What's a Kapex?

[Frank-Jan]

I am going to a building fair in Holland next month, and on the Dutch Festool site they announce that there are going to be demonstrations of the "revolutionairy" Kapex and the Domino. I can't find anything about this mysterious "Kapex", anyone an idea of what it could be?

[Iain]

Can't help but have a look at http://beurzen.jem.nl/sites/bouwbeurs/en/index.asp
for more info.

[zuma]

That link doesn't help... it's information on the old fair of 2005.

The new fair willl be in february 2007. So you have to wait... I espcially searched on german sites (since festool is a german company) but i din't find anything...

[Frank-Jan]

I'm going on wednesday the 7th, if they haven't done a big product launch thing by then, I'll post some pictures here. (Will be from my cellphone though, my sister borrowed and killed my digital camera last week:~ )

Funny thing: the word "Kapex" has been removed from the webpage, it now states "...a long expected Festool novelty..."

links: Dutch Festool thing (http://www.festool.nl/artikel/artikel_weiterleiten.cfm?id=660)
This year's building fair site (http://sites.vnuexhibitions.com/sites/bezoekers_bouwbeurs_nl/en/index.asp)

[zuma]

My Dutch reading is outstanding :D and indeed even the festool site is stating that there will be demonstrations of a long expected festool novelty.... So in a few weeks wel will see if it's worth a big fuss such as the domino :rolleyes: .

[echnidna]

isn't a kapex a condom? :D

[Lignum]

I just hope its not brilliant like the Domino and costs around $1500 because my credit card wont like that:(

[Flowboy]

isn't a kapex a condom? :D

Bob, I think that's a Klapex!

[zuma]

Oké I'm starting to guess. What's a really woodworking tool and not in the catalogue of festool?

I know, I know!

It's a planer/thicknesser bench for the CMS table.

Anyone another guess?

[footix]

Kapex is a sliding mitre saw.

A link ( in german ) :
http://minilien.com/?uyFJVtwH2k (http://minilien.com/?uyFJVtwH2k)

The saw has particular features and is very innovative :
- lightweight ( 21 kg )
- large capacity ( 12'' blade ? )
- advanced limitation of the cutting depth of the blade
- the poles are in front of the saw ( on both sides of the saw head ) resulting in a very compact tool
- the table has the same height as the little systainer
- dual laser beams ( both sides of the blade )

[Carpenter]

Now thats exciting! I've looked at every droppy around & used a fair few, & there's room for improvement!

[Lignum]

Interesting first up post Footix :wink: :D Shame with in a half hour "access forbidden" has popped up:( But lucky i managed a pic :D

[riri]

hi,

I was just looking for a replacement for my old Electra Beckhum...I think i should wait a month or two...don't you think?:rolleyes:

Only problem with this machine will be the tag price i suspect:o . Between 1000 and 1500€ i would fear.

riri

[Harry72]

Gee we should have a comp... guess the price of the new Kapex!

Hmmmmmm I reckon $2000

[Flowboy]

Reckon you're about right Harry, but what about the blades, lasers and other add ons? I'll put a blade at $250-300 and I'll bet its not a standard arbor.

[Lignum]

Gee we should have a comp... guess the price of the new Kapex!

Hmmmmmm I reckon $2000

Good call Harry and it would be so nice if the powers to be here at ubeaut to donate a Kapex to the member who is nearest to the $ Ill go for $1530 (basic model):wink:


And a rundown on the Kapex. (120mm cutting o )

MMC electronics. With variable Drezahlvorwahl, gentle approach, schnellbremse and overload protection makes possible for you MMC electronics careful and material-fair working.

2. Nearly-fixed saw blade changes. The fast and comfortable saw blade change facilitates fast reequipping for you and saves for you thus time and money.

3. Comfortable operation. The protection hood unblocking is integrated in the two-stage switch and just like the safety lock-out device right and left-handed operated.

4. Exhaust. The KAPEX is equipped with a suction connection and an effective splinter catching judge: The splinters are sucked off perfectly, where they develop.

5. Millimeter-exactly adjusted. Owing to the fine adjustment the sawing angle can be stopped most precisely from the front. Thus even complex cuts in the hand turning succeed.

6. Precise slots. With the steplessly adjustable cutting depth delimitation slots it fast and exactly: Simply levers switch on, to groove depth with a trick specify and start...

7. Secure workpiece plant. The high, adjustable high-speed splinter notices permit a precise creation in "original wall situation" and the attachment of own putting on assistance to

8. Accurate double line laser. Whether you on the left of or right at the incipient crack put on: The double lines show you accurately the width of the sawing cut and facilitate for you so the work.

9. Durably and surely. The KAPEX is as production for the hard building placing A employment. Owing to magnesium-Druckguss and its large space occupied with rubber feet it stands reliably and firmly.

10. Well readable scales. All scales are well readably, resistant to friction and their pointers adjustable. The rotation plate attitude to 60° takes place simply and fast by locking levers.

11. More easily transport. By transport lock, excerpt wedging, cable rolling, well arranged grip recesses and only 21.5 kg weight always participates the KAPEX.

12. Angle bevel including. With the angle bevel you transfer interior and/or exterior angles faultlessly to your KAPEX, by simply taking over of the workpiece to the machine.

13. Intelligent table height. The saw plate of the KAPEX is just as high as the SYSTAINER Sys 1, so that when working on the soil long workpieces can be supported comfortably.

14. 120 mm of cutting height. With your singular separating cutting position makes possible the KAPEX even sawing borders high up to 120 mm for you - fast, reliably and precisely.

15. Place saving and precisely. By the innovative double column guidance the saw blade projects position is kept still more precise at the back nothing more and.

16. Snaps wedging. The angle of inclination attitude takes place completely comfortably from the front. Simply solve high-speed wedging, select angles and do not lock - more simply are not...

17. No Stolperfallen. The cable rolling creates order and prevents Stolperfallen in the case of transport. Reply With ratio

18. I want one:C

19. If the above seems a little confussing at times, its because it was done via Bable Fish:D

[Frank-Jan]

.....

18. I want one:C
....


Me too...
Alltough I wasn't planning on replacing my scms yet, (but my ls1013 is starting to annoy me more and more lately:wink: ) this one made my wishlist.( just too bad there are a lot of things on the "need"list I have to save for first). Anyway I'll bring my tapemeasure to see if it will be mountable on my dewalt stand just in case it rises to the top of the list faster than I expect...

[Carpenter]

You do of course realise Frank, that the Kapex will probably have a magnificent "must have" saw stand that will be able to do more than you ever thought possible, & boil the morning tea billy at the same time?

[Lignum]

You do of course realise Frank, that the Kapex will probably have a magnificent "must have" saw stand

You get a free one (check out No13) what a great idea.

[Carpenter]

You get a free one (check out No13) what a great idea.

Well yeah, in a pinch you could work off the ground using systainers as supports, but after living with the Dewalt stand, its worth every penny to have a stand you can whip out of the vehicle & work from a comfortable height. Not to mention the ability to extend or reduce the support wings which, when coupled with the support piece that has a built in flip up stop & it becomes an adjustable stop for repitition cuts. You can also slide the saw to any point on the stand & this comes in handy when the workspace gets tight & your trying to cut longer lengths. I can't wait to see what Festools solutions will be & I reckon the excitement is going to keep me awake at night. I've just about had the magnifying glass over the pic in your link Lignum, & it looks to have all the benefits I think are important. I'm hoping its a dual bevel design, (surely thats a given?) & its not clear what the cut length is. I recon she'll be closer to $2000, & I'm watching the US Domino release because if they decide to give the Yanks a special release price, then I reckon we faithfull Aussie's who have done so much to promote that tool should be given the opportunity to take advantage of a special introductory price when the Kapex is released here.

[Lignum]

What interests me is their is a "Systainer1" that is the same height as the saw base? So what goes into that systainer? It must be small, because this must be a decent size saw if its 12" and will cut a whopping 120mm in thickness. The sad part for me is my Festool dealer told me 4 or 5 months ago that a 12" SCMS will be here early in the first half of the year:2tsup: and i didnt know it was called the Kapex and ive been hanging to find out what that was. The same:(

[Carpenter]

Lignum,
I think what they're saying is that the Systainer 1, which is the size that the battery drills, jigsaw etc come in is the same height as the saw base (by design)so that in a pinch the Sys 1 can be used as a support for the material being cut. Thats how I'm reading the fuzzy translation.

[Frank-Jan]

Somewhere else (some discussion group) I read that festool suggest to use the mft for a sawstand (there was something about the base that will fit in some of the holes or something). But if I ever buy a mft, it will be for the guiderail system and the clamping abilities not to use it as a sawstand. (Good thing those things have a mdf top, that won't be able to deal with a little rain, or else I would have had one already) And I really hate to work with support rollers on uneven ground.

@Lignum About that Bable fish thing, now I know how a lot of manuals by Asian production companies end up the way they are ;)

Anyway, the fair where they'll introduce it starts tomorrow, so maybe the product information site will be up and running then too.

[Carpenter]

Now Frank, you have to appreciate that your in the box seat here, your our front man!:2tsup: We need information mate, so we'll be waiting anxiously for some juicy news. :q

[Flowboy]

"Mine eyes have seen the Glory of the Coming of the Lord."

Until recently, I thought that Kapex was the planet Kevin Spacey came from, I now realise that that was Kipax.

It would be interesting to know what lasers will be mounted on the beast. I'm betting woosy little pulsed diode 635nm Helium Neons emitting red light just powerful enough to read barcodes. Would it be possible to mount something with more Grunt (sorry Grunt)? Such as a couple of Coherent Innova 305 series tunable Argons, putting out 5W at a number of lines, from UV through to green and possibly red and the option of adjustable power. A couple of these and you don't need a blade, you'll get a good clean cut every time, very fast. Tunable wavelength means you won't lose the red in the backround of RG, RB, BG and some of the other darker woods. A lasing tube lifetime of 2000hrs should be suitable for most peoples needs and they can be replaced, but the cost of chillers and three phase power may add a little bit to cost.:U :)

Regards,

Rob

[Frank-Jan]

This thing has got me spending way too much time online. I finally figured the number 12 thingy on the pic out: it's an angle divisor that can be stored in the base, clever. And the number 16 thingy is a lever to unlock so you can change the bevel (first I thought it was a bit flimsy looking carry-handle). The German site says it will give more info the first of March, so I 'll scan whatever stuff I can grab (flyers etc, I'm not that good at theft;) )at their stand on Wednesday and take a few pics.

I just read that some pr*ck from a Dutch DIY TV show will do a demonstration with it, so I doubt I will get to play with it myself :(

[Flowboy]

I'd like to change my guesstimate of the cost of the Kipax.
Based on the cost of their current "toy"; 8" blade, tight angle capability and some other whirlygigs at about A$1,700 then add the laser guidance system:? based on about A$800.00 from Gills Tools and then the extra 4" blade width and accompanying structural/engineering adjustments, I'd say about A$3K. But I'd still buy it.:2tsup:

[Carpenter]

"Mine eyes have seen the Glory of the Coming of the Lord."

Until recently, I thought that Kapex was the planet Kevin Spacey came from, I now realise that that was Kipax.

It would be interesting to know what lasers will be mounted on the beast. I'm betting woosy little pulsed diode 635nm Helium Neons emitting red light just powerful enough to read barcodes. Would it be possible to mount something with more Grunt (sorry Grunt)? Such as a couple of Coherent Innova 305 series tunable Argons, putting out 5W at a number of lines, from UV through to green and possibly red and the option of adjustable power. A couple of these and you don't need a blade, you'll get a good clean cut every time, very fast. Tunable wavelength means you won't lose the red in the backround of RG, RB, BG and some of the other darker woods. A lasing tube lifetime of 2000hrs should be suitable for most peoples needs and they can be replaced, but the cost of chillers and three phase power may add a little bit to cost.:U :)

Regards,

Rob

Geez Rob, maybe you could get a high paying job with a military/industrial weapons manufacturer or something! Actually, a laser cutting SCMS would be fun!

[Flowboy]

So...
the Kipax is due for release 01/03/07 in Espana at least. Had a look at their "translated" site under "sawing with the rounded mountains" (I think that's circular sawing) but it wasn't there. It had its own home where you could view his own very first pictures (really a mouse driven peep show).:)

Regards,

The lemming what changed its course.

[Emiel]

I was just surfing for the Kapex and after reading your posts, I found this site:
http://www.gewema.de/adr.php?id_kunden=85&id=656
I think it's the official release-flyer from Festool and has all the details and price-information.

[Emiel]

I was surfing the web for the Kapex and found what I think is the official release-flyer krom festool on gewema.de.
It has all the details, foto's and price-info!:2tsup:

[Frank-Jan]

I've seen it today, but didn't get as much time to play with it as I'd liked. The main surprise about it is, it doesn't have a 12 Inch blade as many suspected, but just over 10 " (260mm). But it can cut stock upright upto 120mm, the saw is locked a few cm more forward and it sinks a bit further into the slot in the table so it will still cut the entire depth at the fence, but the material is behind the centre of the blade. (this might sound a bit confusing but I hope it's clear to some) The angle divisor looked pretty cool to, it can be used for inside aswell as for outside corners, and thanks to the laser and a white surface with lines on the central leg, the angle is easily transferrable to the saw. In Holland it will cost 999€ excl. sales tax (for comparison: a domino in Holland costs 589€ excl. sales tax).

[Lignum]

Thanks for the info Jan :2tsup: 10" sounds more like from the pics. And the price sounds good as it should be more like $1500 here :D

And Emile, where on that site is the Kapex :? I cant see it.

[Frank-Jan]

This is a scan of the overview of the maximum saw-capacity from the folder (it's also in the link Emiel gave, but it's a bit more visual this way I think)

edit: li. is the Dutch abreviation of Left, re. of Right.

[Lignum]

Not sure what the reason for cutting 60x120 behind the blade when you can flip it over and do a normal cut :? Im i missing something?

[Frank-Jan]

The hold-down clamps where a joy to use (as oposed to the irritating thing on my makita). The stand consists of a basic mft (without the guiderail stuff etc) extension wings that can hold crown molding stops and a rails with flip-stops. (according to the link Emiel gave it comes as a set with the stand for 1600€ ex.)

The link to the Kapex is in Emiel's earlier post, on the previous page.

I made a few pictures with my cellphone, but somehow I've misplaced my bluetooth dongle so I can't post them now. (And I've had a few to many beers at the fair (and after) so I think I call it a night now ;)

[Frank-Jan]

That way you can make a mitre cut instead of a bevel cut, usefull when you're installing trim for example.

[Lignum]

Frank, the link Emile gave i carnt find the Kapex? can you repost the actual page link:)

[Frank-Jan]

Here you go: http://www.gewema.de/adr.php?id_kunden=85&id=656

But it's the same link he gave on page two, it takes me straight to the page with the Kapex folder.

[Flowboy]

Hi Lignum,

The link given by Emile in his first post, where the entire site is underlined and blue (as you'd expect) will take you directly to the overview of the Kipax. It also lists prices. The base unit is approx 950 Euros and the all singing, all dancing is 1600. If this link fails, Google on Festool Kapex and the site should be about 1/3 of the way down the first page after all the Ubeaut stuff.

Regards

Rob

[zuma]

Ooh boy that Kapex thing is sooooo cool:2tsup: The wife isn't going to like this one...

The wife:
"What! another trimmerguide? You already have one for your basis! Hey hasn't that basis thing also a saw? Are you out of you'r...."

Me:
"Yeah but ... 12cm's cutting height, that's nothing compared to my now very pathetic basis setup."

See if I'm getting away with this one....

[Harry72]

So thats $1600~2700 au?

[Flowboy]

Hi Harry,

On a straight A$-Euro, that would be correct on yesterdays exchange. I had a look at Festool Germany, got the prices for three tools in Euro, then converted them using E1.00=A$1.667, then checked the prices on Festool Australia. Here's what I got
1. Domino: E680.68, xchange:A$1135.37, Festool Aus:A$1243.00
2. TS75 Plunge Saw: E646.18, xchange:A$1078.05, Festool Aus:A$1188.00
3. OF2000 Plunge Router: E748.51, xchange: A$1248.76, Festool Aus:A$1190.00.

Obviously ToolTechnics have to cover freight and variations in exchange rate over a set period. There's also the issue of whether Festool collect profit in Europe or in Australia and this will depend on tax rates in each country. But I think you can take the exchange and add about 10% and you'll be close, in general, to the selling price here.
I'd like to see what you will need to make the basic saw work like the whizz bang demos as this will translate into deciding whether you are better to be the all singing, all dancing version, or pay for the add ons as you discover, (usually at the most inconvenient moments) you need them.

Regards,

Rob

[Shedhand]

i went to the site and all i could see was german gobbledegook and no pictures. :? Don't the fools know that 90 percent of the western world speaks bloody english (except the seppos).

[Lignum]

i went to the site and all i could see was german gobbledegook and no pictures. :? Don't the fools know that 90 percent of the western world speaks bloody english (except the seppos).

Dont you learn or understand gobbledegook down their in Tas? If you have questions, dont be shy:wink:

[havenoideaatall]

Thanks for the info Jan :2tsup: 10" sounds more like from the pics. And the price sounds good as it should be more like $1500 here :D

And Emile, where on that site is the Kapex :? I cant see it.

Kapex = Capital Expenditure, surely?. Which for Lignum's Domino is.:U

[Carpenter]

Here's some more to get the juices flowing. They're not the greatest images, but it fills in some more detail.

[Frank-Jan]

Finally got the bluetooth thingy working again:


http://img157.imagevenue.com/loc69/th_37158_Photo_0069_122_69lo.jpg (http://img157.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=37158_Photo_0069_122_69lo.jpg)http://img146.imagevenue.com/loc55/th_37163_Photo_0070_122_55lo.jpg (http://img146.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=37163_Photo_0070_122_55lo.jpg)http://img166.imagevenue.com/loc176/th_37188_Photo_0071_122_176lo.jpg (http://img166.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=37188_Photo_0071_122_176lo.jpg)http://img28.imagevenue.com/loc111/th_37194_Photo_0074_122_111lo.jpg (http://img28.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=37194_Photo_0074_122_111lo.jpg)

[Frank-Jan]

In the third picture you can see the angle divisor on the saw, the white part in the middle has a few black lines on it, so you can allign the saw to the same angle using the laser. The outer legs of the angle divisor have metal things on them you can slide out, so they form an X, this way you can take the angle of outside corners aswell)

The knob at the end of the right slide-arm is for adjusting the bevel. I wanted to take pictures of the stand with the flip-stop, but there were too many people. The first time we passed the stand there were hardly any people, (lunchtime) but I didn't see the demonstration yet so I didn't know what details to photograph. I 'm mailing the demonstration DVD request card tomorrow, when it arrives I'll try to upload it somewhere. (If the videos aren't online on the festool site by then)

[Carpenter]

Well done Frank, thanks for making the effort to share this stuff with the forum.

[riri]

Hi,

I wonder why they keep presenting the Kapex resting on an MFT 800 instead of having as stand of its own? This prevent the Kpex of being at the same height than the MFT therefore using the MFT as support. This also request a special set of leg if you are using the available extension arms that i have with my Basis. Why don't they chop a couple of centimeters off the legs? Mystery or are they getting cheap? Come guys wake up!

riri

[ozwinner]

(Alarm clock)... bbbbbbrrrrrrrriiinnnggggggggggg

Wake up guys.:doh:

Buy a GMC for A$200, motor spins blade, blade cuts timber, how hard is it?

I can just see you all scurrying around now, in your sandals made from recycled old tyres, you know, the ones the poofs wear. :roll:

Al :U

[Groggy]

Trend Micro PC-Cillin really arced up when I clicked on that site. Called it a dangerous website and recommended closing the web browser window.

Claims Spyware and Hacking/Proxy avoidance.

First time Ive seen these warnings in years of using PC-Cillin.

[Lignum]

(Alarm clock)... bbbbbbrrrrrrrriiinnnggggggggggg

Wake up guys.:doh:

Buy a GMC for A$200, motor spins blade, blade cuts timber, how hard is it?

I can just see you all scurrying around now, in your sandals made from recycled old tyres, you know, the ones the poofs wear. :roll:

Al :U


Al, two questions :)

Do you own or more importantly have you ever used a product from Festool?

If you answer "yes" to either of those questions, how then could you post such dribble.

If you answer "no" to either of those, then the Festool Brotherhood would prefere you and the other philastines to stay in the (soon to open by you) GMC Forum thread:rolleyes:

[Carpenter]

Ozwinner,

there's a very tangible buzz you get when using a piece of machinery that performs in accordance with its price tag. It's something the budget conscious will never know. Then, there's the warm fuzzy feeling you get when its so easy to do something that would otherwise be a lot more of a challenge. We have discussed ad nauseum the pro's & cons of price here on the forum, & its horses for courses, but for me I can justify the expense. I can tell you that Festool gear enables me as a finish carpenter to do so much more than people without it, so price is not the issue. I challenge you to engage in an experiment; just once before you kick the bucket, go out & buy something without having a budget. Get the "Festool" tool of your choice (don't scrimp on the vacuum cleaner, its an integral part of the system) & I guarentee it will be your favourite power tool. Then & only then will you understand.

[boban]

Sorry guys, but as the owner of Festool gear, I doubt that a mitre saw can be worth 3 times the LS1214 and deliver more than that $1000 saw.

I've done a lot of finish carpentry and there is no way that you need a tool that is more accurate than the Makita or the equivalent (non premium) brands. Im specifically talking about the SCMS. There is a difference between the GMC and Makita however.

IMHO, I would only buy Festool gear where the tool is unique in design and application. The plunging circular saw and Domino come to mind. Some might argue the C12 drill would fit in here, but I would buy a Panasonic any day of the week before the Festool.

I agree with Al in a way, it is only a saw after all. You could never justify the expense of that saw.

[Lignum]

Ozwinner,

there's a very tangible buzz you get when using a piece of machinery that performs in accordance with its price tag.

Thanks to Rob Flowboy :) i have been very lucky to have been baby sitting his TS75. An eleven hundred dollar saw and six hundred bucks of giude rail.

(Al`s just gone for the oxygen mask:o and is about to type in "What about the Red Eye GMC for $49 and a strip of ply" pmsl... philastines.)

This thing cuts to a line so accurate and with a finish of a LV or LN, and that is no bull. I was blown away when Rob first showed me. Even with a magnifying glass you could not see saw marks. It shears just like a plane blade on the cut

And so quick. At first i was using the clamps on all cuts. Now i dont bother, just sit the guide on the timber. position to the mark (i do it from the back... 186mm to the cut... so i subtract that from my measurment. That way it is a "perfect" cut)

Al could buy 22 GMC`s and 12 sheets of ply for the guides for the same price of the TS75, but what a magical woodworking experience he would be missing out on. But some dont care or bother, their just happy to get the job done anyway that matters. And after years and years of crap to good quality crap tools, im now only interested in quality, and the likes of Festool and Fein are what im enjoying

My Makita SCMS is a little cracker, i love it. But you dont get the precision. This Kapex will give those who own one an increadable level of speed, accuracy and above all like all Festool gear it will be user friendly. I carnt wait :D

[Lignum]

I've done a lot of finish carpentry and there is no way that you need a tool that is more accurate than the Makita or the equivalent .

Makita is tops for carpentry work as you put it, but we are talking precise cabinet work and their is a big difference. My makita has a Freud blade, set up on a good solid bench with dead straight 2mt fence and is close to, but still a long way of perfect in accuracy.

I suppose it comes down to what you make and how you want youre cuts to come out.

So i have no prob if your happy with your Makita, and the quality and accuracy of a GMC saw fits Al`s work style and quality, but the way Festool makes their stuff you can be sure this will be the Rols Royce of the SCMC and it will be huge

[boban]

My Makita SCMS is a little cracker, i love it. But you dont get the precision. This Kapex will give those who own one an increadable level of speed, accuracy and above all like all Festool gear it will be user friendly. I carnt wait :D

That I cannot believe. How is the Festool going to be more accurate than the Makita? Other than the holddown, the saw looks like many others. That said, the size of the cutting table is pathetic.

As good as my Domino is, it works on the very same principle as my biscuit joiner. You might argue the point but it is no more accurate in the way it cuts.

I guess when my cut is exactly 45 degrees the Festool will be better? Just explain how that is going to happen.

If you want an incredible level of speed, accuracy and user 'friendlyness' then might I suggest spending $15,000+ on a panel saw. After all, expense is not an issue. Why bugger about with an inadequate tool like the TS75 in a workshop. On site is a different issue.

Kapex is simply a re-invention of the wheel.

[Carpenter]

Sorry guys, but as the owner of Festool gear, I doubt that a mitre saw can be worth 3 times the LS1214 and deliver more than that $1000 saw.

I've done a lot of finish carpentry and there is no way that you need a tool that is more accurate than the Makita or the equivalent (non premium) brands. Im specifically talking about the SCMS. There is a difference between the GMC and Makita however.

IMHO, I would only buy Festool gear where the tool is unique in design and application. The plunging circular saw and Domino come to mind. Some might argue the C12 drill would fit in here, but I would buy a Panasonic any day of the week before the Festool.

I agree with Al in a way, it is only a saw after all. You could never justify the expense of that saw.

We may be getting ahead of ourselves here as nobody has seen or used one yet. Having said that, I shopped fairly thoughroughly for my SCMS & everything out there has some sort of compromise. Yes the Makita is pretty nice, but after using the boss's one for bout 2 yrs, there were some issues with that saws build quality that arose & turned me off it. All the good SCMS out there have great features, but I'm yet to find one that has them all & no compromises. It is my hope that the Kapex will be that saw.

[Carpenter]

That I cannot believe. How is the Festool going to be more accurate than the Makita? Other than the holddown, the saw looks like many others. That said, the size of the cutting table is pathetic.
Kapex is simply a re-invention of the wheel.

Try cutting 1/4 of a degree off the 90, 22.5 or 45 DEG indexing points with the Makita. What a pain in the ????! Also, the honeycomb casting at the bevelling point allows crap to accumulate in there & it eventually locks up, then the meeting faces start to wear & its all downhill for accuracy from there. The push pull lock is also poorly engineered. As I said, each brand has its weak points, so some of us are just looking for the repeatable accuracy & quality engineering that enables long tool life. Bring on the Festool.

[Lignum]

As good as my Domino is, it works on the very same principle as my biscuit joiner. You might argue the point but it is no more accurate in the way it cuts. .

You trying to tell us your Domino works on the very same principle as your biscuit joiner and is no more accurate :? Why dont you send it back then and get your refund if thats the case. You carpenters crack me up :)


I guess when my cut is exactly 45 degrees the Festool will be better? Just explain how that is going to happen..

Sorry, but a SCMS that cutts a perfect 45 is rare as an arrest free night at the soccer:wink:


If you want an incredible level of speed, accuracy and user 'friendlyness' then might I suggest spending $15,000+ on a panel saw. After all, expense is not an issue. Why bugger about with an inadequate tool like the TS75 in a workshop. On site is a different issue. .

That is surley the "Silly comment of Feburary" So i will gladly hand back the TS75 and go see my bank manager and get a loan for a 15 thou saw... what a stupid thing to say.

And tel me, what dose "inadequate tool like the TS75 in a workshop" mean:?


Kapex is simply a re-invention of the wheel.

Yep, just like going from the old steel hubs and cheap tyres to the latest alloys and super duper Pirellis.

[Clinton1]

Festool - another tool, another few gig of memory space devoted to arguing over the pro's and con's.... without anyone actually owning the new tool.

Good value at 1/2 the price! :D

[Groggy]

I look forward to this one on SMC!

[Carpenter]

Festool - another tool, another few gig of memory space devoted to arguing over the pro's and con's.... without anyone actually owning the new tool.

Good value at 1/2 the price! :D

Does anyone know what will be the price when it is released here? Me thinks not.

[boban]

My initial response would be to suggest a block plane. Beside that, To require a 1/4 of a degree cut in a cabinet would suggest a correction required and an inaccurate cut to begin with.

You need to maintain any machine, the Festool included. My machine is cleaned and operates as required. All the adjustments are there so that it can cut perfectly.

I got the impression that you do fixing carpentry. Do you honestly expect me to believe that you need to cut 1/4 of a degree for such work or even that a block plane is not the appropriate tool for minor adjustments?

When it comes to fix outs, I doubt that there are many more people who are more particular about the finish than I am. I cant imagine that the Festool will make that job any easier.

All this Festool hype is just that. Good tools, marketed very well.

[Lignum]

Festool - another tool, another few gig of memory space devoted to arguing over the pro's and con's.... without anyone actually owning the new tool.



Go back 8 or 9 months and it was the same regarding the Domino. Now look at it. The Domino is slowly changing the way so many workshops opperate and is the pride and joy of all (non carpenters:wink: ) who own it and the envy of somany who crave one.

The Kapex wont have that same effect because its as boban kindly refers its "reinventing the wheel" but their are stacks of furniture makers both pro and amature who arnt as rich as our carpenter cousins and can afford a 15 thousand $ saw and who would love the accuracy and precision of a saw that a standard scms WONT deliver.

[riri]

Hi,

Correction: tools are very good and marketing superior.

[Clinton1]

be fair - Great tools, marketed very well.

[martrix]

detractors........if this doesn't get you onto Festool, then nothing will.:D :wink:

Amy is a legend(read:eye candy, sorry Lig, shes married:C ) and actually knows what shes doing. Even cuts up an 8 x 4 on the TS by herself.

Keep an eye out in her workshop for the mountains of systainers against the wall.

Amy Devers does Freeform (http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/pac_ctnt_988/text/0,2829,DIY_24936_55027,00.html?videoid=63856&c=942). Enjoy.:;

[Carpenter]

My initial response would be to suggest a block plane. Beside that, To require a 1/4 of a degree cut in a cabinet would suggest a correction required and an inaccurate cut to begin with.

You need to maintain any machine, the Festool included. My machine is cleaned and operates as required. All the adjustments are there so that it can cut perfectly.

I got the impression that you do fixing carpentry. Do you honestly expect me to believe that you need to cut 1/4 of a degree for such work or even that a block plane is not the appropriate tool for minor adjustments?

When it comes to fix outs, I doubt that there are many more people who are more particular about the finish than I am. I cant imagine that the Festool will make that job any easier.

All this Festool hype is just that. Good tools, marketed very well.

1/4 Deg adds up on a 250mm skirting butting into a door arch. One of the reasons I chose the DeWalt over the Makita was its "off index" locking & adjustment solution. Pretty well done, shame about the lack of soft start on the 1600w motor with the 300mm blade hanging off it.......buggered up there.

[boban]

You trying to tell us your Domino works on the very same principle as your biscuit joiner and is no more accurate :? Why dont you send it back then and get your refund if thats the case. You carpenters crack me up :)

What gives you the idea that I am a carpenter? Perhaps you think you are the only one that can classified as a cabinetmaker here because you love Festool. :rolleyes:

You are kidding aren't you. Once the fence is set, the biscuit joiner cuts at a consistent depth just like the domino. The Domino works the same but use a different cutter and tenon. That's the difference. You want to prove otherwise, then go for it. I'm using both and see no difference in the accuracy of the cuts or the methods for that matter.

Remember, I'm talking about accuracy of the machine here.


Sorry, but a SCMS that cutts a perfect 45 is rare as an arrest free night at the soccer:wink:

Must be common then, not one arrest in the A-League this season. Can the same be said for your beloved sports?



That is surley the "Silly comment of Feburary" So i will gladly hand back the TS75 and go see my bank manager and get a loan for a 15 thou saw... what a stupid thing to say.

Yet you think nothing of spending 3 grand on a SCMS on a credit card. You are the one talking about efficiency and tools paying for themselves. The panel saw will do everything the TS75 does and more in the workshop.

And tel me, what dose "inadequate tool like the TS75 in a workshop" mean:?

The TS75 is IMHO a great on site saw where a panel saw is clearly an implausible option. In a workshop however,it falls well short of a panel saw in so many ways. Speed (which equals money remember) is top of the list.



Yep, just like going from the old steel hubs and cheap tyres to the latest alloys and super duper Pirellis.

More like Continentals, Michelins, Dunlops and Goodyears

The proof that you have Festool fever is obvious. You haven't even used the tool and yet you are willing to proclaim its undoubted superiority over allcomers.

I doubt that you have used more Festool products than I have (despite me being a lowly carpenter and all). They are good tools but not as infallible as you would have everyone believe.

[Lignum]

I guess when my cut is exactly 45 degrees the Festool will be better? Just explain how that is going to happen.



Can you be 100% possitive your Makita will cut a perfect 22.5 and not 22.53 for a perfect fitting frame on a large octagonal table? I have never used the Kapex but will bet my Domino it will deliver that accuracy

[boban]

Can you be 100% possitive your Makita will cut a perfect 22.5 and not 22.53 for a perfect fitting frame on a large octagonal table? I have never used the Kapex but will bet my Domino it will deliver that accuracy

For Pete's sake Lig, you are talking about working with wood aren't you?

Even if it was cut perfectly, I doubt that in a few days that it will not have moved.

Your Domino has one major fault. The human who holds it. That's where you will get your variances. I'll be the first to admit that I am not infallible and cannot commit to a perfect execution of all cuts. But I'll get it damn close.

One thing you will notice with all high end machines is the ability to adjust it's settings. Those panel saws need to be maintained and adjusted to be accurate. Even with the best tools, the major flaw is invariably the operator. Can't see how your Festool Kapex is going to alleviate that problem.

You get so excited, its almost like you are pitching for free Festool products:q

[Lignum]

What gives you the idea that I am a carpenter? Perhaps you think you are the only one that can classified as a cabinetmaker here because you love Festool. :rolleyes:

A few posts back you described yourself into finish carpentry... Maybe you should have explained it clearer.

And when have i ever said im the only one classified as a cabinetmaker here??? I would love to see the quote



You are kidding aren't you. Once the fence is set, the biscuit joiner cuts at a consistent depth just like the domino. The Domino works the same but use a different cutter and tenon. That's the difference. You want to prove otherwise, then go for it. I'm using both and see no difference in the accuracy of the cuts or the methods for that matter.

Well we obviously use them in an entirly different mannor on different types and styles of product. Chalk and cheese in what i do. Biscuit joiner very limited in what it can do and the accuracy bit is beond compare. Again its probbably the different work we both do.

And if they are so similar for you, why did you get one then? and why not sell it back or put it on ebay and get your money back.



Yet you think nothing of spending 3 grand on a SCMS on a credit card. You are the one talking about efficiency and tools paying for themselves. The panel saw will do everything the TS75 does and more in the workshop.

Look back at the post carefully. I said it was my opinion it will sell for $1500 for the base model NOT $3000


The TS75 is IMHO a great on site saw where a panel saw is clearly an implausible option. In a workshop however,it falls well short of a panel saw in so many ways. Speed (which equals money remember) is top of the list.

Again why would i want a panel saw? Apart from a minimun of 4grand secondhand and a huge footprint that i dont have The Jet + TS75 will do everything and more than a panell saw. Throw into that the Kapex and a panel saw would be a waste of money and space. You forget i make solid furniture NOT melamine or veneered sheet goods.


The proof that you have Festool fever is obvious. You haven't even used the tool and yet you are willing to proclaim its undoubted superiority over allcomers.

Is their anything wrong with having Festool fever? You dont seem to because your few posts in the Festool thread are generaly negative. I dont see why you even bother viewing little own replying


I doubt that you have used more Festool products than I have

That is very debatable. Actualy i doubt it.

[Lignum]

For Pete's sake Lig, you are talking about working with wood aren't you?

Even if it was cut perfectly, I doubt that in a few days that it will not have moved.



You havnt made them then. If you are out by even .01 of a deg when the last of the 8 lengths come together thier will be a sizable gap (inside/outside) depending on what side the deg is out. And that isnt something you can clean up with a plane unless you want a visible nasty. Maybe we are on different wave lengths as to what we want in a tool. So be it:)

[boban]

Gee you must have got one of those Kapex's early then.

Yes, you are in a different league. A true master by all accounts. I'll go and wallow in my mediocraty and leave the expert machining to you.

[Lignum]

Gee you must have got one of those Kapex's early then.

Yes, you are in a different league. A true master by all accounts. I'll go and wallow in my mediocraty and leave the expert machining to you.


What a pathetic thing to say. Why dont you go wallow in your mediocraty and leave this thread to those who are interested in the product

Is it wrong to want to machine up a top and have the join perfect?

[boban]

A few posts back you described yourself into finish carpentry... Maybe you should have explained it clearer.

And when have i ever said im the only one classified as a cabinetmaker here??? I would love to see the quote

I think most people know what I do and the second part of the statement was obviously a backhander.


Well we obviously use them in an entirly different mannor on different types and styles of product. Chalk and cheese in what i do. Biscuit joiner very limited in what it can do and the accuracy bit is beond compare. Again its probbably the different work we both do.And if they are so similar for you, why did you get one then? and why not sell it back or put it on ebay and get your money back.

You obviously dont read well. The Domino is a different tool to the biscuit joiner, that is why I bought it. Now here is the important part - THEY OPERATE ALMOST IDENTICALLY AND BOTH CUT AS ACCURATELY AS ONE ANOTHER. SET THE DEPTH ON EITHER AND BOTH WITH CUT IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE SETTINGS. Now to be clear, the Domino is a better tool with so many more options than the BJ but the accuracy of the cuts is the same.



Look back at the post carefully. I said it was my opinion it will sell for $1500 for the base model NOT $3000

That seems unlikely but we'll see.


Again why would i want a panel saw? Apart from a minimun of 4grand secondhand and a huge footprint that i dont have The Jet + TS75 will do everything and more than a panell saw. Throw into that the Kapex and a panel saw would be a waste of money and space. You forget i make solid furniture NOT melamine or veneered sheet goods.

Get your head out of the sand. Go to AWISA and see how well a 7.5Hp panel saw rips/joins a 120x120m piece of solid timber. None of the tools you mention above will do it with the speed of the panel saw.




Is their anything wrong with having Festool fever? You dont seem to because your few posts in the Festool thread are generaly negative. I dont see why you even bother viewing little own replying

Of course, only over the top, biased drivel need be posted about the virtues of an overpriced tool that you haven't used. IMHO, my statements are generally not driven by emotion or loyalty to a particular brand.



That is very debatable. Actualy i doubt it.

Not even worth debating this point. Sounds like a wank in hindsight, but my point was that I am not talking without experience.

Why do you persist on talking down anyone who dare's question the value of Festool products? How does that add to discussion?

As per usual, you are an aggressive bugger when an opposing opinion is presented.

[boban]

What a pathetic thing to say. Why dont you go wallow in your mediocraty and leave this thread to those who are interested in the product

Is it wrong to want to machine up a top and have the join perfect?


Nothing wrong with wanting perfection, but Festool is obviously not the only option.

Well as to what's pathetic, perhaps you should read what you have written:rolleyes:

[zuma]

Oh boy how quick this thread is becoming saur. Sure Festool is not the only choice, sure Festool is not always the best option, sure Festool is expensive but so are other substances

Face it: in this Festool forum we 're mostly all completely Festool junkies. I know there are more addictions far more worse than this one.

I'm for one far beyond argueing festool is better or not, I simply do not care, I'm a lost (fest)soul :wink:.

So now I go back on drooling on this magnificent Kapex tool and leave you boys to yours, whatever, you're doing.

Frank-Jan thanks for these scans! If digital files could get soggy from drooling, they now are.:2tsup:

[zuma]

Here's some more to get the juices flowing. They're not the greatest images, but it fills in some more detail.

Hey these pages are Dutch, great! Where did you get those?

[Frank-Jan]

Zuma, they're scans of the folder from the fair. A few toolstores that sell festool stuff put it on their website. I think they were requested to remove them, since I cannot find them anymore with google (or else I would have given you the link) (They now have the teaser thingy, which only shows the top half and "more info 1st of March"

[TassieKiwi]

Ta for the pics FJ - certainly more useful than most of the other posts:rolleyes: .

Be calm, gentlemen.

[Carpenter]

Hey these pages are Dutch, great! Where did you get those?

From here! http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=158.25

[Carpenter]

I emailed Festool HO in the fatherland about the Kapex & they've passed it on to HO in Oz. I got this email from Stefan Felix of Festool Australia;


Hi Matt,

Thank you for your enquiry about the KAPEX KS 120 saw.

The current situation of the planning is as follows:

The German version is available in Germany from May and they will be available in AUS in the 2nd half of the year but no date has been confirmed as yet.

Sorry, we can't give you any more accurate details at this stage.

However, don't hesitate to contact us in a few months time for an update.

Thanks and kind regards
Stefan Felix

:2tsup:

[zuma]

Boy Am I happy that I live next doors of the fatherland. I bet the Kapex will be launched the same time as in Germany. The only problem I'll have will be the money and ofcourse the right argument for buying ist. I do have a pulling saw in my basis.... The only real difference is the saw height 120mm to a lousy 50mm.:wink: Even with turning the wood I won't reach 120mm

[Frank-Jan]

I
The current situation of the planning is as follows:

The German version is available in Germany from May

Thanks for the info, straight from the horses mouth:2tsup:
I saw an online store that announced the end of March, guess they changed the schedule,I did ask the guy giving the demonstration, but I was drooling over the machine, and only remembered the price.

I don't mind, I don't like facing the temptation of taking the thing home everytime I go to the hardwarestore (which is usually every other day).

Made a few more scans from the folder, at a bit higher resolution then the previously posted.


http://img7.imagevenue.com/loc211/th_67564_systemoverview_122_211lo.jpg (http://img7.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=67564_systemoverview_122_211lo.jpg)http://img109.imagevenue.com/loc261/th_67569_bladechange_spindlelock_122_261lo.jpg (http://img109.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=67569_bladechange_spindlelock_122_261lo.jpg)http://img154.imagevenue.com/loc247/th_67574_cablestorage_dustcontrol_122_247lo.jpg (http://img154.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=67574_cablestorage_dustcontrol_122_247lo.jpg)http://img128.imagevenue.com/loc186/th_67581_double_laser_122_186lo.jpg (http://img128.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=67581_double_laser_122_186lo.jpg)
http://img130.imagevenue.com/loc271/th_67585_transport_122_271lo.jpg (http://img130.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=67585_transport_122_271lo.jpg)

edit/ Sorry Groggy, don't mean to saddle people up with malware on their system, any suggestions of another free picturehosting? (I chose this by looking at pictures posted by others at a computerhardware forum I visit, because I haven't uploaded pics in a while, and the ones I used to use don't exist anymore) BTW I use nod32 myself, and it doesn't say anything (but I do have the silent blocking thing from Spybot Search and Destroy running)

[Groggy]

edit/ Sorry Groggy, don't mean to saddle people up with malware on their system, any suggestions of another free picturehosting? (I chose this by looking at pictures posted by others at a computerhardware forum I visit, because I haven't uploaded pics in a while, and the ones I used to use don't exist anymore) BTW I use nod32 myself, and it doesn't say anything (but I do have the silent blocking thing from Spybot Search and Destroy running)Not sure why my PC-Cillin kicked up such a fuss, anyone else get warnings from their systems?

[riri]

Hi

Here is a link (http://www.festool.ch/artikel/artikel_weiterleiten.cfm?id=4296)that gives all accesssories available for the Kapex. click on picture to enlarge.:2tsup:

riri

[Honorary Bloke]

:sigh: Like many another Festool product, I predict this one will not see the light of day in the States. :weeping2:

[Shedhand]

:sigh: Like many another Festool product, I predict this one will not see the light of day in the States. :weeping2:That's because it's German and they still got the 5hit5 on you buggers. :D

[Shedhand]

BLOODY ENGLISH FOR CHRIST SAKE. Can someone translate the gobledegook so we can read about the damn thing. There must be someone here who can speak Deutsch.

[riri]

BLOODY ENGLISH FOR CHRIST SAKE. Can someone translate the gobledegook so we can read about the damn thing. There must be someone here who can speak Deutsch.

Euh right, except... this is either in German or in French!!! ( it alternates ). It comes from Festool Switzerland. When it comes into french i can help you. what you want to know? if it's nice:rolleyes: if a nice girl comes with it?

riri

[riri]

:sigh: Like many another Festool product, I predict this one will not see the light of day in the States. :weeping2:

Why would that be i wonder? Surely, you guys must be entitled to quality tools as well:U .

riri

[Shedhand]

Euh right, except... this is either in German or in French!!! ( it alternates ). It comes from Festool Switzerland. When it comes into french i can help you. what you want to know? if it's nice:rolleyes: if a nice girl comes with it?

ririI want to know all about it. Want to read it myself. Can you translate into ENGLISH to most spoken language in the damn UNIVERSE. They even speak a trashy form of ENGLISH in the USA!!! (which is not in our universe admittedly..).
Cheers to our friends in Belgique

[riri]

Hi,

I got it in french and in fact there is very little to translate:

1- Photographs of the tool

2- Accessories available

3- Examples of use

riri

[Honorary Bloke]

Why would that be i wonder? Surely, you guys must be entitled to quality tools as well:U .

riri

As a serious answer, Festool have so far not exported any but hand-held portable power tools to the States. No mobile table saw, no fixed-based mitre saw, and no doubt no Kapex. If you look on the Festool USA site, you will see that the available tools are quite limited. I assume it is a combination of the prediction of low market share, higher freight charges, and the need for additional warehouse space.

Or it may be that they just don't want to. :wink:

[Honorary Bloke]

I want to know all about it. Want to read it myself. Can you translate into ENGLISH to most spoken language in the damn UNIVERSE. They even speak a trashy form of ENGLISH in the USA!!! (which is not in our universe admittedly..).
Cheers to our friends in Belgique

Sheddy, go have a quiet lie down. You're beginning to sound, um, um, well . . . you know. :rolleyes:

[Shedhand]

Sheddy, go have a quiet lie down. You're beginning to sound, um, um, well . . . you know. :rolleyes:No. I don't know mate! :q
My tongue is firmly in cheek. :D