Girl makes her first Guitar in Aussie Timbers! [Archive]

myguitar

6th September 2006, 09:56 PM

Mirboo

6th September 2006, 09:59 PM

That's a great looking guitar. Well done.

craigb

6th September 2006, 10:38 PM

Nice looking guitar. Well done.

To answer the poll question, I've made bugger all guitars. :D

I plan to have a go "one day" though. ;)

AlexS

6th September 2006, 11:00 PM

Congratulations- you've made one more guitar than me. Looks great, you've used some great looking timbers.
How long did it take?

fanlee

6th September 2006, 11:53 PM

Really nice. I love the Blackwood.

How does it sound? Can we post mp3's here?

Studley 2436

7th September 2006, 12:07 AM

Lovely Guitar, well done!

I voted to see the results but have never made a guitar and it isn't on the immediate agenda either. My shed is a bit rougher knock it out big and ugly sort of thing.

So I said if I did chances are I would try and hook up with Kiwigeo and get some instruction there.

Studley

kiwigeo

7th September 2006, 12:51 AM

This poll is a bit weird.....the question is "how many guitars have you made". You can only register one guitar under each option. What if youve made more than one guitar by yourself? Am I doing something wrong??

Anyway my guitar making experience - 1 OM steel string made on a guitar making course with Paddy Burgin and Dave Freeman in NZ a few years back. This guitar currently in the possesion of some muso friends who seem to have fallen in love with the thing and dont seem keen on returning the guitar. Three guitars currently under construction are a classical (currently getting a French Polish), a 6 string Dreadnaught with body finished and neck half finished and a matching 12 string Dready which is to soundboard stage. Today I got started on a Tassie Blackwood neck for a 6 string dready made from Aussie woods.

Cheers Martin

kiwigeo

7th September 2006, 12:59 AM

Nice work myguitar, I love the Aussie woods. Some questions if you dont mind:

1. What sort of construction technique did you use? Spanish method on a workboard or were body and neck built seperately and joined with a M and T joint?

2. Have you compared the sound of the King Billy Pine top to tops made from other woods?

3. Is the top arched or is it a flat top?

4. Do you know where Thomas Lloyd did his guitar building course?

5. Any chance of a closeup pic of the rossette. It looks like a wood inlay?

Cheers Martin

toddles

7th September 2006, 01:22 AM

Beautiful - well done!

Did the school recommend different woods for different tonal qualities or anything like that?

dayvo

7th September 2006, 01:39 AM

Wow
Lovely looking guitar. :cool:
I really like fiddleback blackwood
dayvo

myguitar

7th September 2006, 10:13 AM

Thanks to all your responses. I did forget to mention that I do not play guitar!. I have know the Luthier for many years and wanted to do something amazing.. So I did.

Answers to your questions:
I dovetailed the neck to the body.. I used scalloped bracing on the sound board (old martin style).
This particular guitar is small bodied accoustic so it is used for a finger picking style.
It does sound beautiful. T
When you make a guitar you need to play it in. It takes some time but even after 1/2 hr its comes alive.

I hand oiled it with danish oil and a lemon oil only 3 times.
We will oil it again in time to see the changes that occur.
The sanding is very important that you get it right and especially over the top. The treble and bass are made more prominent via the method of sanding. The top is about 2 mm.

The neck was the hardest part. A lot of hand sanding and filing (of course ). It is beautiful to hold. Players have said it has a great feel especially at the base of the neck.
It is a flat top.
The rosette is Black wood as well. I routered it in instead of the usuall rosette. The head stock is the only ring in (European Maple) beautiful none the less.

I will make another soon.

Chris runs this school on normal school holidays and has had about 100 students in the 3 years of actual teaching. His experience is of 15 years. He plays classical and taught himself after attending a course with Carson Crickmore (Aussie). His original workshop was the back bedroom with a heater. Now he has a great workshop at Montsalvat Artist's Property.

Any more questions - happy to respond. :p

kiwigeo

7th September 2006, 10:23 AM

Thanks for the answers to my questions myguitar. You did very well with a dovetail neck joint on your first guitar. I assume you cut the Mortise and tenon with a router and jig? Still a tricky job nonetheless.

Your right about a guitar taking some time to play in....its one of the exciting parts of the guitar building process....next to the first time you string your baby up and hear it sing! You might find the truss rod will need a tiny adjustment within the next 12 months...easy enough to do.

re not playing guitar....not a huge handicap for a luthier. I know of more than one accomplished amateur luthier in the US who doesnt play. I play (classically trained) but not that well.....would rather make guitars than play them.

Cheers Martin

craigb

7th September 2006, 10:41 AM

Any more questions - happy to respond. :p

Why didn't you put your name on the headstock? :p

kiwigeo

7th September 2006, 10:47 AM

Its a funny thing....alot of luthiers just dont like putting their name on the headstock of their guitars. Nothing wrong with doing this...Martin do it and so do a host of other big name guitar manufacturers. I take the approach that without my name on the headstock Im forced to make my guitars that much better so the guitars themselves speak my name.

Just my opinion of course and Im not in it for the money..purely something to keep myself out of SWMBO's hair once I retire.

silentC

7th September 2006, 10:51 AM

Nice looking guitar.

I've never made an accoustic but made a solid body electric about 20 years ago. Body was Queensland Rock Maple and some sort of Ash. I had an article in a guitar magazine as a guide and an old bloke that I met through work helped me out with the woodworking side of things. One of the guys at Maton in Melbourne helped me out over the phone with the electrics. Was a good project.

You should learn to play it. ;)

myguitar

7th September 2006, 11:10 AM

I have actually signed the inside of the guitar. Not noticably big but enough to say I made it. All the students do the same.

I dont have patience to play, yet have found the patience to make a guitar.

There is a jeweller at the site where the school is and he offered a silver name plate. I politely declined!

Kiwigeo your jigs look quite amazing... I will tell chris about the forum. He knows of the Magazine!

:p

namtrak

7th September 2006, 12:05 PM

..........I did forget to mention that I do not play guitar!...........

Of course you don't!!! Like the Chicks on Speed say we don't play guitars (http://www.chicksonspeed.com/tv.html)

kiwigeo

7th September 2006, 01:04 PM

Of course you don't!!! Like the Chicks on Speed say we don't play guitars (http://www.chicksonspeed.com/tv.html)

Hope those chicks on speed dont plan to get into guitar building!!

Harry72

9th September 2006, 01:52 PM

Very nice MG, what grade of strings is it running?

kiwigeo

9th September 2006, 03:36 PM

The sanding is very important that you get it right and especially over the top. The treble and bass are made more prominent via the method of sanding. The top is about 2 mm.

Okay MG....more questions (luthiers are naturally nosey).

Are you saying you sanded the top to final thickness? What are the thicknesses on the bass and treble side of the soundboard? Did you make periphery of soundboard a bit thinner than rest of soundboard? Did Chris introduce you to tap tones?

How did you determine peaks of scallops on braces? Two peaks or three peaks on lower bout braces? if you have any pics of the bracing id be interested to view same. I assume you DID take lots of pics of your first guitar under construction???? Took 1200 pics of my first baby and filled a large notebook with notes and diagrams while building same. The notes are invaluable for future builds.

Jackspira

12th September 2006, 09:47 AM

It looks very fine Myguitar, I really like the maple head! it works good!
Jack

myguitar

13th September 2006, 09:58 AM

Kiwigeo, Sorry for late response. Busy life.
Hand sanding the top I got the base to 2.7mm and the treble to 2.8mm and the sound hole is 3mm.

The bracing is based on a 1935 martin guitar. Scalloped. I dont know too much more about why I just did it!

On the next guitar I will be more studious as the first was just follow instruction. Chris does a luthiers course as well for 3-12 months depending on the student request and the students get more of the deeper why's there!

kiwigeo

13th September 2006, 11:13 AM

Thanks for the info MG.

kman-oz

13th September 2006, 02:13 PM

I have to say I'm in awe of someone who can build an acoustic guitar. To me this qualifies as one of those life experiences you'd tell your grandchildren about, Great work! *insert inspirational classical guitar music here*

I play (classically trained) but not that well.....would rather make guitars than play them.

I was also classically trained, but I was never really inspired to keep it up. Never thought about it before, but I think I'd rather make them and see others get enjotment from them too.

Thanks for opening my eyes MG!

myguitar

13th September 2006, 07:21 PM

Thanks for the response. I only wish i could express how much I really enjoyed making my guitar! Lots of people get to see it daily and they all comment on it... I think mainly because the timbers are STUNNING! Yes that may be screaming but it is a great looking guitar.

Chris has an open day at The School of Guitar Making - this sunday at Monstalvat if your from melbourne come and have a look at it and all the others on display 7 Hillcrest Ave Eltham. 9-5pm... Great to meet other timber crafts people.

You can chat & check out all the timber you like!

Studley 2436

14th September 2006, 11:18 AM

*L* I cant help feeling that I should never even attempt to build a guitar.

Don't know that I am up to it, will be happy tuning japanese planes and making some furniture

Studley

oz tradie

17th September 2006, 12:44 AM

That's fantastic work, myguitar.
I caught your other post on projectguitar.com and found it pretty awe-inspiring.
Was that the one day per week course? and which day/s

cheers,stu

Ramps

18th September 2006, 12:26 AM

Hi MG
Amazing and inspiring
Iv'e always wanted to play classical by I am just as keen to (or maybe more keen to) make ky own guitar.
I have reason to be over in Mlb for extended periods and saw that there is courses run over the Jan period.
What sort of costs were you up for in fees and materials?

kiwigeo

18th September 2006, 12:41 AM

*L* I cant help feeling that I should never even attempt to build a guitar.

Studley

Well have to see what we can do about that :D

myguitar

18th September 2006, 08:53 AM

Thanks guys for your postive feedback on the guitar. I was at the open day for Thomas Lloyd guitars on the weekend and we were flat out. Heaps of people came thru and we had about 4 student guitars on show.

Wonderfull stuff. Those of you in melbourne can go anytime and check it out and watch students on the go in the workshop.

Everyone kept asking me when am I going to learn to play. That may never happen but I know I will make another, I think it will be a nylon string classical next. To be advised :p .

For you guys that enquired about the course, just call Chris on
03 9431 2490. The summer school is M-F for 2 weeks (60-80Hrs). The first two weeks of jan and also the last 2 weeks of jan. It only takes 2 weeks to make one guitar. It is an all aussie timber guitar, finished and with its own hard case. You will love it. You can make a fretless bass, classical or acoustic.

Will post a picture shortly of a new guitar chris just built of 23 different timbers. Its for display only and shows all the timbers that can be used to make a guitar.

It's Mad!

Enjoy

Studley 2436

18th September 2006, 11:20 AM

Well have to see what we can do about that :D

I'd love to come around and see how it is done Kiwi but considering the clutter and lunacy of my shed I don't know that I could get into it without becoming obsessed.

Then I would have to deal with my other obsessions such as fishing furniture making Photography and Golf which is an old one that deserves to be resurected.

Studley

myguitar

18th September 2006, 06:28 PM

Ramps,
The cost of the course is from $2500 to $3500. That includes all aussie timbers, finish, scalloped bracing, deisgn of your own headstock & bridge, hard case. You get class notes and full instruction. It is fully hands on. Only about 1-3 people per class. The Summer school is on special for $2950 ($600 discount). You are located in the hill behind melbourne with plenty of accommodation around. Check out site http://www.montsalvat.com.au this is where the course is held.
MG

Ramps

18th September 2006, 11:10 PM

Ramps,
The cost of the course is from $2500 to $3500. That includes all aussie timbers, finish, scalloped bracing, deisgn of your own headstock & bridge ...
Thanks for that
It gives me a ball park figure.
We will probably be in Mlb not this Christmas but the one after so I will put it in the melting pot and the plans, for the following summer school... coming from WA you have to book that far in advance ... and I'm very familiar with the reputation of montsalvat ... even makes it more appealing.
Ta

kiwigeo

19th September 2006, 04:57 AM

Not intending to hijack this thread but you might give consideration to a course run in New Zealand every few years by Paddy Burgin and Dave Freeman. Next coures is January 2007 and courses are held in Wellington and run for 3 weeks roughly. PM me for details if intersted.

myguitar

19th September 2006, 09:05 AM

Dont worry, I dont think it is hijacking. The broader the experience we all have in life the better.

Also, Chris is going to be part of a report on the 7.30 report ABC soon. They are coming to do a doco on Aust Timbers, players and makers. Slava Gragorian will be part of it as well as Antony field who runs the Guitar Facilty at Vic College of the Arts. They film it this wed up at Chris's workshop with students and Antony playing. Not sure when it will run on T.V. Stay Tunned!

Will send pic of that 23 piece funky guitar soon.

Ramps

19th September 2006, 04:06 PM

Gee we have some late bots and early birds on this forum ... even with the different time zones.

Kiwi, you've got buckley's of me doing a luthier cse over there, cos if I'm over in NZ I'll be chasing my other passion ... fly fishing.

MG
I'd be keen to hear when that doco is going to be aired so when you hear more pls post ... on this thread would be good as I'm now subscribed to it
Ta

kiwigeo

19th September 2006, 10:19 PM

Gee we have some late bots and early birds on this forum ... even with the different time zones.

Kiwi, you've got buckley's of me doing a luthier cse over there, cos if I'm over in NZ I'll be chasing my other passion ... fly fishing.

Normal hours out here....Im on an oil rig out in the Timor Sea and we operate 24/7.

If you do the course in Wellington you wont have time for fly fishing..in fact you wont have much time for anything else as the course runs 6 days a week and up to 10 hours each day....its very intensive.

contrebasse

22nd September 2006, 06:39 PM

Where did you get your King Billy top wood? I was looking for some for my double bass but it was too hard to find ...

kiwigeo

24th September 2006, 09:04 AM

Where did you get your King Billy top wood? I was looking for some for my double bass but it was too hard to find ...

I get most of my Australian tonewoods from Tim Spittle at Australian Tonewoods - http://www.australiantonewoods.com/

If he doesnt have DB sized stock Im sure he'll bust his nuts to find some for you.

Cheers Martin

gratay

24th September 2006, 07:31 PM

MoonShine

7th October 2006, 11:11 PM

Just noticed this thread and would just like to add, congrats, well done.
Wow!...nothing more satisfying than to know you have put it together yourself:) Very nice indeed.

I've recently bought a secondhand old Takamine style acoustic/electric guitar in a hockshop for $25, broken neck etc., and just about had to strip the whole baby down to restore it to its former glory. This is also satisfying but while I was doing the repairs thought, wouldn't it be great to build one from scratch?.
I have all the timbers veneers and such, just need some motivation to set it all up in the shed. Now that will take something like a chilli pepper up my a...:eek:
Or tomorrow when Bathurst is on, C4 explosive under the lounge:rolleyes: :D

Serge Poirier

12th October 2006, 10:21 PM

Beautiful guitar, love the woods you used, congrats on a job well done!:)

Paul B

13th October 2006, 01:34 PM

G'day Serge mate,

Good to see you here:D

Paul

kiwigeo

17th October 2006, 11:38 AM

Beautiful guitar, love the woods you used, congrats on a job well done!:)

Gidday Serge, great to see you in here.

Cheers Martin

Dougie

22nd October 2006, 09:15 PM

Fantastic Guitar,
Want to make one one day for myself
I am just finishing a shopfitting and joinery course at tafe and i am thinking when i finish i will have a go
do you have any suggestions as to where the best place to start would be
I have played guitars for about 15 years now
once again very well done

gratay

22nd October 2006, 10:20 PM

Did anyone check out the actual guitars on their stand.
what did you think?
I just ran out of time and missed checking them out...but ran into an old workmate from maton who had a guitar entered in the "create from a crate" competition..... completely made from an old pallet and actually sounded and played quite well...don't know how he went in the competition....

Flowboy

23rd October 2006, 07:50 AM

Hi Kiwigeo,

Did anyone actually see the "girl" or the "Guitar"? I walked past the stand and had a quick look at about 11:00 Saturday, but didn't play any. No sign of her or the guitar. What I did see was not very inspiring and I actually preferred the Maton entry. The pics we saw here were of a guitar several levels higher in quality (IMHO) than those on display. Also, given that I can buy a Martin HD28 kit for about A$1-2K, I'm not sure I can see where A$3K went into those on display. Since I have 4 guitars at present and have had several others (Martins, Matons, Gibsons, Fenders) I feel some qualification in giving a humble opinion.

Regards

Rob

gratay

23rd October 2006, 08:42 AM

Just to clarify,
The guitar entered in the "create from a crate" exhibition was not a maton entry but by an ex maton employee .

RETIRED

23rd October 2006, 01:10 PM

Shedhand

23rd October 2006, 01:38 PM

Down in Eltham, Melbourne, Victoria I just finished my first guitar at a School of Guitar Making. Great experience. I have no previous woodworking skills or machinery skills (router, ban saw etc).

I used all aust timbers, Fiddle back blackwood back and side, King Billy Top, QLD maple neck, Jarrah and Houn pine bindings, Gidgi fret board and Bridge. Just beautiful.

I am happy to respond to questions regarding my experience. Yes I am a Chick. :p

The school is www.thomaslloydguitars.com (http://www.thomaslloydguitars.com) . 9431 2490 Chris Wynne is the Luthier and Teacher.Beautiful work MG. Being from Tasmania i reckon blackwood (excellent firewood btw) is an ugly timber. I've never liked it. But then again I have 2 Ovations (plastic backed)....yeah yeah I know. They're both over 30 years old and sound brilliant. One of my brothers has 4 Acoustic Matons, 1 Fender Strat and a Washburn, another owns a 6 string Woodtone (http://www.woodtoneguitars.com.au/)and a custom made 10 String Woodtone. Click on the Unofficial Woodtone Site on the opening screen and you will go to my brother's UK Woodtone site. They both love playing my Ovations....:cool:
I'm gonna have a go at making an Acoustic one day...;)

Flowboy

23rd October 2006, 03:13 PM

Thanks .

When I spoke to Chris Wynne on the phone last week, to get an answer to a question Fiona received from a Forum member and should have replied to,he seemed a genuine person, I just wasn't impressed with what I saw and would have liked to see the one shown here and be sure it was actually done in what is effectively 6 days. That is all, no vitriol, no packdrill.

Regards

Rob

oz tradie

23rd October 2006, 08:25 PM

I called by the stand and got to see 'the guitar', Fiona and Chris as well.
Extremely nice person to chat to and very passionate about guitar building.:) She's definitely motivated to build more acoustics of differing varieties. And good on her ,too. I've got to say I've contemplated doing that course, but it's alot of bikkies to pull out of the tin. Must wait for the next tatts winfall,:D

cheers, Stu

kiwigeo

24th October 2006, 05:12 AM

Thanks .

...I just wasn't impressed with what I saw and would have liked to see the one shown here and be sure it was actually done in what is effectively 6 days. That is all, no vitriol, no packdrill.

Regards

Rob

I calculated out hours it takes for me to knock up a basic guitar without any fancy inlays...about 200 hours, and thats only if I get a continuos chunk of time off the rigs to concentrate on the task. I certainly couldnt get a guitar belted out iin 6 days. If sides were prebent and top and back sanded to close to final thickness that would save some time. On alot of courses some of the "difficult" tasks are done by the tutor before course starts. Nothing wrong with this...it keeps costs down.

kiwigeo

24th October 2006, 05:14 AM

Looking at the poll in this thread it looks like Im the only one who voted "with a tutor".

MG hasnt filled out the poll......Fiona????:D

gratay

24th October 2006, 07:44 AM

I guess i would have to say "with a tutor" as well because when i started at Maton I had no experience at all and got taught and work along side and pick the brains of guys who have been there for 20 years or so..

Although this was a great experience and i feel comfortable with a lot of the tasks needed to build a guitar ...doesn't really prepare me for building one from scratch though...still a lot to learn

kiwigeo

24th October 2006, 10:20 AM

Grant,

Your time at Maton gives you a definite edge over rank amateurs like myself. Im envious..would love to spend a few months working at Maton.

myguitar

25th October 2006, 09:49 AM

Good Morning you bunch of Rascals!

This is quite funny! Your all chatting without me. I have been busy with the wood working show and have not had time to reply... so here it is. :D

As you know I was seen and spoken to at the show and yes My Guitar and I were on the stand. My small bodied accoustic was at the end of the stand near the TV. Most people that saw it were quite impressed.
2 people from Maton that we know, also The guy (andy?) who entered the Packing create guitar - cedar and other timbers (who won in his catageroy), and yes used to work at maton. Also Phil Crickmore!!! yes we know Phil and he was quite impressed!, Several players who are prof and will keep names quiet have also seen and played my guitar. Antony Field is one of them and quite impressed with the Sound. He is waiting to see how my classical will come out! :D They think sound is most important the the obvious visual wood working skills later.

Also the course is 60-80 hours which is 10 classes at 6 hours. (Not 6 days)
We are all novices at this craft.
Chris has been building for 18 yrs and took Phil Crickmore's first ever guitar making class.
The 3K is becuase it is all solid timber and high selection grade. Only 3 in a class (usually 1-2) mid week and 3 weekends so you get one on one with chris, you do get good quality strings, machine heads, case etc.

I am fine with all this banter. Just wanted you to know that I am very excited that I was able to make one after all these years of knowing chris and happy to help him in his dream to find and spread this craft to others.

Chris has had 3 students go thru the course that now have found work at Maton and Cole Clark. Even Barry at Wood Tone is excited by what Chris is doing.

I hope you enjoy my response. I lenjoyed meeting some fellow forum guys, they were genuinely keen to see the guitar.

Flowboy you can come up anytime to the workshop and meet chris and see the SAID guitar for your perusal, and have a cuppa with chris and the students. Theres nothing to hide in the workshop.

P.S. The two classicals that were on the stand had just come back from 1 year in Italy. Yes they had some usage marks on them, they were part of a Landscape series of aussie blackwood and Black Heart Sass. to show off in Italy. They went very well. The acoustic bass was a big hit in italy too.

Must away. I look forward to seeing more works and I know some other students are keen to post here cos the feedback is great and inspiring to keep going.

Cheers Fiona :p

Flowboy

25th October 2006, 10:09 AM

Spoke to Chris, seemed a nice guy.
Still maintain the guitar you showed is higher quality than those I saw.
No need to thank me for answering a question you were asked and didn't repond to.
Never said there was anything fishy in the class
60 hrs eqautes to 6 days in my life, possibly even the full 80.
Don't need to visit, don't need a cuppa either.
Just unimpressed with the way you handled this.
All the name dropping you want to use to flatter yourselves and potential students really has no effect on me.

Rob

myguitar

25th October 2006, 10:51 AM

Thanks Rob.

The guitar is real. Sorry your not happy with the response. Just wanted to let you know we are all learning and everyone is welcome to thier opinions. I am enthusiatic and its great when others in the field make positive comments on your work.

I have re-read the forum link and I am not sure what the questions was that I have not answered and to who?

Let me know who it was and I will get back to them.

Fiona :rolleyes:

Shedhand

25th October 2006, 10:55 AM

For the life of me I can't work out what's going on in this thread. There seems to be an undercurrent of bad feeling being generated by some people over whether the guitar featured in the original post was built in the time frame claimed by Fiona and even whether its her work. I know from experience that if I'm into an exiting project its head down bum up until I'm finished. I can recall when I started work on a pair of repro Queen Anne bed-side tables at 7.00 on a Saturday morning and completed them - except for varnish - the following tuesday at 3.00 in the morning. All I had in those days was a Stanley RB10 plane, an old tenon saw, a 3/8 makita drill, a jig saw, a couple of cheapo brazilian chisels and a hammer. I ran into the couple I made them for the other day and they are still n use and llook as good as when I made them 30 years ago.:)
I think its fantastic that a non-player is so obviously excited about her achievement. If she is motivated enough to shell out 3 grand to go one on one to build an instrument then good on her. The detractors can sit in the corner and sulk.:mad:
Good on you Fiona. Greenie for you. ;)

kiwigeo

25th October 2006, 11:04 AM

$3000 for a guitar building course is not unreasonable. If we assign $500 for materials then that leaves $2500 for tutorage. $2500 divided by 80 hours comes to an hourly rate of $31.25. Quite reasonable when you consider you pay $45 plus an hour for a plumber to fix a tap washer in your laundry.

I did a 3 week course in NZ a few years back which cost me $2500 for the course. Materials were fairly good quality (AA spruce tops) and sides were pre-bent and tops glued up and rough sanded close to final thickness...a fair bit of work involved in both tasks on part of tutors. The tutors were two luthiers with years of experience...Paddy Burgin a well known Wellington luthier with a track record and Dave Freeman a Canadian luthier who runs his own luthiery school in Sakatchewan as well as being an active builder of fine instruments.

The course had 12 people and ran for 3 weeks, 6 days a week and most days wed be in the workshop for at least 9 hours each day. That equates to roughly 200 hours (some days were 10 hour days).

60 to 80 hours to build a guitar in a class of 3 with one tutor is not impossible. On the course I did there were 12 people and 2 tutors...1 tutor per 6 students. In a class of 12 you're going at pace of the slowest students.

Just my ten cents worth

myguitar

25th October 2006, 11:14 AM

Hi Kiwigeo,

Yes thats for the quick hr rate calculation. We had to do all the work, absoulutely nothing was done for us ( in this level course).

Looking forward to making a classical or now accoustic bass next year.

I also posted in the Events area (Did not think anyone would give replies obviously while I was away they all got very excited - as have I)

All good

Fiona :)

Shedhand

25th October 2006, 11:14 AM

"..you pay $45 plus an hour for a plumber to fix a tap washer in your laundry"

I paid 2 builders 55 bucks an hour each to shoot nails into framing timber....could have hired the gun and done it myself. <shrugs> Its all relative I guess.

gratay

25th October 2006, 11:34 AM

Grant,

Your time at Maton gives you a definite edge over rank amateurs like myself. Im envious..would love to spend a few months working at Maton.
Martin, I don't know about that. ..Although I did have a lot of opportunities to do lots of different tasks over the 4 years i was there.....and to do certain procedures repeatitively and quickly. There is alot of stuff i have not done at all..
Its certainly guitar making on speed.....like you said before 200 hours for one of your non fancy ones ....where as i think we would be working somewhere around 10 hours or less for basic model......but a CNC is roughing necks and making and slotting fingerboards.....

To give you an idea...when i was in assembly.....my job was to fit necks, radius F/B ,plane the fall-a-way, glue on fingerboards ,fret the neck ready for dressing, shape the neck and final sand neck ready for paint, cut slots in the face for any piezo system and output jack, fit and glue in nut...and we were expected to complete 5 guitars a day...which was guitar making at a rapid rate of knots..... and in there somewhere you had to keep your tools sharp ....you get it down though .sometimes i could fit a dovetail neck in less than 5 minutes others would take 40 minutes of frustration to get a tight fit with the right angle....you had one eye on the clock .which could be quite stressful..you knew exactly where you were supposed to be and it was a race to get to certain tools before the other assemblers otherwise you'd have to wait.....which there was no time for ...

In the prep department i started in we used to start the week on a 100 grit hard belt sander truing up the solid timber bodies (not ply) to prepare for cutting the the binding channel which involved lots of different routers and jigs because of the many models . Then we bend all the binding and bind the guitars ...then scrape the binding down ...then knock the binding down on the face and backs on a slack belt sander....then do any abalone inlays and backstrips and sand that down....we'd also cut all the dovetails in the necks and bodies ready for assembly.and then if thats not enough we'd have to final sand all the guitars from the previous week that we'd sent to the assembly department ready for paint shop...3 of us on a good week sometimes would do 100-120 guitars.

Now ....I've just spent 2 weeks making an outside mold and its still not ready.....
so there is a lot of stuff i have never done like finishing which is the one thing that seems so far removed from anything i know.....i know nothing about bracing....or carving a neck without half of it being done by computer routers....i've never bent sides .....or made the body for that matter...

sorry for the long story on basically saying I'm envious of the guys that can do it from start to finish thats the goal

Flowboy

25th October 2006, 12:06 PM

The question was under the other thread you were using and was about what booth number you were on So much to do.... Not much point in answering him now.
I have never said the guitar was not real, just that the pictures I saw showed a better quality unit than I would expect from 60 hours of construction. If I understand you correctly, this was made totally by you, which means it is not represenatative of what you said was incorporated in the course you've been selling..(sorry enthusiastic about.)
Last comment, I've got a real world to find

gratay

25th October 2006, 08:55 PM

Hey Fiona,

I was just looking at the guitar making site and was wondering who is "Thomas Lloyd" ?
cheers

hatemondays

25th October 2006, 11:02 PM

Had to step off my lurkers box to say hi and compliment the guitar you made ....Having seen it up close at the wood show....well it is a very nice piece of work. I walked up to the stand whilst you were taking questions from a bunch of young 11-14 yr olds on the saturday and I have to say your enthusiasm and patience with the kids was exceptional.

kiwigeo

26th October 2006, 07:09 AM

Hey Fiona,

I was just looking at the guitar making site and was wondering who is "Thomas Lloyd" ?
cheers

Think Fiona already answered this one..I recall asking the same question a while back. I think Lloyd was a student of Phil Carson-Crickmoore in Melbourne. Fiona will correct me if Im wrong. Phil runs a guitar building school down at Williamstown in Melbourne.

gratay

26th October 2006, 09:11 AM

Ok...thanks martin,
I really like carson - crickmores work as well...beautiful guitars
I have 2 friends that play crickmores ...ones got an om style and one has an archtop ...both sound amazing

myguitar

26th October 2006, 09:41 AM

Thanks guys for the feedback. Yeah the school kids were like vultures. You can tell the ones who play electric they charge in and ask loads of questions and there are quite a few who actually are busting to make an acoustic. The lollie bowl on the stand was like bees to a honey pot.

Thomas Lloyd is a family name(sentinmental value) Chris Wynne is the luthier. Phil Carson Crickmore was the person that chris did his first work of art with ( hee hee ). He still has the guitar and it is still holding together!

I still dont quite get it that I actually made my guitar but other students have said the same thing. It is such an amazing experience and not being a player I dont get reminded enought that I made it.

Chris keeps it and plays it. Looking forward to next years adventure!

:p

Flowboy

27th October 2006, 06:12 AM

This is the scourge of Melbourne speaking,

I have spoken to Chris Wynne, regarding the history of Fiona's guitar and he has satisfied my concerns.
Therefore, I wish to say the following,
It is one helluva guitar, beautiful timbers and excellent finish. It is a tribute to Fiona's ability as a student and wood worker and also to Chris' ability as a tutor and Luthier. I am only sorry that I did not get play it.
An excellent, tasteful, unit created in amazing time.
Well done Fiona.

Regards,

Rob

kiwigeo

27th October 2006, 08:51 AM

Good to see you got things sorted there Rob. Was getting a bit lost with some of your posts.

Shedhand

27th October 2006, 09:39 AM

Good onya Bob...;)

myguitar

27th October 2006, 09:43 AM

Thankyou Rob for taking the time to chat with chris. I am sure he was very polite in giving you the info you needed. Sorry you had to go to that degree and I could not support your enquiries.

I only wished you had come into the stand and had a chat. Several other woodies did and told me thier (code) names just to catch up and of course check out what other students had done. as well.

All good. Brian d is another student on projectguitar.com that is posting a great report on what and how he is making his guitar. Lots of pics and running comentary. He is making a classical in blackheart sassafrass. Arrrrh! (Pirate noise)

:D