Triton 1400 router dropping bits

[old_picker]

Horror of horrors
Trton 1400 bought 2 days ago dropped a cmt 1/4" shank bit right out of the collett and hit the rubber matt on the floor. The top bearing and collar went in different directions. My first day working this machine and i had noticed twice earlier in the job the bit had dropped slightly. I always put a fair bit of strain on tightening up the collett. I have used a cheap gmc for 18 months and it has always held the bit like grim death, even with as little as 15mm in the collett.

As you woukld know the 1/4" collett on the triton is a sleave that fits into the 1/2" collett. I like the way the gmc 1/4" is a separate collett altogether, the same size as the 1/2" obviously though with a 1/4" hole. The bit in question is a 1/4" shank 1/2" in patteren follower italian [cmt] bit I bought from carbatech, which has done little work.

I have a good collection of 1/4" shank bits and many of them cant be on a 1/2" shank. To me the 1/2" shank is for the heavier ogee and other fancy bits with big cutters. The work I do requires bits with small cutters with bearings. I bought the smaller triton thinking it would easily do 1/4" bits.

So what is the deal with this 1/4" sleave thingy??
Does It work??
Is there an alternative??
What did I do wrong??
Is triton 1/4" different to cmt 1/4"

I am wondering what it would have been like if the bit hit a bit of me instead of the big rubbery mat on the floor

[ian]

So what is the deal with this 1/4" sleave thingy??
Does It work??
Is there an alternative??
What did I do wrong??
Is triton 1/4" different to cmt 1/4"

I am wondering what it would have been like if the bit hit a bit of me instead of the big rubbery mat on the floorwhy you using a beastie like the Triton with 1/4" bits?
I'd normally be reaching for Makita Trimmer with little bits like that

seriously,
What did I do wrong??the most likely cause is that the slot in the sleeve is not aligned with the slot in the collet.


ian

[old_picker]

why you using a beastie like the Triton with 1/4" bits?
I'd normally be reaching for Makita Trimmer with little bits like that

seriously, the most likely cause is that the slot in the sleeve is not aligned with the slot in the collet.
ian

I use a 1/2" pattern follower quite a bit [top bearing] Never thought of getting a trimmer. Would it cut a 1 1/2"" deep into a piece of well seasoned hardwood. I generally cut neck pockets, control and pickup routs in a guitar body with the 1/2" pattern follower. The template is on top. Cut most of the hole out with a forstner and clean up with the router. The 1/2" is ideal as many if the neck and pickup profiles etc have the same radius in the corners


Slots?? You mean the split from top to bottom in the main collet should line up with one of the 4 in the top of the insert?

[martrix]

Ian, never heard of having to align any slots with other slots..

Take some pics of your bits in question and post them.

Is your 1/4" collet a snug fit inside the 1/2"? and is your 1/4" cutter also a snug fit in the reducing collet? before you tighten any of them?

Never had a bit slip on me, 1/2" 1/4" with or without a reducing collet.

Most threads I have read on here with people that have problems with bits slipping, also seem to say they are trying to squeeze blood out of the router when tightening the bit...

It is not necessary to over tighten the bit and over tightening, be it a router bit, buzzer Gib screws or the head nut on a spindle moulder will cause metal fatigue, leading to premature failure:eek:

[ian]

Slots?? You mean the split from top to bottom in the main collet should line up with one of the 4 in the top of the insert?what I mean is the slot — that should go from one end of the insert to the other – should be aligned with the slot in the 1/2" collet
that way when you tighten the collet nut squeezing the 1/2" collet onto the sleve, the sleeve should also tighten around the 1/4" insert.

I don't know if a trimmer's got the guts to do what you're doing but given how light they are it would be worth a try, especially if nearly all the material has been removed already


ian

[old_picker]

There is a slot top to bottom in the main collett but the insert has 4 going almost to the bottom and another 4 [offset] going bottom almost to the top.

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=34714&stc=1&d=1163853500

Here is a pic of the bits you can see what i mean about the insert slots.
I don't get it :( by tghtening down the collet the insert should pinch onto the shank of the bit and hold it in place. Why isn't it?

Do triton make a 1/4" collett???

[TritonJapan]

Something's amiss here.

The new collets on the baby router are supposed to give a heck of a lot more gripping force than the type of collet in the big boy.

Somewhere I read a review or write up on the router that went into a bit of detail about the collet. It has a quirk that the reviewer took a while to get used to.

Whish I could recall where I read the article. May have been one of Dean's at www.onlinetoolreviews.com (http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com)

Steve

[old_picker]

heres a pic of the co;;ett and insert
34728

As you can see the insert is spilt 4 ways fom bottm and top. None of the slots go right through. The main collett is split top to bottom. There is a circlip on top of the the insert.

I found an review on this subject but it made me even more confused

[old_picker]

heres a pic of the two bits
34728

As you can see the insert is spilt 4 ways fom bottm and top. None of the slots go right through. The main collett is split top to bottom. There is a circlip on top of the the insert.

I found an review here (http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/reviews/tritonrouter2.htm) on this subject but it made me even more confused.

[JaD]

Well.....If it was me and I had just bought a shiny new Triton 1/2" router, I think I would just go and buy a set of CMT 1/2" router bits to go with it:D

hey?:) ...whats that????:confused: Did he????:eek: Really????:eek: The lucky old bugger:D :D :D

[martrix]

Most threads I have read on here with people that have problems with bits slipping, also seem to say they are trying to squeeze blood out of the router when tightening the bit...

It is not necessary to over tighten the bit and over tightening, be it a router bit, buzzer Gib screws or the head nut on a spindle moulder will cause metal fatigue, leading to premature failure:eek:

Watch this and see what I mean about not having too over-tighten...

http://www.nhwoodworker.com/triton2/bitchange.jpg (http://www.nhwoodworker.com/triton2/bitchange.wmv)

[ian]

Ray
I don't own, nor have I used your router

However, I've used a very similar arrangement.
There is tremendous friction between the collet and the insert and if the insert is not arranged correctly in respect to the collet (which on the unit I'm familiar with means aligning the slots), you cannot tighten the collet nut sufficiently to hold a 1/4" bit


hope this helps

ian

[lesmeyer]

Something's amiss here.

The new collets on the baby router are supposed to give a heck of a lot more gripping force than the type of collet in the big boy.

Steve
Steve,
here in OZ the baby router has the identical collet to the big boy. I would beg to differ on the above statement. I have discussed this before when I stated my disappointment at not getting the same collet setup as the Triton routers sold in the US. I still maintain that a reducing sleeve is not sold in the US due to safety concerns. However, Triton pull the wool over our eyes here in OZ by refusing to provide an actual 1/4" collet. It should be as simple and turning out the 1/2" collet and turning in the 1/4" collet. How difficult is it to manufacture some extra collets and provide them on the baby router sold in every country??
Les

[martrix]

Well with all this talk about some 'trick' collet design on the Triton routers and bits dropping out, you have all successfully sold me on not getting a triton.
I just have have a bog stock Hitachi TR-12 1500W 1/2" Router (http://www.justtools.com.au/prod219.htm) with a straight 1/4" collet insert that has a couple of grooves running through it.
1/2" or 1/4" bit, makes no difference. A solid workhorse..

[old_picker]

Well with all this talk about some 'trick' collet design on the Triton routers and bits dropping out, you have all successfully sold me on not getting a triton.

MMMM
Whisht I hadda sniffed around a bit more prior to buying it.
However I am happy with most of the features of the triton.

As far as the US collett design, I fnd the parts list at the triton US site (http://www.tritonwoodworking.com/tritontools/data/files/MOF001.pdf) lists the same collett insert as on my machine.

The removing of the bit in the video above is different to mine. There is no 2 stage unlock the bit. You just loosen the collett and the bit comes out.

It's all very well to say go get some new 1/2" bits but I caint afford em. I bought this machine as it had a 1/4" capacity so I could use the bits [quality cmt/carbitool] I already spent a few hundred $$ on.

I emailed triton re this issue and you guessed it no reply after 3 days....

I am pretty certain that I wont be buying the triton circular saw I have been eying off for the past few months. I will get a makita which is what I should have done this time.

[Wood Butcher]

I emailed triton re this issue and you guessed it no reply after 3 days....
Just because you haven't got a reply doesn't automatically mean that they are ignoring you, emails get lost from time to time!

Try calling them direct 1300 655 686. From the sounds of it you have an isolated problem that should be able to be fixed, just be patient.

[bennylaird]

Do you need some new 1/2 bits Ray?????

Hmmmm maybeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Stuart]

To each his own - I still have absolutely no problem in whole heartedly recommending the Triton, and I use both 1/4" & 1/2" bits.

The only problem I had (as documented recently) was an undersized 1/4" bit, that was solved by getting a better one.

I've used the 1400W recently very succesfully for signwriting with a 1/4" bit (as seen in the recent videos).

Sorry to hear you are having a problem Ray, but to clarify for the rest - there is no 'trick' collet reducer - same concept is used by many brands.

FWIW, Gifkins (as in the dovetail jig guy) now sells what he regards as a superior 1/4" reducer as the Carb-i-tool bits produced for his jig are 1/4", and I'm guessing there was a demand that he's addressing. (Not specifically related to Triton either). I think the main 'issue' that the Gifkins reducer was addressing, was that the reducer is typically a lot shorter than the hole, so it is more a juggling act to get the bit, and the reducer all in the right place before torquing the collet up. His one has a lip on it so it can't slip down. Not a real problem I've had, but then, he is changing 1/4" bits constantly, and his routers are always table mounted.

He also uses 2 Triton routers, so that must say something good about the Triton.

[Stuart]

Just because you haven't got a reply doesn't automatically mean that they are ignoring you, emails get lost from time to time!

Try calling them direct 1300 655 686. From the sounds of it you have an isolated problem that should be able to be fixed, just be patient.Or that they are flat out with Xmas just around the corner......

I'd check your email again, and perhaps your spam filter, because I was talking with them this morning, and I had the impression they had emailed you back. Anyway - today is Tuesday, so if no reply after 3 days - does that mean you emailed them on Saturday (seeing it was Saturday when you posted that you had a problem)? Would explain the delay in getting a reply then......

[Sprog]

here's a pic of the two bits
34728

As you can see the insert is spilt 4 ways from bottom and top. None of the slots go right through. The main collet is split top to bottom. There is a circlip on top of the the insert.


Have you read and understood the manual?
Is the taper on the collet nut and shaft clean?
Is the slot in the collet nut clear?
Are the slots in the collet reducer clear?
Have you measured the inside diameter of the collet reducer?
Have you measured the diameter of the router bit shaft?
Are you inserting the collet reducer so that the circlip sits flush with the collet nut?
Are you inserting at least 3/4 of the router bit shaft into the collet reducer?
There is no need to align the slots on the Triton router collet reducer, it is a four slot collet reducer and exerts equal pressure all around the router bit shaft.
Are you tightening the collet nut? No need to over do it, just a firm nip up.

[Sprog]

FWIW, Gifkins now sells what he regards as a superior 1/4" reducer as the Carb-i-tool bits produced for his jig are 1/4", and I'm guessing there was a demand that he's addressing. (Not specifically related to Triton either). I think the main 'issue' that the Gifkins reducer was addressing, was that the reducer is typically a lot shorter than the hole, so it is more a juggling act to get the bit, and the reducer all in the right place before torquing the collet up. His one has a lip on it so it can't slip down. Not a real problem I've had, but then, he is changing 1/4" bits constantly, and his routers are always table mounted.


Stuart,
Is there a circlip on your MOF001 triton reducer? That is supposed to stop it dropping too low into the hole and make it easier to remove.

The reducer on my TRA001 does not have a circlip but is the same four slot design.
Must be a design change for the later collets. Never been a problem for me not having the circlip. :D

[Stuart]

My reducer must be one of the older ones - that came with my 2400W - no circlip on that either.

[dalejw]

I've had the same problem with 1/4" bits in the Triton using the reducing sleeve.

Time for a bigger spanner

[old_picker]

Dale
have you solved the problem???

No reply from triton by thursday night so guess the email must be lost.

The collett insert has a circlip and it seems to be holding ok with a very tight squeeze and one of the insert slots lined up with the main slot in the collet.

If I lose another bit I will definitely be following up a bit more agressively

[Stuart]

Ray, did you read my post? You were sent a reply MONDAY MORNING. I know, because I read it. In fact, you have now been sent 2 replies, as I read that one as well yesterday.

Check your spam filter and the email address you provided Triton before bitching about not being replied to.

BTW, as it happens, the person who replied to you also read this thread, and found it very disappointing that despite the fact that he replied to your email as soon as he read it Monday morning, that you were on here sounding off the next day about how bad the customer service was. Nice way to "Win friends and influence people" there Ray.

[old_picker]

Ray, did you read my post? You were sent a reply MONDAY MORNING. I know, because I read it. In fact, you have now been sent 2 replies, as I read that one as well yesterday.


You have read read my emails?
How do you get to do that?
I wouldn't mind seeing them actually.

[Wood Butcher]

How do you get to do that?

I'm guessing that this might have something to do with it!
Declaration of Interest in Triton/GMC (http://woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=33518) by Stuart.

[dalejw]

Dale
have you solved the problem???



Yep.... bigger spanner.

[old_picker]

OK so now I know.
Stuart represents Triton.

Spam filter here is "low security" and we dont get to see what is strpped out
as opposd to "no security" where your spam gets dumped by so called interet security programs into a "spam folder on your hard drive"

Apologies to stuart and the other the triton people for going off half cocked the other day.

Seeing as those emails to me from triton are in the public domain stuart perhaps you could post them on the forum or at least pm them to me.

[Stuart]

No, I don't represent Triton, but I do demonstrate for them. Think the other thread spells it out better. I will still give comment, both good and bad, about Triton. Just means I might be able to source more info than perhaps the average person on the street.

In this instant, because it is well known in Triton that I am a moderator of these forums, that they showed me the email that had been sent, as a contrast to what was being said in this thread. The emails are not in the public domain - just because I had an opportunity to read a couple, doesn't mean I was sent it. With my multiple roles (demonstrator, Triton Club webmaster and past president, and Triton user), I am often down at Triton itself, having a chat, perving at the new tools, drumming up prizes for the club's end-of-year BBQ, trying to get some donated to the BB prize give-away, getting spares, researching any problems BB members have had and seeing how best to resolve the problem etc.

Never tried hiding my roles, so to spell it out again:

I have a workshop full of Triton gear
I am a past president of the Triton Club in Melbourne, and I own & run the website www.tritonwoodworkers.org.au
I demonstrate for Triton a couple of Saturdays a month and finally
I am a moderator on the Ubeaut Woodwork Forums.

[Shannon]

Old picker,

I had a similar problem back in August and posted a similar question.

I solved my problem the same way Dale did - tightened the hell out of it, but upon reading your thread, I am now thinking I may look into it a bit deeper again as it seems like a bandaid fix.

If you find any joy in your efforts please let us know, and I shall do the same.

Have fun over the weekend !!

[old_picker]

I am going to chase it through with triton
Will send an email using my private address and see if that one comes through.

If not will call them up when I get a chance.
WIll post back hopefully with a solution for you two guys with big spanners.

That's 3 of us now with similar issues.

[Stuart]

Ray,

I've had another talk with Triton this afternoon about your apparent inability to receive emails. I have checked the address you gave them against the one used on the forums, and they are the same, so that isn't the issue. You might want to whitelist the triton email server on your spam filter if possible.

Triton have sent me the following information to post here on their behalf.

We have not had ongoing problems with the reducer we supply but from time to time I get emails from users who are having difficulties and I believe we always sort them out.

In line with the other manufacturers of routers who we talk to, this can be a headache especially when manufacturing tolerances work to make life difficult.

We back our products with a strong guarantee and don’t expect our customers to put up with unacceptable performance and certainly will work with you to get a fix for your specific problem. Because of your email, I had a conversation yesterday here with our quality dept to discuss the possible reasons and then if we could identify the reason for your problem, how could we fix it. I also had a conversation with a regular contributor to the forum to see if there had been many comments recently about reducers not tightening.


Can you call me and we will arrange for any replacement parts to fix your problem. I understand you are in Melbourne. Can you drop it off to us or do you want me to collect it?

Cheers

Gordon (0417 553 638)

gheggie (at) triton.com.au


Last bit - I have left the email address and mobile number as they are already in the public domain. Email address has been modified to stop the email sniffing bots from finding it!

[RobP]

I'd just like to add my $0.02 worth.
I have emailed Gordon a few times and have always got prompt and helpful replies.
Cheers
Rob

[Shannon]

I need to make an addition here also - I have not been using the Triton reducing collet. The collet I was originally using I have had for years, and the new one is a bunnies one (all be it not their cheapie)
I will first recheck all the other things - make sure the router bits are the correct size and not the anomoly, reclean the collets, fit them with splines lining up etc etc.

Then I will look into trying the Triton one before going any further as this might be the solution for me.

If this step does not work, then I will look further afield.

Have a good weekend all.

[old_picker]

I need to make an addition here also - I have not been using the Triton reducing collet. The collet I was originally using I have had for years, and the new one is a bunnies one (all be it not their cheapie)
I will first recheck all the other things - make sure the router bits are the correct size and not the anomoly, reclean the collets, fit them with splines lining up etc etc.

Then I will look into trying the Triton one before going any further as this might be the solution for me.

If this step does not work, then I will look further afield.

Have a good weekend all.

So you can use non triton colletts??
Or is it an aftermarket part made to fit the triton??

[Shannon]

Hi Old picker,

I may have confused you a little - I was referring to the reducer part of the collet (reducing collet) the bit that takes it from 1/2 to 1/4"

[Sprog]

I had a similar problem back in August
I solved my problem the same way Dale did - tightened the hell out of it,

Shannon,
You should not have to overly tighten the collet, a nice firm nip up should do it.
Triton replaced the original 3 slot collet with a 4 slot collet.
The three slot collet caused vibration and the bit could come loose. The 4 slot collet fixed the problem.
Triton replaced the original 3 slot collets free of charge, don't know if this still applies though, it was a long time ago.

Old-Picker already has the 4 slot collet so something else is going on there.

[Longbow]

I experienced the same problem on the weekend. The reducing collet dropped from the Triton router MOF 001. Been rather safety aware I checked the bit was a snug fit in the reducing collet, then I gave the it the normal tightening pressure in the 1/2" collet. About 600mm later doing a 6mm rebate on rosewood it just fell out, causing damaging a half day of woodworking. I thought what if it had been my leg! The only thing that saved any injury to myself was the fact that the piece I was working on was clamped on the top of a bench and the bit hit the side as it fell.
I will ring Triton to-morrow but does anyone have anything updates on the previous incident? In my experience I don't think this will be an isolated incident.

[old_picker]

Isent mine back to triton and they replaced the collett reducer,
reason for fault?
a convergance of telorences.
i would contact triton and get it fixed
had no problems with mine since

[Longbow]

Thanks, I contacted Triton to-day and a new Collet is on the way.

[Stuart]

For those who are wondering (and haven't forgotten), I'm still following up with Triton to get some of the newer (US style) Triton collets for the BB.

[Redgy]

I've only just come across this thread but have also had exact same problem as Longbow with 001 big boy.... although mine is mounted in a table. 1/4" straight bit with 1/4" shaft in the reduction collet and part way through the cut the bit strated rising into the wood ie slipping out of the collet. I have tried tightening the hell out of it but frankly am a bit put off using small bits in it now. This after my speed control failed at 14months has left me a bit disappointed in the machine. I'll ring Triton or email Gordon.

Cheers
Reg

[Redgy]

I just want to report some excellent service from triton. Having only read this thread last week, I contacted Gordon Heggie and today a new reducer turned up in the mail. So thanks Gordon and Triton.:2tsup::2tsup:

Reg