Dovetail jigs - help needed

[Big Shed]

I am about to embark on a new project, a CD cabinet with about 30 drawers, mad from mainly blackwood (fronts anyway).

My dilemma is that I have never made blind dove tail front drawers, and the first order of business is the acquisition of a dovetail jig. Having done extensive searching on this forum there appears support for quite a few dovetail jigs.

So far I have boiled it down to these choices:

1 Cheap Chaiwanese half blind dovetail jig, Carbatec and numerous others
Will they do a workmanlike job? Certainly the cheapest option, but working with relatively expensive timber here and don't want to stuff it up because of cheap tools (I can do that with or without cheap tools!:doh:)

2 Leigh D1600, seems very nice, like adjustable spacings etc, not sure about bringing the router (Triton TRA001) to the job. Are Leigh D1600 owners using them for making drawers with the Triton TRA001, any comments?

3 Incra jig for the router table, this would involve building a new router table, which I don't mind doing. Have a Triton RTA300 at present and have never been a fan.

Problem with Incra is the confusing array of choices

Original 12"

Ultra Lite 12"

Ultra 16 or 24"

LS 17 or 25"

Is the Original a proposition or is it too flimsy? Anybody using this and are you satisfied?

Are the people that bought the other Incra jigs satisfied with their results and have they used them for the making drawers?

I would eventually also want to use any jig I buy for box making and would like to do box/finger joints as well as dovetails.

Any positive and indeed negative feedback on the above jigs would be appreciated.

So far am leaning towards the Incra UltraLite, but not sure about the 12".


Fred

[Flowboy]

Hi Big Shed,

SOunds like you've pretty much made up your mind, but one thing which may play a fairly important part (at least with the Leigh), is the availability of Guide bushes and guide bush adaptors for the Triton. Check that they are off the shelf before you decide.

Regards,

Rob

[Big Shed]

No certainly haven't made up my mind! Are you saying that availability of these is problematical?

Was in Carbatec-Melb this morning and looking at the Leigh, looks interesting. They are having a demo by Master Craftsmand Carl Lutz, on Sat Feb 3 9-11. Will certainly go to that demo, even though it is a 300k round trip, but I guess that is the price you pay for living in the country.
Have been having a good look at Incra reviews on the web, also some videos, what comes across most is that it seems fiddly to use.
Would any Incra owner care to comment on that?
There seem to be a few forum members with Incra jigs, as well as some with Leigh.
There was a post in the last day or so of some dovetails cut with the Leigh and they looked very impressive indeed.

[Stuart]

Wish I had a Leigh to be able to give a comparison.

I have an Incra LS17". Wish I had more time to master it, but if I had an opportunity to make the choice again, I'd choose the same one.

[Lignum]

They are having a demo by Master Craftsmand Carl Lutz, on Sat Feb 3 9-11.

Carl Lutz was a famous protector of the Jews in WW2

[ciscokid]

Leigh Industries has a very informative website and somewhere on it is a large chart showing many routers and what appropriate guide bush to use with each one. If you still have questions after looking at that, call the number. I did, and the young lady who answered was very helpful and knowledgable. In my case, I was purchasing the D4 (and I LOVE it), but I only had a twenty year old Craftsman router and there was no guide bush for it. So I went and bought a Porter Cable 690 for the Leigh.

Just for the record - I have made both through and half-blind dovetails with the Leigh jig. Both turn out very good and the variable finger spacing really makes the joints look custom. Of the two dovetails, the half-blind are by far the easiest. Set the bit depth once, using scrap wood that is planed to the same thickness as the wood you will be using, and you can turn out perfectly fitting dovetails for weeks changing only the finger spacing if needed or desired. Change your stock thickness, however, and you have to set the bit depth again.

I recommend the Leigh product highly. Best of luck to you.

P.S. The new issue of Wood magazine (#175) did a test of dovetail jigs under $350 and the Leigh D1600 won "Top Tool" honors. They remark that while it took 27 minutes to assemble the tool out of the box, it only took 9 minutes to turn out a tight joint (subsequent joints go much faster). They also mention that it had the best manual in the field. I can attest to that. Very good instruction manual with easy to follow pictures.

[Flowboy]

Hi Fred,
I have looked up the last Leigh "broshoore" I received at the WWW show.
They make 5/8 and 7/16 guide bushes for the TRC001 and you need to specify what router you will be using to get the correct screws. Since you, like me, have a TRA001 in your bench, the Incra may be they go, short of buying another router. Guess it depends on whether you want to hand rout or table rout.
I have a Leigh D4R with a Finger joint template and I am overall, very pleased with it. There is a learning curve, but, like the Incra, its a complex and very flexible system. Unlike Ciskokid, I have found through dovetails to be as easy as half blind and the finger jointer is exquisite. One other thing I would say is that I use a Festool OF2000 for the jig and on some timbers I am right down to mark #1 on the router speed settings to avoid tearout. I fear the RTA001 could be overkill for this situation and that the Incra may be a better system for you situation.:)

Regards,

Rob

[Flowboy]

I forgot to mention, Carl Lutz works at Carbatec part time. You'd know him if you saw him. White hair and beard. Probably old enough to have played a part in WW2. He just needs the pointed cap and cloak with the moon and stars on it and possibly a rather long turning chisel and you've got yourself Gandalf the White.:D Nice guy though and very knowledgable.

Regards,

Rob

[Just George]

I have the Leigh D1600 and have just got myself a Triton MOF001 to use with it. It is lighter than the TRA001. It has the required template guide in the kit that's available. If you already have the TRA001, it would still do a great job with the Leigh as well...

[Big Shed]

Well, am awaiting the arrival of brochures and DVDs for both the Leigh and the Incra.

Yesterday received a cattledog from Timbecon and they are selling the Incra Ultra 24 for a very good price indeed.

Will wait to see the Leigh in action at Carbatec on Feb 3, have received an invititation for a personal demo from another forum member to demonstrate the Leigh.

Will need to see the Incra in action as well before making up my mind.

Have done a lot of reading on the internet, boy is there some information out there.
The forum has been very useful in finding reviews etc.

Decisions, decisions.....................

Meantime am designing the CD cabinet, which will look abit like a sofa table and be positioned behind one of the sofas in the family room, those 10 blackwood slabs keep staring me in the face:oo:

[silentC]

I've got an Incra. For anything bigger than a few inches in width, the Incra is not really suited. You have to clamp the boards to a sliding jig which rides the fence. For wide boards the whole thing can be a little bit unstable and it's easy to tip the board one way or the other. For the same reason, long boards aren't really suited to it either.

With a jig like the Leigh, this isn't a problem because the jig is clamped to the board and you move the router. A much more stable and reliable arrangment.

For boxes and small drawers etc, the Incra is great. It's also a precision router table fence, which the Leigh and similar jigs are not. However I think the Leigh is your best bet for an all round dovetailing jig.

[Tex B]

I used an inexpensive Porter Cable for years to make half blind. As long as the spacing was OK for the drawer, it worked fine and easy to use.

Have since bought the Leigh, and love it. It is much more versatile, can set any spacing and any width, so you can set the dovetails to match the piece instead of the other way around. No problem with using the router handheld, as the jig provides good support. Have used a Festool OF1010 and a monster old Ryobi 3.5hp, and have no trouble with using either hand held on that jig.

The Leigh is not difficult, comes with a great manual, and a DVD as well.

Did have to wait a month for one of the guide bushings that wasn't in the country at the time.

Tex

[Big Shed]

I've got an Incra. For anything bigger than a few inches in width, the Incra is not really suited. You have to clamp the boards to a sliding jig which rides the fence. For wide boards the whole thing can be a little bit unstable and it's easy to tip the board one way or the other. For the same reason, long boards aren't really suited to it either.

With a jig like the Leigh, this isn't a problem because the jig is clamped to the board and you move the router. A much more stable and reliable arrangment.

For boxes and small drawers etc, the Incra is great. It's also a precision router table fence, which the Leigh and similar jigs are not. However I think the Leigh is your best bet for an all round dovetailing jig.

That thought had occurred to me looking at the small right angle bit. In your estimation, seeing you have an Incra jig, what would you say is the maximum width and length that can be done with reasonable accuracy on the Incra?

[silentC]

Well, I haven't really used it for anything wider than about 200m and probably about 600mm long.

The templates will handle up to about 400mm in width and there's no length limit from that point of view. The length limit comes in when you are trying to hold it steady whilst sliding it back an forth over the router bit, once for every tail.

The sliding part of the fence is 170mm wide (mine is an Ultra 24) so you can probably go near double that before it gets unweildy.

I guess what I am saying is that it's not impossible to do wide boards on it, it's just not the best method available. If you plan to doa lot of boxes and small drawers, plus you want the ultra accurate router fence, then it's the way to go. On the other hand if you plan on doing chests and cabinets and you don't need the fence, then the Leigh is a better bet.

For what it's worth, I hardly ever use it as a fence. I use the fence on my tablesaw with the router mostly. I also rarely use it to cut dovetails, as I have other methods I prefer for that. What I do use it for is box joints. Not sure if the Leigh will do them?

[NewLou]

Gidday:)

If I were to buy a dedicated Dovetailing Jig it would also be the Leigh. This Jig has been considered the yardstick for making dovies over the past decade.

Consistantly reviewed at the top of its class n holds the brass to deliver consistant repeatable high quality results

........................Well worth investing coin in!

REgards Lou:)

[Hoppoz]

I'm looking at the Incra LS17 or 25, not sure yet which one?

Interesting to read the comparisons, is there anyone in the Sydney area that has an Incra System?

Hoppoz

[FXST01]

Bigshed,


Which jig did you end up getting?


cheers

[Big Shed]

[quote=FXST01;490947]Bigshed,


Which jig did you end up getting?


cheers[/quote

Incra LS 17"

Used it for the first time in anger today, almost finished the new router table for it.

First job I used it for is making the trays for the templates, certainly does precise work, impressed so far.

See here for the templates:

http://www.woodshopdemos.com/sstat-22.htm

Yankee MDF must be stronger than the Oz MDF, he is using the 5/8 template, but I found I had to go to 11/16 as the ribs between the templates kept breaking off. I also didn't go as deep as he did, he used a depth of cut of 1/4" (6.35mm), I found that 4mm was ample. Just personal preference I guess.

So far have had a lot of fun making this router table and nutting out all the details, the web certainly came in handy for all this.

Fred