Goings on in the Workshop

[kiwigeo]

The forum has finallty decided to work with my Mac and Firefox....seems to be a bug that appears every few weeks.

Anyway some pics of latest action in the workshop. Guitars under construction as follows:

No 2 - Torres style classical. Currently near end of a long French polish job (far guitar in first photo).
No 3 - Steel String. Neck has just gone on along with fretboard. Spent 2 months getting the dovetail M and T neck joint just right (left side of photo 1, photos 2 and 3).
No 4 - A Hauser style classical. Top is being worked down in the photos. Currently gluing in and working down braces (photo 4 and on island workbench in workshop photos).

Cheers Martin

[old_picker]

Hey martin thats lookin pretty good there mate. Notice the absence of machines in ur workshop or are they elsewhere. Also the neck angle on the guitar with the neck clamps on looks real steep. Is it just the angle of the pic?? Or is it pretty steep.

[kiwigeo]

Neck angle on the steel string is only 1.5 degrees...the pic makes it look alot more. The angle of the neck is set on a dovetail cutting jig that can be adjusted so that string height at the saddle is spot on. The jig is visible behind the island bench in picture 5. The body of the guitar sits on top of the jig and the long bar which is attached to the cradle holding the neck is adjusted until height at saddle is correct (about 3-5 mm). Once the bar is set the neck goes in the cradle under the jig and the dovetail gets routed. Will put up some better pics of the jig tomorrow.

Re machinery....there are 5 routers under the bench and a bandsaw in the garage next door.

[contrebasse]

I love looking at other workshops. Yours is really nice, modest and realistic. Nice to see hand planes an none of these newfangled thickness machines ... and to think you fit that, plus trees, on an oil rig! Amazing ;-)

BTW have a look here for some other luthier workshop ideas:

http://www.maestronet.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=4&threadid=315371&enterthread=y

[kiwigeo]

Hi Matthew,

The bass is looking good.

All rough thicknessing done with smoothing and scraper planes and final working of top done with cabinet scrapers. IMO tactile feedback from a top is important when working down same. The only machinery at present is a bandsaw, drill press and a bunch of routers.

I've considered a thickness sander for rough working tops but my current output would make the financial outlay uneconomical and its just a bunch more dust to deal with.

Cheers Martin

[kiwigeo]

Some photos of the jig I use for cutting dovetail M and T neck joints on my steel strings. Unfortunately I dont have a body handy handy to show how neck angle is set on the jig.

Photo 4: The jig. Consists of main frame and a pivoting cradle (with red toggle hold downs) on which the neck blank is clamped.
Photo 1: Aluminium bar which is attached to neck cradle. Body of guitar is snugged up against the base of the bar and bar is then adjusted until bar height above bridge position is desired distance (set with bolt visible at upper end of bar). I usually aim for a distance of 3-5mm depending on bridge thickness.
Photo 2: Cradle underneath with neck clamped to same.
Photo 3: Router with 10 degree dovetail cutter is run around a Stewmac dovetail template. I rough out first with a straight cutter to lessen work done by dovetail cutter.
Photo 4: Business end of the neck with dovetail cut. This is a reject neck used for demonstration purposes......heel cap normally wouldnt be glued on at this stage and heel wouldn't be shaped.

The jig is based on an original design by Charles Fox, modified by Woolson of the OLF forum. I normally cut the dovetail so neck sits about 5mm above the soundboard and then finish off trimming of the tenon by hand. One important thing to note is that the front face of the guitar body must be perfectly flat to get a good fit with the neck heel against same.

[kiwigeo]

Been busy working on the Hauser today.....gluing in and shaping braces. Hauser shaped most of the bracing in the lower bout area very low (circa 3.4mm) and with a trianglar cross section. In the upper bout area the upper transverse brace and patch are alot higher and tops of same have a more rounded profile.

Photo 1: fan braces glued in. Most of Hausers better known guitars had fairly standard Torres style bracing. The bridge patch is about 1.5mm thick and was standard fare on most of Hausers instruments.
Photo 2: Shaping fan braces. Hausers fan braces worked down to 3.5mm high and had a sharp triangular cross section.
Photo 3: Upper Transverse Brace and Upper Transverse "patch". Both alot higher than fan braces and the "patch" is actually a second upper bout brace more than a patch.
Photo 4: Fan braces finished.
Photo 5: Lower bout V braces glued in and ready for shaping. They'll end up about 3.5 mm high and with same cross section profile as fan braces. The two soundhole braces are also visible.....they'll end up only 1.5mm high and with a flat cross section

[kiwigeo]

Fretboard leveled and Paua fret markers glued in. 5 minute epoxy coloured up with ebony dust used for latter. Note that the ebony dust seems to speed up setting time of the epoxy so don't go and fill all the holes with epoxy before installing the markers....fill each hole and then stick the marker in.

[myguitar]

Howdy,

Beautiful work there Martin!

Love the sound hole rosette. How on earth do you keep that workshop so clean?

Fi :roll:

[bricks]

Hi kiwi,

I get the impression that some people on this site actually sell some of the guitars they make- I've just this week been indecently propositioned by a long time aquaintance to build a lefty electric and also an archtop electric for him aswell.

What are your thought's on this sort of setup? Im only planning on charging about $700-1000 bucks just to cover my costs and can't really see any problems, If you've heard any horror stories or have any advice let me know? nice shed too, just got mine sorted might post some pics in a few weeks once im sorted.

[kiwigeo]

Hi Bricks,

Guitar making for me is purely a hobby and a means of destressing from my job working as a Geologist on offshore oil rigs. My guitars don't get sold, they get 'loaned" to musician friends under the condition that the instruments get looked after and if they get desperate and have to sell the instrument then the cost of materials must be returned to me. If I was alot younger I might consider doing it as a job but Im not young and dont really have enough years left to bring myself up to a level of experience where I'd feel comfortable building for profit.

My hobby may seem like an extravagent luxury but its no different than the guy who spends thousands hotting up his Holden or the young bloke spending thousands on a set of mag wheels for a car worth only a few hundred dollars. The cost isnt an issue..the aim of the exercise is engrossing yourself in something that you totally enjoy and for me something totally different from what I do for a crust.

My workshop looks flash and it cost a few pennies but I figured as I get closer to retirement Ill be spending a large part of my day in there so I might as well make it as comfortable as possible.

Now onto your query about building guitars for your friend. Charging to cover materials is perfectly alright even if youre not a professional luthier. It takes me an average of 200 hours to build a guitar and thats without any fancy inlay work. Even if you charge Boy Scout Bob a job rates that still adds up to fair bit of loot so your friend is getting a very good deal. In a similar situation I'd make it clear to my friend that Im not a proffessional luthier and doing it more for the experience than the money. Id also make clear to my friend that the instruments may take a bit of time to build and that luthiery comes second to other things in my life (eg. SWMBO and the taxman!).

Cheers Martin

[kiwigeo]

Howdy,

Beautiful work there Martin!

Love the sound hole rosette. How on earth do you keep that workshop so clean?

Fi :roll:

The rosette is just a common garden rosette bought from Stewmac. I plan to make uop my own rosettes in the future but its alot of work.

The clean workshop? I was brought up in a household where if you didn't cleanup after yourself you'd have a a ropeable Mum on your hands. Dirty dishes dumped in the sink were sometimes dutifully dumped on one's bed! Seriously though the workshop is kept clean to keep dust down to a minimum and also so I can find stuff.

[kiwigeo]

Back in the workshop after 3 days off while attending Womadelaide here in Adelaide. All the braces are glued in and and shaped and today the butt block got glued in. Last week the neck got glued onto the top and both are now face down on the workboard where theyll stay untill the sides and back are on.

Pic 1: neck glued onto top.
Pic 2: Butt block glued in. Note Hauser's butt blocks were a bit thinner than the one Ive made here and he used spruce rather than mahogany. The Spanish foot is also a bit bigger than on a Hauser and I plan to shorten it before the sides go in.
Pic 3: Another view of the guitar face down on the workboard ready for the sides. The batten holds butt block steady until sides get glued in.

[kiwigeo]

More progress in the workshop today. Spent the morning bending up the Indian Rosewood sides for the Hauser classical and got them glued in. The rosewood is opportunity grade stock I bought from the US and it has a few knots and other blemishes. To minimise risk of splitting during bending I flooded knots and other weak points with gap filling super glue and didnt have too many problems.

In Photo 3 you'll see that Ive started gluing in the Tantellones that hold the top to the sides.

[contrebasse]

love to watch your guitars come together. Watching a guitar being built, to me, is like listening to another language. It's familiar, some bits I don't quite "get" ... like the blue strips in post #7 ...and its exotic.

[kiwigeo]

The blue strips...ancient secret luthier's trick Grasshopper. Actually its masking tape which I run along the side of the braces when Im shaping same to reduce damage to the spruce top from chisel or sandpaper.

Yes it is satisfying when you get to the assembly stage and the instrument starts to take form. That said there are some parts of construction which I hate...like gluing in the Tantellones which hold the top to the sides......it drives you nuts after a few hours, especially when the things start sticking to your fingers.

[contrebasse]

OK I see. I'll try that. i have a few gouge marks in my top after shaping the ends of the bassbar last night, even though i tried to be realllly careful. I can glue the chips back, but I'll try a few layers of masking tape in the future ...

[kiwigeo]

A piece of cardboard or a cabinet scraper is also handy for the same purpose. The Hauser was a bit tricky as the fan braces are a very low profile shaped right down to the soundboard. Make sure you use low tack masking tape (the 3M blue stuff is good) to reduce chances of tearing spruce top when lifting the tape off.

[contrebasse]

no chance of lifting spruce off. Mine's cedar :-)

[kiwigeo]

Okay here we have a classic case of a luthier not measuring twice and cutting once. I trimmed the upper harmonic brace a bit too short so ended up with a gap between end of the brace and the sides. I like to have the brace firmly butted against the sides so elected to replace the brace.

Pic 1: Cutting out the old brace with a 25mm paring chisel being careful not to dig same into the spruce top.
Pic 2: Old brace all gone.
Pic 3: New brace glued in on the go bar deck. Note Ive shaped ends of the brace before fitting as shaping the brace once its glued in would be difficult with sides installed.
Pic 4: Brace rough shaped and just needs a bit of work with the sandpaper. Note Tantallones which fix top to sides have all been glued in while waiting for the glue job on the new brace to set.

[kiwigeo]

Not alot going on in the workshop over last few days as weve had guests. In between entertaining same I managed to sneak out to the workshop and thickness and inlay the back for the Hauser and rough cut and shape back braces.

Pic 1: Final thicknessing of back plate. Around 0.100" grading to 0.080" at the rim where back meets with sides.
Pic 2: Back strip inlaid. A protective coat of shellac has been applied to stop colour bleeding from Rosewood onto white parts of the inlay. Inlay channel was cut with a 5mm straight cutter on the T5 router running against a straight edge. masking tape was added to edge of guide until channel was correct thickness. Channel is about 1mm deep.
Pic 3: Close up of tail end of inlay.
Pic 4: Back braces cut to length and being rough sanded to profile to end up with a 15' radius back.

[contrebasse]

Why do you think it is important that the braces butt up against the ribs? Is this standard practice how all guitars are made? On most basses there is an intentional gap of 2mm. Maybe for shrinkage/swelling, maybe to allow the plate a bit of freedom to vibrate at the edges.

[kiwigeo]

Why do you think it is important that the braces butt up against the ribs? Is this standard practice how all guitars are made? On most basses there is an intentional gap of 2mm. Maybe for shrinkage/swelling, maybe to allow the plate a bit of freedom to vibrate at the edges.

Hi Matthew,

As far as I can gather the braces should butt against the side on a guitar mainly for strength....you want to have as much of the brace as possible sitting on the lining.

As for allowing for movement of the top/back its probably more of an issue on a bass as there's alot more surface area involved and not as much bracing as on a guitar.

Allowing the top more freedom to vibrate at the edges....this is why most builders scallop the ends of braces down to a minimum of about 2mm. I also tend to thin my tops and backs around the periphery to free up the plate. In the case of the back I only thin towards the sides around the lower bout as you want mainly the lower bout pumping with the top not both lower and upper bouts.

Cheers Martin

[kiwigeo]

Started out the day working on a stonewall but got sick of same after 20 minutes and retreated to the workshop to work on the Hauser. First job today was putting in the spruce strip that reinforces the back joint.

Pic 1: masking tape laid down as a guide for spruce reinforcing strip.
Pic 2: strip glued in on Go bar deck.
Pic 3: Rough shaping strip with the Kunz plane...not a very nice plane but its ok for rough shaping.
Pic 4: Final shaping with a sanding stick.

[kiwigeo]

Next job is shaping and gluing in back braces. The back when fitted will have a 15' radius.

Pic 1: shaping braces on the 15" radius dish.
Pic 2: I give the rosewood a quick wipe with acetone to get rid of some of the oil. Probably not necessary with modern AR glues but I do it anyway.
Pic 3: marking cuts in back reinforcing strip using brace as a guide.
Pic 4: Chiseling out strip to fit back brace.
Pic 5: Back braces glued up on the Go bar deck.

[contrebasse]

Who's the photographer these days?? :)

[kiwigeo]

Mister Tripod is taking the photos.

[kiwigeo]

Here's the kerfing for the back being glued in. The cute little clamps are special kerfing clamps made by John Watkins.

[Jackspira]

Mr tripod is doing a very fine job, and those little clamps look great! I don't use kerfing much, but when I have, I have found clamping it rather tricky, they look neat.
Jack

[kiwigeo]

The clamps in their original form were a bit weak so John W supplied extra rubber bands which when fitted to the clamps improve clamping power markedly. The beauty of these clamps is theyre profiled to fit the kerfed lining and when pushed home they allow lining up of the top of the lining with the top of the sides.

Before using the Watkins clamps I was using the cheap bulldog style clamps available from Bunnings and Mitre 10 and they do an ok job.

[contrebasse]

I used heavy duty metal paperclips, the triangular kind made of black spring steel with flip-back handles. they work well too.

[bricks]

You seem to be right on the wicket with your braces Kiwi-

Just thought Id pose a question?
- I do know that if the braces are not there, then the top ripps off in a nasty fashion-

But would there be any benefit sound wise if you could make an accoustic guitar with no bracing ( especially on the top face). In my mind the top should be able to flew and 'bellow' much more than with a brace restricting it's movement. Therefore the reasonance and overall fullness of the guitar should increase. ???

Have you ever tried to move/ alter or remove the bracing before??

[gratay]

I used heavy duty metal paperclips, the triangular kind made of black spring steel with flip-back handles. they work well too.

I tried the clothes peg with rubber band trick that most people seem to do but I didn't like it so much so went out and bought some of those clips as well......I found the 25mm clips to work great but still have to use some pegs on tighter curves because the clips we're to wide.....
but around the waste i just used small spring clamps to get it seated at the bottom of the kerfing..

[kiwigeo]

Have you ever tried to move/ alter or remove the bracing before??

Nope and I dont have any plans to do so. Building an acoustic top is a playoff between a top that is strong enough not to buckle under string tension but not so thick that it doesn't properly transmit the string vibrations from the bridge to the top and in turn move the air inside the box. Without braces the top would have to be so thick it would hardly vibrate and the instrument would sound dead. Make the top thin enough to vibrate nicely but without bracing and the top would buckle.

[kiwigeo]

Camera battery went flat during final shaping of back braces so no pics of same. Here are some pics of the back being glued in and trimming the back and top.

Pic 1: back glued in and roped up with dressmakers bias binding tape.
Pic 2: The "box closed up" and out of the workboard.
Pic 3: trimming top around neck area where router bit cant reach. Back gets same treatment.
Pic 4: trimming the back and top flush with sides. I use a 10mm flush cut cutter with bearing on the bottom.

[bricks]

Without braces the top would have to be so thick it would hardly vibrate and the instrument would sound dead. Make the top thin enough to vibrate nicely but without bracing and the top would buckle.

If this problem could be overcome would it be worth spending 2-300 hours building a prototype, or do you believe the gains acheived would be so minimal as to void the effort involved.

I have a design Idea which I am keeping close to my chest until, I finish my les paul and fix up the old classical, I have hours of design time on my hands and I think I can keep the top as thin as I like and also have only one brace under the top of the guitar.

PS.. I apologize for cluttering your thread with other non-relevant issues of mine. last one I promise.

[kiwigeo]

Next job...routing out channels in top and back for binding and purfling. I use a Stewmac router bit and matching bearing set. Before routing I run over the top and back with a Sneider Gramil to aid in obtaining a cleaner cut.

Pic 1: running around the cut with a Schneider gramil
Pic 2: routing the binding and then the purfling channels using Stewmac binding cutter/bearing kit.
Pic 3: ready for the butt strip to go in. Note the high tech guitar vise.

[contrebasse]

golly what did they do before routers??

I like the pen markings on your router. Safety first.

I have the word "fingers" written in strategic places on my triton and on my bandsaw table ...

Now - about this picture ...

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=42755

http://www.christojeanneclaude.net/sharedMedia/EarlyWorks/RomanWallW.jpg

[kiwigeo]

I have a design Idea which I am keeping close to my chest until, I finish my les paul and fix up the old classical, I have hours of design time on my hands and I think I can keep the top as thin as I like and also have only one brace under the top of the guitar.

PS.. I apologize for cluttering your thread with other non-relevant issues of mine. last one I promise.

No apologies necessary Bricks, you're thinking like a luthier.

Just having one brace under your top and achieving the aims of having bracing is going to be a difficult call. Apart from strengthening the top the braces also serve to maintain the arch that many makers put into their tops. On my classicals the arch is mainly in the lower bout reaching a peak under the bridge area. I put a 25 to 30' radius curve in my lower harmonic bar to hold the arch. On my steel strings the arch is mainly in the waist to upper bout area and all my transverse bracing as well as the cross brace are curved to hold the arch. If youre building flattop then you dont have to worry about that challenge but you still have the problem of the lower bout wanting to pull up into an arch due to string tension on the bridge. Its not just a matter of making the top thinner around the bridge area.....most of the lower bout has to be reinforced in some way. On a classical its usually done with fan braces and on a steel string you have the lower section of your X brace plus tonebars.

With Sitka spruce my tops get down to about 2mm thick depending on each individual top. I stop thicknessing the top once it reaches a certain level of stiffness. Theres no way the top could not deform and collapse under normal string tension.

The development of the modern guitar has occured over quite a long period of time and many makers have experimented with bracing......what you see today are bracing patterns that incorporate the minimum amount of bracing while still maintaining the structural integrity of the top.

Good luck with your experiemtns though...if you manage to design a workable braceless top youll be an instant millionaire and your name will go down in history along with Torres and Stradivarius.

[contrebasse]

What's the difference between a brace and a tonebar?

[kiwigeo]

A tone bar is what I call the brace(s) running across lower bout of a steel string between one leg of the X brace to periphery of the top. I generally have two of them on my steel strings. See attached pic.

[kiwigeo]

Another busy day in the workshop. Got the back and top binding/purflings glued up and next job will be gluing on the heel cap.

Pic 1: gluing in bindings and purflings. I usually glue in both sides of top or back starting from waist but this time I decided to try working from the butt end and work towards the neck one side at a time. Takes alot longer but it allows a neater job on the joining of the bindings at the butt end of the guitar.

Pic 2: bindings done.

Pic 3: rough trimming bindings with cabinet scraper.

Pic 4: preparation for gluing on of heel cap. The cap is a piece of the back saved after trimming same to size. The end of the scrap will be trimmed by an amount equal to binding/purfling thickness so back and heel cap grain appear continuous.

[kiwigeo]

Todays job was working up the ebony fretboard and getting same glued on the neck.

Pic 1: Planing ebony fretboard blank. This one came from Chris at GuitarAustralia. It was a bit bowed because I hadnt stacked it properly but a bit of work with the Veritas smoother got it flat again.

Pic 2: marking up fret slot positions. My classicals are built using a 650mm scale.

Pic 3: Cutting fret slots with Stewmac fret saw and fret cutting jig.

Pic 4: Planing fretboard to final profile.

Pic 5: Fretsawing soundhole end of fretboard.

[kiwigeo]

And the rest of the pics:

Pic 1: Drilling 1.5m diameter holes at 1st and 11th frets for fretboard location pins. These prevent fretboard moving while glue is setting. I use 1.25mm brads with the heads nipped off.

Pic 2: Brad going in.

Pic 3: Fretboard glued and clamped up. I use PVA glue and plenty of clamps. Theres a custom made caul under the upper bout of the soundboard to allow secure clamping of the fretboard in this area. The same caul will be used when hammering in frets in this area.

[oz tradie]

This is great stuff Martin.
Very concise , explained pics and all.
I'm plucking up the courage for an acoustic build but want to know and
see all the facts first.

And for me , your pics. work very well as a learning tool.

I've built an electric out of aussie native timbers, but not an acoustic.
I should probably post the pics........but......shyness takes hold.

cheers, Stu

[kiwigeo]

Stu,

You should definitely post the pics of your electric.

[Malibu]

You should definitely post the pics of your electric.

I agree :D

Martin, I used some piano wire on the archtop in the same way you used the brads, but I found it still moved a little and I had a hell of a job trying to get it all back into position. I put it down to an oversized hole, but maybe it was the piano wire bending... ever had any trouble like that on your fingerboards?

[kiwigeo]

Malibu,

No I havent had any problems with the brads. The brads are readily available at my local Mitre 10 as are the drill bits.

If youre having trouble with the fretboard moving with two location pins then you can always put in a third pin....say at the 5th or 7th fret.

[RGM]

Stu,

You should definitely post the pics of your electric.


+1

[kiwigeo]

Fretboard clamps came off this morning and all looks ok apart from a few little chips around soundhole....nothing some epoxy and ebony dust wont fix.

Pic 1: fretboard clamps off after glue up job.

Pic 2: final shaping of end of fretboard flush with soundhole. NOTE: dont use a rasp on ebony...only a fine file or fine sandpaper.....the stuff chips like buggery. I use 120 grit wrapped around a 30mm dowel off the workboard. Some of you will notice the boo boo..the 19th fret should normally be split around the hole but because the sound hole somehow got cut a fraction too far bridgewards Ive ended up with a complete 19th fret. Wont effect the playability of the instrument but will annoy the purists like myself.

Pic 3: rough shaping neck with spokeshave.....$15 from an antique shop in New Zealand. I shape the neck using facets marked in pencil.

Pic 4: shaping around headstock. This is a job that usually causes me grief but this time no problems. Makes up for the stuff up on the soundhole end of the fretboard. Getting this end of the neck is largely a matter of working the wood until the shape looks and feels right. I thin the neck from about the 2nd fret to the headstock but exact profile depends on the headstock shape and other factors.

Pic 5: final shaping of neck using 120 grit sand paper. To get a nice even shape work the sandpaper shoe shine style.

[Strungout]

Hi Martin.

I Love this post,It almost feels like I am building this guitar !

I see that you have glued the fretboard on ,then fit the frets.

That is the way I did my electrics,but the Stewmac 000 kit I am building,they do it the other way - IE: Cut the fretboard ,fit the frets then glue it to the neck.....

I can see some problems with this way, getting the neck and fretboard to line up,but I was wondering what your (or anybody else's) thoughts might be..

Thanks

Greg

[old_picker]

you need to position the board with brads to prevent slippage when clamping
the brads go through the fret slots
unless the board in the stewmac method is stabilised some other way
also it would be easier to trim the board or neck to size and sand it all down nice without the frets ripping the sandpaper to shreds
to me putting down the frets would be last job before leveling and crowning
next job is finish

[kiwigeo]

Ray has pretty much voiced my reasons for fretting up after gluing in the fretboard. Pros and cons of course. The advantage of fretting up before gluing on the fretboard is it's easier to knock in the upper frets....you don't have to worry about cauls and bags of leadshot to absorb the hammer blows.

[kiwigeo]

Not alot of time spent in the shop today but managed to sneak in for an hour in between domestic chores and do a fret job on the classical.

Pic 1: filing fret slots with triangular file. This reduces risk of fretboard tear out should the fret have to be pulled.

Pic 2: Fret has been hammered in (camera out of focus during same...sorry) and ends are nipped of using special fret nippers. Note cabinet scrapers placed on soundboard to protect same from scratching with nippers.

NOTES: prior to knocking in the fret I wick a bit of water into the slot with an eyedropper to cause the ebony to expand a bit. I also run a thin bead of AR glue along the tang of the fret. Both actions help ensure the fret stays in the slot. There are different schools of thought on knocking a fret in...I start in the middle of the fret and then work out to the sides. Others work from one end to the other. Others press their frets in.

Pic 3: Caul going in prior to knocking in frets 12 to 19.

Pic 4: Knocking in upper frets.

Pic 3: Out of sequence but prior to fret going in I straighten same to reduce chances of fret springing up during knock in.

[kiwigeo]

The last photo in this sequence. The frets all in and ready for dressing.

[oz tradie]

So, Martin, Have you ever entertained the thought of producing an illustrated 'How to' book on acoustics ? Great pics.

What's everyone's take on fretting ? Hammer or press ?

I used a press on mine. Just wondering the what's and wherefores.

Cheers, Stu

[kiwigeo]

A book on building guitars?? I'm thinking more of a Treatise on how NOT to build guitars.

I keep a detailed diary and take lots of photos so maybe one day when I'm too old and doddery to build guitars I'll put together something.

Hammers versus press....I prefer a hammer. If the guitar's been causing you grief then come fret time you can take out your frustrations on the instrument with the fret hammer. A press is probably a gentler way to install frets and there's less chance of braces coming loose when working in the upper bout area.

[zenobia]

I agree :D

Martin, I used some piano wire on the archtop in the same way you used the brads, but I found it still moved a little and I had a hell of a job trying to get it all back into position. I put it down to an oversized hole, but maybe it was the piano wire bending... ever had any trouble like that on your fingerboards?

For this I use a staple gun. Blast a few into each end of the neck but i only want one side of the staple. The I just cut it off the bit i want o keep with my fret snipers leaving about 1mm proud of the surface and pull the other bit out. Glue up, take your time to align the fretboard and push it down on the staples. Works for me and doesn't slide around.
Dom

[contrebasse]

fretboard location pins. These prevent fretboard moving while glue is setting. I use 1.25mm brads with the heads nipped off.

I'd hate to be the guy who ruins his plane when replacing your fingerboard in 100 years time! :doh:

I'm glad I don't have to worry about frets. Just a compound camber ...

Lovely to watch this taking shape. I hope you're going to post sound samples at the end!

[kiwigeo]

Matthew,

Youll notice in the photo the pins are actually protruding above the fretboard This is so they can be easily gripped with pliers and yanked out once the fretboard is glued in. The clamping caul has holes to clear the pins.

[contrebasse]

Aaah no I didn't notice in the pic. Good man.

I thought you were using a more solid version of the staplegun/snip/press method that leaves bits of metal in the join to welcome future repairmen! I should have known better ...
Matthew

[kiwigeo]

No guitar building in the shop for next few days..busy dealing with a flood of tonewood that has arrived from various locations. Got to get the stuff properly stacked and stickered before going off to work next week.

[kiwigeo]

Right..ok...its friday the 13th so its to be expected that something catastrophic should happen in the workshop. The Hauser Classical has a back problem which requires major surgery. For some unknown reason the back of the instrument has lost its 15' radius curve and now has developed a noticeable concave profile about midships. A loose back strut was the obvious suspect but the struts are all intact. I worked the back a bit thinner than backs on previous instruments so maybe that has something to do with it. Anyway after much thought I have decided to remove the back and replace same. Many would say the instrument will still sound okay with its dodgey back but to me it just doesnt look right so off it comes.

Friday the 13th wasnt all bad...I finally got instrument No 2 finished and strung up and once its had a week for the French Polish to harden it will be going to its new owner...a bass player in an all girl lesbian rock band. Pic attached of the finished beast.

[Jackspira]

Thats one rockin classical martin, love the contrast between the rosewood and the spruce.
I'm about to start a Hauser design myself, I've never done one so would love to know what bits you think worked and what bits you'd do differently.
I reckon the back sink is coz the humidity had dropped below the level at which the thing was glued together. I'm with you for changing it too! I'm sure its quite stable and will work fine as it is, but i reckon if somethings not quite right like that, and its bugging you, and you go back and fix it even though it'll take hours, then thats how you get good! takes it too a next level
Jack

[kiwigeo]

Hi Jack,

Humidity is a possible cause but the workshop is climate controlled to minimise risk of these sort of problems. I'll go a bit thicker with the back this time around or go to same thickness but whack in a fourth back brace.

Cheers Martin

[Jackspira]

You're probably right martin, I must admit i have a tendency to blame humidty changes for everything! Its always been such an issue for me.. but I doubt theres much risk of too much moisture in South Australia these days! And if you're running a dehmidifier anyway.
Thinking about what you said about the back being a bit light, do you think its possible that the normal slight distortion in the body that comes with the string tension has changed the alighnment of the sides/ back enough to do it?

[Jackspira]

although.. I cant help going back to the humitity thing! Might it be possible that its gone the other way a bit, meaning it was a bit too dry when glued up and the expansion in the back now that its out in the world has gone a tad too far?
Forgive me if i seem to be over analysing it! I get similar things happen too, I generally blame myself for not fitting it well enough in the first place, but theres still a bit of alchemy involved it seems..
Jack

[kiwigeo]

All comments most welcome Jack. You've built alot more instruments than I have and have no doubt run into the same hiccups that Im having.

Bindings and purflings have been routed out and Im now in the process of lifting the back off the linings. So far its all coming off in one piece.

Cheers Martin

[kiwigeo]

Guitar No 3, a steel string got a fret job on friday. Pics attached.

[kiwigeo]

Its been raining for the last 3 days here in Adelaide so no ourdoor domestics going on. have managaned to get stuck into the french polishing on No 3 (steel string) and No 4 (Classical). Pics 1 and 2 are of the classical and pic 3 is the steel string. Both guitars are getting body sessions using 1.5 lb cut blonde shellac. The muneca is gauze with used T shirt material wrapped around.

[contrebasse]

That guitar looks good enough to eat!

I have found that french polishing when its raining is much harder. Need a dry warm day to get good results. But I suppose you have a nice climatised shed?

I'm afraid I don't think I have the guts to tackle french polishing on my bass.
I'd love to, but its just too big. But i could be convinced ...

[kiwigeo]

Hi Matthew,

Yep the workshop is held at a steady 18-20 deg C and humidity at around 40%. Its also ideal temperature for drinking red wine :D

I havent had a chance to check in to the website and get an update on progress with your bass. I trust its all going well.

Cheers Martin

[oz tradie]

That's looking sensational, Martin. It's very impressive.
I don't know much about french polishing techniques, but as soon as I
prise the spraygun out of my hands, I'll do some research and give it an
allmighty crack. What's the worse that could happen..........
apart from total failure:doh:

cheers, Stu

[kiwigeo]

Stu,

The great thing about French Polishing is...if it all turns out to be a total catastrophe you can simply whip out some wet and dry and sand it all off and start again. Dont ask me how I know :D

[kiwigeo]

Well, I got a few body coats on the classical and then after looking at the back of the guitar under natural light decided I wasnt 100% happy with the grain fill job. Soooooo......out with the 120 grit sandpaper and off came the shellac. I then applied one further coat of full strength Z-poxy with a credit card and sanded same back to bare wood after 12 hours. After applying a couple of wash coats of 1.5lb cut shellac the pores appear to be filled alot better and its now full steam ahead on the French Polish job.

[kiwigeo]

Body coats are now done on both the steel string and classical. Ive done about 5 sessions of 5 coats of 1.5lb cut shellac with spiriting off sessions in between and sanding back with 1200 grit W and D if necessary. The glaze coats will have to wait until I get back from work in a few weeks time.

[gratay]

martin, they are really scrubbing up a treat...or should i say rubbing..
nice work

[contrebasse]

Yum!

[dpdejohn]

Some photos of the jig I use for cutting dovetail M and T neck joints on my steel strings. Unfortunately I dont have a body handy handy to show how neck angle is set on the jig.

Photo 4: The jig. Consists of main frame and a pivoting cradle (with red toggle hold downs) on which the neck blank is clamped.
Photo 1: Aluminium bar which is attached to neck cradle. Body of guitar is snugged up against the base of the bar and bar is then adjusted until bar height above bridge position is desired distance (set with bolt visible at upper end of bar). I usually aim for a distance of 3-5mm depending on bridge thickness.
Photo 2: Cradle underneath with neck clamped to same.
Photo 3: Router with 10 degree dovetail cutter is run around a Stewmac dovetail template. I rough out first with a straight cutter to lessen work done by dovetail cutter.
Photo 4: Business end of the neck with dovetail cut. This is a reject neck used for demonstration purposes......heel cap normally wouldnt be glued on at this stage and heel wouldn't be shaped.

The jig is based on an original design by Charles Fox, modified by Woolson of the OLF forum. I normally cut the dovetail so neck sits about 5mm above the soundboard and then finish off trimming of the tenon by hand. One important thing to note is that the front face of the guitar body must be perfectly flat to get a good fit with the neck heel against same.
Hello,
Great Jig! Would you happen to have plans for building this jig or know where I could find them. I am a hobby builder, just finished my first guitar but I want to build my kids each a guitar and I could use this jig to help. Thank you so much.
Darrin

[kiwigeo]

Hello,
Great Jig! Would you happen to have plans for building this jig or know where I could find them. I am a hobby builder, just finished my first guitar but I want to build my kids each a guitar and I could use this jig to help. Thank you so much.
Darrin

Hi Darrin,

I built this jig using photos in the old LMI catalogue/handbook (no longer in print). When I get a chance Ill measure up the jig and jot up some rough drawings for you.

Cheers Martin

[dpdejohn]

Thank you very much. I look forward to being part of this forum.
Darrin