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Big Shed
10th November 2006, 05:12 PM
Used to do wood turning years ago, but pressure of work etc blah blah made me sell the lathe as it took up so much space for something never used. Now that I am retired I considered going back to it.

Fate intervened a while ago when I went to a local clearing sale and picked up a basic lathe (WC900) for $100. Having done a fair bit of spindle turning so far I would like to some bowl stuff, as I have oodles of grey gum, yellow gum, red gum and ironbark logs.

So here is my question, and I am sure it has been asked before, what do I look for in a chuck.?

There appears to be a bewildering array of chucks available, from cheap Chinese made jobs with 2 tommy bars, to chcuk that should only be sold gold plated and displayed in glass cases:D .

Any thoughts, tips etc appreciated.

There may even be some forum members that would like to sell a chuck?

Skew ChiDAMN!!
10th November 2006, 05:21 PM
So here is my question, and I am sure it has been asked before, what do I look for in a chuck.?

There appears to be a bewildering array of chucks available, from cheap Chinese made jobs with 2 tommy bars, to chcuk that should only be sold gold plated and displayed in glass cases:D

Don't buy a Chinese spin-off. They're usually more grief than they're worth and it's almost impossible to find other sized jaws that will fit... unless you happen to have your own metal lathe.

Here in Oz, there are only two brands of chucks I'd recommend: Vicmarc or Teknatool. Personally, I prefer the Teknatool's Supernova2 for bigger lathes and their Precision Midi (a tommy bar job) for midi lathes. These two brands have quality on their side, plus a wide range of interchangeable jaws. Ummm... not interchangeable between brands, but interchangeable between models of the same brand, if you know what I mean?

A bit on the pricey side, but you get what you pay for.

I reckon you couldn't go past any of the chucks available on this page on Jim Carroll's site. (http://cws-store.yahoostore.com.au/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_by_category?category_id=1107144813) I'm not promoting Jim BTW, (although he is worth promoting :D) just saying that these are the chucks that IMHO you should be looking at. ;) Which one of these you end up buying would depend on factors such as your lathe size (little chucks for little lathes), what type of work you'll be doing and, of course, your budget...

Slow6
10th November 2006, 05:42 PM
Skew gives good advice. I have owned a vicmark vm100 for a while now and recently picked up an old nova with a heap of jaws.

I'm thinking of going the supernova2 now instead of extending my vicmark collection simply because it will be backwards compatable with the nova jaws I already have (and any others I may find second hand)

With the supernova2 and vm100/120 being very close quality/performance wize I reckon thats enough to swing me over to the nova.

dont forget if you buy a second hand one you'll need the right thread size for your lathe, you'll be able to get an insert for nova's or vicmarks but its an extra cost you have to remember.

baxter
10th November 2006, 05:43 PM
There appears to be a bewildering array of chucks available, from cheap Chinese made jobs with 2 tommy bars, to chcuk that should only be sold gold plated and displayed in glass cases:D .

Big Shed, I have a glass case that could hold any chucks that need minding.

Skew, one of the dearer ones worth mentioning must be the new Vermec chuck that will apparently be coming out in the New Year. From what I have heard you will be able to interchange Vicmarc and Teknatool jaws on that chuck - with I think a slight drill out of the screw holes on the Vicmarc.

It is quite a heavy chuck, much the same size as a VM120. Could be worth waiting for:D .

Skewpid
10th November 2006, 05:45 PM
Don't buy a Chinese spin-off. They're usually more grief than they're worth and it's almost impossible to find other sized jaws that will fit... unless you happen to have your own metal lathe.
...

Here here!:D

The spin offs arnt that much bloody cheaper either .. most are around the 100 buck mark, with the Nova G3 at only $145 (midi chuck) which is what Im gonna get . .and should have bought to start with, but I didnt know of these forums back then:mad:

clubbyr8
10th November 2006, 05:56 PM
I agree with the concensus expressed here, stay away from the (not so) cheap Chinese clones.

I have a Vicmarc VM100 and a VM120 and Supernova 2 that came with my DVR.

Both brands are outstanding quality although I actually prefer the Vicmarc's. A down side is the jaws aren't transportable between the two different size chucks, but I get by.

I don't think you can go wrong with either brand and the advantage is if you change lathes all you need to do is buy a new thread insert if the headstock spindle is a different thread to the MC900.

Bob

Caveman
10th November 2006, 06:21 PM
Big Shed - I dove in at the deep end and bought a Supernova2 as a complete novice, having never owned any other chuck and never regret the money spent.
I'm impressed by the precision and continually amazed by the strength of it. (FWIW I've mainly turned bowls - some green lumps weighing up to 22kgs & 50cm dia have gone onto the SN2 (obviously first profiled off a faceplate then reversed onto the chuck)).

I would definately agree with the general consensus re. the chinese types despite never having come across them - if you can afford it ,get a SN2 (or I guess the Vicmarc equivalent).

BernieP
10th November 2006, 07:38 PM
G'Day Big Shed

I have a Nova G3 which I use with my MC1100 (same as yours only A bit longer) and find it good, only downside is it has a chuck key arrangement which is a bit fussy to seat in the cog.

Bernie

Gra
10th November 2006, 07:55 PM
Guys,

This thread came at just the correct time, end of year appraisals at work have come through and well lets say the minister of finance has approved the purchase of a chuck and was leaning towards the supernova 2, what are the pros and cos of the SN2 over say the nova? I have read what I can find, but have just ended up more confused..

Skew ChiDAMN!!
10th November 2006, 08:07 PM
This thread came at just the correct time, end of year appraisals at work have come through and well lets say the minister of finance has approved the purchase of a chuck and was leaning towards the supernova 2, what are the pros and cos of the SN2 over say the nova? I have read what I can find, but have just ended up more confused..

Basically, the SN2 is a Nove with all the bugfixes. :) The Titan is the SN2 on steroids and the G3 is the SN2's baby sister. The Precision Midi is the tommy bar version, and all the others have been more or less superceded by the above chucks... IMHO not worth buying secondhand unless they're significantly cheaper or you specifically need/want one for some strange reason.

Big Shed
10th November 2006, 08:24 PM
G'Day Big Shed

I have a Nova G3 which I use with my MC1100 (same as yours only A bit longer) and find it good, only downside is it has a chuck key arrangement which is a bit fussy to seat in the cog.

Bernie

Hi Bernie, thanks for that. Not being an engineer, can you tell me what insert I need for the MC900? Looks like 1inch, but what TPI?
Had a look at the Carrolls' website and the G3 looks what I'm after, certainly not much more than the Chinese ones. Thos tommy bars look like a pain apart from anything else

BernieP
10th November 2006, 10:23 PM
G'Day Big Shed

Insert was 1inch 10tpi

By the way seems to handle ok as I never cut things round to start off as I figure I might as well use the Lathe for what it was intended, so mount some funny shapes and sizes but always make sure I've got face mask on.

Cheers Bernie
PS count the threads should be the same as mine!

Tornatus
10th November 2006, 10:33 PM
...Not being an engineer, can you tell me what insert I need for the MC900? Looks like 1inch, but what TPI?
Had a look at the Carrolls' website and the G3 looks what I'm after...

The MC900 has an M30 spindle - 30mm diameter, 3.5 teeth per inch - how's that for mixing measurement systems, and it's become a standard!

Being a Vicmarc person, I'm not sure how much a Nova G3 weighs, but be careful - a while ago, I was given a Vicmarc VM120, but had to reluctantly return it, because as soon as I fitted it on my MC900 it became obvious that it was too much chuck for a lathe of that size and power. I checked with engineer friends, who confirmed that it would be highly likely to wear out the bearings in short order, let alone stress out the motor. Just too damn heavy.

So I'm sticking with the VM100, which I must say has done everything I have wanted of it so far. My only concern about Vicmarc products is that I have seen worrying signs that their famous quality control is slipping in the face of their struggle to meet the demands of the world market they have entered - and try ordering anything from them in Australia!

Darrell Feltmate
10th November 2006, 11:52 PM
One of the things that no one has mentioned here is the question of wether a chuck is needed. I believe the thread started with the premise of using a chuck for turning a bowl. I own and recommend a One Way chuck. However, it is Canadian made and the Vicmarc or Technatool is likely easier to find in Oz. Either are great to use and will meet any obvious needs and will be glad to take your money for whatever jaws you may want to purchase in the future.
That said, I seldom (hate to say never) use a chuck for turning a bowl. Generally I rough the inside and outside between centers and do the finish turning with a glue block using hot glue. It is fast and cheap and I think a little easier to work the bottom than with a chuck. Not enough to make a huge difference but enough to question the validity of purchasing a chuck if all you want it for is bowls.
My system is shown on my web site under the section on turning a bowl from log to salad.
http://aroundthewoods.com/bowls.shtml

joe greiner
11th November 2006, 03:07 AM
Following up on Darrell's remarks, here's another way to turn a bowl without resorting to expensive chucks. Especially if you're not sure you want to continue truning bowls anyway.

Belt sand or otherwise flatten the bottom of the blank. Attach a glue block, or allow an additional inch or so of waste. Attach the blank to a faceplate. Use the tailstock for added stability, and turn the outside and inside. (Outside first to get it balanced.) Remove the center stub last. Then, remove from the faceplate, and substitute a piece of plywood on the faceplate. Turn a groove in the plywood to mate with the bowl's rim (Won't work for natural edge, but you probably haven't advanced to that skill yet.) Not entirely necessary, but a good idea to make the plywood sorta round so you don't get hit by the corners. Attach the bowl to the plywood with lots of duct tape, wrapped around to the back of the plywood, and stapled to the back for safety. Turn the bottom. This method also allows you to apply more finesse to the bottom, and makes you look like you actually know what you're doing.:D

I think I found this in a newsletter or web site of one of the Oz turning clubs, so it keeps it in the family, so to speak.;)

JG

Gil Jones
11th November 2006, 03:46 AM
I agree with Darrell and Joe, chucks are nice, but not always needed. A waste block and faceplate are all you need to do most of the turning.
On the other hand, I personally like to use chucks, and my VicMarc 100 is of excellent quality.
Gil

Jim Carroll
11th November 2006, 09:48 AM
As per the general concensus keep away from cheap chucks, Only good for paper weights.

The G3 scroll chuck{88mm} is a good small chuck designed for use on mini and midi lathes. Not suitable for haevy work.

The Supernova 2 and VM100 ##100mm}are more prefered for the larger lathes MC900 and up from there. They both have a variety of jaws to do larger and smaller work.

The Titan and VM120 are 5" 125mm chucks and as indicated heavy and more suited for the more serious lathes and for bigger and heavier work.The Titan has an advantage that it can use any of the Nova range of Jaws where the VM120 can only use the dedicated jaws for this chuck, they are not interchangeable with jaws from the VM100.

The Vermec chuck 110mm which is coming out in the new year is a mid range chuck and will be the first chuck to take either Nova or Vicmarc accessories {any of the VM100 jaws will need the screw holes drilled to accomodate the 6mm screws} The chuck has a few unique design features that will appeal, ofset handle position so it leans to the back of the chuck, 144 indexing plate as standard on the back of the chuck.

The Nova chucks also come in a companion version so that people who already have one of these chucks can buy the companion version and have some savings . The companion version does not have the 50mm jaws or the woodscrew, which you get with the standard chuck packages.

Price comparisons.
G3 standard $145.00
G3 companion $125.00
Supernova 2 standard $205.00
Supernova 2 companion $195.00
VM100 $283.00
VM120 $336.00
Nova Titan standard $364.00
Nova Titan companion $309.00
Vermec 110 $269.00

All prices include the insert to suit your lathe.

As a warning the MC900/1100 come in 3 thread sizes at the moment, 1"x8tpi, 1"x10 tpi and M30 x 3.5mm.

Hope all this helps.

Big Shed
11th November 2006, 09:40 PM
What a wealth of knowledge out there.

Jim, had a look at your website and the G3 looks the way to go.

Also had a look at my MC900, which was sold originally under the Sherline brand, and it appears to have 1" x8 tpi. Whic is what I thought it was but looking at some of the catalogs, Carbatec, Hafco, etc, they all seem to have a different thread. Anyway it is definately 1" diam, and I can only count 8 grooves per inch. Guess if I get the wrong insert it can always be changed over.

Some of the techniques suggested for non-chuck bowl turning sound interesting and I will give them a try as well, still would like that shiny lump of metal though. After all I have mentally prepared SWMBO that it is an absolute necessity!

Thanks to all of you for your replies, they have been most enlightening and educational.

wazzaboyz
11th November 2006, 11:10 PM
I would be carefull as to which chuck I would buy know because someone at the Melbourne show said that Teknatool are know made in China.

I bought a VM100 from Carba Tec for $249 today and it is very well made.

Jim Carroll
12th November 2006, 05:06 PM
Wazza the Teknatool lathes are fully manufactured in China under the supervision of the Teknatool company as they have their own plant over their.

There is not many companies that do not have links with china for all of their castings, I think Omega may be the only one left who is wholly Australian.

Big Shed
14th November 2006, 10:24 AM
Just picked up the latest issue of Australian Woodsmith and it has a good article on Bowl Gouge basics using the face plate.

Will have a go at this before splrging on the G3 chuck, only delaying the inevitable though, I think!

Skew ChiDAMN!!
14th November 2006, 09:32 PM
I'd do a bit of a search on jam chucks too, if I were you. IMHO it's better to explore all the ways to hold timber without a "proper" chuck before splurging the money. That way you learn just what they're capable of and how to use/make 'em, which is a bit of a learning curve.

There are some forms which are a right PITA to hold in a self-centering chuck which are a right doddle to hold in a jam chuck. :)

But the people who buy a chuck straight away tend to take the easy option and never bother with jam-chucks, so there are forms they never play with... because they don't know how to hold 'em! :rolleyes:

Big Shed
14th November 2006, 10:53 PM
:D
I'd do a bit of a search on jam chucks too, if I were you. IMHO it's better to explore all the ways to hold timber without a "proper" chuck before splurging the money. That way you learn just what they're capable of and how to use/make 'em, which is a bit of a learning curve.

There are some forms which are a right PITA to hold in a self-centering chuck which are a right doddle to hold in a jam chuck. :)

But the people who buy a chuck straight away tend to take the easy option and never bother with jam-chucks, so there are forms they never play with... because they don't know how to hold 'em! :rolleyes:

Well what do you know Skew ChiDAMN, wnet to the library in Castlemaine this afternoon and picked up an oldish publication from FWW about wood turning, and 1 of the articles talks about the very thing. Looks like I will be in the shed tomorrow!

Thanks for your input, it is good to know that there other people out there similarly demented

rsser
15th November 2006, 08:41 AM
Just one wrinkle ... I use both the VM100 and the SN2; from memory the former gives you noticeably more jaw travel and so is more flexible regarding spigots and recesses. If that might matter, sing out and I'll go and check them out.

Aside from that, Nova's model interchangeable jaws are a real plus in my view. And their 75mm bowl jaws are excellent (if only they wouldn't round over the edges!).

baxter
15th November 2006, 11:55 AM
I would be carefull as to which chuck I would buy know because someone at the Melbourne show said that Teknatool are know made in China.


Wazza the Teknatool lathes are fully manufactured in China under the supervision of the Teknatool company as they have their own plant over their.

There is not many companies that do not have links with china for all of their castings, I think Omega may be the only one left who is wholly Australian.

Not being a person to accept what I have heard from "someone" and only about a third of what I may read when that "someone" is quoted, I did not accept Wazzaboyz' post as necessarily being gospel.

So I emailed the Development Manager - Product & New Business at Teknatool International Ltd to clarify the situation.

His response read as follows:

"Our chucks are certainly NZ made and only the new 1624 is currently made and assembled at our owned and operated factory in China.

The factory has been a progressional process over many years with steady growth in the sourcing of parts from China. We have full control, systems and state of the art CNC machinery in this facility".

Before I had received that reply Jim Carrol had posted that all Teknatool lathes were manufactured in China. This was contrary to the information that I had been given, so I emailed seeking clarification.

This is the reply that I have received this morning

"Chucks are made and assembled in NZ.
DVRs are currently made and assembled in NZ.

Essentially whether we make here or China, it makes no difference. Same machinery, same level of qualified staff, same processes, quality control etc.

A press release will be coming out in a day or two outlining the operation. This will go to clubs resellers customers etc...".

I hope that this clarifies the situation with respect to the manufacture and assembly of Teknatool lathes and chucks and that we don't have to rely upon what "someone" said.

And yes, I did seek and receive permission to quote the email replies on this forum.:D