"Sydney Putt-Putt" search

[TK1]

Hi all,

Firstly, a happy new year to all :2tsup: 'Tis the year to finally start building a boat :D

Secondly... not usre if anyone here can help, but one design I quite liked - but can't find any info on - is what was (I think) described as a "Sydney Putt-Putt" - I found pics of it in a 'for sale' website last year, but lost the pics and description when moving to a new computer.

What I recall, apart form it being in Pittwater and for sale, was that it was like a cross between a David Payne motor launch and the Glen-L Harbourmaster, but at around 25' and - the main attraction - seemed to be quite high in the sides. This was highlighted by it having an enclosed bow (maybe 4' - 6') and two doors with a hatch above, containing a head. This was only provate if you sat down (described in the ad I think as 'amenety for the ladies on board'!). So this implied the hull depth was maybe 4 or 5 feet.

Other features were it was painted in that creamy-yellow colour of old british navy ships, had metal rails for a canopy, small motor box in the centre and was tiller steered.

Looked about 25' LOA x 7 - 8' beam, open apart from enclosed head at bow. Had large Aussie flag on stern-mounted staff.

Does this style (or particular boat) ring any bells with anyone? I wanted something a bit 'deeper' than the Payne launches (to enclose the kids and be a bit more seaworthy when standing) and this seemed to fit the criteria...but now I can't find it. May have been clinker-built too.

Any help appreciated, or links to plans of similar boats! Something to potter around bays and lakes in with the family whilst building the next boat :D . Must get a start on this new year's resolution to start building a boat :rolleyes:

Thanks,
Darren

[Daddles]

Have another look at the Payne boats Darren. Having helped build his 6m Motor Cruiser, they are very seaworthy and very safe for kids - if a kid is going to fall out of one of those things, you've go no show of keeping them in a boat.

Apart from that, as soon as you said "Sydney Putt-Putt", I thought David Payne. So have another look at his website, even if it's just to convince yourself (once again).

Richard

[TK1]

Hi Richard,

Thanks. I do like David's designs, and a couple are definitely on my shortlist of what to build first...however when looking again I remembered the other boat, and it seemed unique in being a similar style but more internal volume. It seemed to have been from a manufacturer so I hoped someone may have an idea about it.

But I'll definitely look at David's 6m again...certainly a nice looking boat for what I want.

Regards,
Darren

[Cliff Rogers]

Here are a couple. :wink: :D

http://www.sciencetoymaker.org/boat/index.htm

http://users.bigpond.net.au/mechtoys/putt.html

http://www.scitoys.com/scitoys/scitoys/thermo/thermo.html#heat

[Boatmik]

Howdy Darren,

I think David's are the best resolved plans for these types of boats that I've seen.

You could always add a bit more height to the sheer yourself. I wouldn't go crazy with it but 100mm wouldn't hurt.

It might throw the nice lines of David's sheers out though. So the strategy is to build the whole sheer that bit extra and then when the boat is upright run a batten down the sheer and look at it from lots of angles, adjusting it until it looks right.

Michael Storer

[TK1]

Hi,

Having had another look, I think David's are the closest. The one I saw advertised just had nice character. I found a couple of UK plans of similar styles but wouldn't mind doing something Australian. Will seriously consider his 6m ones...or maybe the Cinema...or the Russcraft is nice. So many options!

Thanks for the suggestions...I liked Cliff's options, certainly easier to build but just a little on the small side (perhaps one for each foot?).

Any comments on David's plans - ease of use, problems, etc? Another reason I'd prefer to buy local plans than from o/seas, I know some people who have had problems with certain plans not being accurate or fair when built.

Thanks,
Darren

[Boatmik]

After years of selling other peoples' plans there are a few designers that can put plans together that don't result in lots of nervous phone calls from the builders.

David Payne is one of them.

Not that there are never problems - but the problems are few and easily resolved.

Michael Storer

[Daddles]

I like David's plans. Complete. Accurate. He uses full sized prototypes to sort things out (we were building them at TAFE). He's good :2tsup:
My only concern with them is that while all the information is there, it can take a bit of digging to find it if you're not used to boat plans.

Richard

[Boatmik]

Good summary Daddles.

MIK

[TK1]

Hi,

Thanks Richard (and Mik!). Sounds good enough for me, and as stated if I do run into trouble I like the fact we'd be in the same time zone :)

I don't have problems interpreting plans - although they're models, the boats/ships I build are done "as the real thing" and many are built off plans where all the notes are in French, Italian, Spanish or with no notes, just the lines and offsets. So having English instructions and someone to call when stuck would be like heaven!

Hope to start building later this year once plan is decided upon, garage is sorted, deck is built, a couple of model commissions are finished, and SWMBO gives me permission and releases the finances!

Regard,s
Darren

[Daddles]

Hope to start building later this year once plan is decided upon, garage is sorted, deck is built, a couple of model commissions are finished, and SWMBO gives me permission and releases the finances!

Regard,s
Darren

Doing it on the never never are you? :rolleyes:

Richard

[TK1]

Doing it on the never never are you? :rolleyes:

Richard

Just about - it's been a long, hard slog but I think she's coming around. I've convinced her I've definitely found my passion with boats, and if I'm going to spend 2 years making one, it may as well be a real one as opposed to sitting on the mantlepiece!

She did appreciate a couple of Wooden Boat Shop boats at the last Melb boat show (the Nepean, but at $300K+ a little outside our price range :( ) and she's coming to the Hobart wooden boat fest in Feb with me - and knows that's when the trouble will start!

Deck should be done in the next month or so and models finished by April, and will use the money form them to buy the initial supplies :-)

Besides, I wouldn''t be doing it right unless I spent a few years dreaming, a few more poring over plans, another getting set up and then a couple of years making sawdust and crying into a pot of epoxy :D

Regards,
Darren

[Daddles]

Don't forget buying more plans than you need (the Wild Dingo factor :p), changing your mind more often than she does in a dress shop :C and getting halfway through the build before realising that you chose the wrong design :doh: (it's okay, most people fall in love with the thing before the end anyway :D)

Richard

[Boatmik]

I don't have problems interpreting plans - although they're models, the boats/ships I build are done "as the real thing"

If you've only built model boats ...

...you might be pleasantly surprised about the reduction in both cost and labour per unit length!!!

MIK

[graemet]

Hi,

Any comments on David's plans - ease of use, problems, etc? Another reason I'd prefer to buy local plans than from o/seas, I know some people who have had problems with certain plans not being accurate or fair when built.

Thanks,
Darren
Having bought and built one of David's plans as the prototype, I can assure all and sundry that the guy is a genius. I never had to modify any of the profiles or alter any of the frames to achieve a fair hull. The hull built to the design using the scantlings as specified, floated to its marks and performed to its expectations. Any questions that I had were answered more than promptly. David even came down to watch the initial prelaunching ( that's the one you do the week before you ask all and sundry to come and watch your pride and joy go in the water for the first time - saves heaps of embarrassment if you've forgotten to bring the rudder or something like that).
See my thread on the 18' trailer sailer.
Cheers
Graeme

[Wild Dingo]

Don't forget buying more plans than you need (the Wild Dingo factor :p), changing your mind more often than she does in a dress shop :C and getting halfway through the build before realising that you chose the wrong design :doh: (it's okay, most people fall in love with the thing before the end anyway :D)

Richard

NO BLOODY FAIR YER FLAMIN WOMBAT!!! :~

I have fallen in love with every single set of plans Ive chosent ot buy! EVERYONE OF THEM!!!... touble with that love affair is that it gets somewhat addictive :; The other side of the coin is you end up with a swag of designs that you dont want need or intend to even attempt to build AND as a bonus you end up with several keels several tillers a couple of wheels a few different rudders and a whole shyteload of bits and bobs for different boat designs you no longer intend building :C

I admit initially I wanted a Wharram... YES I BLOODY WELL DID!! There Ive said it :q BUT on reflection I decided I wanted a bloody great Murray Peterson Coaster Schooner then I had this love affair with a 130 year old boat from Sweden now in Nova Scotia named Elly... sigh... then came Fame then came Sorkust then came a bloody great multitude of others till finally her bloody highness put her foot down and yelled "ENOUGH YER FLAMIN GALAH!!!" so I stopped... I actually had stopped you know :B But then we had this flood you see and well I sorta lost pretty much all of the gathered and sourced plans twere seriously sad I can tell you... but then some generous souls upon hearing of my loss restored them to me by sending me another set not all but some of them came back... one even went to the trouble of laminating them!! "Just in case" :2tsup:

But even so... As much as I like these ones I have... and the ones I drool over by Aussie designers... I still return to St Valery and Noyo Trawler they just seem to my eye right you know? and well fishin is what I want to do as she her bloody highness has now informed me she has "NO bloody intention of ever setting foot and living on a boat for months on end in the ocean with just you!" so my dreams of an oceaneerin swashbucklin future is out the window... but a week away fishin? thats right on the cards I reckon :2tsup:

Now if I can just nick the damned purse from her Id be right eh? :U

[Boatmik]

In terms of passion for boats goes - DINGO, YOU ARE A LEGEND!

We need at least one of someone like you on this forum - you need to be bottled.

(Dunno if we could ever sell the bottle though)

MIK

[Daddles]

No, we only need one of him, but yeah, Shane adds heaps of passion to this place and he's a bloody nice bloke to boot.

Richard

[Wild Dingo]

aaawww shucks fellas yer makin me blush :B

Nahh!!! :U :U :U

Ive always been a bit manic with me passions :roll: ... and well... boats are a passion right?...

For me yer gotta get RIGHT into them eh? no half measures no woosy "oh I want a boat... sorta... maybe... kinda"

but RIGHT into it!!

Like "IM GONNA HAVE ME A FLAMIN BOAT!!!" An its gonna be the ridgeydidgest hotshytest bestest of the bestest flamin boat this side of ANYFRIGGINWHERE!" :2tsup:

Passion mates passion... without passion its just a plain ol everyday same same desire thing... passion brings out the FIRE in the desire... passion is what makes it believable even in the face of the missus the hoons the work and sigh... the reality... the passion keeps the flames alive!! :2tsup: :2tsup:

See I reckon anyone can think "I want a boat"... anyone can say "I want a boat"... hell anyone can build a boat... mmm okay maybe not everyone :roll: ... but still without PASSION its only ever gonna be an empty dream with PASSION the dream becomes reality... eventually :doh:

Now maybe I wont ever buy a boat... in fact I can say with almost absolute certainty that I wont ever buy a boat (her grip is too bloody tight on the purse strings for that caper!! :~ ) But I will build one... AND complete it!!... someday... Why? cause me passion has met me desire has met me conviction has met me emotions has met me knowledge has met me beleif in meslef has met... well yer get what I mean eh? :;

And mates where would any of us be without PASSION?... if we didnt have a passion for boats would daddlydaddles be buildin one? nope theres shyteloads of other things daddly could be wastin his time on his money on and his efforts on but does daddlydaddles do that? NOPE! why? cause he has a passion for a boat!! :cool: And Mik? would Mik spend long thankless hours sorting and drawing plans out? makin models an prototypes? Just so other jokers could build them and feel safe doing so? would he spend time yakkin away on forums such as this to impart his knowledge experience and skills? Nope theres so many other things a galah like Mik could be doin instead.. but does he? NOPE! why? cause hes got a PASSION for boats!! :cool:

Aye mateys its in tha blood boyohs in tha blood :2tsup:

apologize for the slight digression here ol chaps lets put it down to an age thing shall we? :B

[Boatmik]

Ah Dingo,

You are right about everything except one.

I don't think it is an age thing at all.... I remember being pretty passionate about boats from the moment I discovered sailing at age 12.

I read every book and magazine in every library - by the time I was 15 I was drawing boats on every visible surface.

By 19 I had decided that I was too old to be drawing boats on every surface and that the next one I designed I would build and I tried to get serious about other more "sensible" things. Study and career.

By 25 I realised I couldn't stop coming back to boats in almost every aspect of my life so decided - "if you can't beat them ..." - so started accumulating theoretical design knowledge but was still afraid to take the step of building something.

The same problems that plague everyone.
What to build
Where to build
Where to get materials
How to use all those unfamiliar tools
What happens if I get into strife

?????????????????????????????????????????????????

Finally I ran into Duck Flat at an obscure little boatshow in Adelaide (which I was travelling through with my girlfriend on the big 'round OZ trip) - we actually just saw a few funny looking sails down by the waterfront when going on a weekend drive.

So started building my first boat there (a L F Herreshoff Rowboat).- scraping money together. Duckflat asked me to be the first full time employee.

Early the next year I drew up my first boat on paper for around 7 years and that ended up being this (http://www.storerboatplans.com/Beth/beth.html) (that's why I use it as my avatar).

And wrote up a plan that sorted out what I saw as all the shortcomings of the plans that existed at the time - I was so off with the tripe that some people were putting out and dismayed about how people found traditional plans hard to follow (not surprising - they were drawn for traditional boatbuilders!!! - not normal people).

There were exceptions though.
One was Oughtred whose plans came out around the same time - for sheer detail and beauty of the boat - the original Acorn.

Bolger - who understands structure and what makes a boat sail or motor better than just about anyone.

Bruce Kirby - who made something old - new again

Derek Kelsall - who understood lightweight structure in timber and clever building methods better than anyone.

Murray Isles - who had the best material lists in the business - easy to read and in commercially available sizes - you'd be amazed how many designers still don't realise that there are two sizes of timber!!! 3/4" and 1 3/4" are the basis for everything.

Francis Herreshoff - for just sheer beauty AND the most sophisticated understanding of structure - perhaps the most dangerously creative boat design mind ever!!!.

And lots of others that contributed in lots of small ways.

So working for the Ducks at that time became an extension of all that reading I did in my teens - As well as a chance to see which of hundreds of designs and plans both worked and were easy enough to follow - which ones worked and which ones left out essential detail.

I did my best learning over a saw bench cutting up wood specified by other designers for boats that were being built by someone else. Some plans you could walk up to the workbench with the plan and start cutting. Others you had to sit at a desk with a calculator for half a day and still not be sure.

The gulf between good plans and the average run is huge - though things have improved a lot over the past 20 years - the standard has been set by the good guys - and I think Oughtred has been largely responsible for that.

In the early 90s I left the Ducks to pursue my own thing.

So no - not age related - but about every other aspect - I agree I agree I agree!!!

Good, eh!

(well the thread is well and truly hijacked now. Just as well I like putt putts)

MIK

[TK1]

I think this is my first official thread hijack...I'm honoured :B

Always happy to start a good discussion...and I think that's where I started this thread anyway...with a passion for something I'd seen and wanted to build...how many no doubt become boatbuilders. I'll trawl the web for hours looking at plans, but some stick in your mind, hence the search for this boat which had the lines, style, etc I wanted.

Like many I see beauty in a (perhaps traditional) wooden workboat or yacht, rather than them big white ugly things at marinas...amazing at the Melb boat show last year that I could have walked past every boat quite quickly...what stood out were the Wooden Boat Shop's Nepean and a couple of other wooden cabin cruisers. Would rather have one of them than a plastic boat twice the size.

So now I'm in the "find some plans" stage...knowing the first boat won't be the last, trying to limit myself to something achieveable that will also be enough to be useful, working out where to build it, etc, etc...so I can empathize with Dingo and others. So many choices! And unfortunately I never had opportunity to sail or anything growing up, so don't know if I want to sail, motor, race, paddle, etc...will just have to build one of each and give them a go! :D Probably limited by the 17' length of my garage too, which cewrtainly cuts down the choices...open to suggestions!

For now the closest I get to boatbuilding is the models (although it's been great practice and I'm not scared of moving up in size a bit) and these discussions. But hopefully I'll see a plan soon or something at the Tassie wooden boat festival that will say "build me, build me"...stay tuned.

Regards,
Darren

[Wild Dingo]

Mik Mik Mik :roll: me wee ol lamb chop :q twas a way of sayin that the wee digression itself is an age thing not the discussion or the desire factor bein an age thing but the digression of the discussion... in that us old pharts have some problems from time to time keeping on track... at times our minds see another factor it thinks is relative so off it goes on a tangent varyin often greatly from the original intent of the threads starter this as you will agree can be confusing to the younger generation that frequents this board of stunning wonderousness :;

Now the ol model shipwright fella we all know is a dodderin ol galah :o nice chappy for sure but well... we all know that he cant be helped beyond a gentle tap on the noggin every now an then to pull him back to the focus at hand... you me ol sock also are inescapably ancient so you also cant help by digress from time to time :doh: ...daddlydaddles well he bein a young buck with a rather single focus well I guess all we can do for him is continue to encourage and stimulate his desire factor so he continues on his merry way since its no bad thing to be totally mad and as we all know writers are one of the maddest bunch there are... as for me ownself... sigh yes its almost that time of year again for me when the cake comes out the pressies are given and that dreadful song is sung by all an sundry a lament I call it a dirge even but time is movin along and as I also head into me dodderage I find my boatlust growing not deminishin and so the desire factor grows expodentially

So no my fine ol mudflap I wasnt saying the desire was an age thing but rather the very fact that we the four above mentioned (and some others who are rather obvious by their very abscence) have an age issue and therefore cannot resist the impulse to digress let our minds wander and so therefore I was meaning that due to our age which some of these young bloods who are perchance reading this thread would go "ah now I got it the old pharts have missed their meds... thats cool good on em" and so understand

If I hadnt said that the said young bloods would have been forever confused... considering they consider us four to be young in our prime and full of brilliance which is an unfortunate circumstance considering the reality eh? :C

So!!! To wit my ol chinaplate I was assisting in the edjoomakashun an enlightenment of the younger generation by issuing the proclomation that "its an age thing" that is the digression not the desire... the desire is a life event and can hit at any age at all... but its an age thing when such luminaries as your own good self young daddlydaddles MSW (buggar typing that long name continuously! :q } and myself deviate and start wandering off on our own tracks during their threads

Gawd Im an helpfull ol sod eh? :2tsup: