlightened person on the planet...

And about the disposable computer thing, there is no way in hell that if i make this work, im just going to want to ditch it in 5 years. I will keep it for as long as i can, probably adding things, changing things. Is there a reason i cant do this? it may not be exactly the same after 10 years..but it's still wood, and i made it, so i dont mind.

You say make furniture? i can, and probably will. I've made some stools and a coffee table at school, and theres nothing that has convinced me i wont ever again. Plus im staying on campus at uni next year..space might be a tad limited

Now, i fully apologise if any offence has been taken to my "dream" of making my own damn computer case. I asked for help not "OH MY GOD DONT DO THAT" criticism.

[Chris Parks]

I have always wondered why we don't think of different strategies to cool computers. Why don't you build a case with no bottom in it. All the boards etc don't need a base to sit on they use the main board and the back panel. Not putting a base in it and by standing it with good air gap allowing air to flow through the bottom is a good start. Now add a bloody big duct that maybe might be able to be built into the top and has a BIG fan remotely mounted at the other end of the duct would move a heap of air. All the fan motors in the case are themselves creating heat so to get a ducted air system removing the air would be a plus. Also if the duct could be routed to another room or outside etc the fan wouldn't need to be in the room and silence would be golden. Just an idea I have had for a while.

[Lowey]

Hey thats pretty cool, if a tad extravagant, well the next room ducting system anyway :D, the bottomless case idea could be interesting..

The ducting might not work though... because there would be lots of dead air around it, unless im in a windy room or something

Cool ideas anyway :D

[BobL]

In general I agree with your sentiments but there are a couple of things I would like to comment on


Bob

I take you points about power savings etc, but wood is by it's nature a natural recyclable rescource. Even if it ends up recycled into firewood it's not adding any extra carbon that wasn't in the system anyway.

The idea with using wood is to keep as much of it as physical wood, preferably as trees or a long life timber product. Burning it doesn't change the C budget but does change the CO2 budget and adds to the green house effect. The more wood we use and keep as wood the better. Bearing in mind that more than % of all trees (branches roots leaves etc) ends up as CO2. However, instead of clearing land we should be planting even more trees.


You are right about PCs having a lifespan of maybe 5 years, but recycling them is problematic. Most of them end up in landfill even though they could be recycled.Thats going to use less resouces than replacing complete PCs.

SNIP

So fans are here to stay, a wooden case doesn't need any more fans than a steel one. But if you are designing your own case you need to think about fan and vent placement, no matter what the case material is.


Sorry, I disagree. Recycling is currently problematic but we will have to do this sooner or later. In parts of Europe you cannot buy electronics that cannot be recycled.

I also do not believe fans are here to stay. There are MAJOR changes ahead for PCs, the very nature of computing and software. The chip sizes continue to fall and become more flexible, the software we know today will be turned on its head. These PCs will be very low power and small, something like a PDA size gizmo with fold out A4 size screen will eventually see the end of desktop clunkers.



SNIP . . . we are probably still going to be sitting at a desk to use them.


Even here I reluctantly disagree. To illustrate let me relate the following. In 2002 I spent over a grand making a massive computer desk from Jarrah slabs. This desk has a total length of 5.9m by 850 mm deep, filled with cupboards, bookshelves, etc. It was built to hold 3 PCs, laptop, scanner and 2 printers and is a wonderful place to sit.

Then I bought a laptop and wireless network. Suddenly computing changes for me in a BIG way.

Now I only ever sit at the big desk when I print or scan (rare). At other times I use the laptop everywhere else but the big desk. Garden, bed, kitchen table, shed, family room, SWMBO's study, where ever. At work the laptop goes from classroom, to lecture theatres, to labs, travelling, planes, motherinlaws etc. I haven't used a desktop as my main computer since 2002. Sure it's more expensive than a desktop but give it a few years and the prices will be competitive.

[Chris Parks]

The ducting might not work though... because there would be lots of dead air around it, unless im in a windy room or something

Cool ideas anyway :D

I don't quite follow that. If the duct has a big exhaust fan on it it has to flow air and the only place it can get it is from the computer case.

[Lowey]

Oh..yea i see now..never mind me.. i was thinking on a slightly smaller scale, not making the case basically a part of the duct :D.

[Chris Parks]

Want a good way to cool a computer? this is way out of the square. Get a small freezer and bung all the hot bits in it and the CD drives, switches etc can sit outside at the end of their cables which are run through the holes drilled in the side of the freezer and then sealed. Now everyone that's into cooling computers knows that this will lead to condensation and the whole thing will not work, well it will if you evacuate all the air from the freezer and replace it with an inert gas like nitrogen which is dry and has very little moisture. One day I am going to do this.

[Lowey]

Now that would be cool to see :)
You will have to make a custom sealed container to do this properly i assume, If u do this and make it work.. i would love to see the pics :D

I think watercooling will do for me... for now :D

[HandyAndrea]

Want a good way to cool a computer? this is way out of the square. Get a small freezer and bung all the hot bits in it.....


........then add a box on the side, for your sixpack, and you're away, laughing!:)

[AlexS]

I like the idea of making a wooden case, & I'm sure the cooling problems aren't insurmountable.
Back when I was a young bloke, any decent sized computer had a huge amount of plumbing hooked up for water cooling.
Don't think I'd worry too much about the large case becoming out of date - I'm currently still using a 10yo tower, and have no plans to change it anytime soon. Go for it, I say.

[Ianab]

Yeah... lets not get sidetracked and put young Michael off his project ;)

Yes you can build a wooden PC, I've done it, it works fine.

On the subject of recycling, the little wooden cube is probably 75% recycled. From memory I actually bought the system board and DVD drive, the rest was salvaged. The computer parts from old PCs and the wood and plastic were also 'found'. The wood was originally a shelf at my old work, and the plastic was from a printer acoustic hood. (remember those ? :D )
In terms of power used, that machine runs a Via C3 CPU, the WHOLE motherboard draws something like 13 watts of power. Thats mainboard, video AND CPU power in total. Add in the drives, lights, cooling fans (x5) and the whole box is probably drawing around 40 watts. Compare that with a new P4 or AMD cpu, thats draws 70-100 watts - just for the CPU :rolleyes: The flash graphics card in a new PC will draw more than that whole system!

So it's maybe the Greenest PC you will see ;) :D

Bob, the portable with the A4 screen is all very well, will suit some people just great, but I see lots of people wanting 19-21" lcd screens, for watching DVDs, games and maybe even some work stuff occasionally. Laptops are all very well, but impossible to upgrade. In 10 years my wood PC may be on it's 3rd system board, but a laptop will be long gone.. hopefully recycled.. but probably in a landfill :o If they can drop the power draw of the quad Pentium 7 system board down to 20 watts then I can ditch one of the cooing fans :D

As far as the esoteric cooling, umm... there's all sorts of crazy ideas out there, some more practical than others. But big heatsinks and big fans still rule. Using heatpipes or liquid cooling are just ways to get the heat away from the chip and into some big radiator / fan setup.

Anyway .. have a look around online at what other people have done, if you want to get into low power PCs and cool case mods have a look at http://www.mini-itx.com/ They have a PC build into almost every item you can think of... ET, Bender from Futrama, a Cow, a keg... well you name it :rolleyes: Even some very nice wooden cigar boxes :)

Modding PCs should be Fun.. not just to save the planet !!

Cheers

Ian

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I guess 'putas just ain't built as well as they used to be. :rolleyes:

Attached is pic of my old Fido BBS machine; sure it ain't pretty but it wasn't meant to be. Just solid & big enough to hold 7 hard-drives, 2 ethernet cards, several RAM cards, and other similar dood-dads. I'd say it runs as hot, if not hotter, than most modern PC's, yet it ran reliably 24/7 for almost 12 years before I finally pulled the plug... and still boots happily. (I can't bring myself to strip it down for sentimental reasons. :o Pity, I could do with the shed space.)

So long as Michael keeps in mind that their does have to be airflow, particularly over the CPU & GF card, then he probably won't have a problem.

[Lowey]

Thanks fellas :)

I will try and find some timber for this after school tomorrow..maybe.. I suppose I had better put this on hold for a week or two while my major exit exams are coming up .. jeeze I'm almost finished school already? *shivers*

Yea I will make sure that airflow is the number one priority, im thinking extensive use of mesh could be a good plan :D

When i finish this case i will upload pics for everyone to see, and in the meantime i will upload pics of a couple of projects i have made at school :D (in the appropriate board of course :p)

Thanks again

[jow104]

If I lived in n. Qld. I would find and give you a piece of timber and hopefully get you started down the slippery slope.
No doubt you will receive an offer from a more local native!

[Lowey]

Thanks for the gesture :) and yea i'll track down some timber somewhere... soon :D

thanks for all your help fellas :D