New spokeshave

[old_picker]

Just a quickie on purchasing a new spokeshave for carving necks.
I bought a record A151 last week and am wondering whether I should have sprung for the $50 and got the veritas low angle.

I can prolly swap it or would I use both??

[kiwigeo]

Quality of the Veritas better than the Record...IMO if youve got the money get the Veritas. Most of the planes in shop are Veritas and theyre great planes.

[Buzzer]

I think Timbecon have Veritas spokeshaves on special at the moment. Check ther website. :)

[derekcohen]

The question that must be answered first is what you want to do with it - flat/gentle curves, round, or sharp inside curves?

For flat: If you want a cheapish, used spokeshave, then look out for a Stanley #53. These have adjustable mouths. Can be difficult to find, tho'.

The Veritas LA spokeshave is excellent and versatile - but it does have a bit of a learning curve and is better suited to end grain and less demanding timber.

There are the three Veritas spokeshaves that are based on the Stanley 151 range, and I have heard really great things about them, that they are as good as the LN but about a third of the price - not used them however.

I am presently in the process of writing up a review of the HNT Gordon flat and round spokeshaves. These are exceptional! Easy to use and leave a superior finish.

Personally I would avoid the Stanley 151 (I have one) - the performance is relatively poor and is frustrating to use.

For sharp curves: the HNT Gordon is an excellent user. The Stanley 51 is a pig.

For rounds: Check out the Veritas for new, or the Stanley 55 for vintage.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[old_picker]

The question that must be answered first is what you want to do with it - flat/gentle curves, round, or sharp inside curves?
Regards from Perth
Derek

Carving the backs of guitar necks is the job

[kiwigeo]

I cant add to Derek's advice.....hes a man who's sharp on anything sharp :D

[Harry72]

Probably need 2 shaves for neck work, 1 flat and one convex for working a round the head stock and butt(what ever they are called?).

[kiwigeo]

Flat spoke shave best for rough shaping neck and then I go to a Dragon rasp followed by sandpaper.

[Jackspira]

I agree with Martin, keeping control of those convex spoke shaves takes more skill than I've got, but the flat ones are great! I find a chisel a bit faster than a rasp for the curvy bits, but a rasp is good, especially on the two way grain mahogany
Jack

[kiwigeo]

Probably need 2 shaves for neck work, 1 flat and one convex for working a round the head stock and butt(what ever they are called?).

Around the headstock I work with a chisel/violin knife and Dragon rasp. Around the heel block I cut the primary facets with a chisel (25mm butt chisel) and then switch to the Dragon rasp followed by 120 grit sandpaper wrapped around an eraser.

My spokeshaves are cheap second hand jobs I picked up in an antique shop in Wellington, New Zealand for $15 each.

When working the neck with sandpaper take a couple of feet of the stuff and work it shoe shine fashion up and down the neck....it nicely rounds off the sharp edges left by the flat spokeshave.

[old_picker]

umm derek...not sure which veritas you are recomending

also what is a dragon rasp??

[journeyman Mick]

..............also what is a dragon rasp??

Your mother-in-law's tongue?:o

Mick

[kiwigeo]

umm derek...not sure which veritas you are recomending

also what is a dragon rasp??

A handmade Chinese rasp with random teeth.....available in various sizes from Stewmac. I have two 10 inch rasps...one fine and one coarse. Perfect for neck work.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Files/Dragon_Hand-cut_Rasps.html

Note, theyre not the best for working on machine slots on classicals....use a flat file or sanding stick for this sort of work.

[zenobia]

I used to use the convex spoke shaves on the inside curve of the wooden stringers while shaping surfboards and love them. A very intimate tool. In the 1990s the trend was to do flip noses like a persian slipper so the curves were quite tight and surrounded by very thin fragile foam and spoke shave were the only way to get a clean cut.

I found the trick to using them was to move your wrists in a smooth arc as if the tool was swinging on the end a pendulum. I have been using them on necks and find them quicker then rasps for roughing out but the rasps are better for getting the final shapes and then stripps of sand paper like a shoe shiner for finishing.
Cheers
Dom

[old_picker]

found a round face irwin record at bunnies for $30....it matches the flat face i bought at carbatec last week so i guess that will do me.

maybe they will show me what I missed not buying veritas.....:oo:

[derekcohen]

found a round face irwin record at bunnies for $30....it matches the flat face i bought at carbatec last week so i guess that will do me.

maybe they will show me what I missed not buying veritas.....

I would say "don't do it!!!" :no: , but it is probably too late. This spokeshave will frustrate you with its chatter and poor performance. :~ It is a clone of the Stanley #151 and #51 R. :?

Let us know how you get along. I am willing to risk eating my hat.:o

Regards from Perth

Derek

[old_picker]

I would say "don't do it!!!" :no: , but it is probably too late. This spokeshave will frustrate you with its chatter and poor performance. :~ It is a clone of the Stanley #151 and #51 R. :?
Let us know how you get along. I am willing to risk eating my hat.:o
Regards from Perth
Derek

umm yeah too late - they look like the ones we used at tech when i was a kid
I also bought a convex. they will be fine for rough shaping necks i am hoping

I will prolly buy top shelf later but now i just need basic tools to show me the way
I doubt you will eating yer hat

[old_picker]

Well Derek you were right about the record round base. I guess I wasted $30 but now i know. I tried it straight out of the pack and it chattered and I couldnt get it to cut at all. With a keen edge I reckon I can get it to work with a bit of practice.

The record flat face cuts nice though and i am not sorry i got that one, The little kunz convex also shows promise. It seems to be very tricky to set the blade right. I tried em both on a jarra garden stake straight out of the pack:2tsup::2tsup:

I am at a loss however to know how to sharpebn the iron on the kunz :?:?:?:?

[gratay]

I am interested in what the Kunz spokshaves are like ....I looked at them in carbatec and they certainly are the right price ?

cheers Grant

[kiwigeo]

The Kunz planes I've looked at and tried are pretty average. They certainly dont match the Veritas in terms of quality.

[derekcohen]

Don't fuss with setting the blade "just right". In fact, deliberately set it at a slight skew. This way one side of the spokeshave will cut deep and full for hogging, and the other side will be very fine for a finishing cut. Somewhere in between will be where you do most of the work.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[old_picker]

I am interested in what the Kunz spokshaves are like ....I looked at them in carbatec and they certainly are the right price ?

cheers Grant
Its a bit of a fiddle cos its concave [not convex as i earlier said] and no setting screws. Just a screw to hold the frog in place. Overall it feels good to the hand and is pretty solid. I would say equal to the record in quality. Its no fine art tool but for the money I dont feel as though I got a bad deal. Obviously I've only used it for a few minutes. As kiwigeo says it aint no veritas but hey for the money believe me it will do me as a concave spokeshave.

I would look at kunz stuff myself a bit more seriously now. The kunz scraper plane has got me intrigued.
shown here above the veritas cabinet scraper which I use and is a great tool

http://www.woodcraft.com/images/family/web574big.jpg

[derekcohen]

Buy Kunz spokeshaves (and planes) at your own peril. Generally the quality is quite poor. You would be much better off with a vintage Stanley - better quality by far and cheaper.

Interestingly, James Krenov would recommend his students buy Kunz spokeshaves, especially the adjustable #53, but these would then be subjected to a LOT of tuning.

The Kunz #112 (large scraper plane, above) is an unknown quantity to me, but I have grave reservations as this one looks "cheap" (I do have a vintage Stanley #112 for comparison). On the other hand, I have a Kunz #80 scraper plane and this is fine (hard to go wrong with such a simple tool).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[gratay]

Well I might just stay away from the Kunz spokshaves then......sounds like they might live up to their name!!
thanks Grant

[jmk89]

Well I might just stay away from the Kunz spokshaves then......sounds like they might live up to their name!!
thanks Grant

Grant

You have said what i suspect many of us have been thinking:U but trying to work out how to say without getting the post removed!!!

Cheers

Jeremy

[old_picker]

well the one i got isnt a kunz :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

it seems to be ok actually and i dont feel as though i got a crookie and i am quite picky with tools.

i have bought plenty of tools that are in the "kunz category" like the stanley LA block plane i bought last week and took straight back.
not only was it a kunz it was also a POC :o

[scooter]

I am at a loss however to know how to sharpebn the iron on the kunz :?:?:?:?

Ray, to sharpen a concave-edged blade, stick some wet & dry to some PVC that is the same or smaller radius & use that as a sharpening stone. (from Tom Lie Nielson's sharpening book). Could buff the edge carefully to finish.

Flatten the back on a normal stone or w&d on glass or something else flat.


Cheers.................Sean

[mkat]

The question that must be answered first is what you want to do with it - flat/gentle curves, round, or sharp inside curves?

For flat: If you want a cheapish, used spokeshave, then look out for a Stanley #53. These have adjustable mouths. Can be difficult to find, tho'.

The Veritas LA spokeshave is excellent and versatile - but it does have a bit of a learning curve and is better suited to end grain and less demanding timber.

There are the three Veritas spokeshaves that are based on the Stanley 151 range, and I have heard really great things about them, that they are as good as the LN but about a third of the price - not used them however.

I am presently in the process of writing up a review of the HNT Gordon flat and round spokeshaves. These are exceptional! Easy to use and leave a superior finish.

Personally I would avoid the Stanley 151 (I have one) - the performance is relatively poor and is frustrating to use.

For sharp curves: the HNT Gordon is an excellent user. The Stanley 51 is a pig.

For rounds: Check out the Veritas for new, or the Stanley 55 for vintage.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek, I have a cheap Stanley #53 and #51, a crappy Record #151A (bought a few years ago, bad, bad mistake, before I knew) and the expensive Veritas LA. I tuned the #51 (tuned really nice) and #151A (total crap).

I just finished making a Fender style 5 string bass neck (rock maple with a bubinga fingerboard). I used a rasp for the rough carving, following by a medium half round file to smooth out the cuts left by the rasp. I then used the Stanley #51, which worked out much, much nicer and easier to work with than the Veritas LA. I started with the LA, but when I tested the #51 I just kept going with it.

The #53 has an old blade, but it flexes (there's not much left of it) so one of these days I'll upgrade to a thicker aftermarket blade which you actually recommended some time ago.