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Evan Pavlidis
22nd February 2007, 03:11 AM
I picked up some figured myrtle blanks from the Melb www show last year and they are all sealed with wax. They measure 220 mm dia. x 120 mm. height and they're stored in the garage off the concrete. Had a look at them yesterday and I almost pulled my hair out :o ; a couple of them started to crack from the side across the face to almost the centre. The cracks are about 2 mm wide and deep so I filled them with CA to prevent further cracking.
What can I do to avoid this problem?
Should I rough turn them inside and out leaving a 1 in. wall thickness and wrap them tightly in brown paper or leave them as they are filling new cracks with CA when they appear and hope for the best.
If I rough turn them will the cracking be eliminated or minimised?
Anyone experience the same with myrtle? how did you go about fixing the problem?

All help welcome. Thanks, Evan

Skew ChiDAMN!!
22nd February 2007, 04:03 AM
AAARGH! Don't you hate that? Figured Myrtle, too? :oo: My heart truly bleeds for you. This Summer hasn't been kind to some of my blanks either, so I can fully empathise. :C

How hot is your shed getting in this weather? Is it any cooler under your house or elsewhere on your property?

2mm cracks? Sorry to say, I don't think filling 'em with CA is going to accomplish much. Sure, it may stop those cracks from growing wider, but instead the stresses'll probably build up until new cracks start at the next weakest grain section. IMHO it would have been better to simply seal the existing cracks with more wax or endgrain sealer, (making sure it goes well down into the crack) to limit moisture loss through it and have the crack act as the "safety relief" to preserve what's left of the blank. I'd leave the CA alone until actually turning the bowl.

Either way the crack will be visible in the finished product and I'd rather have one wide one I could make a feature of instead of myriad little ones.

As for rough turning, well... that's also a mixed proposition. Roughing to 1" won't necessarily stop checking but it gives the form room to move and reduce the chances of checking quite a bit. I coat my rough-turned items all over in end-sealer, then pack 'em with their own shavings in small cardboard boxes.

So, if it minimises the odds, why do I say that it's a mixed proposition? Say you hollow it out, pack it away and come back in a few weeks only to see that it's cracked clear across the base. Well, having already roughed the bowl you've reduced the chances of salvaging anything out of the blank. At least if 'twas still a full block you could possibly cut it up for veneers, pen blanks or maybe some smaller bowls/boxes. But a roughed bowl? :no:

I only pre-rough blanks I can easily replace or weren't particularly valuable in the first place. But then again, I'm a tight-asre who likes to squeeze as much out of any tree as possible. (I wonder if I can turn laminated leaves? :wink: )

Evan Pavlidis
22nd February 2007, 06:05 AM
AAARGH! Don't you hate that? Figured Myrtle, too? :oo: My heart truly bleeds for you. This Summer hasn't been kind to some of my blanks either, so I can fully empathise. :C

How hot is your shed getting in this weather? Is it any cooler under your house or elsewhere on your property?

2mm cracks? Sorry to say, I don't think filling 'em with CA is going to accomplish much. Sure, it may stop those cracks from growing wider, but instead the stresses'll probably build up until new cracks start at the next weakest grain section. IMHO it would have been better to simply seal the existing cracks with more wax or endgrain sealer, (making sure it goes well down into the crack) to limit moisture loss through it and have the crack act as the "safety relief" to preserve what's left of the blank. I'd leave the CA alone until actually turning the bowl.

Either way the crack will be visible in the finished product and I'd rather have one wide one I could make a feature of instead of myriad little ones.

As for rough turning, well... that's also a mixed proposition. Roughing to 1" won't necessarily stop checking but it gives the form room to move and reduce the chances of checking quite a bit. I coat my rough-turned items all over in end-sealer, then pack 'em with their own shavings in small cardboard boxes.

So, if it minimises the odds, why do I say that it's a mixed proposition? Say you hollow it out, pack it away and come back in a few weeks only to see that it's cracked clear across the base. Well, having already roughed the bowl you've reduced the chances of salvaging anything out of the blank. At least if 'twas still a full block you could possibly cut it up for veneers, pen blanks or maybe some smaller bowls/boxes. But a roughed bowl? :no:

I only pre-rough blanks I can easily replace or weren't particularly valuable in the first place. But then again, I'm a tight-asre who likes to squeeze as much out of any tree as possible. (I wonder if I can turn laminated leaves? :wink: )


Gooday Skew, thank for your reply. The garage I work in is hotter inside than out. It has a flat tin roof and everytime I try to work I have to get out because it becomes a steam bath. That's why lately I've been working in the cool of night. These Melb scorchers are really stuffing up some of my blanks; blackwood, redgum, burls are ok but sassie and myrtle are nothing but trouble.

I don't want to put them under the house in case termites colonise and eat them up :o .
I'm going to rough turn because I can't see the checking from stopping; It wants to run it's course so I'll play it by ear :C It's too expensive not to try and making pens out of it is definitely out. Got blanks for that. This end grain sealer you mention, what's it called and where do you get it from?

Thanks mate

rsser
22nd February 2007, 07:23 AM
Green myrtle is notoriously unstable.

Two other options you have:

Wrap the waxed blanks in plakky bags ... but chk for mould from time to time.

Finish turn from green. This has to be done in one session; even if you leave it just for a cuppa wrap it up. It's more likely to dry without cracking if the wall is turned down to an even thickness, but you may get a lightly rippled surface. I like this effect but if you don't then go down the rough turning then dry path.

TTIT
22nd February 2007, 08:52 AM
.......I only pre-rough blanks I can easily replace or weren't particularly valuable in the first place. But then again, I'm a tight-asre who likes to squeeze as much out of any tree as possible. (I wonder if I can turn laminated leaves? :wink: )I knew there was a reason I operated this way :doh: I just didn't know what it was until now :B

Good advice Skew!

Skew ChiDAMN!!
22nd February 2007, 11:05 AM
This end grain sealer you mention, what's it called and where do you get it from?

My preference is for Mobilcer-M (or what's now called Mobilcer 195) available through most Mobil distributors. This thread (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=42831) covers some of it, a lot more info can be found by simply typing 'mobilcer' or 'end sealer' in the search box at the top of this page, just under the title & ticking the www.woodworkforums.com box... :wink:

bobsreturn2003
22nd February 2007, 11:27 AM
problem seems they are drying out too quickly . if they were waxed all over ,more wax or sealer wont make much difference . for your wood and your comfort. i suggest you insulate your roof .and perhaps keep blanks buried in sawdust/shavings . to keep it cool ,and moist . in the tropics the humidity slows the drying , but we get days you can almost hear the wood cracking . myrtle does crack or shrink . when drying also cheers bob

Evan Pavlidis
22nd February 2007, 01:16 PM
Thanks guys for your help. Had a look at the sealed blanks today but havn't noticed any new cracks. (I know the day is not over yet :rolleyes: ).

Ern, if I rough turn to an even wall thickness, then place the blank in a cardboard box with shavings/chaff, will that be equivalent to placing it in a plakky bag? The reason I ask is, I don't have plakky bags and have about 10 blanks.

Bob, after I rough turn and seal the blanks with this Mobilcer sealer won't that slow down the drying process to be consistent all around preventing checks; or is myrtle one of those temprimental unpredictable timbers that cracks when it feels like it no matter what you seal it with? You're right mate, with this recent hot scorching Melbourne weather you actually can hear timber crack; exactly the same sound as breaking a tooth pick :(( :oo: :? :o :C :~

rodent
22nd February 2007, 01:45 PM
garbage bags heavy ones

Little Festo
22nd February 2007, 02:34 PM
Thanks guys for your help. Had a look at the sealed blanks today but havn't noticed any new cracks. (I know the day is not over yet :rolleyes: ).

Ern, if I rough turn to an even wall thickness, then place the blank in a cardboard box with shavings/chaff, will that be equivalent to placing it in a plakky bag? The reason I ask is, I don't have plakky bags and have about 10 blanks.

Bob, after I rough turn and seal the blanks with this Mobilcer sealer won't that slow down the drying process to be consistent all around preventing checks; or is myrtle one of those temprimental unpredictable timbers that cracks when it feels like it no matter what you seal it with? You're right mate, with this recent hot scorching Melbourne weather you actually can hear timber crack; exactly the same sound as breaking a tooth pick :(( :oo: :? :o :C :~

Evan,

I only seal on the outside on my roughs. I must have at least 50+ roughed bowls, platters etc and don't have a big problem with cracking. I do check and if any cracking appears I use a bit of CA glue. Most blanks are stored in plastic or cloth bags, if not sometimes a extra coat of end-sealer a month of three after the first. It seems as though some moisture can escape through the end-sealer. Hot humid days are not too bad BUT when the humidity drops cracking is much more prevelent.

Peter

rsser
22nd February 2007, 02:57 PM
Evan, no cling wrap?

And yes, Myrtle is one of those timbers so IMO if it's started checking you have to either wrap it or completely turn it while green. You can try rough turning one and see if it settles while the others are wrapped.

TTIT
22nd February 2007, 03:19 PM
I only seal on the outside on my roughs. I must have at least 50+ roughed bowls, platters etc and don't have a big problem with cracking. .......I follow the same principles in that I cover the outside of the rough in newspaper. Seems to slow the drying from the outside just enough to let the inside keep pace. I've had very little cracking from some pretty cantankerous timbers since I started using this method. Gave up putting ANY blanks in plastic after some serious mould problems :C. (even buried in shavings in a plastic bag!)

bobsreturn2003
22nd February 2007, 03:40 PM
myrtle is a little cantankerous . rough turn and cover with wax or cerm . pile of sawdust stops it getting so hot .and slows the breeze down . insulating the shed roof is great up here ,you can be heard when its raining and work when its hot . what you are after is to even out the water transfer and slow it don . cheers bob :U

ptc
22nd February 2007, 05:50 PM
this is a dry bit.

Flaco
22nd February 2007, 06:57 PM
Rough turn , submerge in soap solution ( 1:1 ) for a week, air dry for a month , finish turning .
Always works for me

rsser
22nd February 2007, 08:45 PM
You got Myrtle over there Flaco?

ie Nothofagus Cuninghamii

...

Peter, put it away!

hughie
22nd February 2007, 11:03 PM
Rough turn , submerge in soap solution ( 1:1 ) for a week, air dry for a month , finish turning .
Always works for me


Yep same for me, although I left mine in for about month...forgot em..:doh:
Then sat em in a cardboard box, my shed was a bit breezy :U

Evan Pavlidis
3rd March 2007, 06:39 AM
Gooday guys,

had a look at the myrtle blank today which I rough turned over a week ago and all is well :2tsup: ; I smeared paste wax all over the outside and buried it with the slightly wet shavings in a cardboard box. No cracks so far so I reckon I'll rip into the remaining blanks by the end of the month. Thanks again for all your help. :)

Cheers, Evan

rsser
3rd March 2007, 05:46 PM
Good news Evan.

But keep checking it.

rodent
4th March 2007, 12:40 AM
Im putting all my blanks under the house ,even the dry ones are starting to stress out badly . they seem to be holding there own under the house.

rsser
4th March 2007, 07:50 AM
Yeah, this weather. At least the recent humidity has been good for the blanks but at Xmas a fine piece of gidgee from Vern checked to near useless over four days.

TTIT
5th March 2007, 09:21 AM
Yeah, this weather. At least the recent humidity has been good for the blanks but at Xmas a fine piece of gidgee from Vern checked to near useless over four days.Sorry to hear that Ern! I thought it would do better in cooler climes but it seems your summer heatwave might be the same as our average. I've found the only way to beat the checking in large chunks is to turn it green - doesn't seem to matter how well it's sealed either. :shrug:

lubbing5cherubs
5th March 2007, 09:27 AM
We are finding gidgee likes doing that too. Very dissappointing but it is nice wood. Love the finish on it.
bye Toni

rsser
5th March 2007, 10:02 AM
That's useful to know.

I'd attributed it to a sharp drop in RH and tried to recover the piece by wetting and wrapping it in plastic but no go. Sigh.

Pen blanks now maybe.

TTIT
5th March 2007, 10:18 AM
.........Pen blanks now maybe.
Ouch:o - that bad eh! Most of my bigger stuff seems to break down to around 3" to 4" sectors so I can still get small boxes/pots/goblets etc or even saw into box boards. Going looking for some ringed stuff out there this winter - will keep you posted for some 'green':;.

DJ’s Timber
5th March 2007, 10:27 AM
Just about every piece of gidgee I have seen has some cracked or split wide open.

I once helped Rare Woods sort out a couple of cubic metres of kiln dried packs and lets say that most of it was resawn for spindle turning, with some very small bowl blanks recovered and even some of these were returned after being sold, due to further checking.

I have some nice pieces that I got from them years ago and the bigger pieces cracked within a short time and smaller pieces are still the same as they were 3 or 4 years ago.

Evan Pavlidis
5th March 2007, 07:57 PM
Just about every piece of gidgee I have seen has some cracked or split wide open.

I once helped Rare Woods sort out a couple of cubic metres of kiln dried packs and lets say that most of it was resawn for spindle turning, with some very small bowl blanks recovered and even some of these were returned after being sold, due to further checking.

I have some nice pieces that I got from them years ago and the bigger pieces cracked within a short time and smaller pieces are still the same as they were 3 or 4 years ago.

Gooday DJ,

speaking of Rare Woods, what happened to them; I went to their shop in Abbotsford a few years ago and noticed a sign stating they're not in operation and thought maybe it is temporary. Went back a few months later and shop was still closed. Sue Fletcher was always very helpful with advising wood choices and finishes for several pieces of furniture I was making. Have they moved to other premises under a different name or have they shut shop for good.
In the past I have scored some very nice gidgee, mulgar, Qld maple, highly figured blackwood, beefwood, WA sheoak and English oak from them but my supply is now almost non existent.
What I liked most was that I didn't have to travel great distances to pick up hard to find timbers.

Cheers, Evan

rsser
5th March 2007, 08:09 PM
Sue'd had enough; she sold up. Don't know what she's doing now.

DJ’s Timber
5th March 2007, 08:25 PM
Gooday DJ,

speaking of Rare Woods, what happened to them; I went to their shop in Abbotsford a few years ago and noticed a sign stating they're not in operation and thought maybe it is temporary. Went back a few months later and shop was still closed. Sue Fletcher was always very helpful with advising wood choices and finishes for several pieces of furniture I was making. Have they moved to other premises under a different name or have they shut shop for good.
In the past I have scored some very nice gidgee, mulgar, Qld maple, highly figured blackwood, beefwood, WA sheoak and English oak from them but my supply is now almost non existent.
What I liked most was that I didn't have to travel great distances to pick up hard to find timbers.

Cheers, Evan

Not too sure on why they shut down. Heard lots off different stories going round the bandwagon and don't really want to comment on that one.

I did bump into Dave last week, who use to do all the milling and selling before Sue took over and he did say that everything is still there and thought they open 1 or 2 days a week. Don't know if this is the case or not, I will have to ask around and see if this is so

Evan Pavlidis
5th March 2007, 08:28 PM
Sue'd had enough; she sold up. Don't know what she's doing now.

Thanks Ern, sad to hear; they had good stock on hand.

Cheers, Evan

Evan Pavlidis
5th March 2007, 08:38 PM
Not too sure on why they shut down. Heard lots off different stories going round the bandwagon and don't really want to comment on that one.

I did bump into Dave last week, who use to do all the milling and selling before Sue took over and he did say that everything is still there and thought they open 1 or 2 days a week. Don't know if this is the case or not, I will have to ask around and see if this is the case or not


DJ, much appreciated if you could find out more given you know Dave who worked there and have bumped into him.

Thanks, Evan

rudyzzz
7th March 2007, 10:46 AM
Thanks for those tips, very usefull

rsser
7th March 2007, 04:50 PM
Thanks Ern, sad to hear; they had good stock on hand.

Cheers, Evan

They sure did have some gems and it was always a good place to go and rummage. But for a while before they closed the only on-the-shelf blanks were green waxed Tassie stuff.

Sue did say she'd have a final sale and let her customers know but I never heard anything.

Warehouse has a 'for lease' sign on it now I think.