TassieKiwi 25th January 2007, 10:15 AM To those who:
have 75 and are alredy brainwashed as to its Festabulousness
have recently upgraded from a crappy TS to a 'real' solid TS of whatever make
like me really need to upgrade, and don't know which way to goSituation: I have a Jet 14" w riser kit, 6" jointer, 13" thicknesser, and 1950's Tanner 8" tilt/rise-and-fall tablesaw, with a table area a bit bigger than a large teatowel. Accuracy optional.
I've set my heart on a big, quiet, flat, powerful TS that will give me smooth accurate repeatable cuts, for the next 20 yrs or so.
Request: I would like opinions from those above (anyone really) on what a shop would be like without a bigass saw. Note that I don't have a SCMS, and probably won't buy one. Well, maybe. The $399 GMC was being dumped a while ago for $99 - I missed out.
Waddyarekin?
Lignum 25th January 2007, 09:47 PM A long hard think.... You need both.
At the end of the day you realy carnt have a workshop and no Table saw. But having said that and with what you already have (and you realy NEED the new Festool SCMS) i would get the TS75 first and then save for the Table saw.
I used it today squaring up two leaves of an extension table (Thanks Flowboy - pic below:D ) and it is just a superb unit.
The weird part is when you are cutting you think you have mucked up the guide placement because you carnt hear or feel the timber being cut:? :? Very, very strange. Thats how good this is.
Being the first time i have used it, i had trouble getting the cut millimeter perfect, but that will come naturaly when you own and use it everyday.
On that note, i just happend to stumble apon Jessica before :B using the TS75 and she was doing a great trick. Mark where you want to cut (as in placing the guide) and using a heavy duty razor blade (the ones with the back support on the top) and place it on the mark and give it a firm tap with a hammer so it digs in. Then just place the guide up againsed that. Brilliant. She`s a marvel:wink:
Clinton1 25th January 2007, 10:43 PM I'm asking the same question.... so Lignum, if you could explain why you think you also need the tablesaw, I'd appreciate it.
thanks
Lignum 25th January 2007, 10:53 PM Sarge:wink: All this Festool stuff is brilliant, but nothing beats going to the Table saw moving the fence and ripping quick and accurate boards, cross cutting over and over quick and clean, fast raised panells, trenches, rebates and grooves blah blah blah.
The TS75 is a (brilliant) poor mans panel saw. I want one and gunna get one:D But would never go with out a Table saw. Madness:wink:
nt900 26th January 2007, 10:24 AM I would have to agree with Lignum. The combination of Festool TS55 or 75 plunge cut saw and guide rail (especially with the Multifunction Table MFT1080) is great. I much prefer cutting panels that way and get a better result than on an average size table saw. But to be able to walk up and rip a small piece of timber on an already set-up table saw is still the way to go.
For abound five years I have been using the Festool Precisio CS70 table saw with all the extensions and large sliding table. As well as ripping, I used to do all my panel cutting on this as well. Worked just fine and provided excellent splinter/chip free edges. But now I primarily use the MFT and TS55 for panels and ripping in-situ, and mostly go to the CMS (with another TS55 installed) for ripping and cross cutting small panels. Having the MFT/rail/TS55 combination means I don't need the larger table saw much anymore.
What I do know is it takes a bit more workshop area to swing a full sheet around the larger table saw with sliding table than it does doing the same sheet breakdown using the MFT and TS55. But I still would have the CMS (or other small table saw) ready for ripping close at hand.
One thing to note, the splinterguards built into the TS55/75 and guide rails really help maintain a clean chip/splinter free edge to melamine/ply and veneer pieces. On a conventional table saw (not the Festool Precisio models which do have splinterguards as well) you have to install a zero-clearance insert if you can to try and get the same splinter free results.
Now I will have to try the razorblade technique as demonstrated by Jessica and see how that goes for increasing sub-millimetre accuracy.
thetassiebfg 26th January 2007, 10:32 AM I agree both
The TS75 is absolutely brilliant but after buying one to put my trusty (but out of square) triton out of a lot of job, I have found making small cuts, repeadative cuts or cuts on narrow stock are done much easier on a Table Saw
time to go and get new bits for the triton to make work nicely
(though might just start using blades thanks Jessica via lignum)
EDIT: Don't you hate it when someone replies saying similar stuff while you are slowly typing away then when you press send there it is for all the world to see.. I'll have to take up politics with all this rubber stamping
zuma 26th January 2007, 08:43 PM In short you need both for some serious furniture production :D .
Indeed the guide rail system and a MFT is great for resizing large sheets in panels that can be handled easier. Or making panels which are to large for your tablesaw with extensions. I find working on a tablesaw great until the sheet size is larger than the supporting table.
The tablesaw beats the guide rail system easy when you're making small and or thin pieces of woord. And I even havn't spoken yet on making series.....
It's so easy setting the fence and then ripping a serie of woodpieces of exact the same size.:doh:
I use the basis system with an ATF 55, two routers and jigsaw. And what is really whopping with this kind of system is that you only need a limited workspace. And I'm thinking to upgrade my modular tablesaw with either an AP85 or the TS75 (Do I really need the 8 cm heigth or is 7 cm enough?). Sawtable height is especially important for making solid legs.
kind regards,
Sander
journeyman Mick 26th January 2007, 11:10 PM I'm perfectly happy with my 15 year old tablesaw. (Casolin Astra, 6Hp main, 1 hp scriber, 3M long sliding table, 1.5M rip, 3.0M crosscut, 125mm depth of cut) :D
Mick
nt900 27th January 2007, 09:25 AM That's a big machine for a journeyman Mick :)
journeyman Mick 27th January 2007, 11:06 PM Anthony,
well I don't actually journey very much any more.:rolleyes: And no, the saw doesn't come with me when I do. I was thinking of hitting the road sometime in the future to travel and work, but can't imagine how I'll move around with all the gear I use now (and I'm definitely not going back to standing trusses). Might have to look at some of the Festo gear.
Mick
Ted 30th January 2007, 11:43 AM TassieKiwi
At one time I had a little INCA table saw with an 8" blade in it and I did a lot of accurate work with it, despite its primative table tilt arrangement and small size. I had to rough cut sheet goods first with a portable saw but my little INCA (with some extension tables) did a fair job on final trimming most components that I was cutting. For unwieldy sizes I used a 3hp router and straight edge. I did most of my ripping on solid timber with a small bandsaw.
I now own a CASSADEI 12" table saw with sliding table and scribing blade. It's much more convenient and it makes cutting multiples exactly the same a breeze. However mine is too small to handle a full sheet and I still use a TS55 to break sheets down and to make angled cuts. There is no significant difference in the quality of the cut edge that I get with both tools - both are chip free. Most of my ripping is still done on a bandsaw albeit I change blades and use the bench saw if I'm making final dimensional cuts.
So what should you do? It depends on your budget, whether or not time is of the essence, the type of work you aim to do and available space. If your Tanner is not very accurate and has minimal table size, some tuning (including a quality blade, zero clearance throat plate and good fence) and table extensions would extend its usefulness. Buying a TS55 or TS75 is a relatively inexpensive option for expanding your workshop's capability and will remain so irrespective of what else you decide to purchase.
Ted
Lignum 30th January 2007, 12:25 PM I just wish Flowboy hadnt of brought his around for me to have a go at:~ Now im having withdrawles and i realy, realy need it today (and yesterday and the day before and....). Ill have to give Anthony a ring soon as i get some spare cash (maybe Mum will lend it to me:rolleyes: )
And check out this bloke Per Swenson on SMC he has a 9mt rail:oo:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=50695&highlight=domino
TassieKiwi 30th January 2007, 02:08 PM Jeez Lig, is that a shop or a hangar? It was Rob's suggestion that you were thinking of putting the Jet to pasture that really got me thinking - just as well that I asked the question.
Thanks for the replies team. Ted - I was perhaps a bit harsh on the Tanner, as I have managed to make a dining table & pews, cedar doors, kids beds, KS bed, and without it the last 2 house reno's wouldn't have happened. Once set up it will give repeatable cuts, but its size and power are limiting, and my is it noisy.
The next projects are side tables, shoe tidy shelf, bookcases and a Scott Maloof rocker.:rolleyes: folloed by cabinet work. I reckon that the big TS would be used the most - I can break panels down with my Makita CS & straightedge, but as I'm working mostly in solid timber this is nt surrently an issue.
nt900 30th January 2007, 02:20 PM Warning - not a productive comment.
But - whaaaooo! Gives you guide rail envy eh! :oo:
RossM 17th May 2007, 02:16 AM I know this thread has been inactive for a while, but thought I'd post an update as I've been looking at the same question.
I came accross this site http://woodnsoul.blogspot.com from Clint Holeman. Check out the quality of the work this guy does - commercial operation of fine furniture production. I emailed Clint about his workshop setup & got this reply:
I have no table saw, it isn't even on a wish list. I use the Festool system just about exclusively. I'm not sure, with an MFT, one of the TS saws and guide rail why one would want a TS. ....
(other stuff deleted)
... Works for me. I'm just glad my competitors don't use them!!
booboo 18th May 2007, 01:05 AM Yep it would appear that there are plenty of craftsman using the TS55/75, MFT combination and swear by it.
Basically the best way to play it is to buy a TS55/TS75 plus MFT which you will always use and then decide after using these tools if you still want a dedicated TS.
Tooljunkieyank 18th May 2007, 06:40 AM I have said before that all of my Festool tools just make my shop better. No tool replaces another unless I have an old tool that was wore out and needed replacement.
I have both TS75/55 and use the 55 on site when a smaller saw is needed in a clients house and I use the 75 to rip down full sheets in my small shop.
My 12" 1993 Laguna TS is and always will be the workhorse in my shop. Doing repeat cuts the TS is the way to go for me with a crosscut sled. I don't own a MFT but my outfeed table is my assembly area and work table, 7'x8'.
I still use the same 12" Delta RAS I have had since 1989 and I use it daily as well...
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