Les pauls, Help?

[jimi_lp]

Hey, I was wondering if someone could tell me how to carve the top of a les paul correctly without expensive tools, and also, could someone tell me how to get the neck angle right without having the bridge attached? thanks

[kiwigeo]

Im an acoustic builder but the way I check for correct neck rake is to lay a straight edge up the fretboard and see how high it lies at bridge position. I woulodnt think thered be a huge amount of neck rake on an electric but Im sure someone more experienced with same will provide some input.

[kiwigeo]

Okay Im wrong...Les Pauls have up to 4 to 5 degrees of rake on the necks. Quite a bit but when you take into consideration curve of top and how high the fretboard appears to sit above the guitar body its probably about right. On my acoustic steel strings theres rarely more than 1.5 degrees of rake on my necks...the exact figure dpends on how square the front of the body is and how much arch I have in the top (typically 25' radius). The Les Paul obviously has a tighter arch in its top.


See this link for discussion on neck rake.

http://www.gibsoncustom.com/cgi-bin/toast.asp?sub=show&action=posts&fid=7&tid=34619

[old_picker]

Les paul top can be carved with a router.
You will need the full size profiles and a jig that will allow you to route the top in sections going towards the outside.

You finish up by using gouges, curved chisels, tiny planes and scrapers. Work till you get the top to fit the profiles.

You will need a detailed set of plans which you can buy from MIMF in the US. The neck angle, profiles etc will all be explained in the plan.

By the way a les paul is a pretty demanding piece.
Have you completed any other projects? If not I would suggest a Tele is an excellent 1st project. The body to neck join is way simple compared to the necke rake angle and tenon set neck style of the LP. If you want a paulish kind of sound use, mahogany/maple slabs for the body and a mahogany tele neck. Use a couple of duncan vintage buckers and and a strat hardtail bridge or maybe a schaller roller bridge [no stringthrough holes required]. You will have an awesome guitar,

[dayvo]

Hey jimi_lp
Welcome to the forum
What sort of tools (power and hand) do you have access to?
Going back a few months I had the same dilemma but I found a tutorial on Project Guitar that helped
http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=16098
I used a router and did mine in a similar fashion to the authors May 24 post
I didnt make the jig (I will though for any future builds) but did it freehand with the router, then sanded out the terraces with 80grit paper
Patience is the key
Check out the .pdf. It is a guideline on how the top is carved
I carved the top and then sorted out my neck angle
I hope this is of some help to you
dayvo

[jimi_lp]

I don't know if this is possible, but I noticed that gibsons carve the tops with blades that follow a wheel, does anyone know if there is something similar to this that you can buy? or does anyone know if this would be easy to make, obviously a trimmed down version, like...manually roll the wheel
thanks

[Phil Mailloux]

I doubt very much that making yourself a piece of machinery would be very usefull, feasable and/or cheap just for one guitar. Make the top like everyone else out there with a router and you'll be set.

[kiwigeo]

Use finger planes. When you finish the Les Paul well get you onto making an archtop. Theres an acoustic builder inside every electric guitar builder!! :D

[jimi_lp]

I doubt very much that making yourself a piece of machinery would be very usefull, feasable and/or cheap just for one guitar. Make the top like everyone else out there with a router and you'll be set.

It wouldnt be for just one guitar, I'm hoping to make these and sell guitars, no electric guitar luthiers in scotland so I'm getting in there first lol
I wasnt thinking a piece of machinery, I was thinking a sort of cut down version of it, I have a general idea but knowing if it will work aint easy

[jimi_lp]

How would I do this with a router anyway?, The bit im worried about is where the neck is, cause the shape of the curve changes around there and its hard to see exactly how it goes on my epiphone LP

[Phil Mailloux]

Hi Jimi,

By looking at the questions you ask I would say you're probably just starting up building instruments and this would be the first. If that's not the case, don't get insulted.

If I were you I'd go and buy Melvyn Hiscock's "make your own electric guitar" This is the electric guitar builder's bible. He teaches you how to build instruments in all different types (bolt-on, glued-in and neck-through) all the answers you're looking for are in this book. I would also spend A LOT of time on www.projectguitar.com (http://www.projectguitar.com) reading up on all the tutorial on the main site and then read up some more on the online forum.

To give you an answer to your questions:
Neck angles - http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=14036&hl=neck+angle

For the top rout read Dayvo's link, that's already a pretty good start. In fact all your answers are there.

[jimi_lp]

Ok I'm going to ask yet another question lol
Does anyone know if Primavera is a good alternative to mahogany and whether it would give a good LP tone?
I've found a place to get mahogany but the price is high and the place is running out, so I'm worried by the time I go to buy it they won't have it, or it'll be really expensive, but Stew Mac are doing primavera for a great price

[old_picker]

I saw a post re primavera on alt.music.makers.builders re primavera.
The conclusion was that it was cheap because it was readily available but no substitute for honduran mahogany.

There are many mahoganies. I use "fijian" which is nothing like honduran but a nice timber to work with. Not appropriate for a neck but real nice for bodies. It has a similar density and hardness to the real thing. I personally feel it is much prettier than honduran and a lot easier to finnsh.

f you are looking to buy honduran mahogany read this LINK (http://www.worldwildlife.org/trade/faqs_mahogany.cfm)

[fanlee]

I have posted the 'Setchell' Carve top jig in the Router, Jigs section. I have used it on my build off a 336 (unfinished) and it works OK. Given that I'm a stone motherless newbie I'd say it works very well.

For the neck angle some people use shims (bolt on) or carve an angle into the heel of the neck (set neck and bolt on) and some carve an angled plane onto the area above the neck pickup and then use a 'flat' template & router on the angled area giving an angled neck pocket. I did the last method.

To get the angled plane I went to a friend who has a planer, figured out the angle with blocks & pushed it through. Again it worked.

I lost your question halfway through. I hope this is useful.

Also see MIMF.com (register) & search the library for John Catto stuff and also Anthony Setchell stuff. They're both great builders & pass on their knowledge.

[Aussiepappy]

Jimi!

Ive come across a website that sells plans to make a carver. Its called a Copycarver. Here is the website:-

http://www.copycarver.com/

Here is a link to one of their Ebay auctions, shows a Strat's curves being cutout.

http://cgi.ebay.com/DIY-Wood-Carving-Duplicator-Mass-produce-your-carving_W0QQitemZ200028157231QQihZ010QQcategoryZ3128QQcmdZViewItem

Its pretty basic design, and if you can make one, all you need is access to a Les Paul Bod to copy from and carve out the top.

Wondering what everyone else thinks?? Im gonna use it to help build my strat, well Im building a frankenstrat.

Pappy

[gratay]

Martin Koch's book I think he does a 335 style guitar... you can check that out.
The gibson 335's were a pressed top though ....not sure how he does it in the book
also bennedetto's archtop book may help where he drills guide holes at different depths over the face and then carves by hand down to the depth of his drill holes....using finger planes and scrapers and finally hand sanding

[Setch]

Hi,

I'm Anthony Setchell the guitar builder mentioned earlier in the thread. I thought I'd chime in to let you know how I carve guitar tops now.

I've ditched the spokeshave and scraper which I used in the top carving demo, and now use a router jig (http://www.setchellguitars.co.uk/ant/blog/?p=111) to rough out the

http://www.setchellguitars.co.uk/ant/ant/bloguploads/2006/08/26_roughingout_top.jpg

Once it's roughed into the 'steps' I smooth it out using a 40 grit abrasive disc on a powerdrill. I fine tune the carve with 80, then 120 grit on the same drill, and then remove the cross grain scratches with 120 then 240 on a ROS.

This technique is *so* much faster than the old approach, and produces equally good results. It is messy, so I try and do most of it outside if the weather is nice.

For those who are interested, you can find the Les Paul build account here (http://www.setchellguitars.co.uk/ant/blog/?page_id=4).

[Wild Dingo]

Jimi!

Ive come across a website that sells plans to make a carver. Its called a Copycarver. Here is the website:-

http://www.copycarver.com/

Here is a link to one of their Ebay auctions, shows a Strat's curves being cutout.

http://cgi.ebay.com/DIY-Wood-Carving-Duplicator-Mass-produce-your-carving_W0QQitemZ200028157231QQihZ010QQcategoryZ3128QQcmdZViewItem

Its pretty basic design, and if you can make one, all you need is access to a Les Paul Bod to copy from and carve out the top.

Wondering what everyone else thinks?? Im gonna use it to help build my strat, well Im building a frankenstrat.

Pappy

Gidday Pappy
I noticed your post the other day and went to have a gander at the copycarver... and since then have had several emails with Ed regarding it... nice bloke by the way! :cool: and so Ive ended up buying the plans and have just finished downloading the online ones and the extra additions
I think its a bloody ripsnorter!! Damnably easy by the looks of it... just gotta sort and source a few odds and sods and I'll have a whirl at it
Ive been dreading making the ships wheels Im planning on making (Ive done a couple of misfires before and couldnt stand the troubles I had with the damned lathe an my eyeballing it!!) I think this will cut those probs out easy as
Innovation and inspirational eh! ;)

Cheers!

PS let us know how you get on with it if you beat me which you probably will since Im not goin to get enough time to make the thing before I go back to work! :mad: So can you post your experiences? :cool:

Ahem sorry about the hyjack mates! :o

[TassieKiwi]

Have a look at the Whitiker site - magnificent boats - gets teh thread back to ww too. Check out the cabinetmaking in these babies!

[painkiki]

hi , very good , i need some help , i want to build a les paul guitar , but i didn't find les paul's plans for free , did anyone nows where can i get those plans , thx !

[old_picker]

if you want good plans you wont get em for nothing
mimf forum has plans for sale - its well worth the not very many dollrs it costs

there are plenty of half @rsed drawings on the web but i wouldnt rely on them
alternatively measure up a real LP and draw your own plan