Working With Wood Shows

[ubeaut]

I am looking for feed back on the Timber and working with wood shows. This will be submitted to DMG (the show organisers) along with information being gathered from other surveys etc, currently being conducted all over Australia in the hope of making the shows bigger and better than they have ever been.

This is not being done to line the pockets of DMG but to make the shows more interesting and fun for the show going public and ensure that they keep running. These shows can represent up to one third or more of many businesses annual income so it is also important to them that the shows not only continue but hopefully grow bigger and become better patronised, preferably by people with money to spend. If not it could spell the end of some businesses and the shows themselves.

For many of the exhibitors these shows cost many tens of thousands of dollars. For us to have a small stand it will cost in the vicinity of $5,500 - $6,000 for Melbourne (our home Show), This includes stand fee, accommodation, meals, travel and work down time of over a week (some shows we can lose up to 3 weeks production time).

It all looks simple to the outsider. Go to show, set up stand, make money. It is so much more than that. For some almost 6 mth of the year goes into doing these shows. Not only do they have to stock their shops but often have to have many hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of stock in packing crates being shipped off all over the country to the shows and often sitting in storage for many weeks between shows. The logistics are and expenses are enormous.

Anyway all that aside what I really want here are your honest opinions. Don't beat around the bush or hold back, tell me what you really think about the shows.

Why do you go?

Why don't you go?

What would make the shows more attractive to you and others?

What is missing from the shows that you really would like to see?

Etc, etc, etc.

I'm not asking you to fill the following pages with negative responses. What I am doing is giving you a voice in helping to improve these shows for everyone.

This poll along with your honest and frank opinions and suggestions will be presented to DMG and a steering group of exhibitors at a special meeting on the Thursday night before the show and I promise you all concerns and suggestions will be addressed by people committed to making these shows better for all.

Cheers - Neil :)

This is a deadly serious post let's try and keep it that way.

[ozwinner]

Good one Neil.

First off they need to get rid of the "squishie pillows", "the magic tree pruners" and the "magic paint pad" sellers.

It should be a show dedicated to timber an tools only.

Al :)

[JackoH]

And the bloody shoe polishers!

[RufflyRustic]

Why do I go?

To stock up on UBeaut supplies
To check out any newly-released tools and equipment, new (to me) inventions and ideas
To stock up on any other supplies needed, check out the supplier and goods before purchasing online from them
To find new suppliers
To pick up some interesting pieces of timber
To support the woodturning/worker clubs by buying something from their stands
To meet & catch up with fellow woodworkers
To keep up to date with what's around, what's happenening, get new catalogues and training brochures
To get new ideas
To pick up any great specials I just can't be without


Why wouldn't I go

Too sick to drive
Act of God


What I'd like to see more of?
Displays of woodwork
More interesting & rare pieces of timber
Artists in Action - eg someone building something throughout the whole weekend

Cheers & Thanks for the chance to give some feedback.

Wendy

[craigb]

I first started going to check out the machinery and tools that were on offer.
This was the most important thing to me when I started to set-iup my shed.

Nowadays I find I go more to get those pieces of timber that are not usually easily available and also to catch up with fellow forumites.

Of course, replenshing my stock of Ubeaut products is always a priority as well. :)

I really think that the Sydney show has gone down hill since I first started going and I think that a lot of the reason for that is the rise of the non-woodworking exhibitors (think comfort pillows et al :rolleyes: ) together with a fall off in woodwork exhibitors (Henry Bros and Hafco for instance).

It would also be good to see the major players offer some genuine show discounts.

ABove all I reckon that they have to boot out the non-woodwork exhibitors or it runs the risk of just turning into an annual "Paddy's Market".

[ptc]

Ours was cancelled this year. (Tas)
Ozwinner.and wendy summed it up perfectly.
I was always at the Brisbane ones and a definite decline in
the shows was seen
And the cost to exhibitors is outragious !
Its not worth having a stand.

[mic-d]

Ditto for Al and Wendy. I love going to find show specials and learn about what's available.

CHeers

[Gumby]

Good one Neil.

First off they need to get rid of the "squishie pillows", "the magic tree pruners" and the "magic paint pad" sellers.

It should be a show dedicated to timber an tools only.

Al :)

NO way :mad: :mad: :mad:

I spend half my time watching those guys, buying star mops and miracle gutter cleaners.

The magic paint pad is actually an excellent tool. So are those fibre cloths.

:mad:

And I think offering show discounts is just enhancing the problem for suppliers. You only have to rad posts in here all the time advising people to wait until the show before buying - it will be on special etc. They make a rod for their own backs. The people put off buying until the show, they sell more at the show because of it and less in the shop for the same reason. Then they have to keep going to the show because they can't afford to miss out on sales. So they get committed and the show organisers put up the fees because they have a captive audience.

If the show wasn't there, we'd all still have the same tools we have today. No extra sales are created at the show, just transferred from elsewhere.

But I like going to buy the mops.:cool:

[silentC]

I have been to two, last year and the year before in Sydney. It's a half day drive to get there. I usually time a work-related trip to Sydney to coincide but this year I was too busy with the house building to give up a weekend. I will probably go next year.

I had thought of going to the Canberra one but had heard that it's not as big as Sydney (the show, not the city :p ). Had no money to spend around the time of the Canberra one this year anyway.

What I like about them is checking out all the stuff I read about in mags or here that I don't normally get to look at, like the HNT Gordon and Lie-Nielsen stands. I like looking at the second hand stuff and checking out the work on display. I don't bother with the demos and the timber looks overpriced to me, but then I'm a cheapskate. I usually catch up with some forum members, but I can take that or leave it ;) For some reason, I always seem to be hung over when I go too, I don't know why.

I don't care too much about the non-woodie related stuff in that it wouldn't stop me going. If it takes over, I would steer clear though. I can go to Paddy's Market for free. You do have to ask yourself what's in it for DMG to have those exhibitors in there. Are they having trouble making up the numbers from the woodwork related businesses and organisations?

[Andy Mac]

Never been to one, which I'm a bit embarrassed about...having worked in the industry, and it continues to be a passion. Main reason I guess is it means a 4 hr round trip, which has to be added to other costs like parking and entry, food etc.
Why haven't I made the effort, despite the advertising:
I guess if it sounded more like a "festival" of like minded woodworking enthusiasts, with displays of a wide range of woodwork and people actually working, and some historic stuff (that side of it interests me greatly), and not just a marketing exercise, with emphasis on the latest gimmick, I'd make a day of it. More on the inspiration, the "how-to" or even "what-to", than "what-with", but that sounds pretty naive!:rolleyes:
The recent woodfair I went to up here was a case in point...all woodworking related, gold coin donation entry, with only the odd bit of merchandising. Timber for sale, and artisans showing their wares, so it was more about woodwork than the machinery and supplies, not a tradeshow.

Cheers,

[DanP]

I would go to each and every one but for the distance/time/money factors. I have been to two and bought UB products at both, drooled over almost everything else in the joint (except the magic mops and pruners) and will go to them again, when time/money concerns are no longer an issue.

Dan

[jmk89]

I have only been to the most recent one but I think it is unlikely that I would go every year.

Why go?


A great selection of suppliers and the chance to do comparison shopping on a wide range of wood stuff
A number of good prices on things you want to get
Interesting timber to look at
Good people to talk to
U-Beaut products
Intersting demonstrations and exhibitions in the non-trade section (esp the wooden boats)
The one or two exhibitors whose products you didn't know about
Why not go?


Internet shopping enables good comparison shopping and often gives as good a price as Show specials
I tend to be too concerned about making impulse buys, so I leave without the thing I really need - exhibitors would do well to allow 2 month rain checks to show shoppers at the show price to avoid this
The entry price is high - you feel you need to pick up a great bargain to make up for the cost
The number of non-wood exhibitors
If any more of the most desirable exhibitors decide not to turn upWill I go next year? Probably so long as I am free on the day, the price doesn't go up too much and the exhibitor list doesn't get too short on "true wood" and the exhibitors I want to see. But for me it is a year by year proposition and after next year, I will probably only go if I have a reason to go (BTW part of the reason not to go is that Neil's postal service is so good and you don't have to queue!!!:D :D )

[Buzzer]

I travel 650km to see the wood show and wouldn't miss it as long as there is breath in my body!!

The displays that are not woodwork related, need to be banned. As I pay my entrance fee to see what the advertising tells us, it is a woodworking show.

The static displays don't interest me that much. The working displays are of most interest to me, eg, Richard Vaughan, Terry Gordon, Givkins, Bush Tucker Man(Les Hiddons).

Woodshow specials that I am Interested in would be handy, as I would actually buy something!!

Cheers.

[DavidG]

I go 'cause I deliver a load of stuff to there and get a free pass.
I also save up so I can spend up there.
Nice to look around.
Wish I had more money to spend there.

[Touchwood]

Being new to this woody stuff, I had never really taken much notice of the wood show ads. Then, after doing a few wood courses at TAFE (WA) I was asked to go as a demonstrater for Women in Wood stand - turning. WOW the wood show was fantastic and the only thing that stops me going each year (it's only 450 km round trip - nothing here in the west) is other committments.

I found some great 'new' things, often good prices, fantastic new ideas.

Some have mentioned the 'other stalls' - they help reduce costs by hiring a stall remember!

JD

[Dylan SJ]

I enjoy the show because it's like a big showroom of tools and machines that I don't normally get to see. Unfortunately, the crowds can make it difficult to get a close look.

I also buy a fair amount of stuff that's on special. I would forego the show specials if retailers had pre or post show specials (I filled half my shopping list at Carbatec's sale this week). That may keep the milling crowds down.

I have never watched the live demonstrations as I'm always too busy shopping and looking at the stands. I am hoping to watch a couple this year (if I get time).

[Slavo]

I missed this year due to family copmmittments but try to get there every year. I like to see all the new machinery & tools that I can't afford and have no room for.
I think demonstrations on hand tool and general woodworking techniques are always informative (i.e. this is how you read the grain in a board, etc)
Also some good examples of what can be built from wood, traditional cabinetry through to more abstract bent & twisted laminated pieces just for display, in order to challenge people to be creative and precise in their work.

[Gra]

Im with Al on the non wood working stands, though I do like the shoe pollishers, its the only time my shoes get a good polish.

I might add, the price and type of food available is an issue especially if you have a family (Wife also likes to go, mainly to keep me in line, but also to look and buy at the exibits herself)

[tashammer]

i can get what i need these days from reading the web, this forum, talking to my neighbours, going to Deloraine Craft Festival - which is absolutely fantastic - little maps are provided as the Festival is all over the town. Deloraine is small enough to allow that sort of arrangement. Each mini-site has something different by way of interest and there is a major site that has a little of everything plus they award prizes - best site, most interest etc.

Some of the craftspeople that attend are folks who would not normally come out before large crowds (large for Tassy). And the standard of work is high - very high. Not sure about too high though. Too high could be a bit off putting. Some of a lower standard is a good thing, providing that it is identified as such, e.g advanced level practitioner, middle level, lower, new chum, commercial. That kind of sorting is fraught with snags though.

A good thing is getting to talk to people who know and love their stuff, as well as demonstrations, special offers (limited and just for the Festival). last time i got to talk at length with a young bloke from Golden Valley who had gone back to earlier skills and who was making a living crafting items things from horizontal scrub, blackwood and a whole range of Tassy timbers. (Bought a neat set of coat pegs and a lovely blackwood coffee table with drawknife cut legs. The slab was cut from a tree fork so it showed some beautiful features. Plus he was also demonstrating using the stool, the drawknife, can't recall if he showed the broadaxe. Lots of folks found seeing old skills really fascinating. Oh, they even built an early settlers hut using old skills that you could walk through.

That's an important part of small shows, folks get to talk and touch rather than just look over a barrier though, obviously, you cannot allow everything to be in reach.

Maybe something to keep in mind is how the show is defined and who its audience are to be and what you expect to achieve. Some shows are much too big and it is like being caught in a current that sweeps you past what you wanted to see. Or, if you are a little slower, the pressure from the "wanna race in do the show and bugger off types" exert an uncomfortable kind of pressure that destroys the moment.

Often, i feel that the rushers are the ones who just go so they can say they went. That might be unfair. Perhaps it would be fairer to say that the rushers are one of the types that attend shows.

Deloraine is being attended by interstate presenters as well, including some flash buggers.

What is handy is where there are neat areas arranged so that you might have a local woodturners group then, either next to them or very close, the tools presenters, and equipment presenters, and materials presenters in a kind of natural progression. (Sometimes, the craftsperson is also the seller of kit) which can be tricky as one sometimes is looking for the hook and waiting to be sold something - that's what i mean about being transparent (buzz word, i know, but right nonetheless) about the purpose of the show/festival.

I recall being fascinated by a needle work mob and all the gear they used and right next door was where i could look at prices and ranges of kit. Even bought a big quick'n'pick - very handy for arthritic hands.

Now things like the shows that used to be at the Exhibition Buildings, Melbourne, i find too big, too fast, and too pressured. Presenters are already lining up the next visitor before they have even started talking to you. Maybe they need to attend worshops on people skills rather than selling skills?

Numbers aren't everything. In fact numbers may be misleading if all that happened was that people flocked in, were swept through and out another door. Sales too can be misleading as some people may have bought some novelty items but, some months down the track, a person goes and buys a 5K item which he had intended to buy from somewhere all along but, as a result of the presentation he saw and the friendliness of the attendants at the stand he buys it from your company. See, it's hard to quantify.

[Stuart]

I go every year, wouldn't miss it (except for Act of SWMBO)

Reasons for going

1. I still learn stuff - seeing things demonstrated, talking to the displayers, picking the brains of the people who created the products - the Terrys (Gordon and Piric Design :) ), the Ubeauts, etc etc

2. I get to see an interesting range of timbers, that I can wish for (but never afford)

3. There is always other people's work on display - nice to see what people are up to, especially when there used to be competitions - always wanted to enter one, but my skills still haven't gotten good enough yet

4. Comparison shopping

5. Sales / discounts

6. Release of new products (think this should be done a lot more)

7. Getting to catch up on familiar faces, say hi to people that I don't normally get to meet as they are scattered around the country

Reasons for not going

1. If the variety of displays keeps degrading with displayers pulling out

2. More and more influx of non related displays / overhead painting, pillows, boot polishers. (Why the hell they ask to 'polish my boots' as I walk past with my steel capped boots that are pretty much kicked down to bare metal? I don't need the hard sale crap)

3. If the costs keep escalating without improvements in the quality of the expo. Showbags of donated product by retailers would be interesting, but probably not practical. At least if I could go home with purchases that were discounted so that I ended up saving more than the entry cost, then the entry price would feel justified. Knowing that the retailers spend a fortune to be there, and then the customers are also slugged for walking in is a bit rough.

[Terry B]

I have never been and as I live over 5 hours drive from a major city I can't see myself making an expensive trip for what is for me a hobby.

[Auzzie turner]

is this for the W.A show as well??

[Cliff Rogers]

It is a long trip for me so I currently average about once every 7 years.

When I do go I spend about $2k.

[felixe]

I go for the tools, to be able to make comparisons on products (like saw blades and router bits) that are all under one roof rather than to drive all across SE Qld, and also to see suppliers that are outside Brisbane, McJing and Timbecon.
I go to touch the wood.
I go to see for the sales (but would otherwise go to Hafco and Carbatec sales)
I go for the shoe polish!! - Bought some this year and it works a treat!
I go for the food:eek: (NOT!)
I go for the demo's to see blokes like the guy from Mulimbimbi (did I spell it correctly?)

I can't believe they charge so much for stall holders when they sting us at the gates as well!!

[lubbing5cherubs]

bring some out the west way I go..mine is distance
Toni

[gazaly]

The first wood show I attended was the Melbourne show in 2001. I found it one of the best sources of information, learning, demonstration and bargain buying in the woodworking world. The next would be the Internet, but you can't pick up and use stuff there. I then moved to Perth, where the national show had been pulled.

Now the local show is great (but then again, something is better than nothing), but it is not a pinch on the national show, for obvious reasons. The amount of demonstrating exhibitors for one is huge in comparison.

I don't know why the Perth show was pulled from the national scheme, but I would love to see in brought back. If the reason was due to no suitable venue, the new exhibition centre is a perfect location - its just a small version of Jeff's Shed in Melbourne.

So, there are two main reasons I attend the show each year:

To learn, try and experience (hopefully)
To pick up a bargain or two.I hope this helps to bring the national show back to Perth (if for no other reason than to see U and Beaut in the flesh again :D )

[Tex B]

I've been to the last two or three years in Sydney.

It's great to be able to compare equipment side by side, without driving hours from shop to shop. That would be my main reason to go so far.

Enjoy seeing the different timber up close.

Ditto the completed projects.

Saw some interesting demos last year (turning mainly), and new products (domino), which were helpful to me.

Able to ask specific questions to dealers (like how do I connect a normal vac hose to the goofy Festool router connection).

Last year I spent a few hundred dollars I think. Not because things were on sale (not sure I paid any less for stuff than normal price) but because I could compare side by side. Also was able to see stuff working instead of just looking at things in a catalog.

I don't mind the non-wood stuff, as long as it doesn't choke out the rest. Some of it is kind of interesting. One of these days I'll probably get one of those Kiwi clamp things that do everything but sweep the floor.

The main problem I had was that I went on the Friday, and the place was packed with school kids. Good to expose them to woodworking and etc, but I though most of them were just there for a break from school, and made moving around the show a bit difficult.

Tex

[Auzzie turner]

I go to the Wood Show every year. I know half the people there, and it is a great place to go to, because 98% of it is Woodwork. The other 2%, is what I don't like.

Things that should be gotten rid of.

Magic Hand wash
Tree pruners
Those little brush thingamajigs they keep trying to sell to people.
Can't remember all the other non-woodwork stalls, but anything non-woodwork related should not be there. This is a Wood Show!!

The reason we have all these other non woodwork stalls, is because of......money.:mad:

The curators know they can make a good profit by letting these guys get in. I think the curators/managers of the shows do a wonderful job, but this is where they fall short. Keep it to Woodwork.

Anyway, I always like it, because there are hands-on demos, It might just be because I'm 14, but I always haggle with the seller, and I usually get the price under half. That's for machinery/tools/wood/etc:

The wood shows around Australia, should most definately be kept, BUT, keep it to Woodwork.

Enough,:cool:

Regards.........Joash:)

[Knurl]

I'v eonly been to the 2005 Sydney show and missed this year because I was OS.

I went to the Showfor:
a. bargains
b. small wood samples and to identify sources of wood
c. interesting new tools and gadgets
d. listening to some presentations and learning new techniques
e. talking to fellow woodies

I agree with others that I really can do without the snake-oil sellers.

I'd like more on woodworking books and "meet the experts".

I bought timber and a biscuit jointer and picture framing accessories.

[NewLou]

Gidday

I just havent been able to make one yet.................for me its the distance I have to travel cost of the weekend and that I'm always Broke.

When I finally have the opportunity to make it to one of the Woodshows the Kind of things that would keep me consistantly going back would include:


Some kind of ententainment/get together that promotes fellowship between woodworkers..............theres nothing like like minded people coming together to share a passion and speak crap n share yarns all weekend.
Exotic/Quality Timber at non exotic prices (Must not be advertised before the Show) Gotta face it woodies are sukers for a bargan.............make that bargan Timber & you've got us Hook line n sinker
Genuine Bargains on HAndTools/Machinery (Must not be advertised before the Show) Probs the next best lure is things we can attack/caress Timber with ...................... Theres nothing like getting a genuine good price on Tools
KEEP THE SHOW SPECIALS SECRET WITH ONE OR TWO OUTSTANDING SPECIALS THAT ROTATE AMOUNGST EXHIBITORS on a yearly basis. HAveing the excitement of not knowing quite whats on offer but knowing that theres going to be genuine specials on offers is like luring moths to light.
Exhibitions of quality High end furnature
I'm always interested in Work in Progress exhibitions & Demos of a wide range of tools & techniques.
A dedicated Finishing section with heaps a demos etc etc etc so I can get shown by the pros how to apply a finish I'm interested in including proper spraying technique, French polishing etc etc etc Finishing is often the Bane of the new Woodworker and most frustrating part of the furnature making process until you know what your doing.
HAving a raincheck period for all exhibitors ........... say about a month
HAving the pros give various presentations like the one Neil did on the forum Video - Thats GoldThese kind of things would keep me coming back each year and making me real dirty if I missed a show!!!!!

REGards Lou:D:D:D

[Ashore]

I go to the Newcastle Show each year but as you know thats becoming bigger on the craft side than the pure wood work section
Last year even the timber for sale was a lot smaller than previous years and the show specials were limited
I also went to the Sydney wood show for the first time and though its a couple of hours each way in the car the value is definately there for tools.


As for other Ideas I think that more competitions for wood workers to enter and display would be good, perhaps along the lines of one triton did some time back , ie starting with a single stick of 4 x 4 pine and see what you can make from that piece alone
Nothing too large perhaps Best Inlay work , best wooden box of set dimentions, best wooden toy, age comps for turning, maybe get the woodwork clubs to all submit one piece on a given theme and give a champion club for the year award , the prise doesn't have to be large I think most would enter just to be there. but make them open to the mugs like me as well as the school displays.


Rgds
Russell

[keith53]

Why do I go?

To stock up on UBeaut supplies
To check out any newly-released tools and equipment, new (to me) inventions and ideas
To stock up on any other supplies needed, check out the supplier and goods before purchasing online from them
To find new suppliers
To pick up some interesting pieces of timber
To support the woodturning/worker clubs by buying something from their stands
To meet & catch up with fellow woodworkers
To keep up to date with what's around, what's happenening, get new catalogues and training brochures
To get new ideas
To pick up any great specials I just can't be without


Why wouldn't I go

Too sick to drive
Act of God


What I'd like to see more of?
Displays of woodwork
More interesting & rare pieces of timber
Artists in Action - eg someone building something throughout the whole weekend

Cheers & Thanks for the chance to give some feedback.

Wendy

Ditto.

Keith

[I_wanna_Shed]

I go to the Sydney show every year. Reasons are:

Its a day out in support to one of my hobbies
See and touch the tools/machines I have read about in magazines and online, all under one roof. I could go to Carbatec in Auburn throughout the year for smaller purchases, but would prefer to buy (or at least check out) multiple brands of larger items at the show.
SEE DEMONSTRATIONS!!! This is the BEST bit for me. The lessons I learn in these is fantastic. I'm even tempted to next year go for two days: 1 to watch the demos, 1 to wander around and buy.
Of course I go to buy tools. Obviously it would be better if all stands had show discounts or specials, but financially not all can do this (eg: people won't buy from them the rest of the year, they will just wait for the show). As long as a stand doesn't jack up their prices I will buy from them.
Ability to talk to others and gain advice from them (whether stall holders or other show goers).
See the people who you order off over the web - put a face to a name.
Pick up brochures/books/pamphlets. No matter how good the Internet is, I still like to sit down and read through stuff.
And its good to just walk around, hand over cash for items, and pick em all up at the end of the day.
Another reason is that (hopefully), by spending money at the show, it encourages the suppliers to come back next year.The only downsides/suggestions I can think of are:
Expensive food - 7 bucks for a hot dog is damn lousy. I'll wait all day and get something after the show.
Perhaps staying open into the night on the Friday - this would help increase patron numbers amongst those who wish to come after work, or who can't make it on the weekend.
The non-wood related stores.... I just walk past em, but if they increased, it would count towards spoiling the show.
I think the price of admission was $15 this year. I'm okay to pay this price. If it was to go up a few dollars, I would still be happy to pay it as long as I saw some added value in it (maybe also have a discount for a 'weekend pass', I know several people who go for 2 days).Cheers,
Nathan.

[clubbyr8]

I go to the Sydney show every year and I've been to the Canberra show a couple of times. My opinion is the show is getting worse each year. Seems to me companies like Hare & Forbes have decided not to go anymore as the show clashes with another "industry show". They haven't been there for the last two years.

I don't like the non-woodworking stands, this is a woodshow after all.

The theme of the show seems to be getting away from the home hobbiest. There seems to be too much enforcise on the big machines that I would thing the average home woody couldn't afford or have room for. Sorry Felder, nice machines though.

It's good to meet people that you deal with over the internet and put faces to names.

I like the static displays, it amazes me of the talent some people have.

I would like to watch the turning displays but everyone of them I have seen seems dangerous to me as none of them use dust extraction even though they had dusties connected. I watched one (from a distance) that showered the front two rows of seats with very fine dust as he sanded. The demonstrator didn't even bother wearing eye protection.

The demonstration of the timber mills is a fun thing to watch and one of those is on the wish list.

The other thing I would like to see happen is that the show is moved back to Homebush Bay. Fox studios is a PIA to get to from where I live and there are always problems with traffic.

Bob

[Wood Borer]

I go there to support the clubs and to pick up specials. Occasionally I see a new product and it is good to try it out or discuss it with the retailer.

Like the others, I only go there to see woodwork related products and services.

If you pay to attend these functions then I feel I shouldn't be intimidated by snake oil salespeople.

If you pay to attend, then you should expect to be presented with something more than if you were walk into the retail outlet off the street. For example I don't pay $14 to walk into Carbatec or MIK - it's free.

The retailers are charged high fees to have stands and no doubt have intentions of at least breaking even and so do the woodworkers attending the show. Which means there must be something else to make it more attractive.

This year at the Melbourne show there will be an exhibition of woodwork that will be judged by respected well known judges which will greatly help to put the focus back on the woodwork aspect of the show.

[Gumby]

[

The wood shows around Australia, should most definately be kept, BUT, keep it to Woodwork.

Enough,:cool:

Regards.........Joash[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]:)

You'd be the first one to scream when the entry price doubled :rolleyes:

[woodsprite]

Only recently rediscovered my love of wood - will be going to this year's show!

[HappyHammer]

Time was always an issue for me when I was in Sydney now I'm up the coast time, distance and cost are issues.

Why not have an online woodshow it would seem to meet most of the requirements expressed on this thread although I admit not all but meeting other members of the forum is over rated I reckon :D

It could be hosted right here over a given period, one of the benefits for the less experienced would be to see the questions asked by the more experienced members and have an opportunity to ask why the answer is important before parting with the hard earned.

Hey Silent if I promote it will you build the site?;)

And if you really must meet up face to face then get togethers can be organised immediately prior (to discuss game plan) or immediately after (to discuss purchases) and they can be in various locations so everyone has a chance to get together and have a chin wag.

If you build it they will come.....:confused: :D

HH.

[Grunt]

I go primarily so I can hopld Al's hand as we walk around in our foilie tu-tus.

I just like to have a look around and see what's new. I've bought quite a bit at the show over the years.
It's a good oppertunity to touch, feel and compare tools. It's also a great to see a wide selection of wood.

It's also good to talk to other foilie wearing misfits.

[Paul B]

I only go when I need to buy something (18" bandsaw last time) its good to be able to compare prices and features on different equipment all under one roof.

I also like to go to find secondhand tools, unusual timber, and to find some new tools - the stuff that the guy at bunnings always gives you a blank stare about when you ask if they have it.

What I don't like is that the place is so bloody crowded, and that every second bugger is wearing a backpack which they seem oblivious about. Fellas when you have a backpack on you take up twice as much bloody room, leave it in the bus.

Another thing about the sydney show, the hall of industry (or whatever) has all the stands and is packed with people, but then you get over to the hordern pavilion and they have tons of room not being used. If they spread everything out a bit, people would feel less harried, stay for longer, and buy more stuff. Instead of doing what they came to do and getting the hell out.

[Slow6]

always too busy or out of town at the time.. this'll be my first year in attendance at the melb www show.

just going to check it out really, I hope to find a bit of wood.. maybe a few hand tools.
A year ago I may have tried for a few bargains on machinery but have since learned my lesson and never buy new machinery, I prefer to shop for cast iron antiques that wont break or warp if I sneaze.

looking foreward to it tho.. hoping to score a decent skew and maybe a few sets of jaws for my chuck.

I'll vote in your poll next year when I have half a clue :)

[TEEJAY]

Have been to the past three in Bris will go the the next.

Would love to see better discounts but accept them not practical as stated by Gumby.

I do enjoy the timber section with those Tassie woods - awesome to get stuff you just don't see about - but can't afford most of it so usually leave with only a small amount.

Found the first show I went to confusing as I didn't understand most of the machines, enjoyed the second show looking for new gadgets and ideas and watching displays (Gifkins etc) found the third show had most gear I already have and want bigger and better (so no big deal I just visit the shops). Will at the next one look closer at the handtool region.

Would very much like to see as many new gadgets and ideas as possbile displayed.

Would also like to see more displays of peoples works either finished or in progress - half built domino rocker etc - would raise one's interest in the process and the product. Hey Rocker perhaps you could team up with Festool for this one. This is a serious idea and i think we all like to see inovation so we can gather ideas that inspire us.

Love to see more displays of some fine woodworks.

I am happy to ignore the mop,shoe,cushion displays.

I think some work can be done on the demo area to give the presenters a better oportunity to make the most of their efforts - let them have a display of examples, better speaker systems.

[Ironwood]

I go to the Brisbane show when I can manage to be there at the right time. Been to 5 of them now and usually go on 2 of the days. I usually make a major purchase when I go, last year I bought a new table saw off Gregory Machinery, couldnt go this year because of family commitments.
I like to go because I can go from stand to stand and talk to people there, and compare different machines all under the one roof. I also like to stock up on a lot of smaller stuff not available where I live. Also to buy a few bits of wood not available in my area, mainly turning blanks.
The knowledge that I gain from going negates the issue of entry cost (for me anyway). the main thing that puts me off is the crowds (country boy).:rolleyes:
One thing I miss seeing is the Nimbin sawmill's big bandsaw mill, I was told that workplace health and safety, put the kybosh on them :( .

[DJ’s Timber]

I normally go every year, but due to other commitments I had to forgo the last two years. I have helped to transport and setup displays. I also demostrated one year. I also like to keep up with the technology and pickup timber that I wouldn't normally have access to

[meerkat]

Hi Neil,

I've only been to one, the last one.

There are 3 reasons why I go to the show, see whats out there, hopefully get a great deal and hopefully pick up on some demos etc.

Now realistically,

Whats out there can usually be found out through magazines and the forum etc.

Great deals ? Well because most exhibitors are spending a small fortune on the stand etc it's been my experience that the price isn't much better than what you would get any other time of the year.

The demos etc are helpful but limited. Rudely listening to others conversations usually gives more :o:)

As an exhibitor in another expo, it's usually where you get a pile of leads and biz. Whether it's worthwhile is dependant on the product(s).

The only real winners I have found (if there are any) are the expo people themselves (not the exhibitors) if you know what I mean.

Hope this helps

Regards
Andrew

[robatman]

I've been to Sydney last two years, also went to canberra last year.


I like checking out all the big toys i could never afford.
Looking for bargains- generally have around $200 to buy little things and the odd piece of wood.
Sitting in on the workshops and learning from people while they actually do it.
Seeing new things I can actually afford- finishes, hand planes, clamps etc..
stock up on UBeaut products.
McJings always has a few cheap pieces that are quite functional.
For me its something to look forward to, and be able to get the best price by comparing major retailers, eg carbtec, MIK etc.

I guess i like talking and looking at WW stuff almost as much as doing it. Thats why i love this site!!!

Robert

[Ross]

I am a regular at the Sydney show and this year I drove down to the Canberra show for the day.

I would sum up the shows in two words 1. Educational and 2. Entertaining.

Ross

[Fryers]

Never been to one. I guess I never thought of it nor knew when, where, how much or why... It is a hobby... Maybe I should have a look/

Fryers

[Harry72]

I look forward to them, only been the last 3... with an average of about $2500 spent at each show.

I'll say the things that I was discussing with Neil at the after show meet up, purley based on the Adeliade show

1. Not enough big name exhibitors that do machines and trade products... we need to cater for the pro woodys too. I was talking to two guys(1 builder 1 joiner) and they were saying the show was poor because there was very little on offer, other than the festool(the builder spent well over $10k at festys).

2. There was no display of aussie furniture at all(only cheap #### imports at the entrance doors), remember we need to attract non woodies too, why not advertise and static display pro made designer wares to attract the yuppies and everyday furniture to attract the familys.

3. Lets face it hands on displays nowdays is an insurance nightmare... dont do it, it drains finances which would be better spent avertising.

4. Advertising... where is it, I did not see 1 bit here?

5. Too many scroll saw based displays.

6. No educational displays to attract the younger folk into the woodwork industy... where was TAFE?

7. We dont like the hawker displays... but they are needed to keep the dollars up, should a surcharge be applied for not being wood related, and have a set ratio of stands between them like 4:1(wood/nonwood), plus put them all in 1 area... so we can steer clear?

8. Working displays, like a pro furniture workshop making wares for sale... watch your furniture being made(yuppies and family types would like that).(I'd actually like to do this but im not a pro yet).

9. More skill based displays... not everyone is into lathe's.
Why not have a workshop safety demonstration, can we ask a safety gear producer like "protector safety" for this... what better way to advertise for them.

10. Only 1 display on finishing gear(UB of course), demo's on finishing products would be nice.

11. Wood supplies at normal prices, the stuff I seen there was ridiculously priced... red gum was about $10k a cube! No local bigname wood suppliers at all... not one?

12. Neil, do DMG canvas for exhibitors or do they just hope for them to apply?

I cant see the problem with the entrance fee, its cheaper than most big shows, and food is always expensive at shows? No point complaining we all pay it.

[Eastie]

I didn't go last year and will likely give it a miss this year.

The two times I've been I spent less than a couple of hundred (from memory), add the petrol, parking and entry fee and based upon these basic financials the bargains simply don;t add up so I don;t see the trip as a bargain hunt. I think the show has missed a market in relation to semi professional and professional carpenters and a few other aspects of timber and wood - one thing that comes to mind is chainsaws and other handy gear for those of us who harvest our own timber from time to time (perhaps it's a niche and me a a couple of my mates are unique?). I've had a look at some of the timber but was discouraged when I asked on stallholder about what seasoning a bit of fairly large timber had recieved - the response: "yeah it's has been air dried for over a year". Demonstrations of some poor bugger repeatedly planing a bit of foreign softwood to produce 6 foot long shavings - not my cup of tea. In fact I'd prefer to have the shoe polishers polish my RM's. That's just a couple of examples. Other than good hand tools/jigs and some of the better quality larger machinery there's thin pickings in relation to trade quality gear at realistic prices (let alone trade prices - I tried to bargain with one mob on $2k worth of gear at the last one I went to and they didn't move 5% from rrp so I put my wallet and cash away). I guess it's a diy type show and that's alll that they aim at.

I go to look at what's new, look at different tools and watch some of the better stand demo's like those from Ubeaut and HNT. I also enjoy the exhibits of the pieces others have made. In my experience there hasn't been anything obviously different between the two shows I went to to attract me back every year. The actual wood working entries are a real eye opener and an inspiration.

[graemecarson]

I go to catch up on all the new goodies, see demos, lust after impossible purchases, to see in the flesh, no metal, the tools and machinery that I have budgeted money for and to generally soak up the atmosphere. I agree that this years Brisbane show was disappointing. I don't remember much of the 2004 show (brain cells diminishing) but in 2005 i spent two whole days there and still didn't see all I wanted to. This year I was there from 10 until three and saw everything. It seemed a lot less interesting and there seemed a lot fewer major interest exhibitors.
I don't like the rag & Bone men either but if it helps subsidise the real interesting stands or means costs don't rise as much for them, then they are useful. Maybe they should be grouped so they can be ignored - that way they'll leave on their own accord. Seriously though - the T&WWW Show is my only must do event of any year - and all my savings (what??) are aimed at having a good dose of woody retail therapy once a year, so too many more like Brisbane last year and goodnight nurse!

Cheers,

Graeme C

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I attend when I can, but that's not often.

My main work tends to be seasonal and when it's on, 'tis an 80 hour week. When it's not on, cash tends to be a problem (either budgetting for upcoming hard times or just coming out of 'em. [sigh]) and I hate going window-shopping without a pile of bricks. ;)

But on the rare times when circumstances permit, I'm there. Why? The bargains are nice, but not the primary reason... I've managed to negotiate similar discounts on the storeroom floors, with less hassles regarding delivery. It is the best place, IMHO, to see the ranges of toys^H^Hools available and to keep up with new developments & techniques. I didn't have much in the way of "social contacts" last time I attended, 3 or 4 years ago, 'twas pre-forum membership. Next time, I'll keep an eye out for the 'at brigade and perhaps that'll give me more reason to shuffle my priorities so I can attend... :D

Even then non-woodie related stalls were fairly prevalent but I can understand the reason behind 'em. As I see it, the bottom line is: they help keep costs down. [shrug] Crowds are a pain, but I can't really see how they can be avoided... they're just a fact of life. Some things ya just can't avoid.

[China]

I try to never miss the show sometimes I can't avoid missing one. With regard to the Adelaide show I beleive it is going to need more days allocated, this year and last year it was so well patronised it was difficult to view much of the stands to them being crowded, more days would hopefully space the patrons out a bit

[savage]

No never been, but that's not to say I do not wish to go!..My son went with his school this year at the Sydney event and I was very jealous that I could not attend. As at the time my wife was undergoing surgery and I was not the best myself, maybe next year!.....:)

[Christopha]

I try to never miss the show sometimes I can't avoid missing one. With regard to the Adelaide show I beleive it is going to need more days allocated, this year and last year it was so well patronised it was difficult to view much of the stands to them being crowded, more days would hopefully space the patrons out a bit

China, me old Chinaplate, MORE days and LONGER days is exactly what we DON'T want. The early woodshows went until all hours of the night, exhibitors were all absolutely exhausted, the demonstrators were exhausted and after 3 days and nights everyones wallets were exhausted. As a regular at the Sydney, Adelaide and Melbourne shows I think that the main thing missing are the displays of work, the great carvings, turnings, cabinetry, etc. etc. IMHO these displays enthuse the general public and make them keen to do similar or at the very least have a bigger "go". This, I am sure would also reflect in the sales for the retailers at the show. Some of the early exhibitions, especially in Melbbourne were absolutely mind blowing and certainly inspired me and I am sure many others....
The food at these shows can be be very ordinary and is always expensive but I am sure that can be blamed on the basic cost of the venue rental just as I am sure it is the reason for expensive stand rental for the exhibitors and the price of the entry...... by the way, how much to watch a movie nowadays and you can only stay for a couple of hours max?
I enjoy the woodshows because I get to spend the time with my friends Neil and Pauline who I think sometimes keep me almost sane, I also enjoy meeting/catching up with many of you uglies. I always "do" the show though to see whats new, who's got what etc. and even if U and Beaut decide they have had enough of me I shall keep turning up and enjoying...

[hooppine]

My wife and I go every year to the Brisbane show and from the remarks from other states it would appear that all they don't like is not here and what they want to see is here. Loved the lady sculptor using the chainsaw one year. Would I not go? No my wife loves them and would drag me there. We have 12 grandkids (6 to 16) who come to our place (SAnta's workshop they call it) every year to make xmas present for their parents and we get lots of ideas for them.:)

I have only one beef and that is we had a high school show there wares and skills one year and would like the exhibitors not charge for the space :( and 'someone' in the industry sponsor a high school skill 'test' or 'competition' or such each year to foster the love of wood.:cool:

I usually buy my specials from Carbatec two weeks beforehand and they guarantee thet if you find it cheaoer at the show they will refund the difference. We mostly buy slab timber for funiture etc or offcut timber for the Santa thing. Anne and Larry

[Zed]

never miss it in Syd and sometimes newcastle.

squishy pillows out. genuine discounts in... the retailers get upset and dont want to offer discounts becauseas you say it costs a motza to attend as stand holder but.....

I like the timber and the timber related stuff
I like the demos
I like to meet the guys

[Sturdee]

I have been to the last 3 shows after an absence of about 10 years when it was still in the Exhibition buildings.

What I don't like:

I personally don't like the current venue as getting into it by car is difficult and parking is expensive, so I go by train. The walking from the station to the building and then all the way to the end along the corridor, and the return walk loaded up with heavy goodies, is not my idea of fun.

Also the long wait in the line to get in, especially last year as I already had tickets was annoying.

Admission price is creeping up every year and becoming too expensive for a poor pensioner.

There are too many non woodwork related stands and there are not large enough spaces around the stands making it difficult to get past some stands because of the crowd.

The fact that most suppliers are not offering discounted show prices, or only 10 % which I can usually negotiate (or even better) direct with them during their normal sales.

If something is bought from an interstate supplier the long delay for the delivery after the show.


What I do like:

Meeting up with fellow woodworkers and Neil, Pauline, and Christopha. They are always great to see.

Comparing tools and stands from the various suppliers.


Would I go this year:

I doubt it, as I'm not buying any tools at the moment but I will regret not meeting and seeing Brendan at his stand this year.


Peter.

[Auld Bassoon]

G'day Neil,

I can certainly appreciate the effort and cost that goes into hosting a stand at an exhibition such as this.

For me it represents several things:

1) a chance to meet, sometimes for the first time, fellow woodies
2) an opportunity to see what is new or revised
3) an opportunity to learn some techniques
4) the possibility of acquiring some goodies for the shed; if at a good price, all the better, but not really the main driver

I could certainly do without the non-woodie stalls though. The show must have a focus, and that focus should be woodworking - both pro and amateur.
5) a chance to look at, poke, prod and generally examine stuff that is otherwise only seen in catalogues or such.

[John G]

I echo most of the reasons already stated. I go to the Melbourne show (and formerly the Canberra show)

Why I go:
- see new products and touch tools in the flesh (I don't live any where near Springvale, so I never visit Carbatec)
- easily compare competing brands
- see demos (such as sharpening demos, or dovetailing demos)
- rummage through the "seconds" displays for a bargain or rare item (like McJings)
- talk shop with the demonstrators

I buy stuff, but usually only small sundry items.

What I don't like/why I would stop going:
- sales prices the same as store prices - I'm looking at you Carbatec, Timbecon and Triton! Is the entry fee paying for the chance at a bargain, or is it for the "priveledge" of having all the sellers in one place? It seems the latter.
- demonstrators who just want to sell rather than talk honestly about the best techniques for a task.
- demonstrators who are rude and dismissive if you are just looking, and don't show much enthusiasm.
- Melbourne location. I agree that Exhibition Centre is crappy location. Apart from the parking expense, etc, it is probably hugely expensive for the exhibitors. To avoid crowds, I take half the day off and go on Friday afternoon (which is convenient for work), but it means I won't buy anything big.

I must say I've never really noticed the pillow sellers - I just ignore them. Although agree that if the theme becomes diluted, it would be reason to stop going. (The same reason I stop watching lifestyle channel - yankee workshop :( )

Where I can sympathise with stall holders:
- Advertising? Haven't seen a thing.
- Cost of exhibiting. Is this really the reason there are never any real bargains? Or as Gumby has said, would discounting mean people hold off all purchases until once a year?

My Advice:
- Advertise!!!!
- If cost is preventing more "real" exhibitors attending, or preventing any real bargains being had, then get a new venue! I'm sure there is a big shed near the airport or somewhere than can be rented. To the guys who drive in from albury or ballarat, I hardly think a central city location is a huge advantage. It might also help keep some of the pillow sellers away.

[Chesand]

I usually go every year - sometimes twice as I am lucky enough to get free tickets. Holiday being delayed this year until after Melb show.
I go to see what is new, demonstrations, and to lust after tools and machines that I do not really need or that I do not have room for.
I just ignore the irrelevant stands.

[robbiewy]

Only been into woodwork for 18 months or so didn’t know about the woodwork show until this forum and ptc said it’s cancelled in Tassie anyway if it was on I would go for a look.

[cedar n silky]

I went to the Brizzy TWWWS this year, for the first time, but definately not the last. It was better than i ever thought it would be. Iwent to a "what I thought was" a timber show in Darling Harbour in Sydney, maybe 15 or so years back, and it was huge, but it was all computerised lathes and copiers, huge trade stalls, and completely over the top. Left very dissapointed! The Brrizzy show was perfect. All the demonstrations from the best woodworkers and turners, the clubs, and the trade stands, were a great mix of exactly what I was interested in! I spent Heaps$$- I learnt lots- and I met lots of like minded people. And there wasa great range of timbers and and machines to check out.

[Baz]

I go every year mainly to buy timber (thanks Malcom), I have noticed over the past few years that the show (Canberra) is getting smaller, this year the Tassie timber mob were not there, maybe with our population it needs to be held every 2 years or better still only over 2 days. Would hate to see it go.
Cheers
Barry

[fxst]

only go every few years due to the tyranny of distance and not as young as we used to be ...3.5 hrs to get there then walk around find something suitable to eat then anoter 3.5 hrs to get home.
There are 3 of us so cost isnt a prob as we share expenses.
Nowdays we mainly go for the timber that is unavailable here normally and we may get the odd tool though we would prob spend no more than about $500ish each.
Like Al I think the non woodie stuff should be kept in a different area ...mabe outside the venue, like another suburb :D
Costs are reasonable for entry and more scrolling stuff is good :D oh and turning demos etc.
Pete

[oges]

Never used to go to them as I thought it contained things that wouldnt been in my area sort of thing. When I started demonstrating with the CCWT I realised there was something there for all so looked around whilst there.

Went to the Canberra one to check out the difference and to also find if there is a local wood club here. I probably wont be demostrating at the shows anymore but will probably keep on attending to see whats new.

What would make me definately go would be to have a shed and the money to fill it with things

[oges]

I go every year mainly to buy timber (thanks Malcom), I have noticed over the past few years that the show (Canberra) is getting smaller, this year the Tassie timber mob were not there, maybe with our population it needs to be held every 2 years or better still only over 2 days. Would hate to see it go.
Cheers
Barry

But the radio ads said it was bigger and better than last year :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[rgum]

only discovered the woodworking show in recent yrs. Love to go. Are they an expensive rip off to get in ? otherwise i wont go. 10 to 12 dollars to get in is ok aint it? Rgum....Tony.

[graemet]

Why go?
Comparison shopping on tools and equipment.
To see if there is anything innovative that I haven't seen before.
To meet up with other Forumites.
To buy timber that needs to be seen before putting up the hard earned.
To ask questions of the exhibitors.

Why not go?
More and more no-shows from firms I want to see (quoting: It's too expensive for the return)

I certainly don't blame those exhibitors who have found it doesn't pay them to outlay the cost of a stand. I think the organisers have found a ready source of income and are milking it to the max, knowing that there will be a certain group of visitors and exhibitors who will go anyway. They don't seem to realise that making it more expensive for all will eventually result in a very poor show with very few paying participants. Keeping costs down would ensure a big show with a life of many more years.
Cheers
Graeme

[David L]

I agree the non Woody stuff should not be banned as they help the promoters spread the cost, and can be interesting & usefull to some people even woodies. But I think it should be in a seperate area.

I would like to attend each year but that depends on health.

Unfortunately I only have a small budget but always come home with a few things, last time about $200 worth.

It is a good opotunity to see what is avaliable & new and learn new things.

Also to pick up catalogues and brocures.

Most of the equipment in my workshop I bought after seeing it at a WWW.

I hate buying site unseen so dont like on-line shoping.

I would buy out of a catalogue if I had examined the article first perhaps at a WWW.

WOW is'nt the food expensive?

Show specials are good, ther is only so mutch to spend be it at a show or any other time.

David

[Groggy]

I go every year to see what is new or to learn something. I do it for a hobby and enjoy spending a day (or two) just putzing around looking at stuff I (usually) can't afford.

This year though I am disappointed. A number of companies are trying to get in with specials before the show. I have read some comments made earlier in another thread and have decided that, IMHO, this is the wrong thing to do. The shows are to exhibit new tools, create sales for retailers and inform the public, but they are also there to help promote woodworking generally.

When a bunch of companies decide to hold sales just before the show, and reduce their presence there, the ww'ing public lose out. Also, longer term, the retailers lose out.

The retailers will point to the organisers and say the fees are too high and they are being gouged, after all, they want to profit from the event.

Whichever viewpoint you take, woodworkers lose out, and the show is about woodworking isn't it? Otherwise they'd call it a retailers and exhibitors show, wouldn't they?

I guess my point is that the industry needs to invest in new woodworkers and generate interest to be healthy overall. Like UBeaut does with this BB, I bet Neil doesn't profit from this site, but the information it provides has helped a generation of woodworkers.

Finally, for those who hold their sales early and don't attend, I for one will note your absence this year and strike you from my Christmas list. I wonder who will be noted by their absence, perhaps another thread to discuss it after the show.

[Rosethorn]

I have been on both sides of the fence as buyer and demonstrator and seller at the WWW shows. The main reason as a retailer to do the shows is to get your name/product out there and be visable to the public and sell - not really sure it is to promote woodworking as such. DMG charge a small ransom for retailers to sell at the Wood shows, the food is expensive and in most cases crap- particulary Brisbane, Sydney at Fox has great food choices, but the venue is too small and transport is a nightmare. The new Sydney showgrounds were a much better venue. Much more could be done to promote woodworking by having more furniture, wood ,exhibits from schools, competitions etc. Get rid of the stuff that isn't related to wood eg. shoe polish!!! The demos and how to's are really good and there needs more of them. I think the cost of getting into the shows is too high, considering that the public is there to spend money and most of the costs for the show are paid for by the retailers & sellers who are there. Promotors need to get their heads around ' if it is cheaper for those to get in or to sell stuff, more people will turn up to either buy or sell'.
I like going to the shows to catch up with people and to see new stuff on the market and to be able to compare machines etc. I usually have a budget that I seem to blow every year. Oh well, that's what budgets are for.
cheers rosethorn

[Cliff Rogers]

Oooo, I just thought of another reason.... 'her inside' is NOT interested. :D

If I fly to Brissy for the show, I make a long weekend of it have a escape. :p

[David L]

I forgot to mention Advertising.
What Advertising?
Last show the only mention I saw of it was in The Road Ahead, our motoring organisation mag What's on page and on Bris radio the weekend of the event.

No time for forward planning then.!!

David

[durwood]

I have been going to the Sydney wood shows for about 5 years, Missed one year but went to Canberra instead.

Was disappointed with this years show it was crowded and appeared to me to be a poorer display than the year before. I don't like the venue its a pain driving to it and getting away in the traffic in the afternoon.

I like to check out new products, tools etc but there was little if anything new there. I thought some of the new products that had appeared overseas the year before which you can see on the net would have been present this year but I don't think there was one thing that wasn't old hat there. The specific things I wanted to check out weren't there. Even those who attended only had some of their stock.

Eg Ryobi; I was interested to check out their small battery powered circular saw. Didn't bring one! So it was with other things I was intending buying. I know its not possible to have everything available but why only bring some of your range.

As for the crowding, I understand the size of the stall governs the price but the stalls are so cramped its hard to get around. Take the Timbecon stand. They have lots of stuff but its so squeezed up its hard to get to the equipment let alone around it to view it. If the organizers gave the exhibitors more room it would would certainly help.


I think I will limit my attendance to one every 2 or 3 years from now on.

[Bluegum]

I have been every 2nd year or so as it all depends on family and work commitments. I enjoy getting out to see what new stuff is available from the major suppliers down to the smaller operators. I first went here in Brisbane in 04 and then again this year. Both times I picked up a few good buys even adding on admission I still came out in front. I do enjoy the demos and the chance to talk to the people that bought some great products into our woodworking life. This year I was able to speak to Roger Gifkins and learn enough that his jig will be something worth while buying in the future. As well as Roger I met the Neil and and was able have a yack to them. I have been to the Sydney show a few times when I lived there and found it great. I do plan on trying to get there next year but that will depend on the family as we will have a little bluegum around then. My only regret is I don't have a ute to bring home all the timbers that catch my eye.:D :D

[Clinton1]

I go because its a fairly decent day out and I get to see some new things. I take the opportunity to have a look at the Pollyanna (the wooden ship opp the Melb location), and get my food and drink down by Southbank.

Things I like:
- to see pretty much any of the tools I'm thinking of buying at the one place (if one place won't have it the next stall will),
- to check out a few different species of timber against each other for comparison and seeing if different grain combinations work,
- I think the demo's are worth the entry price, and usually plan my wandering aimlessly about to fit around the demo's I want to see,
- its a good opportunity to check out the products of suppliers that I might not have come across before.

Having the ww forum hat means that I can get to say g'day to a few other retrobates and the shows a good place to meet.

If there are any more junk 'spruikers' selling stuff at future shows I will probably consider the show to be on par with the Royal Show sideshow alley. I'm not interested in that and if the organisers can not sort out their business case to generate other revenue raisers.... I'll probably start planning different activities.

I believe that Forestry (private and state) should be setting up a stall at the shows and using the opportunity to communicate with the public about the forest management practices.

[chrisb691]

Had my first visit to the Melb WWS last year. Spent all day Friday there, and was in pig heaven. Was also there 1/2 Saturday/Sunday, but was demonstrating on the Marquetry Society's stand, but snuck off as much as I could.

Spent more than I intended, but got excellent value for the dough. Looked at everthing I could find, and learned heaps. Above all, loved meeting, and talking to lots of different people, the majority of whom were willing to share their time with me, even though they weren't going to get a sale out of it. Woodies are just the best!!!

[ss_11000]

well...i only got into turning at the end of last yr so i missed out on the sydney show for last yr. this yr i didn't go because i couldn't get down there. i was actually thinking of asking the IA teachers to organise an excursion for next yr.

one thing i think is wrong ( even tho i've never been to one ) is advertisement. i live 2 hrs away from the closest one and if it wasn't for the forum, i would never had known it was on.

they sound good though and i will definately try to get there next yr. only reason i didn't go this yr is because of sporting commitments and no transport to get there.

cheers

ps. i went to the newcastle expo and will continue to every yr.
for many reasons including: ubeaut products, forumites, ct, mik, demo's, timber, displayed work, wood turning stores, and several other places.
things i didn't like were prices for food and drink. cant complain about other stores ( non ww related) because it was also a craft expo.

bye

[designerboy]

I love the hands on (the feel of the Lie Neilsen Planes, the feel of Terry Gordons spokeshaves), the demonstrations (both woodworking and tool flogging). But I agree with all regarding the non woodwork related gizmos. They should sod off and keep it strictly a woodworking and tool-fest. This years Sydney WWW show saw me leave with some pretty green and grey boxes, and a Colen Clenton cutting gauge - all of which have been a delight to use (No pre-association to either supplier - for the record).

[PPW]

I always wear sneakers or runners at most exhibitions or shows just to avoid the shoe cleaning crews.

[Bondy1s]

Love to go but with work and family commitments and living in the bush I find it hard to get my huge agenda into my very tight schedule.

[himzol]

I try and get to as many as possible, this year I managed to sneak into the Sydney one for a few hours but wasn't able to buy anything as I had to catch a plane home. I was hopeing to get to the Melbourne show this year as well but that plan is looking shaky (hope springs eternal).

As for why I go, simple - all that information in one place.

why I wouldn't go, a decrease in quality exhibits.

I don't expect bargains (I'll take them if I can), but it is a chance to compare products from different ditributors. And coming from SA I don't often get to see many different types of timber in one location.

[Toggy]

Go to check and compare products. Purchase items not available locally (if their price is favourable).

Travel by bus, but even the parking around Jeffs Shed is getting worse for the buses.

If the venue has shrunk any further (floor space & exhibitors) the food situation worse and the overcrowding worse; it will be my last attendance.

It has been a good chance to see interstate shop products in the flesh; but with the restricted space and overcrowding as well as poor venue location why bother.

It would seem that the promoters are only interested in the almighty dollar and see nothing wrong with bleeding both exhibitor and visitor for as much as possible.

For the outlandish costs for the exhibitors some advertising and a couple of decent sales a year would possibly be a better way to go.

Ken

[dai sensei]

Why do I go?

To stock up on UBeaut supplies
To check out any newly-released tools and equipment, new (to me) inventions and ideas
To stock up on any other supplies needed, check out the supplier and goods before purchasing online from them
To find new suppliers
To pick up some interesting pieces of timber
To support the woodturning/worker clubs by buying something from their stands
To meet & catch up with fellow woodworkers
To keep up to date with what's around, what's happenening, get new catalogues and training brochures
To get new ideas
To pick up any great specials I just can't be without


Why wouldn't I go

Too sick to drive
Act of God


What I'd like to see more of?
Displays of woodwork
More interesting & rare pieces of timber
Artists in Action - eg someone building something throughout the whole weekend

Cheers & Thanks for the chance to give some feedback.

Wendy

ditto

I go every year for 2 days, just so I can meet more friends from the forum.

[Lignum]

I have lost interest in the last 5 years because when you go their is nothing realy new to see (already seen it at carbi-tec - wwwhouse, mags etc) Their are no realy good demos to see, and most importantly, no furniture on display (this year is different) so i hope its worth while.

The three good things are - Nice and close to the train so its a quick easy walk (some have said its a long way from spencer st (catch the tram then) and a long walk up the corridore, they should look at getting off their bum and get a bit fitter:D ) Also great to catch up with fellow woodies, and best of all, its just over the road from the Casino:)

[jchappo]

I have been to the last two in Sydney.

I enjoy a day out by myself, and love looking at all the tools and gizmos.

I especially like the demos and seminars, but don't usually spend more than about $50 - I prefer to research my major purchases and buy at my leisure.

Looking forward to next year.

John

[Squirrel]

I have been to a couple (Sydney) and have spent an average of a couple of hundred at each. I am more of an impulse buyer for the smaller handy type items. Get very dissapointed when your ready to hand over the cash and get told that "Out of stock can send it to you in 3 - 4 weeks" would then walk out empty handed.

Love walking around and comparing different and new hand tools. But this can be a bit reputitous as I can just walk in to the local store and see the same items for free.

Dissapointed that the idea a getting a better than normal deal is out the window, getting hard to justify a $10 discount when it cost about $50 to get in the front door (entry, transport, parking).

In the early days would always have people fighting to get a seat in the car now I travel alone.

[gazaly]

Bloody 'ell. Nearly 100 post and less than one hands worth from the West. We'll never get the national show at this rate!!!!!!!!

[soundman]

I was beginning to lose interest till we started having the members gathering & meeting.... hats... and so forth.

Last year I went three days running and had a great time... spent more than I should.... but saw what others were buying & thats almos as good as buying it myself:D

Its good for buying stuff from southern suppliers that you don't otherwise see and withouit the freight.


bad stuff
I heard some people were stung for freight on stuff that wasn't on hand..... what a load of BS why would andbody want to buy at the wood show and pay freight.:mad:

The various gadget men can be a pain in the kneck.....I don't mind a hard sell gadget man (someone has to seperate fools from their money) but completely unrelated stuff is stupid......... it deprives ligitimate woodwork sellers of market because some of the spend is consumed by ..."non core" purchases.
If I was an exhibitor I would be about these guys being there because they'd be taking money out of my till.




:eek: :eek:
Dummy spit warning.
please put on spatter protection.


:mad: The worst.:mad:
Hopeless, pitifull, good money wasted and a total disapointment.
The staging and presentation of the lectures and demonstrations. From start to finish the whole thing is discusting an insult to the skill of the demonstrator/lecturer.

Firstly the public address sound is atricious, inadequate, distorted, on the verge of feedback, not loud enough, not clear in the least, cheap, nasty and total and utter CRAP.

the presentation of the lecture area would not pass muster at a local church fete. The ladies auxiluary would run you out of town. No jam & scones for you.

Visability is poor, seating is far too limited.
the whole thing is flat, neither the presenter nor the audience being elivated, hopeless

the use of video if at all is crude, ugly and of limited effectiveness.

the Visual presentation of the area is dirty and uggly..... I've no idea waht the sponsors think.

This is probaly the biggest woodworking event in the country.
We have some of the best craftsmen, presenters and educators in the country being paid to present and they are presented in a pig pen.

come on this is well into the 21st century.
Even the smallest churches, schools and offices have decent AV facilities.

If only 1 decent lecture theatre was set up, probaly multiple stage, with a decent amount of seating proper staging, even half decent sound, proper visual aids some decent set dressing, and properly merchandised for the sponsor/s.
I would have it run almost continuously, probably with a compare with proper sponsor integration... thats where you would get the money.

I would even go further and say have the thing properly crewed and stage managed.
I might think about stopping to listen to what is being said.
As it is soo many people just can't be bothered and keep walking.

the only bloke that come out of the demo thing looking half good is Big Stan & thats only because he has a mostly visual presentation and he has a personality as big as the great out doors. Give the man a decent PA system and a small grand stand & he would fill it over and over.

I speak of what I have seen at the brisbane show.
None of this is hard none of this is expensive (if done right).

Can I do better..... HELL YEAH..... if approched I would consider contracting to do it..... ( for a suitable fee)


Dummy spit ends.
you may remove spatter protection
:D
cheers

[Cliff Rogers]

Bloody 'ell. Nearly 100 post and less than one hands worth from the West. We'll never get the national show at this rate!!!!!!!!

's'only been going for 25 or 26 years over here... you'll get it soon. ;) :p

[bsrlee]

I try to get to the Sydney shows, although I have missed the odd year. When I go I usually go for 2 days, so a multi-day pass would be nice - or maybe I shouldn't wash my hands to preserve the 'pass-out' stamp:D

I really like the ability to compare the products imported by the various dealers, bargains are nice & there is also the chance to save an extra hundred on shipping if I can organise a friend to come & pick it up. I have regularly spent $2000 over the two days - usually Friday & Sunday, with Saturday devoted to will-I-won't-I internal debate. You can recognise me by the shopping trolley full of clamps etc that I push around (and then have to get on the bus & train home :rolleyes: ) So I do miss Hare & Forbes, and he seeming shrinkage of some trade stands. There is also a problem I found with some stands not being easy to tell where they started & stopped - this is probably the stand owners need to address with clear signage.

Yes, I could do with a few less non-woodworking gadget stands - I have bought the odd hedge chopper - I find the relatively large number of junk stands selling the same item - I don't need 5 or 6 stands selling the wonder paint brush or Zyliss Vises. The big marquee bargain bin sellers outside are not too bad, you don't have to fight your way past mesmerised crowds to get to the stands you want to see, and there is the odd worthwhile item - I stock up on cheap casters at Nav Imports for instance.

I also enjoy the demo's, at least the ones that are on when I have time to sit & enjoy. I didn't enjoy the dweeb whinging ' why don't they show something interesting' all the time - if he didn't like it he should have moved on.

[Bob Willson]

You'd be the first one to scream when the entry price doubled :rolleyes:

Pure assumption on your part Gumby. Fewer snake oil salesman does not necessarily equal higher entry prices. Indeed, a case could be made for the exact opposite that showed that the exclusion of the snakeys would double the number of entrys and therefore halve (in your dreams baby) the entry fee. :p

[Cliff Rogers]

I was beginning to lose interest till we started having the members gathering & meeting.... hats... and so forth...
That is one of the highlights & would be even better if somebody had NOT left the chocolate muffins at home. :cool:


If I was an exhibitor I would be about these guys being there because they'd be taking money out of my till.
....
They help pay the costs of the show, ignore them.




:eek: :eek:
Dummy spit warning.
please put on spatter protection.

Rave rave rave rave rave rave rave rave rave rave rva e fert... where was I ? Oh, rave rave rave rave rave rave......


Dummy spit ends.
you my remove spatter protection
....
Feel better now? :D

[Sir Stinkalot]

Well I think most of it has been mentioned already ..... but hey what the hell.

I have been going to Melbourne for a few years ...... the first year I was blown away as there was so much to see ..... as I was looking at making machinery purchases it was a great time. The following years when I didn't need to purchase anything tended to take the gloss off.

Ok here is my list in no particular order (except for #1):

1. Get rid of non woodworking related stores.

2. Organisers need to realise that patrons are interested in woodworking ..... not just a collection of woodworking stores. Bringing a collection of the woodworking stores across the country under one roof isn't enough to create an interested woodworking show ......

3. Entry price is acceptable. It is busy enough already, imagine what would happen if they dropped the price, you would get thousands more people with nothing better to do. Perhaps there could be a partial refund on your ticket price when you make a purchase.

4. It would be good to see some space allocated for woodworking clubs to run displays and information. Its a great opportunity for local clubs to be able to show interested patrons that they are out and about. One on my favourite displays is the local woodworking group with home made products for sale.

5. Locate demonstrations away from retailers so it is possible to hear what is going on. I was watching a turning demo last year and his microphone kept getting crossed with the stupid special paint roller guy. Perhaps use partitions to contain the demos.

6. Provide discounts on display space to encourage retailers to attend.

7. Displays of work by woodworkers is often more interesting than machinery. It is inspiring to view items that are made by other woodies. A school display would also showcase up and coming talent. The floor space put aside for these displays may not generate the income of a store for the organisers, however keeping the general public interested will ensure regular patronage.

If the committee is generally interested in feedback they should search these forums as there has been continual feedback provided by a number of members within hours of visiting the shows, some of it good, some not so good.

[Mirboo]

I've only been to the last 2 Sydney shows.

I go to check out what's new in terms of tools and equipment mainly. I'm into hand tools so I like checking out stands like Lie-Nielsen, HNT Gordon and Colen Clenton. I don't really buy much when I'm there, usually I'm just looking. I also like checking out the displays of people's work.

I would like to see it dedicated to just Timber and Wood related stuff, get rid of all the mops, squishy pillows and the like.

[gazaly]

They help pay the costs of the show, ignore them.

Spot on. Like the guys selling the vice that does everything AND makes you a brew........:D



's'only been going for 25 or 26 years over here... you'll get it soon. ;) :p


Har De Har Har. Got 'tricity to ya shed yet? :cool: :p

[Justin]

I take an annual leave day off work for the Friday session, and tell my boss that it's a religious holiday that I must observe (truly ruly, but then I fess up about it being a woodworking expo). They know what a nutter I am about woodwork so no probs.

The number one reason I attend is for the specials. I plan my major purchases around this yearly event, and have spent between five hundred bucks and five grand on various attendances. The average spend is decreasing in proportion with the shed filling up though....

Other reasons for attendance :

- Just to immerse myself in all things wood-ish. Like most other guys I read the mags, spend plenty time on the net etc but there's no substitute for seeing stuff in the flesh.
- I like to check out the interstate supplier's offerings
- The sheer scale is great, so many things under the one roof
- The chance to support this forum by making a few purchases from the Ubeaut stand.
- Looking at the timber for sale but to be honest, it's either so cheap and in such small supply that it's sold within a few hours, or such a ridiculously over inflated price that by Sunday (yes I have double visited on occasion) there's two or three crossed out prices marking it down for a sale. I can get much better value elsewhere.
- Pick up contacts for businesses that I haven't heard of before.

Stuff I don't like :

- Tyre kickers that want to crap on to the staff for half an hour about the one small hand tool that they're agonising over, without having done their research and formed a plan beforehand. I just want a few minutes to confirm some salient points that I couldn't have ascertained beforehand, or discuss any surpises that may have come about by a look & feel. I fully acknowledge everyone's right for a fair go - but what about my fair go when I'm standing around waiting to get a word in edgewise ?
- Too many snake oil sales stalls (the super duper hyper expensive swiss clamp, the miracle paint brush pad, the pruning saw). It's a woodwork expo for chrissake.......I realise that these stalls defray the costs for the legit operators, but they also burn floorspace, which is the one true commodity that's actually being sold here !
- Demonstrations always full, and not able to be seen and/or heard from the back. Unless you get in and plant your a$$ on a good seat really early, I find that the interesting demos fill up super fast and don't have enough capacity for the number of people that want to see them. I reckon the organisers should provide some A/V gear so that what's being demo'd can be seen and heard on a big screen above the presenter. More seats are needed too - but I guess that burns floor space that the organisers would otherwise make money on.
- The usual gripe about food. It's $hite, and way too expensive. Yet again, this is probably another tightly regulated ,contractually obligated, money spinner.
- Taking a leaf from the entertainment industry here, there's no dedicated "chill out" areas. After trudging around for hours I get a bit footsore, and the only options for a sit down are : (a) in a demo area, not really fair on others if you're there for a rest not for the demo (b) in the meals area where you're getting stared at if you're not stuffing you're face (c) on the floor somewhere where you're scared of tripping over some septagenarian, flanny wearing, half blind grumpy old codger.
- Reading about stallholders getting gouged on fees. The organisers are going to strangle the goose that lays the golden egg if they're not a bit more realistic.

Things that I'd like to see :

- Some kind of expanded timber sales, perhaps auctions. This is after all the raw material that feeds virtually every stall in the expo, and I reckon there's a big opportunity for reasonably priced timber to be moved in large volumes given the thousands of people that attend.
- Centralised delivery services. Why shouldn't a single delivery service co-ordinate all deliveries to people that want stuff on their doorstep ? The economies of scale could be enormous if it's organised in an efficient and logistically practical way.
- More representation on pro gear and suppliers. I reckon a lot of the customer demographic are fairly low rent in terms of average spend, so pitching to professionals might be a good way of ensuring sustainable attendance by some stallholders. Maybe not to the level of CAD/CAM megadollar machines, but tradies that need good gear which is a cut above hobbyist equipment.

Thanks for the opportunity to participate in the discussion, I hope it adds some value to the show.

Cheers,


Justin.

[Aussiephil]

Went to my first one this year in Canberra.

Now i realise that the ACT one is smaller with less stands.

Why did i go... in priority order

The presentations and demos
To check out the wood on sale
To buy a DC
To see and drowl over some of the tools
To see if there was any bargains


What did i dislike...
The advertised demos on the power tools, planner thicknesser etc were thinly disguised and badly done sales pitches by the vendor and not worth listening to.
The sameness of the products from carb-tec and timbecon.
The lack of real sale specials, although full marks to timbecon for knocking 10% off all the router bits and plate i bought, without asking.


What disappointed...
How the pricing on the wood outside seemed to plummet later on the Sunday. does this mean that the original price was excessive or hopefull.
I noticed this as i attended all three days

The Venue was really too small with everything feeling cramped.

What i liked...
Richard Vaughan's presentations were wonderful and keep me occupied most of Friday.
The turning demos were good bit outside my sphere of interest this year
The gentleman doing the demo of working with wood the old ways was just fantastic.

Will i go again...
Yes, the price was fine but it was a pain not to be able to buy a three day pass out the front. Also as a cashless person it was just luck i had cash for the ticket!

Not sure i fully agree that the non woodworking vendors be excluded as this provides a little slice of something else for family members that may not be totally into woodwork, it's easy to ignore them anyway.

Improvements...
More or better displays of actual woodwork.

Phil

[journeyman Mick]

I've been to a couple of the Brisbane ones. I'd go again if I was in Brisbane (or Sydney, Newcastle, Canberra), but living more than 2000 kms away means I can really only go if I'm there for other reasons (holidays or business).

The non-woodwork stalls don't really bother me, but I do believe that they should be limited to, say, 25% or less of the total stall area. I believe that if the level gets too high then it will definitely have an adverse affect. Ie: perception of cheap flea market.

Why I've gone: Exposure to new products, keep up to date on products, materials, suppliers.

Why I'd go again: As above, plus to meet fellow forumites, and of course to meet U & Beaut to say g'day and a big thank you.

"Show special" prices aren't really a consideration for me, as a commercial operator I tend to buy machinery and tools as required, however smaller items would be considered.

Mick