Vice Location On Workbench

[Manix77]

G'Day

I'm doing up plans to build a workbench and drawing inspiration for workbenches all round the place. One thing about most of the benches I see puzzles me! They all have a vice on the left front corner of the bench. Now when I go through the processes I'd use on a bench I keep coming up with the front right corner as the best location. If I was going to cut something or do some fine work with a chisel my inclination would be to have the work clamped to the right edge of my bench so my saw or chisel is over the edge of the bench (I'm right handed).

I can see the advantage of the left front location for planing but not much else. I can also see that if you had the front vice and an end vice that this may give more flexibility and cater for both requirements but, at least in the short term, I'll only have one vice.

Am I missing something?

My second question is about the utility of a tail vice, I've studied this lots (but obviously not enough) and I can't see what I'd do with a tail vice. Is this a dark side specific thing or is there something about a tail vice that makes it invaluable?

I've searched the forum for answers but nothing jumps out, any comments or guidance would be apppreciated, I want to get this bench right!

regards

Manix

[lpg_falcon]

Manix,

My tail vise I have found very handy as it has Pegs in it that can be raised above the bench height.
The bench also has these Pegs.
I am then able to grip, using the vice, Large flat sheets onto the bench.
This I might do for the purpose of sanding or planing a face.
I might do this when flattening a Table top or the like.

Hope this helps some.

lpg_falcon.

[craigb]

Well there's nothing stopping you having a vice at each end. This is what Driver did with his bench. There's a pic of it in the archives.

I think that if you only had one vice you'd find having it at the left hand end would be the most practical for long term use.

After all, this is where right handers have been putting them for centuries. :D

I can't comment on the tail vice as I don't have one.

[Driver]

Here's a photo of the bench that Craig refers to. As you will see, it has face vices at both RH and LH ends, - and a tail vice. I've added dog holes in a grid across the bench top to link up to dog holes in the tail vice and adjustable dogs in the two face vices. This allows for multiple clamping configurations.

Incidentally, one school of thought about LH end placement of vices says that if you use the vice to clamp a workpiece for sawing right-handed, the waste will project over the end of the bench and can be supported there by your left hand.

Hope this helps!

Col

[BobL]

As major and lpg inidcate a tail vice is very useful for for cross dogging/clamping. I also find it useful for holding stops at one end of the bench although most of the time it seems to be holding my inverted belt sander jig (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showpost.php?p=411193&postcount=9) in place. I also used my tail vice to support an add on shoulder vice (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showpost.php?p=318170&postcount=4).

I prefer to hand saw small stuff all the way through by holding the timber using a bench hook rather than a vice. That way the timber is supported underneath and the bit being cut off only falls a very short distance onto the bench top.

However, don't let any of this put you off adding two vices to the front . For my next bench I would seriously consider two vices. If I were to make my bench over again I would make sure my LHS edge of my LHS vice was flush with the end of the bench.

[Manix77]

Thanks guys, I'm starting to get it but it's taking time to sink in. I'm also starting to understand the tail vice (I'm not very smart...but I can lift heavy things! :doh: )

I definitely like the sound of two vices and my plan will probably allow for an end vice at a later stage.

Col

I like the look of your design, what was the rationale behind the placement of the RH front vice?

At the moment I have a Z-vise clamped to a door on two saw horses. I clamp the vice on the RH corner, 1, so I can operate the handle and 2, so when I'm sawing a board the waste hangs off the edge of the bench and I place my left hand of the board or vice for stability (stability for me and the board). This also allows me to sight the cut line. If I clamped a piece in a LH vice I could support the offcut with my left hand (but not myself) but I'd have my line of sight to the cut line obscured by the saw.

Am I looking into this too deep? :?

I don't often saw large pieces by hand but I have this mind set that the vice needs to be on the RH front while every other right hander on the planet seems to prefer it on the LH front!

I see the advantage in using a bench hook but I'd still need some means of cutting big stuff. I also see the advantage of placing the vice (wherever you put it) so one edge of the vice is on the edge of the bench.

I've been putting off building this thing too long but like I said before I want to get it right.

[scooter]

I'm not very smart...but I can lift heavy things!



That's fings, as in "I can lift heavy fings " :D

[Manix77]

That's fings, as in "I can lift heavy fings " :D

I'm obviously more articulate than I thought! :doh:

[JDarvall]

That's fings, as in "I can lift heavy fings " :D

:U yeeeeh real big fings !......itul fings, huuuuuuge fings.....eshully nawty fings:B ........, me just luv fings, mista :yippy:

[BobL]

I re-read the title of this thread ; "Vice Location On Workbench" . . . .

and prompted by ApricotT's "eshully nawty fings .....":B

I wonder if it really refers to something like "what the lawyer and his/her assistant were up to after work last week" . . . .. . :o

Did Bill and Monica use a workbench?

[Tex B]

Manix

I remembered wondering the same thing when I built my workbench. Because you're using saw horses, you need to saw on the right side so that your left hand can keep things steady. With a workbench and vise, you do not need to keep things steady, the bench and vise do that. So it is far easier to saw with the vise on the LH side of the bench, and use your free hand to support the waste piece.

With a good bench, you can hold the saw with both hands and go for your life, and the piece won't shake or rock like it would on sawhorses.

I have not noticed a problem with line of sight.

Tex

[Driver]

Col

I like the look of your design, what was the rationale behind the placement of the RH front vice?

Nothing too complicated. The RH front vice needed to be positioned so its screw and guide rails wouldn't foul those of the tail vice when both vices are fully closed. As it is, they clear each other by about 5 mm.



Am I looking into this too deep? :?

No, it's important to understand the whys and wherefores. I put off building my bench for probably 18 months while I read up on various designs and used the combined wisdom from the blokes on these forums to work out a design that suited me. Incidentally, my bench isn't complete. Far from it. No self-respecting woodworker would ever consider that his bench couldn't be improved. I've already got half-formed plans in my head for various improvements. :cool:



I've been putting off building this thing too long but like I said before I want to get it right.

Well, there you go! See? You're not looking into this too deep! :wink:

Keep thinking, mate!

Col

[soundman]

The stereotypical european wood working bench with a front vice and a tail vice and all sorts of other design specifics is very much designed from a dark side perspective, where heaps of hand planing of boards is done.
Mopst of the tasks that would have been once done at the bench would now be done with machines....... unless you have gone over to the ...... dark side

Personaly I have absolutely no use for a tail vice or a tool well or most of the features of a european style bench. so I don't have one.

I have a flat bench with a low backboard and two metal front vices one at each end. As far as I am concerned one of the primary functions of a bench is to hold up vices I do most work somewhere else.

There was an article in FWW years ago, about a low assembly bench. The author wrote about this fathers beautifull work bench that was primarily somewhere to put tools and eat lunch.

cheers

[Driver]

There was an article in FWW years ago, about a low assembly bench.

Now that is a good idea. When I build my new shed, an assembly bench - probably around 450 - 500 mm high will be an early addition.

Col

[Cliff Rogers]

Go here...
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=34739
On the 2nd post under workbenchs & follow the links.
You will find more stuff about vices on workbenchs than you can read in a year. :2tsup:

[Cliff Rogers]

I have a big old metal framed office desk that is about 750mm high that I find useful.
I also like the adjustable aliminium plaster's stools AKA work platforms as tempory worksurfaces while putting stuff together.
$59 at Bunnies, 590mm on the lowest setting & 890mm on the highest.

[Lignum]

There was an article in FWW years ago, about a low assembly bench. The author wrote about this fathers beautifull work bench that was primarily somewhere to put tools and eat lunch.

cheers

Same here. I have a "normal" workbench with all the usual feaures like dog holes etc and a seperate 8 x 4 sheet of melamine on a craparta frame and its used 90% of the time. Its only 15% of the surface area (around the vice) on my traditional bench thats ever used and the rest is used to dump stuff, and eat and read the newspaper.

Ive been thinking for ages now how id love to get rid of it and make a real nice rock solid and heavy 800x600 bench with the best vice i can afford and sit it beside my crapy melaminue bench. That would be the ultimate bench for me:)

[rhancock]

I have a flat bench with a low backboard and two metal front vices one at each end. As far as I am concerned one of the primary functions of a bench is to hold up vices I do most work somewhere else.

There was an article in FWW years ago, about a low assembly bench. The author wrote about this fathers beautifull work bench that was primarily somewhere to put tools and eat lunch.

Since in real life I'm a DIYer and only a woodworker in my dreams, my bench is where I put the stuff I've just used on a job so I know where to find it next time I need it....:)

Having said that I am about to embark on a 'proper' work bench, based on the info in this forum, and selected for the features I will use ( and can afford - I'm trying to get Dad to mail his quick release vice over from the uk!).

To keep on topic, Dad has always had his vice centred! But then he's always been indecisive like me.:) I think the comments about planing are very pertinent - If I was likely to plane lots then I'd mount it left, but since I'm a jobbing carpenter rather than a woodworker most of my planing is doors and windows on site, so the vice is for holding stuff while I fix it or break it, or paint it or sand it, and other very non woodworking stuff so I probably will mount it on the right. Currently I have a top mounted engineers vice bolted to a metal frame table, which I put on the right without even thinking about it.

Having said all that I have a very strong feeling I while regret this decision in a year or two when I can spend more time on woodwork. What's to stop me relocating the vice as I need it? Anyone got any experience with a 'movable vice' - pre drill the necessary holes and use screw in bolts with butterfly heads maybe? Then you could choose your position depending on the job at hand. Someone cleverer than me could probably come up with a quick release system - like on bike wheels?

[BobL]

What's to stop me relocating the vice as I need it? Anyone got any experience with a 'movable vice' - pre drill the necessary holes and use screw in bolts with butterfly heads maybe? Then you could choose your position depending on the job at hand. Someone cleverer than me could probably come up with a quick release system - like on bike wheels?

Humm . . . I wouldn't like my vice to be held on with just butterfly nuts. I reckon most people would move a moveable vice once? maybe twice, and then it would stay in that position.

Two vices Or you could always make the whole front face of your bench a vice if you wanted to.

[woodhog]

Heres how I will decide when building my new bench. Which tools/how many require right or left handed use? Will it be near a wall or in the middle of a room? Is it being used for gluing edges? I hang identical 3/4" pipe clamps on garage studs with T fittings & a metal rod going through the T fittings for edge gluing. A hinged wooden board supports all of the pipe clamps at a slight angle. This is cheaper than an extra vise if you dont need one. It also allows you to use your workbench for other stuff while the glue is drying.

[Neal]

Australian Woodsmith magazine just out has a nice smaller bench where the whole top is a vice + it has an end vice both vices home made with booker rod . Like some others mention my bench turns into somewhere to store tools etc so next bench will not have tool a tool well probably something simular to above mags with the drawer to hide the junk in out of site & the way.

[rhancock]

I like the idea of a 'junk' drawer. I don't like tool wells as when I do work on the bench, I want to have the whole bench clear - helps to clear my mind too! - tidy bench = tidy mind? But there are always things you want to have right to hand - first aid kit! etc..

Bob, I think you're right, the more I thought about it, the less it seemed like good idea. I don't think theres any way of getting a vice fixed firmly enough to be useful with movable fixings.

So I think I will start off with a right hand vice, and add a left hand one when it becomes necessary.

So now off to start a thread about how I identify a good quality bargain vice....