Advice from a computer boffin please?

[Howdya do that]

My 16 year old son has saved $1,000 to buy himself a norebook computer. He has handed me a full page of specs from the Dell website on one in his price range but it does not make a lot of sense to me. Rather than re-type the whole thing:rolleyes: Could someone tell what to look for? I know there are a myriad of different capacities etc but if someone could give me a list of minmum's perhap's?

Would also appreciate any advice on wireless routers:? Mr 16 tells me that a wireless router connected to our internet connection will let me connect from the office computer and he use his notebook in his bedroom at the same time:?

Thanks in advance,

Howdya

[Abug]

The main question always comes down to what are you going to do with it.
eg office applications, gaming (not the best for), video editting etc.
I think virtually all laptops have the wireless on it already so yes a wireless router will allow him to connect to the network.

Also if your employer allows salary sacrifice for a laptop, go for it.
I did it and bought a $1200 and it ended up costing me around $650 - $700.
I buy the laptop outright with a tax invoice given.
-> Fill out a salary sacrifice form with work and put all the price details and copies of reciepts etc and send it to works pay office.
-> On next pay they take the full price of the laptop out before being taxed. This reduces your gross income. This gross income then got taxed which was a small amount.
-> Then after the tax was taken out, the amount of the laptop was put back into my pay.
:2tsup:

[Honorary Bloke]

This is NOT drivel. I think. Anyway, let Dell configure the computer and Bob's your uncle. The price has come down and so forth. You want built-in network card, wireless network card, decent graphics card, decent RAM (1 Gb) DVD/CD burner. Then, let it go. :)

[Ianab]

For a 16 year old, you will want a laptop with a decent graphics chip in it. Dont believe the excuse about study, he will play games most of the time :wink: As you cant upgrade the video card in a laptop, get one with a decent graphics chip in it. Get more RAM than the minimum, nothing kills a PC more than a lack of ram. You dont need the highest speed CPU, if you are on a budget get a Celeron type processor, with extra ram and a good graphics chip it will be sweet. Get a DVD burner so that he can back stuff up, and a wireless connection built in.

Yes you should be able to connect a wireless router or access point to your existing broadband and use both machines on one connection. Would need to know what your existing setup is to advise you what magic box you need to buy though. It may also be cheaper and more reliable to put in a network switch or router and run a cat5 cable to his room, depends on distance and house construction.

Cheers

Ian

[RufflyRustic]

Happy, Minimum specs from the Dell catalogue they send out every week.

1 gb Ram
80 gb hard drive
everything else will follow from there.

I think you also might find 1000 a tad less than what they are asking for the second-cheapest in the catalogue.

cheers
Wendy

[Daddles]

I've been happy with my Dell - she's three years old now and a desktop. Two things to consider - it comes with Dell software on it that I think slows things down a bit at times. The other is it comes with Norton installed, not a problem if you like Norton, but it's there so you're stuck with it. Apart from that, I'll happily buy Dell again.

Richard

[Howdya do that]

This is NOT drivel. I think. Anyway, let Dell configure the computer and Bob's your uncle. The price has come down and so forth. You want built-in network card, wireless network card, decent graphics card, decent RAM (1 Gb) DVD/CD burner. Then, let it go. :)

This Bob your refering to:? Is that you Bob:?


For a 16 year old, you will want a laptop with a decent graphics chip in it. Dont believe the excuse about study, he will play games most of the time :wink: As you cant upgrade the video card in a laptop, get one with a decent graphics chip in it. Get more RAM than the minimum, nothing kills a PC more than a lack of ram. You dont need the highest speed CPU, if you are on a budget get a Celeron type processor, with extra ram and a good graphics chip it will be sweet. Get a DVD burner so that he can back stuff up, and a wireless connection built in.

Yes you should be able to connect a wireless router or access point to your existing broadband and use both machines on one connection. Would need to know what your existing setup is to advise you what magic box you need to buy though. It may also be cheaper and more reliable to put in a network switch or router and run a cat5 cable to his room, depends on distance and house construction.

Cheers

Ian

Thanks Ian, Idont seem to be able to locate reference to a lot of what you have mentioned above. Here's a shortened version of the stuff I think matters:?
Base System - AMD Turion 64 x 2 dual core mobile technology, 1.6Ghz, 256kb+256kb L2 cache
Hard Drive - 120GB
Memory - 1024MB (2 x 512MB) DDR2 SDRAM
Internal Optical Drive - 8X DVD+/-RW Combination
Wireless Network Solution - 54Mbps Mini Card
Uncluded in System - ATI Radeon Xpress 1150 256MB Hyper memory, Internal 56K modem, 10/100 fast ethernet

Existing setup telstra broadband, house is brick, steel frame, about 10mt between broad band outlet and his room, line of sight would be through 4 walls.

I really appreciate your help!

[Cliff Rogers]

I don't like Dell on principle. :no:

They don't have a dealer support network, they sell direct & then expect the support to come from some poor bugger who made diddley squat on the sale. :((

It is a bit like going to your knowledgeable tool seller & picking his brains & then going to Bunnies to buy the tool. :cool:

We all do it in one form or another, that is why Dell can sell the way they do. :shrug:

[Howdya do that]

I've been happy with my Dell - she's three years old now and a desktop. Two things to consider - it comes with Dell software on it that I think slows things down a bit at times. The other is it comes with Norton installed, not a problem if you like Norton, but it's there so you're stuck with it. Apart from that, I'll happily buy Dell again.

Richard

They must have changed, It's McAfee on this one.

I don't like Dell on principle. :no:

They don't have a dealer support network, they sell direct & then expect the support to come from some poor bugger who made diddley squat on the sale. :((

It is a bit like going to your knowledgeable tool seller & picking his brains & then going to Bunnies to buy the tool. :cool:

We all do it in one form or another, that is why Dell can sell the way they do. :shrug:

So should I buy all my tools from forum members:? They are more knowledgeable than any tool seller near me.

:doh: I think I just left a huge opening for Brendan whatsis name!

[Daddles]

I don't like Dell on principle. :no:

They don't have a dealer support network, they sell direct & then expect the support to come from some poor bugger who made diddley squat on the sale. :((

It is a bit like going to your knowledgeable tool seller & picking his brains & then going to Bunnies to buy the tool. :cool:

We all do it in one form or another, that is why Dell can sell the way they do. :shrug:

Now that's interesting. The mate who put me onto Dell had a few problems with one of his - Dell sent a repair man to his home (free) to do all the necessary. That was a few years ago now, but the support made anything else I'd ever seen look shoddy.

Richard
(my Dell's three year's old and I haven't had to test the support so I can't comment from personal misuse)

[Ianab]

Specs sound about right, plenty of ram and a good graphics chip.

Buying a laptop, if it fails in warranty it's pretty much got to be sent away unless it's something you can swap out yourself. So buying it from Dell, a dealer or a chain store doesn't make a huge difference with aftersales service. A GOOD dealer will help you with choosing the right machine and getting it setup. Wireless routers aren't that hard, but if you have never set one up before there are some tricks.

With the wireless, steel is bad. It will probably work OK for that distance, although get some longish patch leads when you wire it up so you can experiment with placement of the wireless. Sometimes on the top of the bookcase works heaps better than down behind the computer desk with the router. A bigger antenna on the wireless router can help too. But if you can run a cable... it's guaranteed to work :wink:

Cheers

Ian

P.S. get the full 3 year warranty, not the budget 1 year one. It's not likely the machine will fail, but if it does (screen or system board) it's usually not worth repairing unless it's in warranty.

[Howdya do that]

Thanks everbody, especially Ian:2tsup:

[MurrayD99]

I have a Dell Latitude. No problems whatsoever - but (Ianab is right)get the extended warranty. Compaq I had before the Dell died just a bit out of standard warranty and they wanted $2k to replace the motherboard. Consequently it lies in a cupboard, useless.... Can't bear to heave it but useless.... Your specs look OK.

[Cliff Rogers]

Now that's interesting. The mate who put me onto Dell had a few problems with one of his - Dell sent a repair man to his home (free) to do all the necessary. ...

Sorry, been away from a computer.

:ranton: :mad3:

That poor silly repairman works for a fixed price repair if it takes 5 mins or 5 hours. He is on a contract rate tendered for by the lowest bidder.
He didn't make a cent on the original sale & only gets paid if it breaks, in the mean time, he has to try to stay in business somehow.

The type of support I'm talking about is not the "what if it breaks" or "what if I'm to silly to get it out of the box" (Dell will use the same silly repairman to install it for a fixed fee)
The sort of stuff I call support is getting the new PC to work with the new printer or the XYZ bit of software or the internet or their LAN etc.
This sort of work is usually done the local computer dealer.

All the waffle I'm on about is the old 'buy local to support your local bloke' 'cos if you don't, he won't be there when you need him.

I'm a computer bloke in a small town & I'm sick of the local turkeys that buy a mail order Dell & then ask me to help them with it.... :~

:rantoff:


OK, better now.... :D

[ACT Mal]

For what it's worth, my mum has an HP laptop that she bought 2 yrs ago and loves. She had a problem with it a couple of months after the warranty ran out (it only comes with a 1 yr warranty and it dies on the 14th month).

However, when she called, it would appear that someone put the wrong year in when they logged the original warranty and HP thought it was only 2 months old and worked on it under warranty.

Now, I happen to work for HP and would recommend it to a large corporate organisation (their support for corporate and government clients is second to none) but I have to support Cliff's comments when it comes to home users. The guys that HP sent my mum's laptop to did the classic reformat and delete everything trick. They claimed they found some issues and that all should be fixed now.

Turns out that the problem she was having (couldn't connect to the wireless network) was caused by a router frequency issue and had nothing to do with the laptop itself so those useless thugs that HP used for the warranty were too bored to actaully trouble shoot and took the simple option.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that nobody gives a damn if they don't have any skin in it.

If you buy from Cliff (as an example) he cares about his name and reputation and will make sure it sontinues to run.

Hope I've helped...I know I feel better.

Mal.

[Justin]

I'll be the devil's advocate here and ask if your son truly needs a laptop, or is he just buying it because it's cool to have ? If he really needs the mobility (for school etc) then fair enough, otherwise for your $1k you can get heaps more bang for your buck in a desktop system.

Every thing in a laptop is a compromise to portability and power consumption. A desktop on the other hand, is full of components that've been designed based on performance (within a price) as the first priority.

Consider the upgrade path as well - it's a lot easier to upgrade a desktop after some time has passed, whereas a laptop usually has proprietary components that become very hard to get after a few new models have come and gone.

Just my 2 cents.


Cheers,


Justin.

[Poppa]

I've got two Dells. A desktop that I've had since about 2000 and a laptop that I've had for about 2 years. I've had several issues with the hardware components in them (this is not unusual - hardware in computers fails), and Dell has always provided quite good support. Mind you, I'm very computer literate, so when they tell me to re-install Windows XP to see if that fixes the problem I tell them to go jump. I can also swap out a DVD drive in my laptop and replace it (which was one of the hardware problems).

So I've been pretty happy with my Dells. When I bought my laptop I tried to use one of the local businesses to buy through (I like to support local businesses), and I was preparing to buy a new server and a games desktop machine as well - all from the same firm, all at the same time. They were so bad with their service and communication that they convinced me to go back to Dell again.

I'm due for a replacement laptop now. I might approach another local firm (I like local blokes who can help me out if ever I have a problem I can't fix - which is unlikely but possible), but they'd want to be on the ball. The last lot didn't even know what shape a ball was.....

I would suggest that you get the most bang for your buck that you can find. If he genuinely needs a laptop, then go for one that has at least 1Gb of RAM (more comes at a cost, but it is the single best component to spend money on). Wireless is built in. If he genuinely won't play games on it (maybe he already has a PS2) then one with shared graphics will be fine. If he wants to play games or watch movies on it, go for at least 128Mb of dedicated graphics memory on a recent graphics chip (Dell typically don't offer a lot of choice in this area, but their offerings are normally at the more recent end of the spectrum and are acceptable without being stellar and thus expensive).

Screen size can impact price a bit. There are good deals on 14.1 inch widescreens at the moment, and even better deals on older 15 inch non-widescreens. But Dell probably won't have anything available that isn't a widescreen. Other retailers will, and if you can find a local guy that is good he can look at this as well. Also the resolution on the screen can impact price - unless your son wants to play the top level games (in which case he will need more money anyway), he doesn't need flash resolution.

Get the biggest harddrive you can. It will fill up anyway.... Don't bother going for fast speed harddrives or other such stuff - it rarely affects performance. Get a dual layer DVD burner built in if you think he'll use it. Otherwise, just get a CD burner/DVD player - this will again save a small amount of money.

A wireless router for your internet connection will set you back in the region of $200 (probably get one for as little as $120 these days). Buy one that your ISP supports so that they will help you in the event of an internet problem (mine is not supported by Telstra, but I can support it myself so I don't care). If your house interferes with the wireless connectivity, you can also buy wireless network boosters that will fix this problem when strategically placed. But an even better option might be to investigate the in-house networking solutions that use your internal power grid. NetComm market one of these in Australia and they are reasonably priced. It means that you absolutely need surge protection on your power board, but you should have that anyway (if you haven't I'd seriously advise it - this has saved us thousands of dollars on more than one occasion). Just by the way, you can also buy wireless adaptors that are easily installed in desktop machines. They are very cheap.

If your son will accept a desktop machine then you can improve the size of the harddrive above (to probably 250Gb without impacting cost much), and double the memory and improve the graphics card, and still stay within budget. And as Justin points out, desktops are much more easily upgradable (both to improve their performance but also to add things like DVD burners).

I would also look carefully at what operating system you choose to have installed. I personally would get Windows XP installed rather than Vista. It will be a little cheaper to go with XP, but I also never install the newest operating system until it has been around for at least 1 year. I stayed on Windows 98 for much more than that (and I wasn't Robinson Crusoe there either!). XP also requires less system resources, so it will run more easily on a lesser configured machine. You might eventually need to upgrade to Vista, but not for a while yet.

As well as Dell, I'd recommend ACER or LG as good brands that can be had for a reasonable price. If I had unlimited funds I like ASUS and Toshiba. Or even a Mac!

I'd be happy to provide more advice if required - just PM me.

Oh sorry, I also meant to mention that second hand laptops can be had reasonably cheaply. This is an area to be careful with because of the mongrel thieves out there, but worth exploring. It can be hard to know whether you're getting a bargain though if your knowledge levels aren't high.

[Howdya do that]

Thanks everybody for your input.

Its quiet weird but it appears that Dell change their prices everyday because the price that was there Sunday night was $280 dearer on Monday night.

So here's what I did. Went to Harvey Norman and told the guy my son wanted a notebook and I wanted at least 2 years warranty. He asked what it for going to be used for etc and the price was $105 more than the Dell. After we had conpleted the purchase I showed the salesman the Dell specs and he went through it with me. We ended up with 40GB more hard drive than the Dell. Wether 40gb for $105 was a good deal I dont know:?
But atleast there is a shop front I can walk into if I have a problem. Not like the piece of shyte drill bits I bought off the internet and 3 e-mails and 2 phone calls have still given no satisfaction.

[Cliff Rogers]

As far as laptops go, I will only sell Toshiba but beware, there are 2 different build standards in them.
One range is available through 'value add' resellers & then there is a bulk consumer range only available through the chain stores.
The chain store range is the cheaper range & ends up at the repair centre more often.