Gifkins jig assistance

[Ray153]

I have finally got myself the Gifkins which I promised myself some time ago. Took it out of the box and read everything in sight front to back, looked at the DVD again and then made my trial joint. All good, very impressed and extremely happy with the fit I achieved. I then got bold and cut four pieces of tassie oak that I had lying around to make the panels of a box just for the sheer joy of using the jig. I used a Irwin quick grip clamp and found that there was a little bit of movement in the workpiece on the jig. Trimmed the stock and started over. I then found two things when the time came to put the 4 pieces together.
Firstly, he is not kidding when he says to always have the marked face side away from the jig and to make sure you turn the piece 180 degrees left or right, not 180 degrees forwards or backwards. Boy does it ever ruin the bottom edge alignment...... Easy fix that one, I would like to think that I have learnt that lesson but who am I kidding, no way that will be the last time I ever make that mistake.
Secondly, I found the joints extremely tight, reaching for the biggest mallet I own type of tight. Much much tighter than the trial joint and trust me, absolutely no room for anything even remotely resembling glue.
I have a couple of questions.
Is it possible that in trying to prevent even the slightest bit of movement, I have over tightened the stock to the jig, thereby squeezing the timber so tight to the jig that it was as though I have taken out a couple of shims? I have spent the last day pondering the dilemma. This has been the only idea I could come up with and have not had the chance to try again.
Lastly, has anyone else encountered this and what sort of clamp do you use?
Any advice would be gratefully recieved.

[Gumby]

I haven't had that problem at all and i don't think you could change the setting by clamping pressure. I just have the clamps on firmly enough to hold the timber still but I use clamps which need to be screwed tight, not the quick clamp type.

Try again, practice makes perfect.

Have you downloaded my gifkins video? It may help.

[keith53]

I'm with Gumby. I used a quick-release type a few times but didn't get enough positive clamping pressure so stopped using it. I haven't had to alter the number of shims out of the box but you may need to experiment there. Definitely mark your outside edges & bottoms & stick to it. Its a good bit of kit though, and well worth persevering with.

[Ray153]

I haven't had that problem at all and i don't think you could change the setting by clamping pressure. I just have the clamps on firmly enough to hold the timber still but I use clamps which need to be screwed tight, not the quick clamp type.

Try again, practice makes perfect.

Have you downloaded my gifkins video? It may help.

Gumby, I have watched your video and found it good value, especially liked the opening music and credits. It will be trying tomorrow with g clamp to see if I have the same problems.

Keith, I am certainly staying on this particular horse, no way I am giving up that easily. I will say in my own defence, that I did very carefully mark the face and bottom edges on each piece, and then equally as carefully ignored the mark on one of the pieces. But it is important to note that I am very proud of having marked the pieces in the first place......

[Ashore]

Ray I have had a gifkin jig for several years and every now and then I don't mark the faces this often results in a stuff up, a great jig but you need to follow the instructions.
As for a tight fit the first box I made I dry fitted and never got it apart to glue like a few others I would think:D

[gazaly]

I found problems in using the quick release type clamps also - possibly from the rubber feet?

I use a G clamp now and have had no problems. :)

[Cagey]

Did you use the same wood for trial joint as the box? i find that WRC gives me a slightly looser fit than Tas Oak for instance, and havent tried pine. I have had a few boxs shrink in dimension after cutting off pins to start again, but i am far too clever to forget to flip the stock the right way ever again, again :rolleyes:

[Jedo_03]

Straight from Roger's bible
Just a suggestion that the jig isn't set up for hardwood. . .

32 Re-adjusting Shims. If changing from a very hard wood to a very soft wood or vice versa, it is worth cutting a trial joint to check the shim adjustment. Very hard woods may require 1 or 2 more shims than soft woods to give the fit that you want. If you find that this is the case, make a note of the shims required & the timber species for next time.

Also note that 1 shim = .008 Roger reckons not much point in just adding 1 shim...

Cheers
Jedo

[keith53]

I've used pine, meranti and hardwood and haven't had to adjust the shims yet. Sometimes they do get a bit tight but, all the better. Makes for a tighter box. Actually, its one of the only tools I've bought that work perfectly, first time out of the box. Roger's my hero. :D

[Landseka]

I think Cagey is on the money here. I found there is quite some difference in shims required for good fit when using Tassie oak compared to Jarrah for example.

I now have written on the backing block my references to this so I can get it right.

FWIW I suppose you have noticed that you really need a different backing board (turn around and / over the original ones) for different stock thicknesses to avoid tearout? Just mark each face with the stock sizes.

For ease of setting the cutter height for different templates I have made a template(?) for each Gifkins template I have. It is simply a strip of hardwood about 150 x 25 x the thickness of the Gifkins template + 1/2mm. When the cutter height is set flush with this template I get 1/2mm to sand off to finish the joint.

Regards

Neil.

[Ray153]

Thanks to all who have taken the time. I should clarify one or two points. I used the same wood in my first "box" as I used in my trial joint, cut from the very same length of stock. So while I understand and did see the warning in the written instructions about tolerances issues between soft/hard woods, this cannot be a factor here for this problem. The more I think about the clamp I used, the more convinced I am that there is just too much possibility of movement in the clamping surfaces, compressible yellow pads that merely slip over a hard plastic form seem to be designed almost to fail as it were.
Believe me, I marked up all the stock just like Gumby did in his video and Roger did in his DVD, also the same as I saw him do at the TWW show. I am a firm believer in learning from the experts and those who have the proven track record of accomplishment. All I can say in my defence is that while I may have marked up the pieces, a temporary oversight saw me ignore the instructions and it was a slightly tongue in cheek comment I made about not making the same mistake in the future.
I still haven't had a chance to get back in the saddle as it were but hope to try tomorrow with a g clamp rather than the irwin and am hopeful of better results.
Thanks again to those offering advice.

[Zed]

adjust the fit with the shims (essentially cardboard) as per rogers dvd instructions. this will remove the fitting mallet issue.

for the squareness of fit on the jig itself make sure the timber is cut truely square - this will affect the fit...

Roger specifially recommended against a quick release clamp and specifically recommended a Irwin G clamp as they are twin threaded and have good holdong ability. I use a largish one and have glued some thick rubber to the face of the clamp contacting the workpeice this holds it in place nicely.

cheers

[Carry Pine]

Above comments endorsed. it's a pity we need to learn so many things by trial and error. Here are mine, feel free to relate to them:
* Quick release clamps- work on thin stock but if you want accuracy, go G clamp.
* square the ends of the timber- don't assume ends are square even if you have purchased a 'box pack'
* don't be overkeen to make a supertight joint. Having to knock them together with force wrecks the joint
* check the timber is resting on the bottom of the jig flat (square)
* label your pieces. In my set of 8 drawers there is one where the dovetails go the other way. (Only an expert like Gazaly would notice it though). This doesn't matter on boxes.
So... don't make these mistakes.

Carry Pine