CMS compatibility with basis

[riri]

Hello to all,

I understand that the Basis system ( Festool flexible system ) has been replaced by the CMS:eek: . I also understand that some of the accessories of the former Basis will not be accepted on the CMS:eek: , although i 'm not sure which one. As a long time user of the Basis system ( with ATF 55 ) i have always been very happy with the quality of the system. The results have always been incredible considering that it is a portable tool. I even thought that it was good value for money especially when buying the table with the plunge saw. Is it still the case?

Now has anyone got any experience with the CMS and how does it compare with the basis. Is it still possible to pull the saw towards the stock?

Regarding accessories which ones will fit?:(

Thanks for yr output,:)

riri

[nt900]

Hi riri,

The CMS came out late last year and replaced the good old BASIS Plus system. Generally speaking, power tool modules are interchangeable between the two systems. With the exception of the Basis ATF55 module. The new CMS table does not have a notch in the front rail for the pull-saw mechanism to be positioned in. Bit of a shame that, but on the positive side, the release of the CMS also saw the introduction of the TS55 module.

Now this TS55 module (and just this month the TS75 gets a module) does not feature the pull-saw capability. Instead, Festool have chosen to do away with any pull saws in the CMS and provide a much nicer sliding table (supplied in the standard set).

In summary, modules interchangeable between BASIS and CMS are:
Jigsaw module;
Belt Sander module;
All the Router modules;
All saw module without pull-saw action (eg. ATF55).The ATF55 module (from the BASIS) will not fit the CMS stand, but the TS55 and TS75 modules (from the CMS) will fit into the BASIS stand.

As for accessories. The primary difference between the two system is the side rails on the stand. The BASIS side rail is the exact same profile as the Multifunction Table. The CMS side profile is the same as that found on the Precisio CS50 and CS70 table saws. So items like the sliding and extension tables cannot be interchanged between the two systems.

As the CMS uses the same side profile and dimensions as the Precisio CS50 table saw, most of the accessories are identical and interchangeable between CMS and CS50.

You can download the CMS brochure from here http://www.idealtools.com.au/files/BROCHURE_CMS.pdf

Hope this helps.

[riri]

Thanks Anthony for yr comprehensive reply and for the PDF. On more question, if and when my ATF breaks down and i replace it with a TS55, can i use the same module? And if so will i still be able to pull the saw?

Somehow, i can't imagine that the quality of the CMS will ever come close to that of the Basis.

riri

[nt900]

I have not had the opportunity to try and squeeze a TS55 into a AFT module. I could give it a try as though, but I suspect a poor outcome.It may be a bit of a problem if you ATF passes away :(. Of course you can fit the TS55 and module to your BASIS, but unless you have a sliding table, you might miss the pull-saw function, I would.

I did like the pull-saw module of the BASIS, and the TS55 module is not as sophisticated as it's predecessor. But it is less costly in this incarnation and still well built of course. When the CMS came out I felt like I would miss the BASIS being available, but I am over it now, having spent more time with the CMS. In the end, the TS55 is a better saw (as good as the AFT55 was) and out-of-the box the CMS/TS55 Set is a better rig than how the BASIS came. Just my opinion of course. The CMS stand also has the nice powercoat like finish on it.

Personally, I keep a CMS and BASIS in the workshop now - spoilt aren't I. My configuration is:
CMS with TS55 module nearly always fitted, with standard sliding table always fitted, and occasionally the right side extension table fitted. The back extension table is nice to have, but I have not come to need it just yet.
BASIS table with Belt Sander module always fitted, with router table fitted to extension table. This extension table that could attach to the BASIS stand and fit a second module was the one thing do I miss about the BASIS. The CMS does not have an equivalent. But the extension table cost more than a BASIS stand, so were not very popular or financially practical.
I also have the jigsaw module which I sometime fit in the router (BASIS extension) place, or TS55 place (CMS stand).A lot of stationary equipment in very relatively small footprint and makes me a happy camper :) in the workshop. If you support this lot with a Multifunction Table, you can do just about everything a small workshop may want to do. Although a thicknesser is a must have, the TS55 and guide rail makes my stationary planer redundant in most cases. Oops, getting OT again.

One thing to note, the CMS is a bit taller than the BASIS was. Not its the same height as the Precisio CS50 and CS70 table saws. I put the BASIS on wheels to make them even, and more mobile.

Attached are images of my two rigs. CMS is currently on site.

[riri]

Hi Anthony,

It is indeed an impressive setup that you have got there:cool: . I use my Basis as a portable work station in conjunction with the MFT whenever i need precision on a site.

riri

[nt900]

Hi Riri,

I'm happy with it :).

Do you see much of the CMS/BASIS and MFT around Brussels on worksites? Which MFT do you carry around, the 800 or 1080?

[riri]

Hi Anthony,

To be honest i have not seen a CMS yet. As for the Basis, yes they are quite "common" in the finishing trades or fair stands build up.

I have an MFT 1080. It is quite heavy to carry around but not more say than a heavy tool box. It is a real plus to be able to work on site on a good work station. The results are better and your back keeps saying you thank you.

I use the Basis for sawing and i find it particularly efficent with repetitive cuts ( i have the long guide stop up to 2 meters ). With long pieces i also get some help from the MFT which has the same height. The TS 75 comes handy for larger stock.

My plans is to invest in the OF2000 module ( one can always hope that Santa is reading the forum ;) à.

As i said before, from the first day i bought it, i habe been bluffed with the qaulity of assembly of the Basis ( still bears the name FESTO on it ). It still impresses me every time i use it. As far as i am concerned, very good item to buy on ebay.

riri

[riri]

Hi to all,

Not too many users apart from Anthony hé:( !

riri

[bashosfrog]

Hi to all,

Not too many users apart from Anthony hé:( !

riri

Just logged into the forum after several months away and saw this thread. I've got the CMS/TS55 basic unit (stand, sliding table, adjustable fence), and am delighted with it. The main aluminium plate isn't perfectly flat - the centre dips by about 0.3 of a millimeter - and it did take a bit of fiddling around (with thanks to Anthony) to get the table to run on the same plane as the work surface. Nor would I like to be pulling the saw in an out all the time, because it's not a straightforward operation.

But with those caveats, it's an excellent unit. The slight dip doesn't seem to translate to any significant cutting errors, and ripping accuracy is excellent. It may not deliver the micro-millimetre results of a cast-iron table saw, but performance is plenty good enough for most woodworking tasks.

But it's the flexibility of the CMS that really has me sold. Even with the TS55 in, it's easily light and small enough to chuck into the boot of a car. I got mine because we had to move off our rural property and rent in town for a while. The CMS travels between our two homes with the ease of transporting an esky. Here in town, I haven't got a workshop, so I just set up the CMS on the verandah and stick it under my desk when I'm not using it. The sliding table stands up in a corner. When I first pulled the CMS out of the box, I thought the unit was too lightly built to be robust. I've changed my mind.

The adjustable fence is brilliant - it moves from the sliding table to a rip fence in literally seconds.

Even when I get my workshop back, I doubt I'll be investing in a table saw. With the capabilities of the TS55 and TS75 on guide rails, and the CMS, I think I'll be putting my pennies into the other CMS modules. When I recover from Christmas, the first addition will be the TS75 module. I've sometimes found myself wanting the extra cut, and I'd prefer to use the TS55 on the MFT. As I mentioned, getting the saw in and out of the CMS module is fiddly, so to date I've left the TS55 in the CMS and used the TS75 for guide rail work.

Can't compare with the Basis. I already had the TS75 when I bought the CMS, so it made sense to go with something that I could slot the saw into. I suspect the CMS is probably lighter built, but it's your judgement on whether this is an issue.

Hope this helps.

Matt.

[zuma]

I'm also using the Basis system in conjuction with a MFT 1080.

With the basis I use the wide extensiontable on the right side for extra width or an extra Basis machine. The MFT I use in the length behind the Basis setup to catch long pieces.

I do like the pull-saw capability on the Basis 1A. It's especially handy when you are shortening long lenghts. Mind you the CS-tables do als have a pull saw capability. It's not for nothing! I more suspect Festool wanted to make a clear difference between the portable table system and the more versatile CS-systems (especially after introducing the CMS). It's only waiting on the moment Festool will stop with selling BASIS systems and modules.


I have the modules for the ATF55, OF2000 and the PS 300. I'm only going to the CMS-system when my ATF goes to heaven. I will cry and start thinking on an extra CS-table for semi-stationary use (they can be moved...)

I'm thinking of buying a AP 85 and a corresponding module for the Basis (fits also in the CMS). Gives more sawing capacity than a TS 75 (how about a whole trunk:p ). So buying a TS 75 with a CMS module doesn't seem like an option with the compability between CMS and Basis.

[riri]

Hi Zuma,

I see that we are using the same setup. Do you know if a TS 55 fits into the ATF module? I sure hope it does.:eek: Otherwise, i think like you and consider buying a spare ATF just in case!!! The 85 module has not got the pull system does it?

riri

[zuma]

A TS55 most definately won't fit in a module 1A. The module 2A is suited for all other carcular saws of festool in the AT and AP range (So AT 65, AP 55, AP 65 and AP 85). However for each different type of saw you need another built-in set with the module 2A.

Here is a link to the original German festool catalogue of the basis system:
http://www.festool.de/download/s076_s093_bas.pdf

The module 2A hasn't got a pull system. However you can use on the basis system two types of sliding tables the SAS 500 and the ST 1120. I use the SAS 500. If you really need a pull saw with a capacity of 80mm you might look at the CS-80 system....

The pull saw facility on the module 1A is really nice when shortening long pieces of wood not thicker than 50 mm. If you need to shorten whole sheets you better use the MFT with an ATF or TS and a long enough rail.

[riri]

Thanks Zuma for this info and link. I guess i just have to keep my fingers crossed for my ATF:eek: which incidentally works beautifully. Do you if ATF's are still up for sale? I really use a lot the pull facility and i will surely miss it so i am prepared to buy a spare one:p . Crazy am i not?:D

riri

[zuma]

@Riri:

Since you're living in Bruxelles and you really want a spare ATF 55 I would like to suggest to search for a second hand, especially a second hand ATF which came on the second hand market because a TS was bought :)

Checkout websites such as www.marktplaats.nl (http://www.marktplaats.nl) or ebay (less second hand)

[riri]

Hi,

Here is a pic for Anthony of my workstation whenenever i am away from my shop. I am using the basis ( with ATF module ) in conjunction with the MFT which i use for support as well as a bench for clamping, cutting, routing etc.

Note also the extension on the basis which is ideal for long stocks.

With that equipement i can handle just about any tasks with ease and my back thanks me everyday.

Sorry that it took so long to get around to do this.

riri

[Ambers]

I just bought a Domino and TS 55 and am so impressed that I now am considering the CMS. I gather from what is said above that the TS 55 would fit the Basics table if I found a second hand one, but that it would be a different height to a new table if I ever wanted to add or get a multifunction table? Correct. On that basis I would be better to wait and buy the newer unit as I also get the benefit of the better slide on side table etc

[Frank-Jan]

If you already own a TS55 it is better to get the cms, the advantage you have with the basis only aplies if you have an ATF55 (the older model plunge saw). By this advantage (apart from the price if you buy second hand) I mean it features the pull-saw ability like the current CS- sawtables have, which is really a nice feature (I have a cs70eb myself). So in your case, what you say about the height and slide-table thing is correct.

[riri]

I just bought a Domino and TS 55 and am so impressed that I now am considering the CMS. I gather from what is said above that the TS 55 would fit the Basics table if I found a second hand one, but that it would be a different height to a new table if I ever wanted to add or get a multifunction table? Correct. On that basis I would be better to wait and buy the newer unit as I also get the benefit of the better slide on side table etc

The MFT is exactly the same height as the Basis. I am not sure it is the case with the CMS. Also, in my opinion the CMS is not quite the same standard of quality than that of the Basis. Having said that, one should live with its time and never regret the good old days.:no:

riri

[nt900]

Thanks of the pics Riri.

I assume you have a guide rail to go with that MFT. I can't see a cut mark on the MFT surface in those pictures. Or does your ATF55 stay in the Basis all the time?

How do you find the trimming attachment extension - they were never that big over here. Have you ever attached it to the MFT? Probably not if you are not using the MFT with a guide rail for trimming material that way.

I have been threatening to treat myself to one for some time, but never got around to it. For those who don't know, the trimming attachment is the long telescoping extension out the side of the Basis. It supports long lengths for trimming to length. Incorporates retracting tape measure.

I am a big fan of the Basis, but I have been warming to the CMS over the past few months. Attached is a pic of the CMS (with TS55 saw fitted) preparing some wardrobe drawers.

[zuma]

I have a very old non-telescopic trimming extension from the time festool was still 'festo'. It fits perfect on the basis but boy that thing is long and it's not easy to get it angled up just right because of it's length. It's also not very handy to trim different lengths because you have only one support under the extension. Therefore I use this extension in conjuction with my MFT. Then I have a support under virtualy every cm of the extension....

And there are sliding table extensions available for the Basis system..... A short one (basis sas 500) with 50 cm sliding capability (I have one). And a long one (basis ST 1120) with I a sliding capability of 1,12 m. The ST 1120 has even a longer sliding capability than the CMS which is is only 83 cm (based on the CS 50 ST)....

In short I still think the Basis system is more versatile than the CMS system. To make the CMS system even as versatile as the Basis much more has to be renewed. From all kind of extensions like trimming and long sliding tables to the MFT table as a perfect extended large support extension.

And as long as CMS modules fit in the Basis (which is the case....) I'm not complaining. I mean a TS 75 in my basis is not that bad, however I still prefer the AP 85... :rolleyes:


I'll make some piccies too of my setup in some time (I'm working in my new house) I have the whole attic as a workspace as long as the Master of the house, the wife, allows it...:(

[riri]

Hi Anthony,

It is true that i am rarely using the MFT as a stand for sawing ( mind you the top that you see on the picture has just been replaced, so i must be using it somehow:U ). As i said i use the MFT as a workbench ( remember this is when i am out of my workshop ) and it does wonders doing this. In fact i do not think i could ever do without it on a job no matter how small the job is. True the MFT is not light but when in place it saves you a lot of efforts.

I also use the MFT as support for sawing big sheets.

My basis is mainly fitted with the ATF55 except when i have the router module. Now that i have the TS 75 i do not need the ATF55 ( on its own ) as much as i used to. Sometimes when i find the 75 is too heavy i use the 55. I have no problem taking it out of the module.

I use a lot the extension arm. Zuma is right, it is not easy to set it right but it is well worth the effort. Once set, it saves you a lot of measuring time and spares you with costly mistakes. Once you have set it right ( i use a large engineer's square ) you know you are going to have you precise distance to the blade over and over. You can forget your measuring tape downstairs or upstairs, no problem. I do recommend it.

riri