Fat wheels for grinders.

[Cliff Rogers]

Just in case the obvious isn't.
I modified my 8" grinder to take a fat wheel & I took some pics for anybody who may be interested.
1. normal skinny wheel grinder before attack.
2. pull the side cover off & undo the retaining bolt & remove the old wheel.
3. use the cover as a template on a scrap piece of MDF for the outside line.
4. use a grinding wheel as a template on the scrap piece of MDF for the inside line.
5. touch up the lines with a thick felt pen remembering to draw on the inside of the outside line & the outside of the inside line. :confused: (Where is Outback when you need him.???? :D )

[Cliff Rogers]

the next bit.

6. cut around the line remembering to stay on the inside of the outside line & the outside of the inside line. :confused: (Outback, I need your help here. :D )
7. clamp the cut out spacer to the cover & drill through the holes in the cover to make holes in the spacer.
8. slam some crude 25mm roofing screws through it with a hex head driver.

Job done. :D

[journeyman Mick]

Cliff,
what's next? Mag wheels and wide rubber for the car? Sunraysias and monster mudder tyres for the old grey ghost? :D You hoon!:p

Mick

[Cliff Rogers]

.... You hoon!:p

Mick
:rolleyes: http://www.ubeaut.biz/beat_deadhorse.gif

[IanW]

FAT wheels? FAT WHEELS? This obesity thing is getting too much!

You didn't explain to us - whajawannadothatfor???

:confused:

[Honorary Bloke]

Cliff,

Kewl. I think I'll have a go at that. How you gonna' slow it down? Or not.:confused:

[Cliff Rogers]

FAT wheels? ....
You didn't explain to us - whajawannadothatfor??? :confused:
I use them for turning tools. The Blu-Max is the latest fad.


..How you gonna' slow it down? Or not.:confused:
Not....no need to... the blue wheel is made out of aluminiun oxide, 54 grit with J-bond honeycomb construction, this allows air to pass through the wheel, resulting in the tool being considerably cooler than with a conventional wheel during the grind.

The white wheel on the other end is aluminium oxide 60 Grit, & before the blue on came along, was considered the best option to sharpen turning tools.

There is also a pink wheel that is 80 Grit & if I didn't already have the white wheel, I have it on one end & the blue one on the other.

[IanW]

Hi Cliff,
It was the width I was asking about. I sort of intuitively think wider wheels should be better, but have trouble keeping my 25mm wheel as true as I'd like - it seems to get a bit lopsided, no matter how carefully I dress it.

Been reading about the blue wheels and wondering. Getting a white wheel many years ago was such a revelation, & it's said going blue is another great leap forward.

Please give us your thoughts once you've given it a good workout.
Cheers,

[scooter]

Hi Cliff,
It was the width I was asking about. I sort of intuitively think wider wheels should be better, but have trouble keeping my 25mm wheel as true as I'd like - it seems to get a bit lopsided, no matter how carefully I dress it.

Been reading about the blue wheels and wondering. Getting a white wheel many years ago was such a revelation, & it's said going blue is another great leap forward.

Please give us your thoughts once you've given it a good workout.
Cheers,

Ian, I have the same prob dressing the wide wheels on my grinder.

I have a single point diamond dresser. I read somewhere that they should give the best wheel surface, but I wonder if the t bar type diamond dressers would be better?


Cheers...............Sean

[Auld Bassoon]

I also have a single point wheel dresser, but I put a jubilee clamp on its shaft such that the tip just touches the deepest "rut" in the wheel and the clamp is behind but touching the guide (which I make sure is perpendicular to the wheel's surface) - then w awhizz or two and a nice flat wheel face is presented...

[scooter]

Thanks steve, I have done pretty much the same thing but results are all over the place.


Cheers...............Sean

[IanW]

Hmmm, part of my problem may be that I'm still using an old-fashioned star-wheel dresser. Orright, stop falling about laughing, I'm older than many (most?) of you, and entitled to be a bit of a Luddite. :p

So looks like a diamond dresser is wot's the go? Sounds like a good thing to put one on the Chrissy wish-list.......

Cheers,

[Cliff Rogers]

I use an old course wheel held flat on the rest & run it across the grinder while it is going to square off the running wheel, the I give it a hit with the star wheel to sharpen it.
Using a courser wheel to flaten it works fine but it also has the side affect of dulling the grinding points a bit.
The star wheel smashes the wheel surface to expose new sharp grinding grit.
Try it, heaps cheaper than a diamond dresser. ;)

[IanW]

Thanks Cliff - sounds like my kind of solution - I've got a cheap coarse stone that will do nicely - I'll give it a whirl.
Cheers,

[sea dragon]

I also have a single point wheel dresser, but I put a jubilee clamp on its shaft such that the tip just touches the deepest "rut" in the wheel and the clamp is behind but touching the guide (which I make sure is perpendicular to the wheel's surface) - then w awhizz or two and a nice flat wheel face is presented...
Steve,
I have genuinely read this three times and admit to being envious of the way in which Scooter, Cliff and Ian W all blithely have understood what you said and responded appropriately.:eek:
Ever been afraid of saying something and making a fool of yourself? That is the way I feel about what you have said.
I am sure that it is relevant to know what you meant, but unfortunately you have said it in a way that assumes an understanding I do not posess.

As Pauline Hanson would have said, "PLEASE EXPLAIN?" I do want to understand.:o :o

[journeyman Mick]

Sea Dragon,
I note that Steve isn't on line at the moment so I'll try to explain. The jubilee clamp (hose clamp) is fastened around the shaft of the dresser in order to act as a guide. It's set to the deepest gouge in the wheel and rides against the edge of the toolrest. Assuming the toolrest is square to the wheel's shaft then dressing the wheel until the clamp rides hard against the entire face of the tool rest will ensure that the wheel is true.

Mick

[Cliff Rogers]

Thanks for the Greenies blokes. :D

[sea dragon]

Sea Dragon,
I note that Steve isn't on line at the moment so I'll try to explain. The jubilee clamp (hose clamp) is fastened around the shaft of the dresser in order to act as a guide. It's set to the deepest gouge in the wheel and rides against the edge of the toolrest. Assuming the toolrest is square to the wheel's shaft then dressing the wheel until the clamp rides hard against the entire face of the tool rest will ensure that the wheel is true.

Mick
Thanks, Mick. I actually understandthat. Much appreciated.

[scooter]

Steve,
I have genuinely read this three times and admit to being envious of the way in which Scooter, Cliff and Ian W ...

See that boys, Scooter with a capital S. :D

'Bout time I woz afforded that level of respect ;) :rolleyes:


Mick, description well supplied :)


Cheers................Sean

[Cliff Rogers]

.... Scooter with a capital S. :D

'Bout time I woz afforded that level of respect ;) :rolleyes:
.......

Wot are you on about? :confused:
You (with a capital "Y") called yourself that. :D

[scooter]

Fair Comment Cliff Rogers Timber Hoarder :D

Bloody Capitalists... ;)

[rsser]

Hmm, my local tool supplies place wants a lot more for a star wheel dresser than a diamond one, and I think you need both. With rough treatment the diamond pointed thing will coarsen up the wheel but not much.

btw, if your wheel is still running out of round then maybe you need to look at the bushes or washer.

[bennylaird]

Looks useful Clifton, did you consider going for a rewind on the motor to compensate for the extra load induced due to surface drag of the rotating surface? Perhaps a change in value of the starter cap as well, you need to consider all this mate, don't want to create problems later?

[Cliff Rogers]

Only thing that needs rewinding around here is you Benjamin. ;)

[bennylaird]

Click! Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmm Click!

Looks useful Clifton, did you consider going for a rewind on the motor to compensate for the extra load induced due to surface drag of the rotating surface? Perhaps a change in value of the starter cap as well, you need to consider all this mate, don't want to create problems later?


Click! Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmm Click!


Looks useful Clifton, did you consider going for a rewind on the motor to compensate for the extra load induced due to surface drag of the rotating surface? Perhaps a change in value of the starter cap as well, you need to consider all this mate, don't want to create problems later?

[Cliff Rogers]

Click! Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmm http://www.ubeaut.biz/smilebash.gif SWAT! :p

[bennylaird]

Clunnnnnnk! Brrrrwwwwrrrrrrrrwwwrrrrrwwwwwrrrrrmmmmwwwmmmmmm Crunch!


Looooooooooooooooks ussssssefulllllllllll shhhhhhhhst l Cliftvvvvvvvvvvvvvvssssssssssson, did you conwonka winka er going for a rewind o drrrrrrrrrrr n the motor to compensate fcompensateor compensatethe extra load induced due to surface chugga chugga starter cap as well, you ........................................................................

[Cliff Rogers]

Clunnnnnnk! Brrrrwwwwrrrrrrrrwwwrrrrrwwwwwrrrrrmmmmwwwmmmmmm Crunch! http://www.ubeaut.biz/machinegun.gifhttp://www.ubeaut.biz/offwall.gif

[bennylaird]

SSSShhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

it?

[Ashore]

http://www.ubeaut.biz/machinegun.gifhttp://www.ubeaut.biz/offwall.gif

And not even FRY day.:p

[Cliff Rogers]

http://www.ubeaut.biz/ecomcity.gif SSSShhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhttp://www.ubeaut.biz/baby.gif http://www.ubeaut.biz/claps.gif

[Mirboo]

The industrial grade 8" Abbott & Ashby bench grinder (http://www.jwross.com.au/catalogue/prodetails_body.php?prod=10383&page=1) has 50mm wide guards and the Blu-Max (http://www.cws.au.com/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_product_details?category_id=1107144917&product_id=1107369831) wheels are 40mm wide. Based purely on these measurements you'd think that a Blu-Max wheel would fit onto an 8" Abbott & Ashby grinder without having to do any modifications. Has anyone here done it?

[rsser]

My grinder is an A&A 8" v. similar to what's pictured in your link and the guards might be wide enough but the nut might foul them depending on the depth of recess in the wheel.

[DJ’s Timber]

Ern the depth of the recess is made so that the thickness is the same as a normal wheel. So your nut will still tighten up roughly to the same spot.

[rsser]

Thanks DJ.

Over to you Cliffy.

[Cliff Rogers]

Thanks DJ.

Over to you Cliffy.

Ta, yeap, what he said....
I have a fat white one & a fat blue one & the recess is the same as a standard wheel.

[Zed]

cliffy all good etc...

question :

rev's v's balance between 2 diff sized/wieghted wheels v's lopsidedness v's bearing wear v's uncontrolled spinning v's shattered wheels = broken cliffy ? Issue ?

Ta.

[Cliff Rogers]

I'll check the weight on those wheels.... first thing after Christmas... I promise. :D

They are only half as wide again as the originals & since there is a recess in the extra width, it wouldn't add 50% more weight.

The blue one is very open grained so is most likely lighter than the original grey wheel.
They are much nicer stones than the original grey crap that comes with it so there is less vibration while it is running.

I seriously doubt that the Makita grinder that I have fitted them to is built that close to the margin that the bit of extra weight that I'm adding will cause any problems.

( I will check one day, honest.... next time I'm changing wheels or bearings :p )

[Cliff Rogers]

:bump:

I have some more to add, I have ordered an 80grit pink wheel to replace the 60 grit white wheel that is getting a bit ratty & has lost some of it's diameter.
When it arrives, I'll knock all the covers off & weigh all the wheels, including the originals that I haven't chucked out.

In the mean time, I have made some mods to the sharpening jigs.

I have a Hiturn, pictures here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showpost.php?p=355601&postcount=21), & mounts for it to go in front of both wheels.

I also have a Unijig 5, more pictures here (link to unijig now gone missing?), but it only has one mount so I have bought some steel to make up a new mount. (2 the same actually)

I got a bit of 25mm SHS about 500mm long & a bit of 20mm SHS about 900mm long.
They are stainless steel ('cos you won't find offcuts that small at the steel merchants) & cost a total of $17.

I hacked them both in half & since I don't have a way of welding anything, (let alone SS), I drilled them straight through one side & out the other with a 5mm bit.

Note on drilling SS. (This also works very well with all steel)
Centre punch the marks first.
Use a sharp bit.
Use a low speed.
Use lubricate.
Secure the work piece firmly.
Use a firm feed pressure.

I then enlarged the holes on one side to take the head of the screw & counter sunk the holes on the inside to allow the bugle head screws to sink into it & only protrude slightly (You can see it in the pictures below.)

For a locking screw, I had some 25mm long 6x1mm bugle head allen drive machine screws & a 6x1 mm taper for chuck jaw mods so I drilled a 5.5mm hole in the side of the casing piece & taped it out.
The hole only has about 1.5 full threads in it but it is strong enough to hold the sliding insert in place.

1. Shows the component parts with the old mount on the right.
2. Shows them slide together with the old one on the right & the tool holder added to the pic.
3. Shows the screw heads up the casing tube. It doesn't mater that the protrude a bit 'cos the 20mm is a loose fit inside the 25mm.
4. Shows how I used another of the 25mm 6x1mm screws taped through the end of the sliding bar as a pivot point. I'll see if I can get a nut to go on it to stop if from vibrating loose. I may just stick a dob of araldite on it too.

[Cliff Rogers]

To change the jig mounts meant taking the grinder off the base.
Since I always use my grinder sitting on a workmate, I added a 'cleat' to the bottom of the platform to grip it in the workmate.

1. Grinder removed, you can see where the old jig used to sit. Position for new casing marked out & hole hacked in Ali angle & spacer on the right side to allow for the sliding bar. The Ali Angle & spacer are for mounting the Hiturn when it is to be used.

2. New 'cleat' held on the bottom of the platform with a couple of batten screws.

3. Platform in positing showing how the new cleat holds it in the workmate.

[Cliff Rogers]

More pics to come once the new wheel arrives.

In the mean time, for anybody who stumbles in here wondering what this is all about, there are several threads about fingernail jigs & similar below.

All worth a look. :2tsup:

http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=10062
http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=36030
http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=36178
http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=47046
http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=51792
http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=54676

[Cliff Rogers]

I went looking for the missing Unijig website, it seems that they have disappeared now.

While I was googling around, I found this (http://www6.cyanide.com.au/~woodwork/showthread.php?t=53) in the archives. :D

[scooter]

. :D Stirrer :D

[Cliff Rogers]

I found some other old stuff too.... :rolleyes:
Unfortunately, the links to the pics have long since ceased to function. :D

[Frank&Earnest]

cliffy all good etc...

question :

rev's v's balance between 2 diff sized/wieghted wheels v's lopsidedness v's bearing wear
Yes, it will end that way, but might take quite a while with home use
v's uncontrolled spinning v's shattered wheels = broken cliffy ? Issue ?
Only if Cliff can't recognise the sound of worn bearings:rolleyes:
Ta.
My pleasure:D

[zelk]

:bump:

I have some more to add, I have ordered an 80grit pink wheel to replace the 60 grit white wheel that is getting a bit ratty & has lost some of it's diameter.
When it arrives, I'll knock all the covers off & weigh all the wheels, including the originals that I haven't chucked out.


Hi Cliff,
I looked into the Blu-max wheels and the salesperson claims they could be used for pretty well everything, do you agree? I notice you're getting a pink wheel, will it be the same thickness to balance things? What would you sharpen drill bits and plane blades with? Would you go as far as sharpening (ie coarsely) japanese chisels with either of the wheels?
regards,
Zelk

[Cliff Rogers]

G'day,

The blue wheel runs cool & at about 54 grit it can remove lots of steel in a hurry for shaping or repairing a damaged tool without burning it, but... the 56 grit leaves grooves in the bevel.
It can be used to 'touch up' a dull turning tool 'cos most turners (not all) don't care about the groves in the bevel.

The pink wheel is the same size but will be 80 grit to give a finer finish on the bevel.

For my turning tools, I intend to use both wheels, blue first, pink next & then I'll hone the cutting edge with a handheld diamond hone.

This is why I want the same jig mounts on both wheels so I can quickly go from course to fine(r).

You could use the same system to shape &/or repair other tools as well & then progress to water or oil stones to finish the job.

I also have a Tormek slow water wheel & it does a very good job but is far too slow for an impatient turner. :D

[zelk]

Thanks Cliff,
Has the pink wheel superseded the white? I have heard that there are green wheels as well, any idea what they are for?
Zelk

[Cliff Rogers]

Has the pink wheel superseded the white?

If you beleive the blurb it has.



heard that there are green wheels as well, any idea what they are for?


mentioned somewhere, I can't find the thread now.

I understand that they are for hard metal.

The colours are not the be all end all, I think Soundman pointed it out a while back.

You need to know, what the wheel is made of, & what grit it is & the colour doesn't always govern this, it is just a guide.

I buy my wheels from Gary Pye.
Timbecon also has the Blue ones but they are cheaper from Gary.

[rsser]

FWIW I found the 80 grit pink wheel removed metal fast but clogged up fast compared to the 80 grit white. I assume that the bond is harder.

Using it with carbon steel chisels and plane irons was pretty slow. I now do these on a 40mm Bluemax which has an almost honeycomb texture. The grind marks don't bother me as the tool goes from the grinder to diamond stones for the secondary bevel.

Is the Bluemax worth double an 80 grit white wheel? Not in my experience (not counting the difference between 40 and 25mm widths, and that is worth something).

(And green is for TCT I think).

[zelk]

FWIW I found the 80 grit pink wheel removed metal fast but clogged up fast compared to the 80 grit white. I assume that the bond is harder.

Using it with carbon steel chisels and plane irons was pretty slow. I now do these on a 40mm Bluemax which has an almost honeycomb texture. The grind marks don't bother me as the tool goes from the grinder to diamond stones for the secondary bevel.

Is the Bluemax worth double an 80 grit white wheel? Not in my experience (not counting the difference between 40 and 25mm widths, and that is worth something).

(And green is for TCT I think).

Hi Ern,
what stone would you prefer to use for sharpening drill bits?
Zelk

[rsser]

Zelk, had good results on the 80 white .... on the side (tsk, I know) with one of those cheap jigs. Didn't try with the pink.

Jig couldn't cope with small bits though, around 3/16" and less.

[Cliff Rogers]

Mail has arrived. :2tsup:
(Actually arrived yesterday but we were too late to pick it up from the post office)

As a matter of interest Ern, where did you get your pink wheel from?

Pic of wheel & a couple of bits of HHS to play with for tricky little hollowing jobs.

[Cliff Rogers]

Just weighed wheels, the old grey wheel that was on there was 1.7kg, the new pink wheel is 2.2kg so 500grams heavier.

I'll weight the white wheel when I pull it off & I have another unused grey wheel in the shed in Cairns so I'll grab it & weigh it the next time I go past that way.

[rsser]

GPW Cliff.

Do the wheels at either end need to balance approximately?

[Cliff Rogers]

I ran mine with a fat wheel one end & a skinny one the other for a couple of years without a problem.
It has had fat wheels each end for a year now but it doesn't get used all day every day.

Is that what you meant or did you mean the static balance?

If I spin it by hand, it doesn't stop in the same place each time.

I also think it vibrated more with the older grey wheels on it.

[Cliff Rogers]

Back again. I have made the swap over from the white 60 grit wheel to the pink 80grit one & I am happy with the results.

The new/unused fine grey wheel that came with the grinder new weighs 1.75 Kg & the fat white wheel that I have been using for a couple of years now weighs 2.15 Kg.

I've made a few minor tweeks but nothing worth a picture yet.