The Maloof joint

[Wongo]

There are a few things I need to work out before I can even think about building a rocking chair.

Tonight I tried the seat and the dado rabbet joint. The front leg joint is pretty easy to cut since everything is square. The back leg will be harder, it forms a 95 degree angle to the seat.

Both joints can be done by hand. Using a router to cut rebate will be hard but I am working on it.

[Scally]

The joint looks good.
It even looks straight forward to make – Is it?

SM leaves his legs oversized and square where he makes the joints. I expect all the angles are 90 degrees at the intersection.
He sounds very practical about his joinery so keeping the pieces square at the intersections would make sense.

The legs curve away from the joints to give the angles he wants.

Then his shaping exposes the joints to show them off..

Nice work.

[ptc]

keep the pics comming (please.)

[TassieKiwi]

You're a legend!

For the rear leg - if the dado is cut on the leg at 85° on the front/rear faces, and 90° on the inside face, then the mating faces parallel with the rockers could have the corresponding +/-5° formed by chisel. This might be where he uses the special router bits, though I'm not sure how the transition from vertical to 5° works.

C'mon you lot - lets figure this out. Wongo can be the CMC for us shed starved folk. If he wants, that is.

[Wongo]

I think the joint itself is not hard to do. To cut cut the rebate with a router is the bit that I could work out. If you use the router bit to cut the rebate on the seat then the back leg will bend 5° outwards and also 5° backwards. Hang on maybe that’s what it is.:eek: :confused:

To cut the matching joint on the leg is one thing but where do I get those special router bits? I don’t think CMT will make me 2 for $30 each.

I will work it out, I promise.

[jmk89]

Hey Scott

Why not use your router so that all "vertical" cuts are 5° out and then use a chiselcert all the horizontalcutscome back to90° (that is,parallel to the "floor").Then you could use and the ordinary trimmer bit or a spiral bit and clean it up with your chisel?

[Wongo]

Quiet, don’t give away my secret.:D

Well done jmk89, exactly what I have been thinking. Still it is going to be a challenge.

[TassieKiwi]

I wonder if the Domirouter would be handy here:confused: - Lignum, Flowboy? With the plate set to 85° it would at least do the angled bits.

We'll get it.

[conwood]

I'm sure you will work it out Wongo, we always do! Perhaps you can make a router template?????

Keep us posted.

Cheers,
conwood

[Wongo]

Got it.

Hey the idea works, no custom router bits, no chisel.

If you just ignore the surface, everything else in the joint is square. All I need is a jig to give me accurate cut every time.

[Wongo]

The way Maloof makes the seat is very clever. He starts with 1 curve on the middle piece. Cut it on a bandsaw. Use it as a template to do the next 2. It makes the sanding later on a lot easier.

[zenwood]

Fantastic stuff, Wongo.

You could fair the curves on those end bits by freehanding them on the bandsaw. I saw SM do it on tv once, though he said he wouldn't recommend it. I tried it once and it worked OK. Though I probably wouldn't recommend it either.;)

[TassieKiwi]

You da man Scott!


He said somewhere that he's only broken one finger :eek: when the timber caught in the blade and slammed his hand into the table. Not too bad in 40+years of cavalier bandsaw wizardry. I've done it on a couple of bits on the rounded ends of the bed top rails. It seemed natural. I think that you would have to be very sleepy to get cut, as the blade cannot draw you in.

[jmk89]

Great work Scott!

As Tex and the rest of us said at lunch on Wednesday, stop thinking about it in the abstract - start cutting and you will work it out as you go along. It is coming along brilliantly. This is a great advertisement for the "suck it and see" school of design!

[Wongo]

Fantastic stuff, Wongo.

You could fair the curves on those end bits by freehanding them on the bandsaw. I saw SM do it on tv once, though he said he wouldn't recommend it. I tried it once and it worked OK. Though I probably wouldn't recommend it either.;)

Oh no, I would never do stuff like that. NEVER! :D It is SO dangerous.:cool:

But then again I have never had any formal training. I didn’t know better and no one told me not to. Truly it is risky so I do not recommend it.:D

[Wongo]

Watched the DVD a couple more times. The rebate is done in 2 cuts, a custom made bit and a straight bit.

Now I can sleep better.:o

[TassieKiwi]

You should have been asleep! So the inside faces are 5° and the sides square?

[Wongo]

Yep, 4 bits altogether for the joint. A straight bit, a +5° bit, a -5° bit and a rounding bit.

[TassieKiwi]

OK, who has sucessfully modified a router bit? Maybe could get one ground at a saw doctors or gen,eral engineer/machine shop? D'you think the Dom would do it? Set to 85° and plunge the already routered joint, use a straitedge as a guide? So many questions.

Must take a look at the DVD tonight.

[Wongo]

No, I think my idea would work ever better. I will make an accurate jig when the time has come.

Maloof’s way is a lot faster if you are doing hundreds of them together. Think carefully, if you are using a 95° bit (think about a dovetail bit) to do one rebate and a straight bit to do the other, then there will be a gap at where the 2 cuts meet. It might not be visible on the outside but it is still a cavity inside the joint.

[Wongo]

Also, making the matching joint on the back legs will be quite difficult. I think thats why it isn’t mentioned anywhere in the DVD. In fact you only get around 5 second of footage about this joint.

[TassieKiwi]

Funny - when I sketched it I had the slant the wrong way too.:rolleyes: Is this to confuse the competition?

I agree - a simple jig would be an improvement. marking out in all cases would have to be spot-on. I wonder if SM does this simply because that's what he thought of first?

[Wongo]

:D  

[TassieKiwi]

Yep - that's what my head did!

[Wongo]

TK,

Are you planning to make one? I am keen but it is going to take an awful lot of timber to do it. I just don’t have the spare cash at the moment.

Maybe Rocker can tell us how much timber does it take to build one. I know that they are mostly 45mm thick so my Studley's hardwood is no good.

[TassieKiwi]

I have a fair stack of Myrtle which would be nice. Blackwood would be pretty nice too, and I scan the paper for likely lots. Someone had a container full for sale for $3000 - you got the container too! I will do it in the next year or two, but have a list of furniture for the house to justify the new TS (next March wheeee).
I would like to do it 'just like Sam' but will look at Rocker's dominoed chair with interest. I (foolishly, probably) feel that while not easy its not impossible. Look at how many people copy it! What I would really like is to atttend Sam's annual workshop at Snowmass in the Rockies, where he makes a loow-back chair over the weekend. Hooooey. Imagine that! The cost of the course is only a few hundred - it's the other bits that would cost. He's 91 in Jan so there won't be many more.:(

[TassieKiwi]

TK,

Are you planning to make one? I am keen but it is going to take an awful lot of timber to do it. I just don’t have the spare cash at the moment.

Maybe Rocker can tell us how much timber does it take to build one. I know that they are mostly 45mm thick so my Studley's hardwood is no good.

How'bout laminating for the seat? We haven't got SM's shedfulls of luscious timber to select from, and careful grain matching might be OK? Maybe the bandsawn seat would be awkward.

[Wongo]

Hmm I have been thinking about that too. But it is not just the seat though. The legs also require thick stock.

Studley’s hardwood is 3cm thick so 2 layers will do the trick. The only thing is blue gum is way too hard to file/shape/carve. It is difficult but quite possible at this stage. I would love to use Tas Myrtle though.

I think I have the joint pretty under control. The way I do the joint will look (almost) exactly like his joint (on the outside).

I might work out the amount/cost of the wood tonight and we will see.

Can I sell blood in this country? OR maybe the kids should cut back to only 1 meal per day or something like that.

[TassieKiwi]

Kidney. You'll get some bids on e-bay. The pakistani farmers are getting up to $5k - you could use black walnut then!

[Wongo]

So 2 for $10K. Hmm...

[TassieKiwi]

I'm surprised that there is no other interest in this. you've sussed it anyway. WOuld you use screws/plugs like the Man? Kind of a signature for him, but would look OK without, and just epoxied?

[Wongo]

WOuld you use screws/plugs like the Man?

You bet.:cool:

[Rocker]

Wongo,

I don't think the cost of the wood would be excessive; my chair uses about 0.06 cu m. So maybe a solid-wood seated one might use about 0.1 cu m; So you are probably looking at around $400 for the wood. I would be wary of using myrtle for the chair. Myrtle looks nice, but it is very prone to bruising of end-grain. I think blackwood or jarrah are the go; but you need to be able to choose light-coloured jarrah of reasonably consistent colour throughout.

Dennis,

I believe there is someone in New Zealand who worked for some time in Maloof's workshop, and who now makes rockers in NZ. I am not sure if he is featured on Hal Taylor's site: http://www.rockingchairs.net/ . That site is worth a look if you are considering design ideas.

Rocker

[Wongo]

I think I will use studley’s bluegum to make one as practise. If I stuff it up then I lose nothing, well almost.:o

I am sure that the seat is flat. (See picture) which means a lot of wood will be wasted if I do it his way. There is no reason why I can’t cut the blocks square instead.

[TassieKiwi]

How about a 15mmx50mm 'thickener' glued locally where the legs are attached, to give the 50mm. You could gently sculpt the seat, ie not as extreme as SM's, and either permanently upholster or have a thinnish cushion made that ties on. Rear legs would look OK laminated, as would the top rail at the back.

[Rocker]

Dennis,

Surely upholstering the seat, or even putting a cushion on it, defeats the purpose of having a solid-wood seat - you might as well go with my design with an upholstered slip-seat. If you are going for the elegance of a solid-wood seat, you should suffer for your art, and eschew upholstery or cushions. But I am not prepared to suffer.

Rocker

[TassieKiwi]

Ah Grasshopper, is the journey the reason, or to simply to reach the end? Or just to have a comfortable place for your end?

:confused: :D

I agree about the upholstory BTW - after all, Maloof does this version as non rockers, though I'm not sure about joints.

If I were to do one it would have to be all timber, and I think that the deep cut-out at the rear of the seat works in with the curve of the spindles to give the lumbar support. Everyone raves about the comfort of these, though so would I if I had forked out $US40K!

[TassieKiwi]

TK,

I know that they are mostly 45mm thick so my Studley's hardwood is no good.


....not a prob now eh Wongo?!!:D :D :2tsup: :cool:

Den