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Slow6
17th Nov 2006, 07:22 PM
Gday folks :)

I have a few machines waiting for motors, an old cast iron table saw thanks to rowie that wants a single phase 3hp motor, My old woodfast lathe is begging to be an outboard only bowl lathe and wants a variable speed jobby and I've slowly scrounged a few old cast iron bench grinder spindles and plan on putting together a table for them with a 2 speed pulley get up. all easy enough.. but to my eye speeds come in at fast or faster, I can't look at a spinning saw blade and tell you even remotely how fast its going.

long story short... I remembered the little computer that I had as a youngster that would sit on the handlebars of my bike and tell me how fast I was going and (if I remember rightly) ppm's "peddles per minutes"
I doubt they would handle 3000 plus rpm's and I'd reckon it'd fly apart anyhow.. but it got me thinkin there must be something like this that one can retro fit to the final pulley or spindle of a machine and get an rpm readout.

or fit beside the pulley and have it read off a mark would make more sense.

am I dreaming?

or should I have knicked by the patents office before posting here:o

watson
17th Nov 2006, 07:46 PM
The latest and the previous SILICON CHIP magazine have a project on a Tachometer that you might find fille your need.
www.siliconchip.com.au

Regards,
Noel

bsrlee
17th Nov 2006, 07:53 PM
I'm pretty certain there are a few ready-built units around also - I'd say check at your local rev-head shop in the engine & tacho section.

Basically a strobe with a known frequency, when a mark on the rotating thingy stands still, you are at what-ever rpm.

tashammer
17th Nov 2006, 07:54 PM
i seem to recall a little device that had a dial on it that was connected to a small shaft that terminated in a cone-shaped rubber bit. i was told that what one did was to hold the rubber piece against a shaft which would spin and the speed would be shown on the dial.

The device was purely mechanical, no electronics at all. Now it has been some years since i had the thing and i do not know if they are still made.

The device was old when i acquired it about 40 years ago off an old bloke who said you can have that if you want it. Me, being a typical bower bird, said yes, thanks very much.

To picture it, think of the letter q, with the rubber bit being at the end of the tail of the q.

SawDustSniffer
17th Nov 2006, 09:14 PM
JayCar sell a hall effect sensor ZD-1902 for $4.95 http://www.jaycar.com.au/products_uploaded/ZD1902.pdf
in that pdf it will show you how to rig up a "notch sensor" then all you need is a good hz counter , cheap multimeters have them now
Qm-1535 for $29.95 from jaycar has a 0-20mhz with +- 0.05%
the hall effect sensor will only go to 23,000 Hz before it turns into a randem number generator ( not that bad )

needs a voltage regulator LM7805 with a few capacitors all under $5
http://jaycar.com.au/products_uploaded/LM7512C.pdf


so an old moble 6v powersuply ,a 7805 (+5v regulator ) , a hall effect sensor , some plugs so you can plug in your new multimeter and still use it as a mulitmeter for other things and you have your hz (not RPM , just devide by 60 )read out for $50 and a lot of stuffing around

hope i helped , if you dont have a soldering iron , i didn't

Slow6
17th Nov 2006, 10:15 PM
The latest and the previous SILICON CHIP magazine have a project on a Tachometer that you might find fille your need.
www.siliconchip.com.au (http://www.siliconchip.com.au)

Regards,
Noel

looked good, started reading an article about modifying a car tacho.. but had to subscribe to contine :( I reckon I've got the jist tho.. I'll see what I have left in the old holden pile. thanks Noel :)


I'm pretty certain there are a few ready-built units around also - I'd say check at your local rev-head shop in the engine & tacho section.

Basically a strobe with a known frequency, when a mark on the rotating thingy stands still, you are at what-ever rpm.

sounds like just the thing.. I'll pick the autopro blokes brains on monday. cheers bsr :)


i seem to recall a little device that had a dial on it that was connected to a small shaft that terminated in a cone-shaped rubber bit. i was told that what one did was to hold the rubber piece against a shaft which would spin and the speed would be shown on the dial.

The device was purely mechanical, no electronics at all. Now it has been some years since i had the thing and i do not know if they are still made.

The device was old when i acquired it about 40 years ago off an old bloke who said you can have that if you want it. Me, being a typical bower bird, said yes, thanks very much.

To picture it, think of the letter q, with the rubber bit being at the end of the tail of the q.

this is by far my favorite... I'm now destined to spend sunday trawling the bendigo swap meet asking people if the've seen a q with a rubber bit:o :sigh:

Slow6
17th Nov 2006, 10:17 PM
JayCar sell a hall effect sensor ZD-1902 for $4.95 http://www.jaycar.com.au/products_uploaded/ZD1902.pdf
in that pdf it will show you how to rig up a "notch sensor" then all you need is a good hz counter , cheap multimeters have them now
Qm-1535 for $29.95 from jaycar has a 0-20mhz with +- 0.05%
the hall effect sensor will only go to 23,000 RPM before it turns into a randem number generator ( not that bad )

needs a voltage regulator LM7805 with a few capacitors all under $5
http://jaycar.com.au/products_uploaded/LM7512C.pdf


so an old moble 6v powersuply ,a 7805 (+5v regulator ) , a hall effect sensor , some plugs so you can plug in your new multimeter and still use it as a mulitmeter for other things and you have your RPM read out for $50 and a lot of stuffing around

hope i helped , if you dont have a soldering iron , i didn't

good reading.. I do have a soldering iron... buuuuuuuuuut, I'm dangerouse with it. I reckon this would be a good one to take from machine to machine.
cheers sniffer :)

Skew ChiDAMN!!
17th Nov 2006, 10:33 PM
Open the chuck jaws right up, then rest a chisel on top while the lathe's running. Divide the no. of clicks you hear per minute by four. :p

Actually, somewhere around here I've got some old ETI magazines with easy to make tacho's in 'em. From memory, one uses a magnet on the shaft, which actuates a reed-switch... well... that one's probably not a good idea for a lathe, but t'other counts light reflected from a white dot. Just a dab of paint on the shaft and aim the tacho like a timing gun.

I really should see if I can find 'em and do something similar for myself...

SawDustSniffer
17th Nov 2006, 10:37 PM
hz is RPSeconds not RPMin sorry about that and you will also need a bridge rectifer , holds his head in shame

SawDustSniffer
17th Nov 2006, 11:00 PM
set up a set of points with a load resistor the same as a coil and use a tacko , might stop at 10,000 rpm , well the neadlel would hit the post
and have to find one for a 2 stroke moter bike ,
sends him back out to his holden stock pile

Slow6
17th Nov 2006, 11:11 PM
I really should see if I can find 'em and do something similar for myself...

if you do... would you be so kind as to throw a copy my way?

joe greiner
17th Nov 2006, 11:39 PM
On my list of things to do is a tachometer based on a bicycle speedometer. Not even on paper yet, so YMMV.

Even bicycle speedometers are now computerized. Sensor detects a metal bit; mine would be a nail or such in a wooden wheel, such as a wooden handwheel on my lathe, or the workpiece itself. With some arithmetical legerdemain, I lie to the computer about tire/tyre diameter and radius to the metal bit, so that it reports rpm directly.

I also have the q-thingy. But it doesn't report rpm, just counts revolutions. The rubber tip is placed in the lathe center/centre (little V-shaped hole) of the shaft. Hold in contact for 6 seconds and remove. Multiply displayed number by 10 to get rpm. Hold in contact again, as long as needed, to wind it further for reset to zero. (Winding back by hand is a PITA.)

Joe

tashammer
18th Nov 2006, 03:35 AM
...

I also have the q-thingy. But it doesn't report rpm, just counts revolutions. The rubber tip is placed in the lathe center/centre (little V-shaped hole) of the shaft. Hold in contact for 6 seconds and remove. Multiply displayed number by 10 to get rpm. Hold in contact again, as long as needed, to wind it further for reset to zero. (Winding back by hand is a PITA.)

Joe

Joe, is there a maker's name on the q-thingy? I wonder what it's real name is?

Tom

marker
18th Nov 2006, 12:02 PM
Jaycar list a optical digital tacho for $69.95 that reads from 2.5 to 99,999 RPM.That should cover most speeds.
Mark

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=QM1448&CATID=&keywords=digital+tachometer&SPECIAL=&form=KEYWORD&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=

Cliff Rogers
18th Nov 2006, 12:31 PM
G'day Slow.

I dicked around with this a while back, bought & built a car tacho kit, set up a wheel with 4 holes (4 cylinder car setting) & a light source & sensor, got it all working after a couple of weekends of dicking around, played with it for a while & found that I totally ignored it anyway.
My big variable speed Vicmarc lathe has a digital readout on it & I never look at it either.

Interesting aside to the hobby but of very little use in my opinion.

rsser
18th Nov 2006, 12:42 PM
Sigma bike speedos have been fitted by some guys to their motorbikes since they give a more accurate readout than stock units. The wrinkle here may be the size of the wheel - a bit less than 17-21" diam but you may be able to program in a sufficient adjustment. Think they cost around $60 and upwards and should be able to tell you how many km's your machine has travelled in a day as well ;-}

joe greiner
18th Nov 2006, 01:09 PM
q-thingy:

Tom, the manufacturer was L. S. Starrett Co., Athol, Mass. U.S.A. I think it's just called a "revolution counter." Mine has no patent number or date, but I found a picture of a similar instrument on the www; don't remember where or when, might have been eBay. That instrument shows patent dates (only) of Apr 13, 1897 and Mar 28, 1906. With several hundred patents issued each week, even back then, I didn't have the patience to wade through them all on the USPTO database. I have a vague recollection of replacement tips still being available.

I've never actually used mine; just keep it on my shelf of weird tools.

Joe

tashammer
18th Nov 2006, 01:16 PM
good one, thanks for that Joe.

hughie
18th Nov 2006, 02:46 PM
Rev counters come in all sorts of type and sizes: Strobe type very good but expensive, reflective beam type lesser cost and mechanical cheapest.
All are available from any engineering suppliers Blackwoods, AE Bakers etc
No doubt places like Jaycar, Dick Smith and Tandy will have chinese type el cheapos as well.
Should not be a problem to locate one, if you go for mechanical it will be the cheapest and the most reliable. I've had one for 30 years or so with no problems what so ever

Hope this helps

Slow6
18th Nov 2006, 03:02 PM
thanks guys :) a world of tacho options is being opened up to me.



G'day Slow.

I dicked around with this a while back, bought & built a car tacho kit, set up a wheel with 4 holes (4 cylinder car setting) & a light source & sensor, got it all working after a couple of weekends of dicking around, played with it for a while & found that I totally ignored it anyway.
My big variable speed Vicmarc lathe has a digital readout on it & I never look at it either.

Interesting aside to the hobby but of very little use in my opinion.

Gday Cliff. I'm with you on that point, I never looked at the readout when I had that msl-3815 monstrosity either:o what I'm more interested in is getting it right when I first set a machine up.. the table saw far example,
I have no idea what safe running speeds are, and I have to get new pulleys for it as some idiot (umm, that'd be me) threw the oldies out with the 3phase.
Its more smething I'd like to have in a drawer to use when I need it. and as I seem to keep accumulating 3 phase machines I reckon it'd get used.

I think I might keep an eye out for a ready to go jobby tho rather than lose any more weekends to fiddling and end up in the dog house.

I think bendigo has a jaycar.. so I'll check out those little digital jobbies next time I go that way.

Slow6
18th Nov 2006, 03:11 PM
is this like the "q" thing?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/OLD-RPM-COUNTER-USA-STATIONARY-GAS-ENGINE_W0QQitemZ220049214310QQihZ012QQcategoryZ4122QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

joe greiner
18th Nov 2006, 04:26 PM
q thing: Just about. That Millers Falls has a cylindrical handle. Starrett has sort of a triangle with rounded corners.

Here are some with digital readout by Record:
http://www.steamengine.com.au/ic/faq/rpm.html

They also show some Starrett models, but err in saying they measure rpm (directly, that is).

Joe

SawDustSniffer
18th Nov 2006, 04:33 PM
most car engines are 4 stroke engines , so the 4 pot motor will fire 2x every revolution , so you will need 2 holes (one drilled all the way through) for a tacko set to 4 pot mode , or 4 holes ( 2 drilled at 90deg all the way through ) and set the tacko to V8 ,

Slow6
20th Nov 2006, 12:23 AM
how cool is this!

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/STROBOSCOPE-RPM-OR-FREQUENCY-METER_W0QQitemZ170049880771QQihZ007QQcategoryZ25401QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

it'd do the job, not quite what I'm after... but looks like fun.

joe greiner
20th Nov 2006, 12:46 AM
Oooh! Love to have one of those. Could be handy to check details of turning without having to stop lathe, assuming phase angle can be diddled. But, these things can be dangerous around moving stuff. Really need to stay alert.

Joe