Festool Precisio Cs70

[DPB]

With the number of posts recently inquirying about various "table saws", I have been wondering whether anyone has any experience with the Festool Precisio CS70?

I own a wonderful Festool sander, but can't imagine how this machine could possibly find a market @$3600. Is it a table saw?

Would appreciate some comments.

[John Saxton]

Although Festo has a niche market in quality tools ...predominately hand-tools ..for the life of me I cannot see where $3600 smackers is justified for that saw bench that looks too light to handle any serious timber!
My critique may be unjustified but going by that image and if that is so, then I for one would not waste money on gear like that irrespective of reputation.
My 2c worth
Cheers:)

[kenmil]

Personally, I think Festool are having a huge laugh at the expense of their suckers..errr...customers. There is no way their prices can be justified.:)
Come to think of it, some of the DeWalt pricing is ridiculous too. Every time I see that brand, the name "Black & Decker" rings in my ears, and I am reminded of my only contact with them over a DeWalt planer. Suffice it to say they are in the dark ages when it comes to customer service.

[Neil]

I can remember saying who in their right mind would pay around $600 for an electric sander. There are a lot of people out there with Festo Sanders of one sort or another.

When you put it in perspective their saw bench doesn't seem all that dear. Mind you, I could virtually set up an entire workshop with saw bench, buzzer, thicknesser, and bandsaw and still have change from the cost of the CS70. And if I was shopping at Timbecon I could probably throw in a drop saw lathe and sundry power tools.

I Love my Festo sander and cordless drill, but I also used to get along just fine without them. No way could I justify the price of the CS70 but I'll guarantee that there are some out there who can and have. Best of luck to them.

Cheers - Neil.:)

[q9]

Isn't that meant as a highly portable, scalable table saw? I have a feeling the target market is tradesmen, not hobbyists. I doubt it is meant as a workshops main saw...

[peter mikk]

i agree with q9, this saw is designed for site work, shop fitting etc. light and quick to set up on site. So the first question is what are you going to use it for?? Festo make really nice to use tools, although i am a little disapointed with my festo cordless, i can't find better sanders

[Little Festo]

Much more accurate than a Triton. Maybe a pro would want that accuracy and be prepared to pay for it to give a quality job on site. It's pretty portable and light too.

All the best - Peter

[Gino]

Little Festo

A triton is only as accurate as you make it, from a saw bench point of view.

Gino

[peter mikk]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kenmil
[B]Personally, I think Festool are having a huge laugh at the expense of their suckers..errr...customers. There is no way their prices can be justified.:)

think quality, not quantity, you must way up how much you are going to use a tool, and for what purpose. tools are like everything else in this world you get what you pay for. However, that is not to say everything expensive is good or that everything cheap is bad. for anybody who has spent hours doing a job, a good tool makes a lot of difference, and if you have never experienced a good tool, you would not be aware of what you are missing out on, and so go on being happy in what you are doing, it is only when somebody takes a good tool away from you do you become aware of what you had.

[kenmil]

Peter,
Thank you for the lecture. :)My point is this - there are cheap and basic products (not just tools) which do the job, but may break down or may not do it accurately or easily, and may be tiring to use regularly. Then there are better quality products which are a joy to use, and deliver excellent results. Then there are very "upmarket" products which are marketed as being totally superior to all others - almost on another level. Many of these are false claims, and are more about brand awareness, than product delivery.

I drive a Mercedes Benz, simply because I believe it to be the best automobile in the world, but in a couple of months, when I come to trade it in, I will buy something else, simply because the price difference does not translate into any meaningful benefits to me. Look closely at brand name clothing, say Armani suits, and ask yourself are they really three times better than a good quality suit you can buy in a good menswear store or from a tailor. The simple answer is - they are better, but not <b>that<b/> much better.

To me handyman/woodworkers talking about Festool is like kids talking about why they want Nike, or whatever brand is in vogue now. Yes, they are good quality, but are they 3 times better simply because their price is 3 times higher. That's the thinking that keeps marketing men in a job. Come in spinner.;)

[John Saxton]

Both Peter and Ken have again raised some glaringly overt points that price doe's not make the tool, a certain brand may equate with quality and perhaps a higher price but that may well be because of the quality control in the manufacturing process and with a better class of part input as well as the marketing as has been stated.

In all, irrespectively a good craftsman can make a tool sing if he is serious in his intent to do so.
Before the age of power tools many a craftsman made do with the handtools available and maintained them to effect their livelihood.

Take for example, a woodturning gouge and the technology required to produce the same and watch a class turner use it.
When he started out he probably used a cheaper production gouge with questionable steel qualities but as he became proficient he learn't how to grind and hone the tool to minimise steel loss and when he did replace the tool it was with the knowledge that he could move on to a better production tool with confidence.
A lot of power tools are also pigeon holed accordingly to price,robustness and the ability to do the job....thus horses for courses for each and everyone!
Cheers:)

[ubeaut]

Just curious. How much does it cost to set up a Triton along with a top class saw and vac?

[Iain]

The Festool Rotex is, I think, the only tool in its class, Makita have attempted to copy it but have failed.
Yes, I have Festool but I also have Ryobi, Makita, Bosch and a few others (including an Ozito planer) and later this year I will have a Jet table saw.
I have seen the Festool saw set up and I thought it looked light, but there track record is excellent and I am sure it is a purpose built machine for a niche market.
I buy what I think suits my needs, including my BMW in a past life because I thought it was a better vehicle than a Merc, and my Landcruiser because I think Patrols are crappily constructed.
To each their own, even if they are wrong :D:D

[nt900]

I own a Festool Precisio CS 70 (Full EB Set). I am very happy with it. Having been inspired into general woodworking through renovating my house, I can say that I am generally new to the art and learning all the time.

The CS 70 is the first table say I have ever owned. And was inspired to buy it after I purchased their CDD cordless drill. And since buying the CS 70, I have purchased their vac system and two sanders, the Rotex and the Duplex linear sander. I also own a number of non-Festool items where I did not need the quality or feature the Festool equivalent offered.

Back to the CS 70. If I had of owned one when I was doing the bulk of my renovation I would have been so much more productive. Any table saw would have been a benefit I guess. It is a perfect site saw, it can handle very large and heavy panels. I saw 3/4 inch marine ply sheets on it without any issues. As for the amount of power it has, I have never bogged it down. Not even a hint of it. I regularly cut 100 year old hardwoods on it at maximum capacity. I also use it to produce veneer stripes. 1mm jarrah, and sub-1mm softwoods. These are my experiences so far.

I do not think it will last as long as a cabinet saw. One concern I had when purchasing it. But then I came to realise all parts are easily replaceable if damage ever occurred.

I personally do not carry it from site to site, but do move it around the workshop. I am anticipating taking it to other renovations/new house sites in the future. One advantage of it is its ability to break down. To save workshop space sometimes, I remove the sliding table or extension tables and hand them on the wall. They are easily put back and do not need realigning when put back.

It would not be a table saw suitable to everyone, but I suggest everyone give one a try given the opportunity. By the way, it is quiet. By the way, it is also a pull say, which most of the cabinet saws are not.

Yes it is expensive, but I believe I am getting value for money from it.

Regards.

[doncameron]

As an owner of a cs70 my experiance has been very similar to nt900. I have owned several table saw in the past including a triton. The level of accuracy that I was able to attain even with detailed setting up was not suitable for my needs. The fact that the settings needed to be constantly checked particularly when changing modes(rip to crosscut) was a real headache.
I came across the cs70 several years ago when looking to upgrade to a quality tablesaw and sliding mitre. I baulked at the price but recently while doing a house renovation I coulded find an alernative with the same level of features, so I bought one. It cost no more than a quality table saw and sliding mitre saw combined.
My experiances have been mostly positive. The machine is very accurate and it has an astounding array af adjustments so that nothing is left to chance. The repeatability and consistancy of cuts is very high. The rip fence is adjustable to 0.1 of a mm. The unit takes justs seconds to go from rip to crosscut and back again. I have found projects such as frame and panel construction are completed in under half the time. My joint work is considerably neater than before. I have also noted an increase in work time due to the incredibly quiet opperation (sounds like a slightly louder vacuum cleaner) and efficient dust extraction. I am now able to operate under the house till at least 9pm without upsetting the neighbours.
Its a great machine and for me its paid for itself in just one project alone, a face frame kitchen.

[Suresh]

Thank you Don Cameron and nt90.
I currently have a Shopsmith benchsaw and was considering buying a better benchsaw or a SCMS. Your comments about the benefits of a well made and designed, be it expensive Festo, sawbench have made me reconsider what I will purchase.
I like the way this list has a robust but varied series of veiws and opinions on tools etc.
Suresh

[nt900]

Don and Suresh and All,

Don would be the first CS70 owner I have located online in any forum or web site. Congratulations!

Although I think the saw is great, I find the lack of information about it and the use of it somewhat lacking. Being a non-English speaking manufacturer, and the majority of users being in Germany, there is not a lot on the web of much use.

Don, have you discovered, adapted anything to or about you CS70? Jigs? Or the like?

I have modified my sliding table to take full sized sheets. I moved the fixing points further back down the rails and now I can lay a full 1200x2400 sheet across the sliding table and with a combination of sliding and pulling the saw blade forwards, cut these sheets with ease.

Regards.

[doncameron]

nt and shuresh

shuresh - theres not alot of similar style saws on the market in AUST. The most similar that I was able to come across was the Electra Beckum Secanta. I am led to believe that it has been withdrawn from the market due to low acceptance in the local market but is still selling well in Europe. It had similar features to the cs70 at about the same cost. I didnt feel that it would be as accurate as the festo, due to the general design and observable tolerance. One advantage that it does have over the festo and all other saw benches, is the ability of the blade saw to swivel 180 degrees inside the stand. This makes it possible to rip and crosscut from the one feed direction. I imagine that it is possible to do both operations, without moving the saw, in a single car garage space. Having to feed crosscut material from the left of the saw requires at least 3 m of space to the left of the saw. I was on 10acres and space was not a problem as I could cut in the open but moving to a suburban block now means that space is a premium.
nt900 - Hi ! yes there arent to many of us around yet. Its probably the price but maybe the quietness. My occasional forays on the net are becoming more occasional now that I'm working downstair at night. For your question a simple reply - No. Im too busy renovating. I will have a look at moving the sliding table connection in the next few days. When I get more time(soon hopefully) I will start to look for more possibilities. For the moment I have found that the saws accuracy has made an ideal partner to pocket hole joinery. More on this later - back to the grind.

[nt900]

What sort of house are you renovating. What is the extent of the work? If you don't mind my asking.

Regards