A question of powersaws...

[JupiterCreek]

G'day.. apologies in advance for a long post.

I make solidbody mandos, ukes, tenor guitars, etc.

When I first started with this hobby / venture I bought a cheap GMC single speed scrollsaw for cutting out necks and bodies. When I started making my own bridges, neckplates and control plates in brass I modified the scrollsaw so that I could use Junior Saw blades and use it as a power hacksaw.

As things progressed I bought a GMC 10" tablesaw, mainly used for cross cutting Hoop pine, mahogany and Tassie blackwood body slabs to length, ripping 50mm jarrah for fretboards, cutting 12 degree scarf joints in necks, and ripping Queensland maple for necks. I then bought a little GMC 8" bandsaw for cutting the body and neck profiles and the scrollsaw was relegated to cutting out pickguards and the brasswork. I'm now on my second 8" GMC bandsaw, but the retail blades aren't the best quality and the blades I've been getting made up by Leuco break fairly regularly... they're not really designed to go around a pair of little 8" wheels!

Over Christmas my last bandsaw blade broke, so I went back to using the scrollsaw to cut out some bodies and necks and finally the arm mechanism failed from metal fatigue... it's 3 years old and has served me well so it's been a little winner. So I need a scrollsaw for the pickguards and brasswork, and I'm thinking it's time to get a decent bandsaw.

I checked Bunnings but GMC have no stock of their 10" bandsaw, and Ryobi are in between models of their scrollsaw so that gave me pause to look at what else is out there. Leda Machinery are just around the corner from me so I dropped in there and looked at their Ledacraft SW-1401A 14" bandsaw and SC-1600LVS 16" variable speed scrollsaw. The bandsaw looks nice, and the scrollsaw has pinless blades and they can get a metal cutting blade as well as the woodwork blades. I was a bit hesitant to spend the extra money as my year old Ledacraft oscillating spindle sander has started playing up, but then I discovered that they keep stocks of replacement parts for all their products. A $10 capacitor got it working like new again.

My thinking is that if the 14" bandsaw can be used for cutting my body slabs, cutting out my necks and bodies, cutting the scarf joints, ripping the neck timber, and ripping the fretboards, and the scrollsaw can be used for the pickguards, brasswork and other little stuff, then I can sell off the little GMC bandsaw and the GMC tablesaw. The bandsaw will take up less space than the tablesaw anyway.

So... fellow instrument makers... is my thinking on the right track? Can a 14" bandsaw become a universal sawing machine or do I still need the tablesaw?

[Jackspira]

Yes!! Go the bandsaw, sell the tablesaw!
Jack

[Malibu]

Sorry Jack, I've got to disagree with you there... :)

Buy the bandsaw and keep the table saw!
It's nice to be able to slap on a piece of wood and rip it down as you please. It's a convenience thing :)
Besides, you already have the table saw! Unless you're really strapped for cash or space, why not hang on to it?

[kiwigeo]

There's a few things a table saw can do that a band saw can't. I've got a bandsaw but next purchase will be a decent table saw.

The bandsaw is a 14" Carbatec....okay for the money but eventually I'll be getting a better quality 16" bandie.

[JupiterCreek]

I realised today that I'll still need the tablesaw to cut my body slabs. The bandsaw only has a slightly less than 14" throat and some blanks are up to 20" long.

[old_picker]

A good bandsaw will do pretty much everything you want. Get as big as you can but be carefull which machine you buy. Minimum is a 14" with a 300mm riser and 1hp+. The Jet deluxe 14 is a pearler [i have one]. It will resaw 10" 12" hardwood albeit quite slowly but with a decent blade does the job. A big motor is way better than the standard 3/4 hp in most BS The Jet has a 1.25HP and it could be bigger. There are some real dogs out there and some not cheap [eg electra beckum] Get something with iron frame and cast iron wheels and a QUALITY fence.

As far as your GMC table saw goes it will become redundant because of its inherent inacuracies once you get a decent bandsaw. I bought a GMC TS and took it straight back. I think what kiwigeo is looking at for table saw will be something a little more up market than GMC or Ryobi.I bought a porter cable benchtop 10 TS which is 2hp 10" with a decent fence and a good flat table. After I bought it I wished I hadda got a decent bandsaw first and I would never have spent close to $!,000 on a table saw. In hindsight however I have come to appreciate the power and accuracy of it but the bandsaw gets way more use.

To answer your question, a bandsaw will do pretty much everything you have outlined from cutting pickguards [with a small blade] to resawing [ripping down] large bits [wide blade few teeth] and the other two saws will sit there gathering dust although a good scroll saw would be great for inlay work. The bandsaw will never cut fine like an 80 tooth blade in a powerfull table saw though.

Ask on the bandsaw forum or search on purchasing band saws. There is dozens of posts on that subject
Lets know what you buy

[JupiterCreek]

Hi rayc

I'm making solidbodies, not acoustics, so the resaw capability isn't an issue for me. The Ledacraft is as expensive as I'm prepared to go. If Bunnings had had stock of the Rybobi scrollsaw and the 10" GMC bandsaw it would have been done and dusted, but they didn't so I thought I'd try Leda. I was impressed by the fact that Leda actually keep stocks of spares for their products. I've been told MIK are a good company but first impressions are lasting impressions so I didn't bother to try them. The only other supplier I thought of was Woodfast Machinery. We used to buy cheap Indian cast products from them when I was working in engineers' supply.

To be totally honest the conversation with Leda started with "Tell me why I should buy one of your bandsaws and not a GMC... the spindle sander I bought from you is playing up so why spend $600 on a bandsaw when I can buy a smaller one for $200 from GMC?" When he went to the spares pricelist and showed me the parts they hold in stock to rebuild any of their machines I backed right down! :B

The scrollsaw will be used for pickguards and cutting brass extrusions, I'm not into inlays, and the little bandsaw will probably just gather dust, :C

I did a search and had a good read on the bandsaw forum, but the emphasis seemed to be on bandsaws in general woodwork. I was looking for input from people making instruments as we have similar needs. I must admit since this sub-forum was created I visit it daily, but only look at the timber and machinery forums once a week or so.

[old_picker]

Yeah I also build solids. I use the resaw for cutting slices off burls and blocks of curly for droptops or thinline tops. I posed a similar question a year ago on the rec.musicmakers.builders news group. these guys all build instruments. here is some of the replies...Like one poster says "my tablesaw is just a table with stuff
piled on it" That describes my TS most of the time....

Band saw or table saw??? [the post title]

I'm not a pro, just a hobbyist who builds a few solid bodies. I'd miss the
bandsaw a lot more than the table saw... the main thing I did with the table
saw was clean up an edge to glue a blank. My combo pillar/belt sander is the
one thing I really couldn't do without.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not a luthier, but I have been a woodworker for about 30 years -- please take my
comments as you see fit.

A bandsaw is probably the more versatile of the two saws you're considering
(I own two 14" band saws, one with a riser block and one without), but in
your situation I really think I'd recommend a good table saw. You already
have the ability to saw freeform shapes using your jigsaw, which is also a
better solution for enclosed cuts such as pickup holes in templates. A
bandsaw is useful for resawing veneers, but it does take some skill and I
expect if that was your main need right now, your decision would have been
clear without asking. Some thoughts about tablesaws:

- They were born to rip, and with a good blade they can leave a cut that is
ready to be glued as-is. Caveat: Get a good blade.
- They can crosscut small boards easily and longer pieces with some homemade
jigging, e.g. a crosscut sled.
- Many people don't think of tablesaws for resawing, but you can do it. Take
shallow cuts, progressively raise the blade after each pass until it's as
high as it will go, then start over on the board's opposite edge. You can
resaw wider boards if you're willing to follow up with a handsaw. Caveat:
Make sure your board is straight and your edges are square to start with,
use hold-downs to keep the board tight against the fence, take shallow cuts,
and be careful.
- Tablesaws are really great for working with sheet materials, which you use
for making jigs and fixtures, shop furniture, and plenty of other things.
Caveat: Sheet materials can be unwieldy, so get or make proper extension
tables and/or work supports.
- They are louder than bandsaws.
- They can be more dangerous than bandsaws.

Good luck with your decision.
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There is one thing that a bandsaw does that a tablesaw cannot do: cut
curves. If you can live w/o that (I can't) you can start choosing
between them.

Make that two things: a band saw can resaw a lot more safely and
efficiently than a table saw.

Make that three things: a band saw can be used for rough carving--a
technique that looks more dangerous than it is.

Probably only important to me, but my band saw is a lot more quiet than
my table saw.

When I was building mostly furniture, I needed the table saw. Now that
I do mostly luthery work, my tablesaw is just a table with stuff
piled on it. Last time I turned it on was in November. The bandsaw
gets used pretty much every night; it does most of the straight rip
cuts, and cross cuts are done by hand with my ryoba or my nokigiri hand
saw (or the band saw).
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Band saw. You can crosscut long things with the skilsaw you own, you can
cut dadoes and grooves with the router you own, and everything else the
tablesaw can do the bandsaw can also do, while the bandsaw can do many
things the tablesaw cannot.

The bandsaw is also quieter (I tend towards assuming that anyone who
hangs out here actually likes to hear, and perhaps even play a bit of
music while working in the shop, too) and generally safer than the
tablesaw - both will cut you (anything that cuts wood cuts flesh) but
the bandsaw pulls things down onto the table, while the tablesaw tries
to throw things back at the operator.
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A good bandsaw is worth its' weight in gold in a luthiery shop. I use mine
virtually every day, much more than the tablesaw. I have 3; a 15" General
for all 'round shop work, strung with a 3/8" blade as a rule, an 18"
General International (offshore job) dedicated to resawing tops and backs,
strung with a 1" 3 t.p.i. blade, and a portable bandsaw mill which eats
trees and produces lumber. Used mostly for squaring up raw billets prior to
resawing them.

The little bench-top bandsaws are toys, and as a rule should be avoided.
They have very limited capacity, usually trash guides, and they are tough
to set up to do any real work. They're fine for use as a light cut-off saw,
that sort of thing, but really they're more trouble than they are worth.

The thing with really good tools is you can use them for a full career,
then sell 'em for more than they cost you 30 years before. The toys are
use-and-toss. Pretty much the industry standard for a small shop saw is
the Rockwell/Delta/Beaver 14". That model has been around for decades and
is the most widely copied bandsaw ever built. The majority of modern
available offshore stuff is cloned from them. They have the provision for
adding a 6" riser block to permit some light resawing, and once they are so
set up they are man-enough for that job as long as you don't over-use them
in that capacity.
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Definitely a bandsaw. I use mine all the time. My table saw went back
in its box about 3 years ago and has never come out since, and I don't
miss it at all.
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Another vote for the bandsaw, although it's hard to imagine not having both.

I have a Laguna LT-16 that's served me very well, although I could see
getting by easily using a Jet 14" with a riser block.
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From here the remaining posts went towards the safety aspects of the TS vs BS and some discussion on routers

Hopefully this will help inform others asking this question as it looks as though you have pretty much made up your mind on what to get

The best fun is buying new tools aye??
Good luck :)

[JupiterCreek]

There are some good points there. I think if I reorganise my workshop (and maybe hire a mini-skip to get rid of a heap of junk) I can tuck the tablesaw into a corner and just bring it out for cross cutting the slabs. If I had a hand held circular saw I wouldn't need the tablesaw, but even a cheap saw would cost me $75, and realistically all I'll get for the 10" GMC is less than $100, so I may as well hang on to it.