Using the Stanley 71 for door hinges

[JDarvall]

Hello,

Nothing special. Just a simple addition to the stanley 71 hand router. .and some ideas. These ideas may be already described in its manual. I don't know. I've never owned it.

The stanley 71 is a bit of a pain in the but :eek: well I think it is. I've got a couple of that common version that has a open nose. Which really only makes it useful for cross grain cutting with plenty of wood under the router on both sides of the blade.....ie. routing out the guts of a crossgrain groove.

This open mouth versions just useless for running along a thin edge. Wants to crash dive all the time. Maybe I'm missing something obvious.

I use them mostly for cutting recesses and the like for hardware. Ensures a consistant depth throughout.

But even then it can fail. For example, a common cut is for door hinges, which I did today. The body of the router is just not wide enough to support the cut properly.

I'll show you what I mean...
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/1a-1.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/2a-1.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/3a-1.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/4a-1.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/5a-1.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/6a-1.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/7a-1.jpg
Also suggest you use the smallest blade of the set. It handles a coarser cut better. Can get into all the bottle necks easier with it. I rarely use the other ones.

and suggest you remove the handles. You can grasp the whole tool better without them, such that your fingers can brake off your stock. More control uno.

[JDarvall]

Well ? ....hello ?

Anybody got any 71 ideas or experiences to share as well ?...... I don't want to be the only one talking uno.

[scooter]

Makes sense, Jake, bigger footprint.

Keep posting this sort of stuff, mate, the info is good & the pics are "eye candy" as the yanks say. Most of us enjoy seeing what you're up to, whether or not we've got anything to say about it.

All adds to the wealth of info on the forums.


Cheers............Sean

[jmk89]

One reason that no-one answers, Jake is that you have 2 #71's - one (first photo) a Stanley and the other (the modified one), a Record.

Why don't you unload some of the spare planes so others can have a go....:D

Cheers

Jeremy

PS I agree with Scooter - please keep posting this stuff, it is very interesting even if I can't actually make a proper contribution.

[Wood Borer]

Thanks Jake.

[derekcohen]

Well ? ....hello ?

Anybody got any 71 ideas or experiences to share as well ?...... I don't want to be the only one talking uno.

Hi Jake

Just seen this thread.

Have a look here: http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/dCohen/LVRouterPlane/index.asp

and

http://www.wkfinetools.com/tMaking/art/shootBoard/routerCutter.asp

Written for the Veritas Router Plane but meant for all router planes.

I know I did this very thread, that is, using the #71 for hinge mortices, but I cannot find the address.

Incidentally, a great router plane for this purpose is the little Stanley#271.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Paul Chapman]

Great post, Jake :cool: I haven't got a #71 but seeing how nice that hinge fits I now want one ;) Good to see your wheel marking gauge in the background :D

Cheers

Paul

[JDarvall]

Thanks fellas.:o sorry I got a bit paranoid. Apparently I can be a little rude sometimes. Maybe ....never mind.

And Derek. Fine looking machine you've detailed there. That scraper blade of yours is clever. I must try that. Is the Lee valley version wider than the 71 though to handle standard door hinges ? .... If not I suppose you can add a sole to it as well. ...I think its really important that the sole be widened..... found also this wide sole makes tennon trimming possible without support offcuts.

And the 71 has a shoe for going along edges and the like!... of course. I've never had that part you see. But I suppose the added sole replaces that anyway.

That 271 looks like a good one to get. But only for small hinges and thing like keyhole covers I'm guessing. Yes ? ....and probably good for the cover plates of mortise locks, come to think of it.

[scooter]

Apparently I can be a little rude sometimes.


Prick ;)

[JDarvall]

Prick ;)
:D cheeeeky !

[Waldo]

G'day Jake,

Only just found this. Beaut thread, nothing much to say as I don't have one, but all the same keep them coming.

[BrettC]

Jake (Derek),
I posted a while ago about uses for a little #271 I got my mits on but didn't really get any takers from memory, thanks for this.

At least I don't get those depth fine adjuster probs with the 271...

Thanks

[OtakiriLad]

Many thanks for the posts:) I picked up the Record version a while back for $5 with (I think) all the bits like depth gauges, fence etc and did the clean up thing with electrolysis so it looks great but until now I wasn't too sure how to use it. Thanks to you guys I have got some pointers in the right direction.

[JDarvall]

My pleasure. I enjoy thinking about these things. If you ever have anytyhing to add I'm all ears. Thats really why I start these threads. I want to hear other opinions. Fix any misconceptions I may have as well.

OtakiriLad....you did well to get it for $5 .

Brett, I don't have the 271......but I'd like to have it ( you wanna sell it ? ;) ).... For a while I took the fine adjuster out of the 71 in mine....found it easier to adjust with hammer taps uno.....Its a little easier though to adjust ever so slightly with the fine adjuster though IF it doesn't jam up all the time.... thats when I worked out pressuring the blade with my finger. IMO

anycase....:)

[Andy Mac]

Hi Jake,
Another good thread, tuning and modifying those hand tools most of us have only seen in books!:)
I was wondering though, has adding the false sole meant the blade is flexing more due to extended reach... you know, adjusting it out so far? And just on hinge fitment, I think from how I'm reading your photos, the hinge is as wide as the whole door is thick, so the cut extends all the way through. If the mortice (or however you describe the chopped-out rebate) didn't extend through, ie blind, would you outline the extent of the mortice with a chisel before using your #71? And would you prefer to cut across the grain or with it??

Cheers, thanks for posting.

[JDarvall]

Hi Andy,,,,haven't seen your posts in a while....alls well ?



I was wondering though, has adding the false sole meant the blade is flexing more due to extended reach... you know, adjusting it out so far?
.
I think thats a good point. It doesn't seem to flex like that though, when extended right out. Your right, you do loose a little depth,,,,,but I think there's still plenty of depth to handle everything even after adding that ply face ..... that acrylic was too thick though I thought at the time. Still would have been ok for the shallow hinge recesses



And just on hinge fitment, I think from how I'm reading your photos, the hinge is as wide as the whole door is thick, so the cut extends all the way through.
.
It did in this case,,,,normally it doesn't. I had to plane down these doors much thinner (to clear all the paint entirely). And I didn't want them sticking out too much.



If the mortice (or however you describe the chopped-out rebate) didn't extend through, ie blind, would you outline the extent of the mortice with a chisel before using your #71? And would you prefer to cut across the grain or with it??

.

yep.... before any routing is done with the 71, you want to ensure there's no chance of it tearing out past your lines. uno. So, all the peripherys(spelling?) have to be crisply cut and straight first.

what I did with that hinge is pretty simple (maybe a bit rushed). I just lay the hinge down lined up how I want it......trace it to the door with a sharp pencil.......with that veritas marking guage I set it by lining it up to the hinges thickness......scribed this depth to the door......then with the widist chisel I've got (actually come to think of it, a wider plane blade would have been better) I'd chop about a mil in from the line (probably do it better with scribing knife and try square)...... Drop a saw kerf along that chisel line at both ends...

and THEN rip into it with the 71 cross grain....cross grain it comes off quick....can drop to near depth really quickly taking coarse shavings with that small blade......Then take the depth drops slower right on to that scribed line I made eariler with that marking guage......along that line, right along the edge, so that you've ensure seeing a clean line, I move the router skewed with the grain.

Then with the recess cut to depth, you can creep up that chisel line right up to the pencil line......just checking with the actual hinge as you go uno, until you get that sqeaky gap smothering fit ...

:)

[Andy Mac]

Thanks Jake,
Clarified that, but sort of surprises me cross grain works better. I read through Derek's excellent review on the Veritas version, and his approach seems to be more about cleaning up a roughly prepared mortice (I don't say "Derek" and "roughly" in the same sentence very easily, but I hope you get my meaning...:o ) as opposed to cutting it all with the router to precut outlines, as you've done.

Cheers,

[JDarvall]

I think there's many ways Andy.

How clean does the bottom of a recess have to be for you though ? ....Same with the mortise (do you mean groove).....As long as the bottom of its parallel to the face I would have thought it shouldn't matter.

The heal of the blade will bump into the shoulder behind it, if used with grain....that means you have to reverse the tool every depth change....pointlessly slow I would have thought if most of its going to end up on the floor anyway. ...its just the final depth that I'd put concern into. The last whisker....where you scrutinize the grain,,,and slice into the recess with the router on the skew.

you can't get as much stability with the router running with the grain as well (on a thinner edge uno)....so its slower cutting.....not to mention cross grain cuts just peal off much easier.

Also, lovely tool and all,,,,,but I doubt the veritas number should perform much differently than a 71 with an added sole.....I would have thought....essentially the same thing is going on. A blade held fixed above a platform....the blades are similar.....And the 71's primary job is to rout to depth ....... a bottom of which is covered by a tennon or a hinge or whatever anyway.

It has got that fence though that looks good. Single rod though. I think two be better. Which gives me the idea, of using a couple of threaded inserts and add on fence on the 71 to do those stopped grooves.

With that hinge cut.....you can chisel most of it out if you like. Where you stop using the chisel and start using the router is the decision you have to make. Don't want to overcut the recess with the chisel following the grain I'd say.

Also the hinge cut is shallow anyway. Can drop to depth rapidly. (shrug)

whatever mate... :D .... when it comes down to it, its just another bloody tool.

[Bob Willson]

I would not use a Stanley plane for hinges. Just go to Bunnings and buy a pair of 4" hinges. Planes make lousy hinges.:rolleyes:

[JDarvall]

I would not use a Stanley plane for hinges. Just go to Bunnings and buy a pair of 4" hinges. Planes make lousy hinges.:rolleyes:

:D yeh, and those green thingos eh Bob.....;)

[BrettC]

Jake,
May be interested in doing a deal you know something like a #271 for a #71???
PM me if you're interested?

Otherwise keep the posts coming...
Cheers

[JDarvall]

Hello Brett.....arn't 271's of more value than 71's ? I don't know if it be a fair swap mate. Besides, I don't have all the parts for either of my 71's.

Thanks for the suggestion though, but I recon you should keep it. ;) ( beatup 71's come up on ebay all the time for next to nothing)

Thinking at the moment, that maybe a good setup would be....those two 71's when cutting tennons.

I've got a dodgy table saw that makes messy cuts (despite all my attempts to fix it)......thinking for quick work, just rip the cheeks slightly oversize, and use both routers on it to clean up.....ie. one set for the width and one for the the depth.......uno, having two means I don't have to muck about changing depths all the time for the same tennon.....

:)

[BrettC]

Jake,
No worries, I'll keep an eye out for a decent 71.
Cheers.