Biggles 16th March 2003, 01:13 PM Hi All !
I am interested in the purchase of a higher end biscuit joiner (Makita & Dewalt seem the more popular choice) and I was wondering if anyone can shed some light into any problems, quirks or comparisons of the two. I have noticed that the Makita has a solid looking fence at the front while the Dewalt seems "finer" ?. I will be working with both solid timber (Redgum, Vic Ash etc) and manufactured boards. Any thoughts ? I have decided that I've got enough bikkies (pardon the pun!!) so lets go shopping!!!!!!!!!
Thanks in advance.:)
derekcohen 16th March 2003, 09:46 PM Biggles
Of the Makita or De Walt my choice would be for the De Walt as the fence is the better one. Both are equally reliable as far as I know.
If you want a real HIGH END biscuit joiner, then get a LAMELLO. I saw one advertised in a Carba-Tec flyer. Not sure which model, but the price was $750.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Eastie 17th March 2003, 09:18 AM I have a makita and have never had a problem with it.
The fence does everything you expect it to do.
These are both tools designed for regular commercial use.
Ask for a mirror to see which one looks best on you :D
(seriously - you would be splitting hairs comparing the features/service)
coastie 17th March 2003, 02:04 PM Doesn't the Lamello use non standard biscuits?
Robert WA 17th March 2003, 02:47 PM Biscuit joiners (plate joiners) were reviewed in Workbench #272 August 2002. The units tested were:
Porter Cable 557,
Lamello Classic C2,
Makita 3901,
DeWalt DW682,
Craftsman Professional,
Freud JS102, and
Ryobi JM81.
Porter Cable was the final recommendation and Makita was considered top value.
www.WorkbenchMagazine.com may be worth a look before you make your decision.
Stuart 17th March 2003, 04:29 PM 'course if you were really serious, you'd get an orange one.
John Saxton 20th March 2003, 03:31 PM Hi Biggles,I would definately consider the Lamello given that bickies aren't a problem.
They have a couple of models to choose from and are a quality made product and are the original designers of the concept.
I have a Makita and am more than happy with it's performance and accuracy over the 4/5 years that I've had it.
Have looked at the DeWalt and it appears to be a well designed and functional machine but I do not know how it performance or accuracy etc.
Good luck in your choice.
Cheers:)
Biggles 21st March 2003, 08:01 PM Thanks Guys for your input. I am pretty sure that the purchase will be the Makita... It seems about right in price and from the input I've recieved both on the forum and from users seems the way to go for reliability and accuracy. I have also used this model at a company I was working for a while back making Redgum and Jarrah furniture. Seems the way to go sticking with something you know that works well and reliably. Cutting this stuff would test it out as it was used constantly (seem to remember the dust bag filled up quick tho!!!) Thanks again for your input:p
Biggles 21st March 2003, 09:01 PM Btw has anyone done much purchasing of power tools over the internet. I have never purchased online before. I know that tools oversea's (US) use different voltage so thats not an option but are warranties and insurance for postage etc a problem. Will be interesting to know if much is done in Australia - Interstate for example and if its viable. Thanks in advance:confused:
fxst 21st March 2003, 09:55 PM biggles because of my location I do it a lot tools equipment all sorts of goodies scrollsaw blades from the states milling tools from OS and then theres H&F carbatc timbercon Ubeaut etc
I prefer to order online as it seems quicker
Pete
Biggles 21st March 2003, 10:13 PM I was under the impression that the US used a different voltage 115v if I remember correctly??? dont quote me tho...is it a different motor?? im not an electrician so i dont know the details?
Thanks for the quick reply:confused:
Dennis Hill 22nd March 2003, 07:23 AM Yes, the USofA uses 110volts and we use 240volts. You can buy a transformer to change 240 to 110 but they cost money. I have such an animal, it came out of an OLD accounting machine and only requires a minor hernia to move it.
I think that you may be able to get some 220volt tools ex USA but then you need to change plugs and where do you go for spare parts and waranty etc?
Good luck.
PS. Dewalt is really a black and yellow Black and Decker. I rest my case.:D
coastie 22nd March 2003, 03:05 PM That's right only now they have Eugene Lutz working for them designing their tools.
(Eugene Lutz for those that may not know was the brains behind Elu tools)
How many of his drop saws are still in use by chippies throughout Australia!
Dennis Hill 22nd March 2003, 06:43 PM Ah, yes, Elu tools. Fantastic design and build quality. Sadly Mr Lutz is only the designer, not the persom who makes the decisions about the amount of work, and where that work is performed, of the tools.
Sadly for us the bean counters rule the world. Elu tools are now history. Lutz tools have emerged from the corporate ashes to supply the tool quality that was lost when Dack&Blecker gobbled up another company to add to their empire.
We shal see the outcome in the future, for better or worse. :(
derekcohen 22nd March 2003, 07:20 PM Guys and girls
While De Walt tools are now a subsidory of B&D, they continue to allign themselves with their Elu roots. That is, as an upper market brand. I own an Elu 177e router, which was the doyan of routers when I purchased it some 10 years ago. It has provided flawless service since then and remains competition for the latest designs. This same router was continued by De Walt and, as far as I am aware, is still sold as their top-of-the-range model. I always lusted over Elu tools but, unfortunately, they were off the market (under this brand name) by the time I could afford them. I have read with interest the reviews of De Walt equipment and, for the most part, they continue to maintain an enviable reputation. Their biscuit joiner is no exception. It is a quality tool and, in particular, has had rave reviews for the design of its fence. Don't knock De Walt as another B&D tool. I don't think this is a fair comparison. The makita biscuit joiner (above) is an equal of the DW biscuit joiner. They cost the same and I think it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other to say which is best. On the other hand, when reviews are published of all makes of biscuit joiners, the Lamello is consistently considered to be without peer. It was the original biscuit joiner, and this Swiss company has made sure that it stays at the head of the class. If I was to invest in a serious biscuit joiner, this is what I would purchase. From my own perspective, I don't use one a whole lot. For my limited needs I have a GMC (a DW knock off) which has provided very satisfactory service.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Iain 23rd March 2003, 02:42 PM Don't forget that US tools are also 60hz and not 50hz and this can create a whole new set of problems.
A transformer is not neccessarily the answer.
I buy my scroll saw blades from the US and the voltage does not seem to be a problem with them :D
Robert WA 23rd March 2003, 02:48 PM Funny thing that, Iain.
Last time I was in the US, I bought a set of cabinet scrapers and a carpenters apron. They work fine with our 240 volt 50 cycle system.
Robert
kenmil 23rd March 2003, 05:54 PM Originally posted by Iain
Don't forget that US tools are also 60hz and not 50hz and this can create a whole new set of problems.
A transformer is not neccessarily the answer.
I buy my scroll saw blades from the US and the voltage does not seem to be a problem with them :D
The Hz is not the main problem, its the Amps that the tool draws. Converting 230 volts to 110-120 is easy, and can be achieved with a $35 transformer plug from Dick Smith, but the amps are inadequate to drive the tool.
A voltage transformer which will deliver 6 or 7 amps at 110 volts will cost you about $450 in Australia, if you can find one. (They only cost US$80 in the USA, but cost another US$120 to get them here, so back to square one):(
Biggles 23rd March 2003, 06:59 PM I'm sure that buying in Australia would help the local economy a bit (even though they are overseas tools anyway!!!!) and voltage/amps wouldnt be a problem.:)
Dennis Hill 23rd March 2003, 07:48 PM Whaddya mean, the 240 volts dont affect the scroll saw blades?
According to Ohm's law they will melt twice as fast if you hook them directly across the 240 than they would if you hooked them across that piddly 110 volts. Bloody things are nowhere as good as fence wire for fuses either!:D :confused: ;) .
Oh, because the current drawn by the tool is double what our tools draw (because the voltage is halved and Mr Ohm's law says Power = Current X Voltage) a tool that we would rate at 10 amps, like a saw or a big router, will draw at least 20 amps in the USA. That equals a BIG transformer with a suitably impressive price tag.
I am not so sure about the apron though, I reckon that our moths may be better than those Yankee critters.
Keep on smiling.
:) :D :)
kenmil 23rd March 2003, 08:20 PM Originally posted by Biggles
I'm sure that buying in Australia would help the local economy a bit (even though they are overseas tools anyway!!!!) and voltage/amps wouldnt be a problem.:)
Don't be fooled by all the jingoistic "Buy Australian" nonsense Biggles. Importers pay duties and taxes to the government, employ staff and keep shipping agents and customs officers in a job. Imported is not a dirty word. I always buy the best I can get at the best price, and that nearly always means buying "non-Australian". Damn volts/amps/watts/ohms/herz problems are a nuisance though.
Biggles 23rd March 2003, 08:32 PM totally agree Ken thats why I'd rather buy in Australia.I meant that they are oversea's made products
Stuart 24th March 2003, 09:53 AM Don't think the hertz issue is a problem (unless your scroll saw has a clock in it- runs faster on 60Hz! (ok, not in all cases, but is true if the clock is mechanical (ie has a motor), driven by mains power)):cool:
DarrylF 5th April 2003, 09:46 PM I have a DeWalt - upgraded from the GMC when it died - and I've been very happy with it. I don't think you could go wrong with either the DeWalt or the Makita.
geoffbarker 1st May 2003, 03:26 PM Originally posted by DarrylF
I have a DeWalt - upgraded from the GMC when it died - and I've been very happy with it. I don't think you could go wrong with either the DeWalt or the Makita.
how long did the GMC last before it died?
What model and price was it?
Ta
DarrylF 1st May 2003, 11:23 PM The GMC didn't exactly die. It took me a couple months to finally give up on trying to get it adjusted right - I couldn't get the fence parallel with the blade, so it wouldn't produce a decent joint. From what I've heard it's a common problem.
I believe they only make one model, and it was around $160.
Without an accurate fence a biscuit joiner is bloody frustrating and next to useless. I'd give it a miss and save the extra for a Makita or Dewalt.
Stuart 2nd May 2003, 10:13 AM Have you contacted GMC about the problem(s) you were experiencing- from experience that I and others have had of their customer-focussed service, they will be very accomodating.
If you can't be bothered, throw the GMC my way! :D
geoffbarker 2nd May 2003, 10:19 AM no, no. kick to me, kick it to me. :D
Dennis Hill 2nd May 2003, 05:12 PM Just make certain you get the sales docket as well!
I wasn't happy with the fence alignment on my GMC so I followed the process as laid out in a US mag for fixing the same problem on a DeWalt. Took 5 minuites and 2 drops of Locktite. Problem gone for good, machine works to better tolerances than I do!
Me happy!:)
dreamer 16th May 2003, 12:14 PM I'm looking at buying a biscuit joiner so I have been following this thread. I was keen to save a dollar or three so I was interested in the GMC comments. Seems that everyone is so happy that they replace em no prob that they are overlooking the fact that they need to be replaced. Also with quality (expensive) tools, aren't you also paying for accuracy ie stops on a compound mitre saw? Before anyone gets irate, it's just an observation and I'd appreciate your thoughts before I spend up to $500 unnecessarily.
Bob K :confused:
geoffbarker 16th May 2003, 04:29 PM Dreamer, I have bought the GMC, so far so good. Therefore no alighnment problems. Only thing I can comment on is that the fence distance winder adjuster is a little tighter than the one on the Bunnings display counter. I think it may be the little rubber o rings on the spindle cog are a little too compressed, a minor minor problem that doesnt warrent me spending 3 and a half times more than I piad for it for a 'professional' name brand (DeWalt for eg).
The fence distance ruler has slight adjustment for making it accurate - but I had no need, out of the box is was perfectly accurate, therefore a cut 6mm from the woods edge, was just that (I measured the centre of biscuit slot from the wood's edge).
derekcohen 16th May 2003, 04:59 PM I agree with Geoff.
While I always lust after more expensive tools, the GMC has provided reliable and acceptable service, so-much-so that I cannot justify buying a replacement.
Mine was also perfectly accurate out-of-the-box. The only modification I made was to the screw that set the fence height. Its knob was round and difficult to tighten. So I replaced it with a butterfly nut.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Wayne Davy 16th May 2003, 05:05 PM Carbatec have their new 'Archer' Biscuit Jointer on sale for $99 in Bris at the moment. Looks quite good and solid.
I have also seen a new model Ryobi for $79!! at Bunnings last week. Updated and 50w more power than the Ozito.
I have not used either one but they might be worth checking out if anyone is looking to get a B/J.
dreamer 16th May 2003, 07:52 PM Thanks guys,
I gotta say, it is hard to see why the brand names are so much more expensive if the others do the job. I guess I'm converted (when I was young and used to work on my cars my father taught me to pay the extra and buy spanners that will last me my entire life and I still have em so I find it hard to look seriously at cheap tools). Now the next question is, what are Archer/Carba-Tec like in quality and to deal with(they don't aren't that price in Sydney anyway)? Everyone seems stoked with GMC customer service so do I buy the dearer item at the low end level or try haggling with Carba-Tec to match their Qld price, or do I wait til the Syd woodwork show but it's hard to put off buying new toys sorry essential equipment (wow nearly blew it, lucky she's left the room) once you've saved the $$$$.
Bob K :p :D
DarrylF 16th May 2003, 09:22 PM Having had both the GMC and now the Dewalt, my take would be buy the GMC if you're looking to save a few bucks and you're not going to use it every week, and buy the Dewalt or Makita if you're looking for quality.
Personally I wouldn't buy anything from Ozito with your money :) Disposable tools aren't exactly my idea of a good idea.
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