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greensabbath
4th March 2007, 06:37 PM
Hey everyone, firstly I wanted to say how great it is that this forum was created since I have a love for Japanese tools. Secondly, I've been having a problem with my Mitsukawa 240mm cross-cut dozuki and I wanted to see what you guys think.

I bought the saw a while ago along with a rip saw of the same size to replace my Z saw that had a broken tooth. I immediately noticed the difference in the finish of the two saws and I also noticed how much less the kerf was.

With my Mitsukawa, I can't seem to make a straight cut to save my life. Its not just angled either, the cut usually ends up curved. This is cutting through Hard Maple by the way. Not being one to blame the tool, especially this tool, I always thought it was my technique which still needs work anyway but today i noticed that the saw back seemed a little loose and I was wondering if this might be the problem?

I'd greatly appreciate any advice you guys could offer, thank you.

soatoz
4th March 2007, 06:52 PM
Hello,

It's hard to be sure what the problem is, unless I see the tool itself and how you are sawing. I think I know why, but just in case, can I first ask you couple of questions to understand the situation a bit more? Then I might be certain of what's going on.

1. What is the height and thickness of your douzki?
2. Which Z saw (the length, height and thickness, or the model name) are you comparing it with?
3. How thick and wide is the maple board you are cutting?

Thank you

greensabbath
5th March 2007, 06:25 AM
Thank you for responding so quickly. To answer your questions:

1. I'm not sure of the thickness but this is the saw:
http://www.hidatool.com/woodpage/saws/mcrossdozuki.html
Its the very bottom one. The height is 60mm

2. The Z saw has blade length: 240mm, thickness: .12 inches, 60mm

3. The maple piece is only about 3/8 inch by 1 1/2 inches. The weird thing is, close to the edge of the piece, about 1/8 inch or so, the saw cuts perfectly straight, but farther in, like a half inch, it gets really hard to make it straight and it usually ends up curved.

Thanks again for all of your help.

soatoz
5th March 2007, 01:25 PM
1. I'm not sure of the thickness but this is the saw:
http://www.hidatool.com/woodpage/saws/mcrossdozuki.html
Its the very bottom one. The height is 60mm

Wow, White steel #1 saw!! Couldn't get any better!
Can I ask you one thing out of my interest? If the saw needs retoothing, are you going to send it back to Japan, or this shop can do it for you??


3. The maple piece is only about 3/8 inch by 1 1/2 inches.

No problem here...


The weird thing is, close to the edge of the piece, about 1/8 inch or so, the saw cuts perfectly straight,

Yeah, this is usual. If there is any defect in the saw, it shows after the body of the saw gets binded between the cut. Uneven tooth or very slightly bent body is usually the case.


but farther in, like a half inch, it gets really hard to make it straight and it usually ends up curved.

Huuum, does it curve to the same way everytime? If it does it should be the saw's defect, and you might want to contact the shop and ask. You were saying that the back is a bit loose? That might be causing it...


Thanks again for all of your help.

No worries. My pleasure.

I still can't be sure of what the cause is, but since dozukis are very thin, I think it takes a bit of skill to make an absolutely straight cut. Your Z saw is a bit thicker I suppose, and the thickness is uniform throughout the blade and that makes it even thicker in the centre of the blade compared to Mitsukawa saw which has a slight hollow to reduce the friction. This little difference makes huge difference actually.

If it's NOT the saw's fault, I think it would help to see HOW you are cutting the material. If you can send me photos showing step by step, how you are cutting and how it gets curved, I might be able to see if it's the saw's fault or not. But then again, I might not. so it might be waste of your time to take those photos and have them uploaded here. If it's easier for you to just send me an email with the photos attatched, you can send me your address through personal message, and I'll get back to you.

Sorry I can't be of your help too much...

Skew ChiDAMN!!
5th March 2007, 04:44 PM
I've been watching this thread with interest, not because I have the same problem but because I'm a recent convert to pull-saws and it's always nice to be clued up on possible problems. :wink:


1. I'm not sure of the thickness but this is the saw:
http://www.hidatool.com/woodpage/saws/mcrossdozuki.html
Its the very bottom one. The height is 60mm

Now this is an interesting link... I can see myself buying the first saw pictured in the near future. :2tsup: Thanks!

One of my concerns is the "disposable" nature of japanese saws... not the easiest thing in the world to resharpen. For me it works out cheaper to simply buy a new one. :( And as most Aussie woods are hardwoods, well... it takes the edge off fast. But a Dozuki designed for hardwoods that's easily sharpened with a file? You li'l beauty! :D

greensabbath
5th March 2007, 04:56 PM
Thanks very much again. I actually didn't buy the saw from there. I bought it from here:
http://www.misugidesigns.com/aboutUs.html The lady who owns the company, Kayoko, is very nice and helpful so I'll contact her and see what she says too.

I actually bought another saw from her recently which will put most to shame. Miyano dai Endo is making a ryoba saw for me at the moment. This guy: http://www.misugidesigns.com/saws.html That saw should be amazing but I don't plan on using it until I am ready.

The cut usually goes to the right, even if the cut looks like it was started perfectly which is quite frustrating.

I actually upload pictures all the time so that wouldn't be a problem. I'll try to get some and post them. It would really be nice to have someone experienced help me and my form. I could actually take a video and host it myself and put it on here so you could see everything I am doing right or wrong.

Thanks again.


I've been watching this thread with interest, not because I have the same problem but because I'm a recent convert to pull-saws and it's always nice to be clued up on possible problems. :wink:



Now this is an interesting link... I can see myself buying the first saw pictured in the near future. :2tsup: Thanks!

One of my concerns is the "disposable" nature of japanese saws... not the easiest thing in the world to resharpen. For me it works out cheaper to simply buy a new one. :( And as most Aussie woods are hardwoods, well... it takes the edge off fast. But a Dozuki designed for hardwoods that's easily sharpened with a file? You li'l beauty! :D


I love these saws. I actually bought an Adria dovetail saw at the same time my ex gave me the Z saw. Amazingly, the Adria remains unused. You can feel the quality of the Mitsukawas though compared with the Z. One reason I got for the more expensive saws is i'd really like to collect them rather than just use them since they are works of art in their own right.

soatoz
6th March 2007, 12:38 PM
Hi,

Before you take photos, could you try one thing? Or have you already tried this?

1. Expect that the cut will start to fall off the line, so cut very slowly, and when it does even slightly, try to bring it back by pulling the handle to the other direction bending the saw blade. Even though the skilled users saw fairly quickly they are doing this adjustment.

2. Also, if you can cut straight on one side of the board, but when you flip the board over it isn't, then you might need to do something a bit complicated. You cut alternatively from both size of the board, paying attention to 1. (This is very usuful technique for rip cutting.)

The point is that you can't expect the saw to cut straight just by pulling the saw straight. Did you know this? You need to do all the adjustments to make it straight during the sawing process. This is because the wood isn't even, and especially rock maple has a strong warping power, so as you cut it starts to warp immediately trying to adjust to the new tension created by the cut.

I don't know if any of this is new to you, but if it is you might be able to fix the issue.:)