Scruffie

[jmk89]

Doing a bit of internet browsing yesterday while laid up in bed, I came across Scruffie (http://www.scruffie.com/).

I was quite interested in the designs for the boat after the PDR (which is still awaiting room in the garage for construction). They look both attractive and realtively simple (and they don't have booms to knock sailors silly.

Has anyone had any experience of the designs or this outfit? Any views I should consider when assessing these designs?

Cheers

Jeremy

[Daddles]

Unless things have changed recently, you can't buy plans, only a kit. The bits are all computer cut and when I spoke to the owner a few years back, he admitted that 'plans' as such don't actually exist.

I haven't used one of their boats and people seem happy with them, but bear in mind that both the rig and the lack of centreboard are a compromise - I leave someone like Mik to comment on how much that affects them in the 'real world'.

When I had discussions with them a few years back, the owner was pleasant, keen, willing to help and fanatical about his boats. The main thing that stopped me was cost - I just couldn't afford them.

Richard

[bitingmidge]

Their success is the result of a great deal of clever promotion by their designer, who once sold them on the basis of their simplicity of construction, and has created an international franchise from the brand. In the early days as I recall, they were marketed as "designed by a qualified cabinet maker" to make them easy to build, rather than a small boat designer.

There are lots of them built, no doubt to satisfied owners who have previously had no, or little sailing experience. Not meaning to sound catty, but the term "surprising" performance comes to mind again. To me this is a boat marketed to build rather than to sail.

There's an interesting picture of one sailing off the breeze (on the website), with the bloke on the helm using BOTH hands on the tiller. I'd worry about that on a boat that size in what only appears to be moderate conditions!

I have no experience with the later versions, and understand that a yacht designer has been engaged to get the underwater stuff togetherm so they may all be just fine.

For "character boats" that are reputed to work very well, I'd still check out http://www.nigelirens.demon.co.uk/, but build one of David Paynes! (http://www.payneyachts.com/)

I think that basing one's decision on the lack of boom "that knocks sailor's silly" is probably evidence of a past "silly knock"! :D Having sailed a few tens of thousands of miles in boats of all sizes, I would not even rank that as a criteria; actually I wouldn't invest serious money in a boat that didn't have a proper means of controlling sail shape.

Cheers,

P (boat snob)
:D

[Derek Ellard]

Just found this reference to our boats and thought I’d comment. Firstly we have never franchised our business, although we do have agents in the UK and in Sydney. It’s worth noting that there are over 300 of our boats in 6 different countries around the world and an average of around a quarter of our customers are professional seamen - thanks to clever marketing and, more importantly, clever design.

As to performance, here are a couple of examples. A standard Stornaway 18 versus a fleet of 30 assorted trailer sailers 18 to 26 feet averaged mid way up the fleet over a season’s racing. A standard Scintilla 24 lugsail yawl beat the lot of them – twice. A Secret 20 held off a fleet of racers from 18 to 60 feet in Sydney Harbour. Secret 20 will keep up with vintage Sydney Harbour 18 foot skiffs and J24s.

I design and develop all the boats from scratch and from day one we always worked with Col Clifford who does the computing but 90 per cent of the work is mine.

As to balance, even with the lee rails under in a blow, the Secret I was recently sailing (with its accurately controlled sail shape) was steered by the fingertips.

Lastly, we can forward a PDF file with a glowing reference from the commanding officer of the Australian Navy’s Best Cadet Training Unit 2006 who have just purchased their third Scruffie boat.

Derek Ellard
Scruffie Marine Pty Ltd
[email protected]

[Wild Dingo]

So there Midge ala the P {boat snob} :q

Gidday Derek
I spoke with you a couple of years ago about Secret and as I recall you mentioned you were hoping to get a larger version together {dont know if you recall we discussed potential Sydney Hobart participation?}
I have sorta done a bit of wandering since our discussions including a move
Anyway I was wondering how that was progressing?
Cheers
Shane {non boat snob :; }

[Derek Ellard]

Hello Shane

Yes I do remember. In a nutshell our busy life doesn't leave much time to develop glamorous racing gaffers but we have moved along a fair bit. The Secret 37's lines have finally been completed as have the rig and layout. We built a proper half model to check everything and there are photos on the website.

As to Sydney/Hobart, we missed last year and we've only got 9 months to next one but the National Maritime Museum at Darling Harbour and Sydney based Solar Sailor have both expressed favourable responses to sponsorship. Our sailmakers will also help as will an Australian plantation timber company so it's all quite feasible.

Quite how this would fit in with your own plans, I don't know but if you're still serious mortgage the farm, flat or wife and email me.

Regards Derek

[Wild Dingo]

Hello Shane

Yes I do remember. In a nutshell our busy life doesn't leave much time to develop glamorous racing gaffers but we have moved along a fair bit. The Secret 37's lines have finally been completed as have the rig and layout. We built a proper half model to check everything and there are photos on the website.

As to Sydney/Hobart, we missed last year and we've only got 9 months to next one but the National Maritime Museum at Darling Harbour and Sydney based Solar Sailor have both expressed favourable responses to sponsorship. Our sailmakers will also help as will an Australian plantation timber company so it's all quite feasible.

Quite how this would fit in with your own plans, I don't know but if you're still serious mortgage the farm, flat or wife and email me.

Regards Derek

:U :U yep can just see me mortguagin the missus!! :U :U

I will email you as Im having some probs getting anything but the main page secret herself and the photo gallery of secret... nothing else comes up for me
I also have a question or two regarding a slight rig addition :2tsup:
Cheers
Shane

[Derek Ellard]

Shane sorry about the web site problem – a few people have mentioned same but here is the advice given by our web master:

Microsoft no longer supports JAVA after they parted ways some years ago.

It should automatically go to the JAVA website then the user can choose to install or not to install the JAVA plug-in

Most people just install JAVA whenever they install a fresh copy of Windows because so many web apps out there still use it!

Just tell your customer to got to http://java.com/en/download/help/5000012500.xml (http://java.com/en/download/help/5000012500.xml) once installed it should work like normal.

Hope this helps

Regards

Derek

[Wild Dingo]

Derek that did not work for me... after our emails the other day I downloaded the java as directed but still cannot move past the entrance page secrets page and its photo page which is no help to anyone wanting to see what other designs you have

So in an effort to allow those others to view your other designs I will link to Whisper boats (http://www.whisperboats.co.uk/story.html) in the UK if theyre interersted in any they can then email you direct or through the site

Cheers
Shane

[Daddles]

So Derek. Why do you use a website that restricts access? You can't blame your customers if they can't read something you've (via your webmaster) created.

Richard

[dopeydriver]

I started on the Whisper site , as Dingo suggested , then I was able to switch to the Scruffie site , no problems.
Derek , if someone was interested in building say the Scintilla , would it be possible to contact a builder/sailer ? .
Rob Johnson

[Wild Dingo]

I started on the Whisper site , as Dingo suggested , then I was able to switch to the Scruffie site , no problems.
Derek , if someone was interested in building say the Scintilla , would it be possible to contact a builder/sailer ? .
Rob Johnson

Strange eh? I cant go anywhere other than the three pages refered to regardless of what I do but can get everything via the Whisper one... interesting

In our emails Derek said quite a number of builders were over here but Ive no idea who or where as that info wasnt passed on although I did ask if it was possible and he implied that it could be possible... thats how I read it anyway {my thoughts and view being that Derek could contact them first and if they wanted they could contact me that way it would be less intrusive for them but hey Id have no problem ringing or visiting them!!}

Richard I think hes having issues with his web master who thinks its an "easy fix" ergo downloading the java thing will fix all problems... but for me at least that easy fix didnt work... I dont think hes willingly using "a website that restricts access" I think more that hes being assured its an easy fix and believing that to be the case... which for me at least is not so

In the mean time or at least until he or his webmaster remedies the issues on and via the site itself there is the loop around through Whisper... bit inconvenient possibly but easy as in fact :;

On another tack Paul Gartsides site (http://www.gartsideboats.com/) is back up and running!!! :2tsup: after only 2 days of issues by potential customers after being advised of them yesty arvo theyre resolved the issues totally now :2tsup: :2tsup:

alright back to drooling

ooohhh yeah 26 Ft Gaff Cutter, Design #116 and have you seen 30 Ft Gaff Cutter, Design #109? what about 22 ft Motor launch, Design #141?? ooohhh gawd and 23 ft Steam Launch, Design #125 gawd I love that wee thing :2tsup:

Damn my eyes boy Im in serious trouble here!! :o :o :U

[dopeydriver]

Dingo , that 30 ft Gartside Gaff cutter is the one is was reffering to , in the article Paul wrote on keels and ballast.
I like his motor sailers though , but then I look at the Tassie boats , and think , why not ?.
rob j.

[Wild Dingo]

and think , why not ?

EXAKERTAKALLY!! :2tsup:

[dopeydriver]

Dingo , another Gartside boat Surprise1 and 2 , was written up by Paul Gartside.
Its a 22 ft cruising cutter he built for himself and his wife .
An interesting article , but I liked the last paragraph.
"With thousands of coastwise miles under the keel of the first Surprise , Gartside contemplates other design revisions:"A 40 footer with a wheelhouse and a diesel stovesprings to mind: but its easier to start a boat than to finish one." From that perspective , and from most other views , Surprise 11 seems quite beautiful , indeed."
Surprise 1 actually appears on his site , for sale.
Rob J.

[Wild Dingo]

Have you spoken with Barbara {his wife} about Surprise Rob? Should do so... shes a full bottle on that wee boat almost convinced me to buy it once but I tuffened up an stuck to me guns about intendin to build one :doh: ... and that was before the decided to actually sell it!... not that they were fed up or unhappy with it they werent just that she thought it would be ideal for my purposes

Barb's a great lady :2tsup: Pauls a lot more reserved :; Ive been yarnin to them for well over 7 years now good people :2tsup:

[dopeydriver]

No mate , I haven't spoken to Barbara , but I can see Surprise would be a good little boat.
Getting it down from Canada might test ya though mate !.
Rob Johnsonn

[dopeydriver]

Dingo , could you please contact me at [email protected] .
I've got some photos I'd like to send you.
Rob J.

[Wild Dingo]

Email sent :2tsup: Send away :;

Cheers
Shane

[dopeydriver]

Hey Dingo , I've got a heap of stuff from Derek , how does a yawl Scintilla full cab with inboard electric backup sound ?.
Rob J.

[Wild Dingo]

Sounds brilliant Rob!... I recieved some stuff from Derek and finally resolved the pricing issue... so its all good so far :;

[Dyf Nurgler]

The problem I have with your site Mr Ellard is that it is one of only three sites I have ever found in the entire universe that needs Internet Explorer. The other two were Microsoft (fair enough) and McAfee which has subsequently been fixed to run with Firefox (anyway). Hence I keep IE handy in case I need another look. Does that mean no Linux or Mac users will ever buy one of your kits?
The other problem is that one cannot download a large high quality picture of any of your boats in action to stick up as a desktop wallpaper. It's probably one of the cheaper forms of advertising you can do. Other designers should also do this. You want people to dream about your products and eyeballing a nice picture of one when you login each day isn't going to do any harm.

Cheers

Dyf