The Latest Sixpence

[Daddles]

Here's the latest with Sixpence. As well as a lot of mucking around that you can't see, she's had her transom cut to the right shape - no, it doesn't have that odd peaked look in real life:rolleyes: and will be capped with a kapur strip. The dramatic change has been to the foredeck ... which she now has :D This is two laminations of 4mm ply. The first attachment shows the first sheet going on, held down with nails through cleats and a collection of clamps. The second and third photos show the second sheet going on, this time all clamps. What you can't see are small pieces of ply glued (hot glue gun) to the decking so that the clamps don't slide off the surface of the deck - it has quite a slope on it in places. The last attachment is the finished product.

Next steps?
Kapur along the top of the inwale and along the top of the transom, then a kapur gunwale (same size as the rubbing strip). This should leave no end grain plywood exposed and give a nice, tough, red strip to bang against things :D

Richard

[onthebeachalone]

the foredeck ... which she now has. This is two laminations of 4mm ply.Did you laminate it out of 2 x 4mm sheets to accommodate the curve, or some other more technical reason? The foredeck (as designed) on the Mirror 16 is one sheet of 4mm ply, well supported by beams, but it is VERY bendy underfoot and I wish I had upgraded it to 6mm.


The last attachment is the finished product.And very nice too. Have you decided on the finish for the inside?

[Daddles]

Thanks;)

The plans say two laminates of 4mm, so that's what I did. Didn't even think about it. However, it does have a pretty severe curve on it and those little wings on the back, where it blends into the inwale, are flat, so theres a fair bit of twist in that area too. I thought I'd stuffed it up my making that bit flat, thought it'd look funny, but it looks really nice in real life.

I'm hoping for a clear finish on the inside and that's what I'm working for. However, I'm not precious about it. It'll be poxy coated inside anyway, so I'll make the decision then - reach for the varnish or reach for the paint :cool:

Richard

[jmk89]

Richard

She's looking really good. I wish I had that many clamps!!!

Cheers

Jeremy

[Daddles]

She's looking really good. I wish I had that many clamps!!!

Thanks mate. David Payne draws a lovely boat. I use the lastest photo as the background on my computer and that's enough to keep the project moving ;)

Clamps. I have a rule about clamps - if I don't have enough, I go straight out and buy what I need. That's how I built up that collection. Sadly, none of the quick grip clamps are worth a pinch of sawdust - none of them work properly now, even the expensive ones. The cheapies are all gifts from the family - I now only buy the F clamps with the thick, rubberised handle as they are the only reliable ones. And, of course, all clamps are lovingly smothered with poxy so they don't rust :rolleyes:

Richard

[onthebeachalone]

I'm hoping for a clear finish on the inside and that's what I'm working for. Looks like you took considerable care with the fillets. I have never been able to get them that clean without using masking tape. Any tips?

[Daddles]

Looks like you took considerable care with the fillets. I have never been able to get them that clean without using masking tape. Any tips?

It's called sandpaper :eek:

When I put them in, I use a chisel shaped scraper (just a tongue depressor assaulted with the bench sander - straight edge and 'sharpened'). I use that to clean up the excess poxy. When it's all dry, I attack with with my Mouse Sander. Those Mouse Sanders are real weapons and do a great job of cleaning up fillets. You can even rock the edge back and forth over the surface of the fillet to clean it up, but the secret is to clean up as you go and to get the shape right (using the round end of tongue depressor).

Richard

I'm so ashamed, imagine ME admitting to achieving things with sandpaper:(

[Daddles]

More updates - quite a few day's work in this lot, even though it doesn't look like it.

As she sat before this, the inwales are glued to the inside of the top plank. This leaves the edge grain of the plank open. The inwale itself will eventually hide behind the coamings (to come much later).

This wee exercise :eek: was the gunwale installation.
First off, a cap strip of kapur - this seals the edge grain of the sheer plank and puts a nice, tough cover on the inwale - it also fills in the step at the rear of the foredeck, said step being how I decided on the thickness of this cap strip ;)

The first photo shows the first cap strip going on.

The second photo shows the other strip ... you can see the first one on the starboard side.

You may notice the interesting/bizarre mix of clamps. This strip is 30mm wide and 8mm thick. It has to bend both horizontally and vertically, the big bend being across the 30mm width naturally :rolleyes: Being a hardwood, the forces are quite interesting, and hence this clamping method.

The cap strip was cut so that it was a mm wider than it needed to be. The wooden clamps grip to the cap stip and align it with the inwale - yes, there is some overlap I've kept it small so that there is some float allowed but not much. Those wooden clamps also grip to the inwale or sheer plank depending on how the strip wanted to bend at that point. Naturally, this doesn't control the strip vertically, which is where the F-clamps come in, gripping to the underside of the inwale. It was a simple matter of starting at the front, ramming home the wooden clamp, then putting on an F clamp, then to the next wooden and associated F clamp, etc.

Once dry, half an hour with the spokeshave on the inside and the block plane on the outside, and these cap strips matched the inwale and sheerplank perfectly :D

Richard
next post does the gunwales themselves

[Daddles]

Now, the gunwales. A relatively simple matter of clamping them (kapur again) to the side of the boat ... well, it would be if there wasn't that foredeck in the way:cool:

I did things in this order so that the gunwale would cover the edge grain of the foredeck. Fortunately, there is this thumping great big hole in the middle of the foredeck for the mast to fall through ;)

Boats have this tendency to get pointy at the front end. This means that when it comes to clamping gunwales in place, there are no parallel surfaces to clamp between. If you look closely, you'll see wedges of timber glued to the gunwale. These were glued on with a hot glue gun - they give your clamp something to purchase against but knock off easily once you've finished. Wonderful stuff those hot glue gun thingies, even if the glue does burn like the dickens if you're clumsy :eek:

Although not photographed yet, I've run over the gunwales with my little trimmer router and not that they have the edges rounded off, they look really nice. :D

Current job? Fitting kapur doublers to the transom for the outboard motor clamps to dig into. Typically, I'm overdoing this but it should look rather nice.

Richard

[Daddles]

Transom.
Kapur about ohhh 'yay' thick glued to the front to give support for the outboard. Thickness was determined by running kapur decking through the thicknesser until the ripples disappeared. Curiously, this scientific approach determined the thickness of the gunwales and rubbing strip too (width just happened to be half a board minus the waste for the cut ;) )

You'll notice that I've run it from the bottom of the inwales. This needed a slightly wider plank than the standard bit of decking, so an insert was needed.

Wet glue - tomorrow I get to shape it, then fit a cap strip.

Richard

[onthebeachalone]

tomorrow I get to shape it, then fit a cap strip.She's looking beaut! Must admit to some curiosity about trimming the doubler after gluing in place. I'm sure there must be a reason but I think my instincts would have been to trim it before gluing. Am I missing something?

[Daddles]

She's looking beaut! Must admit to some curiosity about trimming the doubler after gluing in place. I'm sure there must be a reason but I think my instincts would have been to trim it before gluing. Am I missing something?

Thanks. Having the gunwales in place and shaped (not shown) really brings out her lines.

I glue in place and trim later because that way, it fits. If I trim first, timber changes size and shape, then manages to move out of the correct position while the glue is setting. Personally, I blame the shed pixies. The brutes certainly don't help by doing jobs I'm too lazy to, so I feel no guilt in accusing them of messing things up :rolleyes:

The trimming will be easy. Attack it with a plane or get lazy, attack it with a jigsaw, then a plane to finish off.

Richard

[onthebeachalone]

Personally, I blame the shed pixies. Ahhh! Thanks for the warning. When I get to the stage of actually gluing things together I'll keep an eye out for them. :mad:

[STEPHEN MILLER]

There I was logging in which I have not done for some time and seeing that word Sixpence coming up I thought to MeSelf, Self I said I wonder if there is pictures of a finished boat much to my dismay still more workin progress boat Oh woe is me we live in hope that one day it will be finished and it can get its gear off .

Here is me just look for a little light viewing pleasure while I rewire the fuse and switch board on mine.

To quote another amateur

The Ark was built by a lone Amateur the Titanic was built by a Large Group of Professionals

[Daddles]

Transon doublers trimmed and now the cap strip goes on. Reckon that was a fight. The bit is nearly 2" wide and over 1/2" thick - it did not want to bend. Then, of course, was the fun of clamping it onto a curve ... with all that slippery epoxy between the two surfaces. Much anglo-saxon encouragement given. Still, as you can see, it's on.

The external shots give you some idea of her lines - she's a corker alright :D

Much sanding, need to fit a ply doubler on the outside of the transom so the outboard mount has got something to chew up, then I can start fitting out the inside. Might even get it finished this decade :rolleyes:

Richard

[onthebeachalone]

A thing of beauty is a joy for ever!


...her lines - she's a corker alright :D
I think he's in love.


Might even get it finished this decade :rolleyes:
Then you wouldn't be able to fondle her as much :D

[Ramps]

Richard

Whoa ... steady on ... what's got into you. What's got you fired up ... you'll be launching before me at this rate.:mad:

these boats are like a woman (is that the reason while all boats are her?) you must start slowly and build a good relationship with her .. it all takes time doesn't it. ;)

It's looking fantastic ... we can really start seeing the shape of her now. I wonder if I should put that on my list of floating toys to build after the sea kayak?

It's a good education into the building of a vessel such as this. Keep on firing. see you on the water. :D

[Daddles]

I wouldn't be too scared. The next stage involves a lot of sandpaper ... and I can't do it with my faithful Mouse :( Cripes, it'll probably be months before I can even face it :rolleyes:

Richard

[Aberdeen]

So come on Richard, how about updating everyone on the progress of sixpence...... I hear you have diverted to bicycles for a while, something about getting fit????

You really have gotta get that poor old girl onto the water......

Aberdeen


I wouldn't be too scared. The next stage involves a lot of sandpaper ... and I can't do it with my faithful Mouse :( Cripes, it'll probably be months before I can even face it :rolleyes:

Richard

[Daddles]

Ahh yes, I have been diverted, but it's been good because that horrible sanding job no longer looks like it needs doing and I've changed how I'm going to do the next part of the job - this'll look much more betterer ... until I knock it about with the outboard.

But there are other projects getting in the way ... like the recumbent bicycle I'm going to make ... from plans ... where my first step is to acquire some steel tubing :oo:

Richard

[STEPHEN MILLER]

Richard
I have built 2 recumbent bikes the first was hand propelled the second by foot both are three wheelers
No 2 has front double wishbone supension and rear trailing arm suspension 21 speed front drum brakes rear lever brakes, steering is controlled by one lever and the other lever controls the lean of the bike as it has the ability to lean into corners [see pictures]as this is a failing of 3 wheel recumbent bikes you cant go around corners to fast as you end up on the deck
So have fun on your new project

[jmk89]

Richard

A mate of mine in Melbourne has been designing and building his own recumbant trike. PM or e-mail me if you would like me to mention your name and contact details to him and see if he wants to compare notes with you.

Cheers

Jeremy

[Daddles]

Thanks for that lads. Jeremy, please put me in contact with your mate. Hey Steve, about time you took me out on the boat again :D And you know all about welding up recumbents eh? Good. Me know less about it than I do about these boat things.

Richard

[Ramps]

BIKES!!!!
What the???? :doh: :doh:

This is section is w o o d e n b o a t s not fallen over metal bikes:D

So show the latest on sixpence ..... ok ....please

[STEPHEN MILLER]

:doh:
Its all got to do with wooden boats when the bike Daddles is going to build does not work he is going to use it to power the Sixpence cause the sail set up he is going to use will need all the help it can get or maybe to run his Triton, so now can you see the madness in his method

Next point the forum says wooden boats not those kayak things or we have heard to much about that other long winded Eureka whats it name.

Plus it goes to prove some of us can think or dream about things other than boats! :U

[onthebeachalone]

Perhaps this is the answer...

http://www.hobiecat.com/kayaking/miragedrive.html

Someone showed me one the other day. It's actually a brilliant concept and ideal for Daddles to make a "reclinerbikekayak" :wacko:

Or a "reclinerbikesixpence"

[STEPHEN MILLER]

I know someone with with the Hobie Kayak he is the SA agent for Hobie and they are effortless to get around last time I saw him using it he was taking photos of a dinghy race while paddling along top little rocket but be yet to complex for our Daddles doing two things at once :U

[Daddles]

More to the point, I discovered a site tonight by a bloke who makes WOODEN RECUMBENT bikes. Wow! He he, this is going to get sad isn't it. Don't worry, I haven't forgotten Sixpence (have to keep moving her out of the way of the bikes :roll:)

Richard

[Wood Butcher]

Wouldn't be this one would it Richard?

Wooden Recumbents (http://www.manytracks.com/recumbent.htm)

[Daddles]

Righto, time to resurrect this old thread - despite all the nonsense on this page, Page 1 DOES contain talk about Sixpence.

http://woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=32147&d=1160544814

Those unfamiliar with the project (ie, damn near all of you coz she's been ignored for some time :-) might also want to read the thread about the great Coaming Challenge (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f32/coaming-challenge-70886/) where I attempt to steam coamings for her, fail dismally, then laminate a lovely front coaming out of 2mm veneers.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachments/f32/71872d1209003903-coaming-challenge-coaming01.jpg

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachments/f32/71922d1209092795-coaming-challenge-yellow07.jpg


However, that's all in the past and this is how the dear old girl is today. Oh how the mighty have fallen, from shed queen to bloody nuisance and timber storage.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachments/f32/121464d1257646633-latest-sixpence-sixpence01.jpg

Richard

[Daddles]

Typically, my plans are rather ill formed but here's the thinking.

She's too heavy for my purposes.
She's not really the right kind of boat.
She's probably not going to be the best sail trainer either.
She's going to be expensive to finish, particularly with the need for a trailer and two sails.
There is a history to how she came into my care that is, let us say, unfortunate - among other things, I never actually chose to build this design or this boat.
The basic hull was built during a 6 month TAFE course and although I was only part of a team, I did work on every piece of timber in her. Since getting the hull home, I've probably put more than three times the man hours into getting her to this state than in building that hull anyway, she's definitely my boat.

What I'd love to build next is a really nice version of PAR's RYD14.9 - the big rowing boat. However, I'm happy for that project to wait for a bit while I build something else and discover the capabilities of the Little Black Dog.

What I should be building next is nice 12' sail boat such as Oughtred's Shearwater.

A good move would be to build a PDR but building the Little Black Dog has demonstrated that I don't really have the space while Sixpence is in the shed - that may still happen but ...

So, I'm back to finishing Sixpence, or selling her - ever tried to sell a half built boat? Lose lots of money, lose all that hard work - actually, none of that really matters too much but everytime I start to write up the ad for ebay, I can't do it.

So I'm stuck with finishing her.

The three big obstacles are her weight, having to spend heaps on a trailer, having to make two sails

Some discussions over beer in Mike's shed yesterday (with AJ in attendance, I was being suitably misinformed) suggest the following approach.

Weight - she is what she is and I can't make what's there any lighter however, I can complete the rest of her with an eye to saving weight.

Trailer - admittedly this is my thinking and Mike and AJ were too polite to tell me what a daft git I am, but the current plan is to aim for a beach dolly. She'll too heavy to easily work off a beach dolly but I reckon it's doable and can use my existing trailer. This means that I will be able to finish her and get some use out of her while attempting to finance a trailer (tilting for beach work). Past searches for second hand trailers have only turned up rusty hulks but I'll keep my eyes open.

Two sails (she's a yawl) - major expense that can stop a project right at the end. However, as the boys suggested, I can make up some sails out of polytarp to get me on the water while I try to finance decent sails. Considering I'll be effectively learning to sail in her, any loss of performance isn't a real issue.

So Sixpence is back in the building line. All I have to do is get that Little Black Dog finished.

Richard

[Daddles]

One should also run one's eyes over the thread: Introducing the Yellowtail Yawl (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f33/introducing-yellowtail-yawl-32585/) where I show Mik's yawl conversion to the original design.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachments/f33/24224d1149047681-introducing-yellowtail-yawl-yellowtail-storer-rig.jpg

(she won't have that coach house :wink:)

Richard

[Daddles]

Mik, any chance of you being all moderatory and moving that last post (the yawl one) above my longwinded explanation? It'd be more appropriate there.

And while I'm talking to Mik ... how would she go with just the mainsail? The thought is to save a bit of cash initially by just getting one sail made and the thought that it'd be easier on me while learning (only one sail to pfaff about with). I suspect the answer is 'no'. Not that such considerations are critical at the moment - I might be rich by the time I get around to putting her in the water.

Richard

[Daddles]

One should also run one's eyes over the thread: Introducing the Yellowtail Yawl (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f33/introducing-yellowtail-yawl-32585/) where I show Mik's yawl conversion to the original design.

I've just re-read that thread and there's some interesting stuff where Mik gets all historical on us :2tsup:

Richard

[b.o.a.t.]

Thought #1.
Wood storage on wheels so you can move it around... that's a darn good idea Richard !!

Thought #2.
So you were listening to us last night about finishing her after all. :;
She's well within your grasp mate and I think would, long-term, be a satisfying boat for you.

cheers
AJ

[honkongphoie]

great i pleased you've decided to finish her Richard

looking at the pics there's not a great deal of work left to do no her, once you have epoxyed the seat wells and put the tops on you'll be nearly there and it will make such a difference to her appearance.

did you manage to sort out the lower coaming strip that sprang off in the heat?

[m2c1Iw]

:fireworks: another couple of these:beer: and I reckon we coulda finished her last night. :D

[honkongphoie]

Thought #2.
So you were listening to us last night about finishing her after all. :;
She's well within your grasp mate and I think would, long-term, be a satisfying boat for you.

cheers
AJ

i agree you'll love using her when shes finished :2tsup: i can't wait to convert mine to sail only:cool:

as for the trailer worries, i had an old steel trailer given to me that i adapted to use for my Yellowtail, it's far from ideal and weighs somwhere around 400 lbs (the axle weighs a ton it is made from 8" x 6" box section and has car wheels and hubs welded to it)
but still on levelish ground i am able to move her around by myself on the trailer. I can also launch and retrieve her on my own by taking the car on the beach.

over this winter i will be making a new lighter trailer for her to make things a bit easier for me.

[rob540]

Makes a lot of sense to finish her. Not good for the atmosphere in your shed (or head) to have such a major thing lying forlorn, un-loved, incomplete and in the way.

She'll be marvelous with a mizzen- will it be off-centre, or will you have to crank the tiller?
Great news.:2tsup:

[Daddles]

Makes a lot of sense to finish her. Not good for the atmosphere in your shed (or head) to have such a major thing lying forlorn, un-loved, incomplete and in the way.

She'll be marvelous with a mizzen- will it be off-centre, or will you have to crank the tiller?
Great news.:2tsup:

Thanks boys.

Regarding the mizzen, she's going in off centre though I'd love to make one of those curvaceous tiller handles that Oughtred loves so much (cor, can I let Janet see me write stuff like that? :doh:)

I did glue that rubbing strip that came adrift back on ... and made a prize cock of the job too - never do something when your heart's not in it.

It doesn't look like much left to do but it's still a big job when you start adding it all up :( Next job will probably be to get that steel centreboard organised and installed - probably a simple job for people experienced in ropes and pulleys and such but it's had me freaked out for some time now ... and it's instant expense. Watch out for notification of a booze and bulldust evening once I've got it installed so we can work out how to raise and lower the thing.

Richard

[b.o.a.t.]

Next job will probably be to get that steel centreboard organised and installed - probably a simple job for people experienced in ropes and pulleys and such but it's had me freaked out for some time now ... and it's instant expense. Watch out for notification of a booze and bulldust evening once I've got it installed so we can work out how to raise and lower the thing.

Richard


I thought we'd talked you out of that complication & into a jarrah & carbon fibre jobbie
that doesn't need the lifting tackle. Or a footy team to carry & install it.
Looks like we need another session. With beer.
:U

[Dave Brewer]

What's this,sounds interesting and easier than the one in the plans.
Dave.

[Daddles]

What's this,sounds interesting and easier than the one in the plans.
Dave.

It is in the plans but you do have to dig to find it - a plate of 12mm steel (I think, it's been a while since I looked at things). Round off the corners, get it plated with this new technique that's better than galavinising and whose name I can't remember and bung it in with a 4:1 pulley system hooked off the compression post ... which my boat doesn't have because I've moved the mast forward.

The biggest change is to the centreboard case which is now a lot thinner to compensate. There are a number of them sailing around here with it and apparently it works quite well despite the apparent inefficiency (ie, no foil).

It still scares me though.

Richard

[b.o.a.t.]

What's this,sounds interesting and easier than the one in the plans.
Dave.


That was one of the sets of engineering calculations which I'm not sure MIK would
approve of... a CB of jarrah or similar, with carbon fibre each side to improve its
resistance to snapping. Finished thickness 12mm.

The other alternative was to take a jigsaw to her bottom & install a fatter CB case.

Third beer subject. :U
AJ

[Daddles]

Coamings - that lip that sticks a few inches above the decking and stops all that nasty wet stuff from coming into the boat ... but what stops the water coming over the coaming? :?

Okay, serious now. Seriously, that annoying git in the back row with the water pistol can just flamin' sit down and listen, this is serious.

Sixpence will have a raised coaming around the cockpit - I forget the dimensions but it's of the order of a hand width high and about half an inch thick.

I've already laminated the bit to go around the curved, front end of the cockpit - piccies in an earlier post and in the thread entitled 'coaming challenge (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f32/coaming-challenge-70886/)'
I'm happy with how that came out :D

The next trick is the coaming along the sides of the boat, from the front end to the transom.

My first thoughts were to steam some long pieces of solid timber and the hysterical attempt to achieve this is documented in Steaming big and long bits of wood (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f32/steaming-big-long-bits-wood-71631/)
Basically, the attempt failed because:
- I chose the wrong timber and
- we generated no where near enough steam and investigations showed that to do it properly, I was going to have to spend a couple of hundred dollars on the right burners and stuff (I did look at it very seriously).
However, a group of us had a wild day and learned a lot about steaming timbers and the abilty of a group of blokes to fail spectularly without swearing or sending the dog into emotional breakdown.

I've since made a pattern of the coaming required and, if I'm really careful, can just squeeze it out of a standard width, very wide plank of something. The trick will be getting timber wide enough in thin planks, my last investigations only unearthed 35mm planks which would have left a lot of wood chips on the floor after thinning it down to 12mm :~

Using solid timbers is still an option, however, there is the plywood alternative (enter Richard of Domino fame :D).

Surprisingly, plywood promises to be an expensive way to go, even if I can squeeze it out of one sheet (you laminate it out of 6m ply). It's also the option shown on the plans.
If using ply, common practice has been to glue a cap strip to it.

However, the front curve is laminated out of red veneers.
Gaboon varnishes to a red colour.
I'm hoping for a clear finish.

So, how would I go using gaboon for the side coamings and NOT fitting a cap strip? This would allow the laminate look to extend right around the top of the boat. Gluing a cap strip around the front end of the cockpit is NOT going to happen - the vertical and horizontal curves there make such an exercise possible but bloody silly ... and what I've got doesn't need it because it's all side grain.

It would mean an exposed edge of plywood. However, if well sealed with epoxy, would it really matter in a plank that isn't a structural piece and which sits vertically so no water can pool on it?

Richard

[rob540]

Coamings -
Okay, serious now. Seriously, that annoying git in the back row with the water pistol can just flamin' sit down and listen, this is serious.


Richard

I was just seeing if I could squirt the roof.:cool: But if you're going to be serious...
this is a serious rush of blood to the head. One minute you're contemplating getting back to sixpence and the next minute you're giving us more reading than we've had since the last Senate ballot paper.
Coamings is it? Wherever this rush of enthusiasm is coming from: bottle it.

As to exposed end-grain. Go for it. It saves work, can look really lovely if carefully sanded and varnished with care- and that will be easy after thorough epoxying. And don't worry about de-lamination as long as you maintain the epoxy if it gets dinged. I actually really like the look of ply. And it's honest.

[rob540]

Another option- but you've probably already discounted this for some good and obvious reason- is to make it from the same veneers that you used for'ard.

[m2c1Iw]

OK I've put my water pistol away as well but am going to throw ina curve ball.

Richard you always talk about a work boat look so go with pacific maple and paint the coaming white, a beige deck and an accent between the gunwhale and rub strip, I'd have navy blue but that's me. Plus the other Richards Yellowtail looks really cool. :2tsup:

Then a few bright bits inside to get the varnish bug out of your system, OK then varnish the deck if you must.......no don't do it beige....oh I don't know. :D

[Daddles]

Another option- but you've probably already discounted this for some good and obvious reason- is to make it from the same veneers that you used for'ard.

I don't have enough veneers for starters, and they'd need to be joined a few times along the way. Then there'd be the glue up, it'd cost me a fortune in epoxy, not to mention being a hell of a lot of work.

I did consider it, rather carefully, but you're bumping into the laws of dimishing returns very quickly. On a fancier build, it might be worth it, but while she's a bit above work boat, that's only by my standards.


Richard you always talk about a work boat look so go with pacific maple and paint the coaming white, a beige deck and an accent between the gunwhale and rub strip, I'd have navy blue but that's me. Plus the other Richards Yellowtail looks really cool. :2tsup:

Then a few bright bits inside to get the varnish bug out of your system, OK then varnish the deck if you must.......no don't do it beige....oh I don't know. :D

The plan is for her to be bright from the lower rubbing strip upwards, which is a lot of varnish for me. The final decision will be made come epoxy coating time - it it looks good coated in epoxy, I'll do the bright work bit, if it looks rubbish or like too much timber, I'll reach for some paint. Below that lower rubbing strip on the outside and below the coaming on the inside will be painted.

Richard

[Daddles]

As to exposed end-grain. Go for it. It saves work, can look really lovely if carefully sanded and varnished with care- and that will be easy after thorough epoxying. And don't worry about de-lamination as long as you maintain the epoxy if it gets dinged. I actually really like the look of ply. And it's honest.

That's my feeling and, being a coaming, it doesn't matter if it does come apart because it's relatively easy to replace. I sort of feel that ply would be stronger than solid timber anyway considering it'll be a plank supported at one edge with people climbing over it - the vertical curve will help support it but only up to a point.

Richard

[rob540]

... It doesn't have to be flat on top though, you could run a round-over bit both ways to make it half-round...that protects the laminations from abrasion (and people's bottoms) too. And if it's epoxied on you won't move it in a hurry -intentionally or not, and repairs will only need to be localized.

[Daddles]

... It doesn't have to be flat on top though, you could run a round-over bit both ways to make it half-round...that protects the laminations from abrasion (and people's bottoms) too. And if it's epoxied on you won't move it in a hurry -intentionally or not, and repairs will only need to be localized.

Yeah. I was always going to be rounded, though I'm thinking of rounding the ply, not adding half round to the top. With the laminated front end, it'll just look odd if it suddenly becomes clear timber once you get to the sides. The curve around the front, vertically and horizontally, doesn't really make me want to go putting any capping around the front.

Sheesh, such a lot of mucking about just for a coaming :~

Richard

[Daddles]

Paint hides a lot of sins doesn't it :doh:

Richard

[honkongphoie]

Paint hides a lot of sins doesn't it :doh:

Richard
paint it you know you want to

it will look so much better, let me give you a little encouragement

i have to say though i wish i had done a better job of joining the shear plank because i thought it looked better after i had epoxied itand the ply came up a lovely colour.
but my intention from the start was to paint it navy so not enough care was taken with the join:(

http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww261/honkongphoie/varnisheddeck.jpg

[m2c1Iw]

Mate that really is a stunning pic of your Yellowtail, she is beautiful.

Captures the essence of the boat if you know what I mean.:2tsup:

[Daddles]

paint it you know you want to

it will look so much better, let me give you a little encouragement

i have to say though i wish i had done a better job of joining the shear plank because i thought it looked better after i had epoxied itand the ply came up a lovely colour.
but my intention from the start was to paint it navy so not enough care was taken with the join:(



Yeah, but how did you do your coaming? I know you used ply but did you cap it or just round it off?

Richard

[honkongphoie]

Yeah, but how did you do your coaming? I know you used ply but did you cap it or just round it off?

Richard

i rounded the top off with a 6mm round over bit in the router, and to make sure the grain was sealed i gave it two coats of epoxy wet on wet before giving the whole lot three coats wet on wet, so the exposed edge grain of the ply has had 5 coats of pox

a word of warning though with the router, with the coaming strip laying flat on the bench you can do one side with ease, but when you turn it over to do the other side the bearing on the round over bit has nothing to run against and the bit just sinks into the ply:( so i clamped the coaming in the vice and did it on edge (a bit tricky to keep stable but it can be done)

[Daddles]

i rounded the top off with a 6mm round over bit in the router, and to make sure the grain was sealed i gave it two coats of epoxy wet on wet before giving the whole lot three coats wet on wet, so the exposed edge grain of the ply has had 5 coats of pox

a word of warning though with the router, with the coaming strip laying flat on the bench you can do one side with ease, but when you turn it over to do the other side the bearing on the round over bit has nothing to run against and the bit just sinks into the ply:( so i clamped the coaming in the vice and did it on edge (a bit tricky to keep stable but it can be done)

I thought that's what you'd done. I even have a cunning play to address the rounding of both edges conundrum ... but I won't tell you what it is until I'm proved either genius or idiot :rolleyes:

Richard

[honkongphoie]

I thought that's what you'd done. I even have a cunning play to address the rounding of both edges conundrum ... but I won't tell you what it is until I'm proved either genius or idiot :rolleyes:

Richard

in my case i was an idiot:-:D
totally forgot there would be a rounded edge on the inside when turned over:( but nothing a bit of filler didn't sort out,

[Daddles]

http://woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=32147&d=1160544814

The latest thinking for Sixpence is to finish her as a row boat.

There's a bit of interconnected reasonning behind this.

Firstly, it'll get the thing out of me shed and into the water.

The Yellowtail is known to row well and surprisingly, she's no tubbier than the Little Black Dog (looks rather dainty next to the LBD actually).

I think she'd serve well as the family rowboat ie, the boat you take when you're taking the family as this is where the extra volume, seating and stability will pay off rather than being a liability. She's not unlike all those working rowboats that used to ply our waterways. The side seating is a bit ... umm ... different in this role but it's there now.

The centreboard is yet to be purchased though the centreboard case is in place. The pivot for the centreboard sits in some ply doublers and I'll fit them but won't go any further. The aim will be to avoid as much effort now as possible but to still allow for installing the centreboard later. This will save the weight and expense of a thumping great big sheet of steel (it's a steel centreboard) plus all the stuffing about installing it and working out some sort of lifting mechanism.

I'll screw a lid onto the centreboard case, something that can be removed easily come centreboard time but which will seal the hull in the interim. I'm thinking of screws and Sikafex - is that a good or a daft solution?

My current thinking is to leave the centreboard slot open on the grounds that yes, it will create drag but trying to fill it will probably create it's own drag, trying to fill it won't be a simple job if I want to get the filler out later and filling it could lead to rot issues considering it'll be hard to dry out any moisture that does find its way into the centreboard case. Again, is this a good plan (leaving the slot open) or a daft plan?

The mast steps and partners are in - I'll simply make caps for them, might even make one of those fancy mooring posts to go in the front one (basically a very short 'mast' with a cross piece and something, maybe a wooden pin, under the deck to secure it) :D

I'll probably make and fit a rudder at some point so a passenger can play at being the coxain :D Actually, I see that as a sensible move and need not be done before launching her ie, it's an easy add on though I will need to look at whether the pintles should be mounted before closing the rear seat (bolted through the hull rather than screws).

This will get Sixpence onto the water and provide a more useful family rower than Redback.

It will give me a chance to work out just what she's likely to need in the way of trailers and things if I keep her long term.

If I find that I need something more than rowing power, it won't be hard to register her and bolt on the outboard - the boat plate carry on is simple because I'll register her as a sail boat and construction was started before the date where one was needed (South Oz rules apply here and I've checked that I'll be right). By starting as a row boat, I avoid a bit of expense up front.

The final conversion to sail will still be possible and can be done around or between other projects ... and I'll be able budget to do that properly.

While this solution wouldn't suit someone who wants to go sailing, it does suit me at the moment.

Any thoughts? I'll be swinging into this as soon as the Little Black Dog hits the water which surely can't be toooooooo far away.:C

Richard

[rob540]

You've obviously thought a lot about this, and your current thinking keeps lots of options open, but the clincher for me is that you think it'll be useful as a rower while your daughter might take delight in the times spent with her now. They grow so fast and any positive moments with an eight year old are worth weeks with her later...I mean there is so much to be gained now spending time with her and what could be more fun than mucking about with dad and a pair of oars (until Dad wants to learn to sail with her...) Budget thoughts make sense too. You have a hull that will be a great powered fishing craft- Honkers has shown us that, but can be a rower now and the option of sail may come later and think of the extra shed you'll have!! So much more space to get cross in:U

In two years you'll have one craft that you can row, motor, paddle or sail...and another couple being crafted in the shed....plus Redback and the dreaded Black Dog (which by then will just be a delight like all the others). Spoilt for choice I reckon.
Rob

[Daddles]

Thanks Rob. The main things were use and maintaining options, I don't think this route closes any options and I get to use her earlier. Let's assume that I go straight for the full sailing option - this route doesn't affect that and allows me to use her while the sailing kit is being put together ... I hope.

As for family trips, I'm thinking Jan, my son (who's 17), my daughter, my dog and me, so she'll be a full boat, not something any of the other boats could look at.

Richard

[m2c1Iw]

All makes sense to me Daddles.

Don't think you even need to seal down a centre case cap at rowing speed there should not be much splash and it'll be easier to remove down the track. Perhaps incorporate a removable or adjustable thwart in it. :rolleyes:
Easy for me to make suggestions from the lounge room chair. :D

Oh and you will need two sets of oars for both you and Jan......just make sure you are forward. :wink:

[tomtre]

Hi Daddles
Sounds like a great idea to get the boat on the water to use with the family
Years ago I built a "Lark" dinghy which was rowable and sailable and I just made a plug to sit in the centreboard slot held down with a bit of shockcard. occaisonly had a bit of seepage but nothing to worry about. Bottom of slot stayed open. I would be inclined to get the rudder pintles bolted in before glueing the seat, bolts with big washers and nylox and sealant as you know much stronger than screws and the things have to be bought sometime anyway.
I am surprised a boat that small needs a steel centerboard. That is a lot of weight to be hauling about. would it be possible to get the same effect with a plywood board and a couple of sandbags? Then you wont have all that weight on days when you are get to the water and there is no wind you can easy say "bugger it, Im going for a row"
Tom

[Daddles]

Hi Daddles
Sounds like a great idea to get the boat on the water to use with the family

Ta mate.


Years ago I built a "Lark" dinghy which was rowable and sailable and I just made a plug to sit in the centreboard slot held down with a bit of shockcard. occaisonly had a bit of seepage but nothing to worry about. Bottom of slot stayed open. I would be inclined to get the rudder pintles bolted in before glueing the seat, bolts with big washers and nylox and sealant as you know much stronger than screws and the things have to be bought sometime anyway.

Redback's got an open dagger board slot and I've had to make two plugs for hers ... coz I lost the first one - maybe that's why I'm keen not to have a loose one for this boat. A large part of her early life at least will be rowing only - even if I went straight to sail I couldn't afford sails for a goodly length of time. I thought of sealing it simply because I don't like unsealed things but maybe just screwing it down will be plenty.


I am surprised a boat that small needs a steel centerboard. That is a lot of weight to be hauling about. would it be possible to get the same effect with a plywood board and a couple of sandbags? Then you wont have all that weight on days when you are get to the water and there is no wind you can easy say "bugger it, Im going for a row"
Tom

Originally they had a plywood centreboard. When they were redesigned for the steel one, the width was reduced and this was built to suit with the result that the centreboard case is too skinny to take a decent ply board. I'm stuck with the steel.

Richard

[tomtre]

I reckon a bit of plywood screwed down would be fine, or even realwood.
I didnt know about the slotwidth, but that isnt the issue at the moment is it.
Getting it to a row or outboard stage is at least using it which will be great.
Tom

[b.o.a.t.]

I'll screw a lid onto the centreboard case, something that can be removed easily come centreboard time but which will seal the hull in the interim. I'm thinking of screws and Sikafex - is that a good or a daft solution?

Richard


G'day Daddles
What you propose makes a lot of sense. Can be done simpler & cheaper.
When I go rowing in Teal, I just whack a bit of duct tape over the CB slot.
On the outside if I remember -before- I put her in the water. :U
On the inside if I forget... :doh:

Remember: simplicate, and add lightness.

In any case, the slot will provide a useful support & locator for a rowing thwart.
Oh, and get a small drum to beat time for the galley slav... errr... kids rowing. :D

cheers
AJ