Building my Small Workbench

[thumbsucker]

Hello I have kind of outgrown my workmate bench. And I am need of a small workbench (1.2.x m wide x 1 m high) that can use to store my tools, as well as build projects with. I have some thoughts on the subject, and I am kind of working on some design I have seen online. Making them smaller, and simpler. I am willing to put allot of time and effort into this project.

I however have never built a bench and I am seeking advice.


Could I used red gum sleepers for a bench top? Because I want a solid timber bench, and I have found a garden centre that sells 4" x 9" x 2 meter's for red gum sleepers for like $12. Now they are not kiln dried or anything, just air dried (all grey looking) and most are no good. However I have been through their supply and have found 6 pieces that are good. - Also What other solid timber could I use for a bench top?

I was watching the wood whisper podcast, and he was showing how to make an end grain chopping board. I have also seen huge kitchen benches made in this fashion. I was wondering if doing the same would be a Cool idea for a work bench, because end grain, absorbs damage, cuts, and marks better (Or so I have been told by the wood whisper). I will be only using one timber, no fancy pattern. Is it worth it? Never seen it in a work bench.

I have found that I prefer to use dog pegs, and not so much the vice. I have seen where the bench and the end vice wooden body has dog pegs. Then you can position the work using both securely. Any suggestions or problems.


I have used photoshop to mock up a basic concept, with some basic measures.


My bench will have a tool tray (in grey), but it will be to the left side not running along the middle or back per normal.

I have market out the dog tag's with red squares. On the left of the bench you can see a cluster of red dog tag squares. I have seen this for securing odd shapes like seats. Any suggestions or problems.

Under the bench I have planed out space to use for tool storage, with pigeon holes for the planes and flat draws for other tools. Each draw will be subdivided into compartment, the concept is show with the blue box with the green dividers (img 03) - with one tool fitting into one space with in the draw.

Regarding vices, I have read that the lie-nielsen vices (http://au.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=quick#) are made in germany and are very good with limited racking. But the cost is $219 + shipping. Carbatec (http://www.carbatec.com.au/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=60_7730_7740) has a similar vice (but no Quick Release) for $74. Has anyone seen, used any of the lie-nielsen or carbatec vices and is the price worth it. Also where else can you buy good woodworking vices in Melbourne - yellow-pages gave me nothing.


I opted to place the vice on the side because I prefer dog tags and the vice and its contents would often be obstructed by the draws or vice versa in benches with both draws and vice on the same face/side of the bench.

The tool tray floor will be removable like the lie-nielsen bench's, for cleaning and clamping.

The measures are only guesstimates at this time.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Could I used red gum sleepers for a bench top? Because I want a solid timber bench, and I have found a garden centre that sells 4" x 9" x 2 meter's for red gum sleepers for like $12. Now they are not kiln dried or anything, just air dried (all grey looking) and most are no good. However I have been through their supply and have found 6 pieces that are good. - Also What other solid timber could I use for a bench top?

You'll find they're River RedGum and aren't particularly suitable. They will have flaws and resinous inclusions inside that you simply can't see. Any cutting will soon reveal 'em, and by Murphy's Law they're always in the worst possible place. Worse, it's very prone to movement, with some serious shrinkage over the next few years. Having said that, I've a small stockpile of "select" sleepers myself, that I've cut down into working stock of various sizes and am patiently waiting on it to cure properly. RRGum can have some mighty nice figuring if you're willing to put up with it's foibles. :rolleyes:

I doubt you want to wait several years for it to cure: if I were you I'd be more inclined to look at laminating up a top from KDHW or [gasp!] even 90x45 radiata pine studs if you really want something that solid...

[thumbsucker]

ChiDAMN thanks for the info. KDHW (Victorian Ash) is a little to soft for a bench top with a low Janka, I think???, would be possible for legs however. Pine, is an abomination, that is all I have to say on it.

Any other suggestions - I have access to some good 140 mm x 90 mm Red Iron Bark at $24 meter. Its very pale in colour and is so not as attractive as the rich deep red of the Red Iron Bark. Would cost me $192 for a small indestructible bench top.

If the bench is 72 cm deep one meter wide, I would need 8 meters of timber, turning the pieces on its side 9 + 9 + 9 + 9 + 9 + 9 + 9 + 9 == 72 cm

Overkill? :D

Ps. I want to pack the bench with weight, as the biggest problem I have had with the workmate was that it moved under me as I worked. Being small it must be heavy to make it stable enough.

[RufflyRustic]

Hiya Thumbsucker

Well, you've certainly thought long and hard about your workbench :H

Be wary of using such a heavy workbench top i.e. too top heavy, but I think you've already considered this, by the sounds of your post. There are many options for a workbench top. It depends on what work you want to do there. I agree that hardwood would definitely be good for the work you do.

Marc's pretty cool - his work is great! :)
You could indeed use end grain for the workbench top, but I feel it would get too uneven very quickly and be a pain rather than a help. I'm only guessing here as I've never had the opportunity to use such a work surface.

I like where you've got the vice, especially when matched with the dog peg holes.

Gotta agree that the tool well should have a removeable bottom for cleaning etc

Your plans look pretty darn good.

Good luck with it - I'm very interested in seeing how you go with it - I hope you'll keep us updated.

cheers
Wendy

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I guess it depends on what sort of woodwork you're doing, I guess. KDHW suits me fine, with a sacrificial melamine top. That'd be a bit awkward on your table, with all those dog holes. Personally, I'm happy just to tack a couple of offcuts to the bench-top... that's why the melamine's sacrificial. ;)

I have to agree about the pine, but Red Iron Bark? Wow! That'd make for one nice bench...

[Pat]

Thumbs, on the Vice issue, try to get an old Dawn 7" or 9" with QR. I have a 9" Dawn and a 7" Record for my partially completed bench. I have used both on the Temporary bench that I have been using for the last three years:yeah:

Personally I'd go the Ironbark, a bench does not have to look pretty, but it does have to stay in one place and not wander all around the shed when you plane stuff:~

What method of joinery do you propose to use, traditional Mortice & Tenon or Bolt it together and pray? My "Temporary" bench is a Bolt and Pray thing, moves like it wants to dance, even though I have added additional stretchers. I have gone the traditional route with the new bench, cutting out Mortice and Tenons is good practice of my woodwrecking skills:)

What ever you decide you have to be happy with it. Enjoy the journey of the bench, mine's Two years so far and I plan to finish it these holidays:D

[thumbsucker]

Thank you all for your support.

Pat thanks for pointing me in the direction of dawn, their factory is just up the road from me. you say get an old Dawn, is the new not as good as the old? Looking for old Dawn vices, am I looking at Sunday markets? Nothing on ebay.

Regarding what method of joinery do you propose to use, I will be going the gone the traditional route, cutting out Mortice and Tenon's as it is good practice of my woodwrecking skills, as you say.

I will most likely make the joints the same way David Charlesworth does it for his benches. Very solid.

I am learning, however I found that I really like the dog pegs for my planing. I also use shooting boards, and bench hook's. I am not a fan of "tack a couple of off-cuts to the bench-top", it damages the bench, a melamine sheet feels wrong to me. However worst of all, I have seen allot of people damage their planes that way (a girlfriends father). In a rush they nail an off-cut to the bench and do not countersink the nail head, then in his excitement run's the plane bottom over the exposed nail head, gouging out the plane. :mad:

Regarding "Be wary of using such a heavy workbench top i.e. too top heavy" - To be honest it is a concern - the bench turning into a 4WD and turning over considering how small the base is. The hope is that the legs being 4 x 4 with strong cross beams and the Tool box placed low and in the centre will give me enough. If it still not enough, I was thinking of getting a 5 cm x 70 cm x 100 cm sheet of Lead or Iron and having a rebated edge at the bottom for bench. Would that help?

The end grain for bench top is a nice idea however it would be allot of work, being flat is king for any bench. So I will give it a miss this time.

I was thinking about the bottom of the bench, who has seen the Lie-Nielson bench with the sled feet (http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?cat=535) - Can anyone tell me how the sled compares to the more standard 4 legs. I was thinking that the sled increases the amount of contact the floor has with the bench (Also I could attach heavy sticky rubber to the sled base), it also drives the centre of gravity for the bench even lower - possible making it more stable. Any suggestions or problems.

Regarding the bench top thickness. The Lie-Nielsen bench's "have a 2½" top with 5¼" thick ends and edges." Is this average, or normal for a bench top?

Using the 14 cm x 9 cm Red Iron Bark -- I have two options -

I could place the timber 9 + 9 + 9 + 9 + 9 + 9 + 9 + 9 == 72 cm wide and 14 cm (5.5") high bench top. Cost $192

OR

I could place the timber 14 + 14 + 14 + 14 + 14 == 70 cm wide and have a 9 cm (3.5") high bench top. Cost $120

Considering that I aim to have end's and edges to my bench top, Would the second option be still OK?

If you are wondering why a keep referring back to Lie-Nielsen its because I love their tools and the Lie-Nielsen bench won the fine wood working editors choice for a recent bench review. :o by my addiction. :D

Friends, not woodworkers have suggested that I add heavy industrial wheels to the base with looking mechanisms. Reasoning that it would be easer to move, when I move, but, I think that no matter how heavy the wheels it wil never be as stable. Any suggestions or problems.

Many thanks..

[RufflyRustic]

Sled feet are a plus in my books, especially when they can be used as a counter weight for the top :H

As for wheels to move the bench, only if you can raise/lower them so that they don't get in the way of your feet when at the bench and don't help the bench to travel when in use.

cheers
Wendy

[BobL]

RE: Sled Feet: Just remember sled feet only work if you have a level and even floor.



I want to pack the bench with weight, as the biggest problem I have had with the workmate was that it moved under me as I worked. Being small it must be heavy to make it stable enough.

If you use chunky enough timber for the bench frame and build it so that it doesn't rack easily you shouldn't need to add extra weight. Seeing its quite a small bench and you are putting so much weight at the top you may want to add something like a double thickness legs and frame at the bottom,

FWIW My bench (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=28519) frame was made with what I already had on hand (100 x 50 and 200 x 50 Jarrah, and 95 x 95 and 90 x 45 crapiata, and has a cheap 19 mm plywood top held down with Z-clips. The frame is bolted together with 3/8" bolts which means I had to retighten the bolts a couple of times in the first few months but it has not moved since. My floor is uneven and so I also added adjustable height feet. I've since added MDF vertical tool drawers which are almost full of tools, so now its so heavy it aint going nowhere. It's far from a thing of beauty but it works extremely well.

[fletty]

Hi thumb'
Don't rule out the Victorian Ash top. Mine is made from it and is wearing beautifully.
Fletty

[thumbsucker]

I am about the assemble the top of the bench and I have to make a decision regarding round or square dog pegs.

Round pegs seem easy, just make the bench and drill. Where the square pegs seems to more exacting work.

Question is their a real difference in performance or is it simple preference between a square and round pegs. Their seems to be more hardware for 3/4" dog holes. Veritas in particular. Are the dog pegs just straight 3/4 holes?

Because I was reading the some people make one face of square dog hole taper by 2º. To aid in the wedging of the peg is this over kill.

Or should I go for a row of squarers and a row of round dog holes?

I am also drifting towards a leg vice likeChristopher Schwarz,
Editor for woodworking-magazine has been building (http://www.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/CategoryView,category,English%20Workbench.aspx) I like the front skirt for supporting long pieces.

I will still keep on the dog holes, but instead of placing a tail vice on such a small bench using the Veritas® Wonder Dogs & Wonder Pups (http://www.carbatec.com.au/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=60_7800_7870) - Any experiences using these?

I am also drifting to not having storage space below the bench (wall mounted instead), because its so small I think the angled legs may be the better option - I have heard it creates a more stable base. Again see Christopher Schwarz, English Workbench (http://www.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/CategoryView,category,English%20Workbench.aspx) I like the front skirt for supporting long pieces.

I am also exploring the idea of a horizontal tool well running left to right instead of running front to back on the side.

Choice to make.

[Paul Chapman]

Round pegs seem easy, just make the bench and drill. Where the square pegs seems to more exacting work.

Question is their a real difference in performance or is it simple preference between a square and round pegs. Their seems to be more hardware for 3/4" dog holes. Veritas in particular. Are the dog pegs just straight 3/4 holes?



I will still keep on the dog holes, but instead of placing a tail vice on such a small bench using the Veritas® Wonder Dogs & Wonder Pups (http://www.carbatec.com.au/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=60_7800_7870) - Any experiences using these?




I find round dogs more versatile because they can be swivelled round to grip work that isn't square. The Veritas ones are excellent.

The Wonder Dogs and Wonder Pups are also excellent - I use mine frequently. However, I would also go for a vice with a dog fitted because there is a limit to how low a Wonder Dog or Pup will go. You can adjust a dog fitted to a vice from zero upwards. You could either go for a vice with a built-in dog or fit a Vertas dog to an extra thick wooden face on the moveable vice jaw.

Hope this helps.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

[jmk89]

:wink:[quote=thumbsucker;455897]
Round pegs seem easy, just make the bench and drill. Where the square pegs seems to more exacting work.

Question is their a real difference in performance or is it simple preference between a square and round pegs. Their seems to be more hardware for 3/4" dog holes. Veritas in particular. Are the dog pegs just straight 3/4 holes?

Because I was reading the some people make one face of square dog hole taper by 2º. To aid in the wedging of the peg is this over kill.

Or should I go for a row of squarers and a row of round dog holes?



I will still keep on the dog holes, but instead of placing a tail vice on such a small bench using the Veritas® Wonder Dogs & Wonder Pups (http://www.carbatec.com.au/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=60_7800_7870) - Any experiences using these?

[quote]

I use and like the Veritas Bench Dogs and Pups and Wonder Dogs adn Wonder pups. The 2 degrees is built into the Dogs and Pups and I find it helpful as it gives a little downward pressure to the piece (assuming that the 3/4" hole is exactly vertical:wink: ). I agree with what Paul said.

I would also recommend getting a couple of the Verital Bench Holddowns as well - they also use 3/4" holes and give another useful holding option.

If you have all that with a front vice, you don't really need much more (except Jake's fish scaler (or sawtooth) holders (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=38354)) (I just need to work out how to make them work with 3/4" hole)

So I would just drill rows of 3/4" holes.

Cheers

Jeremy

[dazzler]

The latest edition of Australian Woodsmith has a great little bench with plans and pictures. Worth a look. :2tsup:

[thumbsucker]

I find round dogs more versatile because they can be swivelled round to grip work that isn't square

Good point.


I use and like the Veritas Bench Dogs and Pups and Wonder Dogs adn Wonder pups. The 2 degrees is built into the Dogs and Pups

That is good to know, makes making the holes simpler.


I would also go for a vice with a dog fitted because there is a limit to how low a Wonder Dog or Pup will go.

Can you add dog hole to the top of a leg vice?

[TassieKiwi]

Good point.



That is good to know, makes making the holes simpler.



Can you add dog hole to the top of a leg vice?

I have the wonderdog & pup, and the Veritas holddown. With some thin battens you can secure anything. One advantage/disdvantage with the round holes is that they rotate - makes them adaptable, but you need to be smarter when dealing with smaller pieces.


That vice of yours would suffer from racking - you'd find yourself using packers. Have you considered the lee valley twin-screw?

[thumbsucker]

round holes is that they rotate - makes them adaptable, but you need to be smarter when dealing with smaller pieces.

That sounds bad since it is a small bench and small jobs is what I mostly deal with.

It seems that veritas is the only show in town for Bench Hold-downs & Accessories. Veritas preferes round is their a maker of Bench Hold-downs & Accessories that use square hole.


That vice of yours would suffer from racking - you'd find yourself using packers. Have you considered the lee valley twin-screw?

My impression is that the parralel guide in what ever form shape it takes care of the racking.

[BobL]

Can you add dog hole to the top of a leg vice?

Almost all leg vices I have seen have a front face or jaw that connects to or pivots at its bottom edge on the back face or leg. This means the top of the front face does not move parallel with but at a slight angle to the top of the bench. A dog hole drilled in the top of the movable face/jaw will need to take this change in angle into account.

[thumbsucker]

Hello

I am ready to make the next move in building my bench, i.e. the bench top.

I had 4 pieces of red ironbark (2" x 6") and 4 pieces of spotted gum (2" x 3") cut and machined.

The plan is to butt joint the red ironbark to form the center of the bench, then I am using the spotted gum as edge framing to the bench top.

The plan is to use Mortise and tenon to joint the spotted gum.

The question however is what piece of spotted gum should be the mortice and what should be tenon. Since the red ironbark timber is going to expand on its sides (the black arrows) more then its ends, is it adviced to place the tenon running with the direction of the expansion like the pink mortices at the bottom.

Or should the tenon run 90º to the force of the expanding red ironbark like the yellow tenon. So as to hold it more.

Or is it really not that important.

Ps. I cut my first mortice and tenon by hand using a backsaw and chisel, out of spotted gum for practice. The question is how tight is tight enough. I do not need to smash the tenon into the mortice a light hand pressure will do it. The tenon does not wobble side to side but it can be wiggled out by moving it up and down.

Also how clean must the checks of the tenon and the mortice be all I have are mortising chisels, and a LA block plane?

Should I wait until I can afford a shoulder plane and a skew block plane before bothering to glue it all up.

I am getting pairing chisels soon.

I want to do the best job I can.

[thumbsucker]

Any one?

[Cliff Rogers]

Neither, you need to 'breadboard' the end pieces.
Well, maybe the yellow ones if they are a loose fit.

I have a book with pictures to describe it but I can't photocopy it & post it..

Have a look at this plan.
http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/woodworking/images/bedside_table.pdf

Fine Woodworking #106 has a detailed article on making breadboard ends.
Also in Fine Woodworking #141 & you can buy the plans here.
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ProjectsAndDesign/ProjectsAndDesignPDF.aspx?id=2640

There is a description here, 2nd & 3rd para on making the top.
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/features/fea.asp?id=1045

:google2:

[thumbsucker]

Neither, you need to 'breadboard' the end pieces.

Thank you, I have the pdf for the Taunton article. Will study it.