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View Full Version : Okay, Dreamtime



Daddles
20th February 2007, 03:15 PM
Right. Let's imagine you're sound asleep in your bed, the kids are at grandma's and if you're foolish enough to still have a SWMBO, she's off with the girls somewhere. Let's imagine that the resident Mad Dingo has crept into your sleeping chamber, and given you a thorough beating with the insanity stick :oo:

What boat would you build when you got up in the morning?

Me? It'd be a plywood clinker rowboat. 'bout 18 foot long. Low, lean and all bright finished :D

Richard

dopeydriver
20th February 2007, 04:21 PM
Well , assuming I had the time and ability to get stuck right in to it and get the job done reasonably quickly , I'd like to built Iain Oughtreds Haiku .
But I'd like Iain to design in electric backup power.
Rob J.

Wild Dingo
20th February 2007, 05:28 PM
comeon Rob!! he did say

DREAMTIME!!!

me? oooh my boat dreams are absofrigginlutely amaflaminzing!!! :2tsup:

present dreams range between the 29ft Murray Peterson Susan schooner, Paul Gartsides 26 Ft Gaff Cutter, Design #116 and somewould say then deteriorates rapidly downwards to GlenLs 24ft Noyo Trawler fishing boat to a 1920s designed 21ft houseboat and during those moments dreaming of a fun quick build boatsi tend to consider the Stevensons Weekender or Pilot boat... but I also consider Mike Wallers trailer cat from time to time along with Iain Ougtreds Grey Seal or BB Crowinshields Dark Harbor

I once held dreams of his Fame design but whats the use of a 40ft schooner if its not an open sea long distance traveller design? phutsing around bunbury waters going nowhere in a 40fter is just plain dumb :roll: in my view of course :;

At one time i actually started Atkin's valgerda made up the rudder, the tiller, drew out the lines, laid down the keel and even got some of the frames made up... then got bit full frontal by another dream boat and so it goes :doh:

asidefrom that Ive made the wheel for a boat of 20ft and another for one up to 29ft (20in dia end 26in dia) mooring bitts, belaying pins side light stands just in case :; and the moulds and strongback for 2 canoes :2tsup:

and yet still I dream :C

DREAMS aaahhh what would life be without them eh? :; :2tsup:


note I made no mention of me recurring dream related to a double canoe design by a pom whose name if said would incite certain mates to foam loose their false teefs blow smoke out their bums and otherwise go completely troppo at the mere mention of said designers name... hint initials are JW... gotta duck swerve weave an hide now :U :U

Marc
20th February 2007, 10:00 PM
http://dieselducks.com/ducksite%20images/462%20making-time.jpg

http://dieselducks.com/ducksite%20images/462%20portview.jpg
http://dieselducks.com/ducksite%20images/462%20sternview.jpg
462 Diesel Duck "Mandarin" Well He said dreamtime right?

ozwinner
20th February 2007, 10:03 PM
I own the QM2.
So there..
And youse is all guests on it for a world cruise..

Al :q

journeyman Mick
20th February 2007, 11:25 PM
All of us are guests? Al, that's not a dream, that's a nightmare!:o

Hmm, I reckon a modern incarnation of a pearling lugger, old fasioned construction, spotted gum hull, white beech decks plus all modern electronic navigation and communication, but discreetly hidden so that at first glance she looks like the real deal. Powered by two not too modern turbo diesels (not electronic) with keel cooling. Reverse osmosis fresh water maker, plenty of fuel and water tanks, large cool room and freezer.

Mick

TK1
21st February 2007, 09:41 AM
Hi,

OK, I'll have a go. Dream buiolds...Pretty much one of what everyone else has said so far :D All good choices. Although I'd lean towards a diesel duck or a wooden tug/workboat design.

But my recurring dream is Baby Bootlegger. Completely impractical for anything other than going fast, noisy, beautiful lines and (relatively) simple to build. I can get the plans, and once I've built a few smaller boats, and find 35' of space, I'll build it. :D :rolleyes: Oh, and after I've convinced SHMBO of course! :((

If it has to have sails, I'd love to build a J Class or similar old racing yacht.

Too many boats, too little time and definitely too little money!

I'll start with a kayak and work my way up :p

Regards,
Darren

Marc
21st February 2007, 06:48 PM
Hmm, I reckon a modern incarnation of a pearling lugger, old fasioned construction, spotted gum hull, white beech decks plus all modern electronic navigation and communication, but discreetly hidden so that at first glance she looks like the real deal. Powered by two not too modern turbo diesels (not electronic) with keel cooling. Reverse osmosis fresh water maker, plenty of fuel and water tanks, large cool room and freezer.

Mick

Hi Mick, good choice.
Curious about the two engines, turbo and keel cooling.
One slow rev NA engine is usualy the better choice, also not so sure about keel cooling. What's wrong with fresh water cooling?
This is my engine of choice
http://www.mainlinediesel.com/gardner-engines.htm#

mcchaddy
21st February 2007, 08:44 PM
Hi All,

I would love to build anything by ChrisCraft (pre1940's) or garwood. I have the plans for a 1939 ChrisCraft Barrel Back, which hopefully will find its way into my shead. Also the Bassett/Bolger Blackbird featured in WB's Small boat magazine. What a beautiful looking boat. The Kiwi Cruiser by Peter Sewell. I could go on forever.

As far as sail boats go. I love the C.C. Hanley Catboat design in WB #193 called "Kathleen". Luckily its just a dream because I know I would never build it.

Anyhow, time to wake up.

Michael.

journeyman Mick
22nd February 2007, 12:43 AM
Marc,
2 engines = 1 spare if something goes wrong. I've been out at sea and seen how quickly things go wrong when Murphy strikes and am a firm believer in back up systems.
Turbos, well more performance. Also more heat etc, but as long as you're not trying to wring every last horse out of the engine it's possible to have a long lived, reliable, responsive engine.
Keel cooling, well I've worked on heaps of refits and seen all the dramas with blocked strainers, sea chests leaking, corroding and leaking heat exchangers etc etc etc.
Spent every Tuesday for a few years doing maintenance work on a commercial boat and the amount of maintenance dropped dramatically when the refrigeration/freezer/Air cons plus main motor and genset all got keel cooling.

One major job I did, well actually I was just supervisiong the refit but took over after the engineering supervisor freaked out and took off, was to cut a hole in the side of a steel hull boat, build a gantry and remove the old gardiner + box and replace with something a bit more late 20th century. Owners were very pleased as they got a better cruising speed and more range from their tanks, plus better response so better maneuverability.

It's all a dream anyway, I've had plans for a 15'6" ply dinghy for well over a year now and they're waiting for the long list of home renovations + shed extensions + landscaping to get done. It may be some time yet.:(

Mick

Marc
22nd February 2007, 08:19 PM
Yes, I suppose keel cooling is simpler, Not sure how it performs on a recreational boat that sits 90 % of the time idle.

As for dual engines, I think the same applies.
Plus, double maintenance double cost, two props, poor fuel economy.
Most commercial boats have one engine.
Back up? A good sail rig?

Turbo charged engines. If they are new they will perforn OK. If they are older, you are asking for problems. Naturally aspirated engines with low (16:1) compression is the way to go.
In defence of Gardner engines, there is not much that can compare, short of Caterpillar and GMC. Nothing beats 180 gr of fuel per HP/Hour.
Of course a shot gardner engine cannot compete with a new whatever.
Gardeners are very expensive and so maintenance is left behind. Plus the original mechanical gardner gearbox is so expensive to repair that not even the gardner people use it anymore.

journeyman Mick
22nd February 2007, 10:28 PM
Yes, I suppose keel cooling is simpler, Not sure how it performs on a recreational boat that sits 90 % of the time idle.



Marc,
pretty much like a radiator in a car that sits idle for 90% of the time. And in my dream, I get to live on it and be out at sea (with a bevy of beautiful admirers) at least 90% of the time. Of course I need to call into port to pick up more rum and other rations now and then.



Plus, double maintenance double cost, two props, poor fuel economy.


Remember, we're talking about our dreams here right :D



Most commercial boats have one engine.


Depends on size and application plus maneauvarability, I've worked on a few that had three and lots that had two.


Back up? A good sail rig?

well yeah, I wanted a two masted lugger, but when the winds hammering you towards a lee shore and one motor has just died (Murphy) it's great to have those extra horses at your finger tips.


Turbo charged engines. If they are new they will perforn OK. If they are older, you are asking for problems.

Hey, this is my dream boat, remember? Of course it's got new engines!:D Of course they're not brand new, because it's near impossible to get anything nowadays that isn't computer controlled, right down to the gearbox. No, I'd have something modernish but lovingly rebuilt to as new specs (by me, coz then I know it's been done right) Did a fitout on a jet drive shuttle boat powered by twin 6cyl Cummins turbodiesels that really got up and went, they'd do me, without the jet drives of course. Actually that gardener wasn't shot, the owners wanted a better turn of speed. They sold the Gardener as a going concern.

Sadly, like I said, it will probably be quite some time before I even get my humble ply dinghy built.:roll:

Mick

Marc
23rd February 2007, 02:36 PM
Mick, I must say that if you want a pearl lugger bad enough you are going to have one.

http://www.williecruises.com.au/images/willie.jpg
http://www.afloat.com.au/www/79/files/1205-p18-hdr.jpg

Stick this picture on the wall, find a place to build it, buy the plans, then some timber, the engine/s (Caterpillar OK?), the rest comes along for the ride.:2tsup:

Marc
23rd February 2007, 02:45 PM
Still thinking about keel cooling.
Clrearly simpler than a heat exchanger plus pump.

However, unless you are going to have a dry stack, (fire hazard) you need a salt water pump to cool the manifold and exaust pipe sort of defeats the purpose. Plus the dry stack prevents you from having rubber mounts for the engine.
I've seen some heat exchange units built inside the maniflod like one unit, not much can go wrong there...what you think?

dopeydriver
23rd February 2007, 03:35 PM
If you go to http://apyachts.com.au , they have a magnificent Pearling Lugger on their books !.
Rob J.

journeyman Mick
23rd February 2007, 04:37 PM
Marc,
the boats that had a dry stack had it running through a ventilator that was exhuasting the forced air cooling/ventilation for the engine room. Not just on steel and Ally boats but also on timber and glass ones. Don't know if it was just a mnufacturing fault but I saw one of those heat exchanger manifolds get replaced quite a few times on the one boat until they went to keel cooling. Can't see how you can have rubber mounts on an engine (unless it's just a genset) because the propshaft is a solid mount. I've always seen them solid mounted in place with "chockfast" once it's all aligned.

Mick

Marc
23rd February 2007, 08:51 PM
I see, so the problem can be the heat exchange unit not the pump.
One can have the manifold cooled with the coolant and a bit of salt water pumped in the exaust.
Yes I know how dry stack work. I don't like them noisy and hot.

You can have rubber mount on an engine, if you have a rubber coupling and the shaft mounted with a push bearing to take the thrust.

Take a pick at this:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/30kW-40hp-NEW-MARINE-DIESEL-ENGINE-GEARBOX_W0QQitemZ160086233731QQihZ006QQcategoryZ26451QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Mick, you are in Queensland, what do you think of it?
$5600 for a new 40HP is not bad. Just what's needed for the Noyo T.

Fugley
23rd February 2007, 08:59 PM
This is Dreamtime.....
1. Would be an Original Tasmanian Trading Ketch.... I spent some time on one of these Honest working Vessels in the early 70's Named "One and All " unfortunatly lost off the East Cost on the way back from Middleton Reef...Bugger
2. Would be an original Broome Pearling Lugger .... not many of them left these days...
3. Would be a 48ft Bilge Keel Ketch......

journeyman Mick
24th February 2007, 12:58 AM
Marc,
most of the boats I worked on had seriously large motors, horsepower in the very high hundreds or higher. While there was often a rubber encased drive section it was only to take up small scale vibration (I guess) if the motors were rubber mounted there would have been so much movement that they would have shredded any flexible drives.

Dunno about that motor, looks a bit low tech to me, which can be a good thing I guess. In all seriousness, I'm pretty over boats and would be more likely to pay for a charter than own anything of a serious size. I've seen how much money they swallow, hell, I made a very good living out of charging people nearly twice what I'd charge for the same work on a house. :D Besides, that motor is about twice as far from me as it is from you. :rolleyes: (look at the map:wink: )

If an when I do build something it may have something like a 4hp outboard to potter around with on those glassy calm days we get a few times a year.

Mick

dopeydriver
24th February 2007, 07:44 PM
You want a real pearling lugger ?.
Go to http://yachthub.com/brokers/mdbs_rushcutters/ed.php?de=18987
Rob J.
Once again , it seems this isn't working for me.
But if you got to the yachts 36-40 ft , this lugger is there.
Sorry for cocking it up again.
Rob j.

Fugley
24th February 2007, 08:23 PM
Rob J
Last time i saw this boat ...
was at Berkinhead Point Marina
and it was for sale for $95k
that was in the dim dark days of Yaw
when I was Workin as a Yacht Rigger.. a long time ago..

luggerite
2nd June 2008, 01:05 AM
Mick, I must say that if you want a pearl lugger bad enough you are going to have one.

http://www.williecruises.com.au/images/willie.jpg
http://www.afloat.com.au/www/79/files/1205-p18-hdr.jpg

Stick this picture on the wall, find a place to build it, buy the plans, then some timber, the engine/s (Caterpillar OK?), the rest comes along for the ride.:2tsup:

Hmm, only problem is that the pictured WILLIE is steel, built in 1986, on the lines of PATANELLA (now there's a mystery for you!), with a rig based on US schooner practice.... but built by a genuine pearling lugger owner who wanted a charter boat without the compromises (aka design adaptations) of the real thing for a different purpose - horses for courses......
:q