Harp number 2

[RichardL]

Hi folks
thought I'd post a pic of my latest effort, a Shepherd harp made using Musicmakers plans. It doesn't sound anything like the bigger 34 string harp I made earlier but is a bit more portable! Made from off-cuts of maple from the 1st harp, birch ply soundboard and an old mahogany bedhead from a junk shop.

I was intending to put sharping levers on it but I don't much care for the sound of this one so it probably won't get played much. Handy paperweight though:o . The bigger Regency sounds great so it isn't a fair comparison.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Pity about the sound, it certainly looks the part. :) I think I prefer the sleeker lines of this one to the other.

A very nice paper-weight indeed! :D

[Doughboy]

they both look a million bucks!!!!!!

Well done

Pete

[Harry72]

Sure makes a nice ornament!
Nice work Richard.

[Wild Dingo]

Loverly job Richard would make a sweet pressy for someone not that musically alligned as to know the sounds not as sweet as it should be or wants something to put in the parlor or hallway
Really nice mate :cool:

[old_picker]

Interested on your ideas why it doesn't sound so good.
Perhaps your ears have become coloured by the rich sound of the bigger harp.

Has any one else played it??
Could it be used for experimentation?
Electric harp perhaps??

[RichardL]

Thanks for all the feedback folks.

My only real experience with harps has been listening and playing, well, learning to play, larger harps, so I am not entirely sure what a shepherd harp should sound like. My feeling is it sounds more like a ukelele than a harp.

It was fun to make and I learned a few new things along the way, so not a waste of time. I built it because the larger harp is too big to easily transport around but there is an enormous difference in the quality of the sound. I guess the soundbox and the area of soundboard just crates a fuller richer sound.

Here is a photo comparing the size of the 2 harps. Actually, the difference is bigger than apears in the photo.

[woodsprite]

Gee, they are both fabulous looking harps! Great work. My daughter has been playing the harp for 6 years (just turned 14) and just saw these pics and said it was time I made her one! Probably right. we go to a harpers weekend once a year, sort of near Ballarat, and there are shepherds harps there - their sound is a bit more like a uke and less like a harp - I think it is do to with the smaller sound box as much as anything.

Well done - how about a mid sized one next? Daughter's harp stands about 1.2 metres high and sounds beautiful - made in Melbourne.

Keep up the wonderful work - and I reckon sticking a small pick-up on it might just give you a realy pleasant sound.
Jeff

[RichardL]

Gee, they are both fabulous looking harps! Great work. My daughter has been playing the harp for 6 years (just turned 14) and just saw these pics and said it was time I made her one! Probably right. we go to a harpers weekend once a year, sort of near Ballarat, and there are shepherds harps there - their sound is a bit more like a uke and less like a harp - I think it is do to with the smaller sound box as much as anything.

Well done - how about a mid sized one next? Daughter's harp stands about 1.2 metres high and sounds beautiful - made in Melbourne.

Keep up the wonderful work - and I reckon sticking a small pick-up on it might just give you a realy pleasant sound.
Jeff

Hi Jeff

Thanks for the encouragement. Yes, I wish I had gone for a slightly bigger model, I did look at a plan for a limerick which had a bit bigger soundboard so would probably have sounded much better, never mind.

If you want to make one, the Regency is pretty nice sounding and was good for a beginner like me, but it is really heavy.

There are also bits I would reinforce if I was making another and it was suggested to me to definately go with the 5 ply neck which is a departure from the plan and certainly increased the time it took me to build.

I was wondering about an electric harp. Do away with the soundboard and use a solid tonewood with pickups in it. Could invent an interesting new instrument. In the end theough, I guess electric guitars do all that and only need 6 strings! I may try it with the Shepherd at some stage.

I'm a bit harped-out so the 'next one' may be a while away. I wouldn't make another shepherd. On the other hand, it was made from leftovers and cost a grand total of $100:) . There are also only so many harps you can fit in the lounge!

[ElizaLeahy]

I'm only starting here and I haven't even built my first harp yet (gathering tools with each pay cheque!) but one thing that can make a smaller harp sound dull is if the soundboard is too thick? Just throwing out my first thought here.

[Malibu]

It looks like a great job on both harps. I know nothing of harps and I gather that size makes a difference, but what about wood quality/density? I didn't know they had a sound box (makes sense though) and that you've used a ply soundboard. Would a different soundboard material be any difference to the sound?

[ElizaLeahy]

It looks like a great job on both harps. I know nothing of harps and I gather that size makes a difference, but what about wood quality/density? I didn't know they had a sound box (makes sense though) and that you've used a ply soundboard. Would a different soundboard material be any difference to the sound?

Yes, yay, I can answer one! If you are stringing the harp with wire it needs a hardwood panel on the front of the soundbox. If you are stringing with nylon or gut you can use a ply or a different wood, and it should be thinner. All harps need to be strong, the tension put on that soundboard is amazing. If you build a harp and it sounds "dull" then the thickness of the box is one thing to look at, and the thickness of the soundboard is another.

[ElizaLeahy]

Mind you, all my information is theoretical so far. I'll be more then thrilled if my harps look like that and don't explode when I tighten the strings!

[kiwigeo]

Hi Richard,

Im not a harp builder but if it was a guitar you were building, using ply for the soundboard would definitely affect the sound. A ply soundboard will be as strong as a brick wall but it will also be as rigid as a brick wall and the instrument will sound dead.

If you want to improve the sound of your instrument Id look at the soundboard construction.

Cheers Martin

[donpbk]

How great is this! I'm looking for a group for making harps and here is one ready made. And even from the same company. I have bought the hardware pack and plans for making the Limerick harp from MusicMakers. They sent a walnut back by mistake, but they are sending the ordered one, in cherry, already.
My question is this: I now have a free walnut back, and I hate to waste wood, so I'm thinking about making a 'practice' piece using that back and some wood I already have. I have some old walnut and purpleheart lumber that would look good together. I could laminate up what I needed for the frame from that.
Originally I wanted to make a harp using curly cherry- very expensive- so maybe a practice piece is a good idea? Any suggestions welcome. . . Donna Menke

[RichardL]

Hi Folks

hadn't picked up that the thread had continued.

Re the ply, the stuff I used was 6 ply, 3 mm thick Finnish birch which is the stuff recommended in the plan. It is strong but still gives a pretty good sound on the bigger instrument. My disappointment I think is purely due to the size of the Shepherd harp. Having said that I took it to my kids' school and used it as a demo on a talk on my woodwork hobby. They seemed to think it soundeed fine!

I gather that using a tapered spruce soundboard would improve things but they are tricky for a novice like me and are prone to splitting. I compared my bigger harp with a professionally made one and thought they both sounded good.

Wood quality is very important. I avoided knots or any defect that could weaken the neck and pillar and so far it hasn't imploded. Maple is good and strong but Cherry or Walnut or even Mahogany are also OK. I was told that a 5 ply laminated neck would be more reliable than a 2 or 3 ply, especially on bigger harps with wire bass strings.

Can't really answer on the Limerick extra back. The back is the easiest bit so I don't know if it worth usinga nice bit of walnut as a practice piece. Good luck with your harp anyway!

Make sure you double check the measurements on the plan. I found a couple of errors on my shepherd harp plans. I think the Limerick will sound better - just that much bigger.

[donpbk]

Richard-
First disappointment today when I started to copy off the plans. The dimensions do not match the actual plans. they suggested I dry out the paper in the oven, but that did not help. Now it looks like I'll have to redraw all the plans to match the dimensions given on the plans. After all, I need it to match the soundboard and back I bought from them.
I've decided to make the first harp by laminating walnut with some purpleheart or padauk. I have a good supply of these boards and it will look nice with the walnut back. I like the idea of making two- with the first to make sure everything fits/works correctly.
What finish did you use on your harp? Donna Menke

[RichardL]

Richard-
First disappointment today when I started to copy off the plans. The dimensions do not match the actual plans. they suggested I dry out the paper in the oven, but that did not help. Now it looks like I'll have to redraw all the plans to match the dimensions given on the plans. After all, I need it to match the soundboard and back I bought from them.
I've decided to make the first harp by laminating walnut with some purpleheart or padauk. I have a good supply of these boards and it will look nice with the walnut back. I like the idea of making two- with the first to make sure everything fits/works correctly.
What finish did you use on your harp? Donna Menke

Hi Donna

yep, I had the same problem. The best solution I found (and cheaper than posting the plans back to the US from NZ) was to go to my local Xerox copy place and get them to make full sized copies but stretching the image in which ever direction was necessary by the % the plans were out. It is pretty easy these days with digital copiers. It costs a few bucks but gives you an accurate plan from which to copy the neck and pillar. I didn't get it exactly right but within a few mm, which makes very little difference to how it all fits together.

I didn't bother working from the drawings for the soundbox, just used the dimensions given. The neck and pillar are the only parts that need to be copied from the plans.

We have a relatively limited supply of hard woods here in NZ and I'm always green with envy over what can be obtained in other countries.

I used clear shellac and Briwax applied with 000 steel wool.

[RichardL]

Just looked on your web site - lovely carving!

[donpbk]

Thank you, Richard. Everything on my site was fun to make. I don't work on anything I don't like to do. Keeps it fun and interesting.
Thanks also for the advice on the plans. I'm glad I'm not the only one with the problem. I asked the fellow there if this was a common problem and he kinda skirted the issue with babble about the humidity affecting the paper- hmmmm, not that much!
It will be less effort for me to just redraw the plans to proper dimensions. He did say to have a copy place reduce the plan for the soundboard at least, so that the holes are drilled exactly right. I guess that is quite critical.
Anyhow- going to work on the Emily carving today and paint on the scarlet macaw for a friend who has developed tremors. Then- I will sort through my timbers to see what I have to work with and run them through the planer as necessary to get them ready for laminating.
btw- we do have nice woods available here- but a lot of them are not North American timbers. Padauk and purpleheart are from either Africa or South America. I've seen some lovely items made from your she-oak and your other native woods. Heck, you would probably envy us our mesquite- that we use for firewood and barbecue! Donna

[RichardL]

Both the plans I had from Music makers had the actual measurements for the holes in the soundboard which I used rather than copying of the plan. As mentioned, i only traced off the plan for the curved bits. It is important to get the holes in the neck and soundboard in the right place otherwise the strings won't be parallel or spaced correctly.

Incidentally, if you are using any wire strings, I'd use brass plated steel rather than solids brass soundboard eyelets (if that is what is specified on the plan). The solid brass eyelets I used split on the bass octave and I had to replace them which was a pain as I had epoxied them in. You han get them from http://dragonwhispers.com/

[donpbk]

Hi Richard-
I ordered nylon strings. I figured that would give me a mellower tone and be easier on my fingers. Boy, did I have fun on that dragonwhispers site with their interactive harp. That was so cool I ran out to get hubby off the pastures to look at it. He thought it was amazing too.
Maybe I should have the plans shrunk professionally. I surely would be irritated if I made some part the wrong size and things didn't fit. I really think they should send the plans ready to go. It is irritating to have to travel 70 miles to get the plans fixed. Thank you for all the information. Donna

[Gra]

heavanly:D :U

Well done

[bcp]

Hi.

If your harp is sounding more like a ukele, i'm wondering about your string tension. Harps don't really release the harmonics - which is what gives them that sweetness - until you reach certain levels towards their breaking points. Who did the string calculations?

Brett

[donpbk]

Hmmm- no mention of ukulele here so I'm guessing that was an error.
It did serve to remind me about this forum though and let anyone here know that the harp did get finished and I've been enjoying trying to learn it. For a complete step-by-step look at the process, including my many trials and tribulations, look here: http://harpmaking.blogspot.com/
If you make it all the way to the end you can see a short video of me playing my harp as soon as the finish was dry. It will hurt your ears, but I'm better now- not much better, but a little.:U

[Ocker]

You didn't post any pics of your regency harp
I'm about to build a 36 string harp to robinsons plans because my wife origionally had a Kempster 30 string which fitted across backseat of holden but sold it when she got a forestworks 36 which she could not lift on herown and needs van to transport. Back to your problem the sound board is always a trade off between strength and sound a strong soundboard does not vibrate and sound comes from thoes vibrations

[dadovfor]

http://harpmaking.blogspot.com/

Is this the one you were interested in?

[Ocker]

G'Day dadovfor
I love the artwork on your sound board with the endless knot going round the string holes if you don't mind I would like to do something similar
Cheers Ocker

[dadovfor]

G'day Ocker

That's not my web-site ... I'm not remotely near that level of talent. But I figured it might be the site you were looking for.

I'd go ahead with your idea ... imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

:2tsup: