Dust extractor ducting -substitutes.

[Arron]

Hi guys. I recently bought a 2hp dust extractor for use in my garage/workshop. Weekend warrior stuff. I'm now thinking about how to hook it up to the various places around the garage where I typically make dust. I would need quite a bit of ducting and was a bit shocked to see the 4inch ducting from Hare and Forbes costs $17 per metre. Is there anything one could substitute which is a bit cheaper. What are other people using ?

cheers
Arron

[Wayne Davy]

Arron,

You can use PVC Storm and Water pipe but, of course, this is not flexible so you will need a bit of Flex Duct to connect the D/C and your machines.

As for other flexible pipe such as flex-drain pipe and others, NO GOOD. The problem is that the this stuff is not smooth on the inside and the air flow/suction gets killed by the turbulence/friction created.

Proper flex pipe for dust collection is relatively smooth on the inside. This is one of the reasons that it is expensive.

[sandman]

Hi Aaron, I purchased a terrific book on the subject of dust extraction. It is titled "Dust extraction in the workplace" & is available at most of the woodshops, eg; Carbatec, MIK & of course via the mail order section in A.W.R & Woodworker mags.
It was a real eye opener & very easy to understand.
Maybe a boring subject but, My health is worth doing it properly & this book goes into just how it should be done correctly.
Buy it, you will refer to it regularly!
Regards Sandman.:)

[Sturdee]

Arron

I installed a system like that last year and I used 4" and 3" galvanised guttering downpipes from my plumbing store.
They were a lot cheaper than what you are quoted.

For intakes and corners I used plastic fittings joined to the pipes with duct tape and I earthed all pipes and have had no problems.


Regards

Peter.

[kenmil]

Aaron,

Pay attention to Wayne. He is the resident expert on this subject.

[Wayne Davy]

Ken,

Thanks mate (expert - drip under pressure).

Aaron and Peter,

Don't go under 4" pipe! You reduce your air flow particularly with 2hp and above D/C's. Mine is 6" mains with short lengths of 4" flex going to them machines - you would not believe the difference this makes.

I'll put it this way, would you put a 4" blade in a table saw that can take 10"?

Go to my web site at http://members.optusnet.com.au/~wayne_davy/ for a run down on my system if you are interested. If you want full explanations as to why you should use 6" PVC INSTEAD of metal (4", 3", whatever) go to Bill Pentz's site. http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/Index.html
It's a huge read but well worth it.

[Sir Stinkalot]

I picked up the above-mentioned book from the library the other day and I must say it is worth a flick through. I wouldn't consider buying it myself as once read you get the general idea.

I think cheap ducting is an oxymoron, as it all seems expensive. The connections seem to be quite expensive (around $5-8 for each 45 deg bend for only 100mm at Bunnnies) and when you think of the number required to do the entire shop it will quickly add up.

As I do not do huge amounts of work in comparison to others I plan to build the cyclone on a stand and wheel it to the machine in use. I know that it is a real pain and wouldn't suit everybody but until I build and design my own house and garage I can’t see much point spending heaps to duct my current house.

I know we made a joke about it in a previous thread but I think it will be wise to design around the ducts. Imagine the perfect garage with ducting running under the floor with risers to each machine. No mess no worries .... Wayne please put your tongue back ...


Stinky.

[Wayne Davy]

Underfloor ducting..... Drool, Drool.... Damn, I hate gravel rash on the tongue :D

Seriously, DONT get your plumbing stuff from Bunnies - go to your Plumbing suppliers like TradeLink - half the price of Bunnies so long as you ask for Trade (which they always give to me IF I ask).

[Sir Stinkalot]

I would agree about the prices at Bunnies ... I was just checking the other day whilst I was looking for materials for a cats scratching post. Bunnies couldn't help me with that so I headed down to the local second hand building materials guy (Burnie Leens) and they had just what I was after for next to nothing. Now the reason for this tale is ... Burnie (Jack) had dirty looking PVC pipe and assorted used fittings that seemed to be quite cheap. I was looking for the price of the 6" that our cyclone guru suggests but he didn't have any. So the pipe may be dirty but a wash with the hose and that may be the answer to your cheap ducting ... I don't think it really is second hand but it was just dirty from being outside ... some of the fittings were second hand however.

Just as a point of interest Wayne what sort of prices were the 6" pipe. I know that it will be listed on your excellent site but I can't be bothered looking and I know you are currently on line so I will get an answer back quickly. :)

Sir Stinkalot

[Wayne Davy]

Stinkie,

Lazy bugger :D I had to go search for it!

From memory it was $32 for 6m 150mm PVC Storm & Drainage and 150mm Y Junction's $25.

[Sir Stinkalot]

Hey .... I did finally get off my bum and have a look but I couldn't find mention of it in your previous cyclone post or your web page ... unless I missed something which for a stinky like me is always possible :cool:.

The true hard fact still remains that the junctions are very expensive ...:(

Is the cyclone stable enough to be moved around the shop from one machine to another? I know that you have mounted yours off the roof but if you make a frame on wheels couldn't you move it around where you want?

..... collecting leaves from the path .... cleaning the car interior .... cleaning the fire place ..... the options are limited only by the imagination. :)

Stinky

[Sturdee]

Wayne


I went for 4" and 3" pipe as my workshop is not a garage but built underneath my house and the headroom is adequate for me but limited.

The piping is fitted between the workshop ceiling and the floor of the house above it and runs alongside the floorjoists and as such 6" pipe was not an option.

Nevertheless for my needs the system works satisfactory.


Peter

[kenmil]

Hmmm...Underfloor ducting sounds like a good idea....until you get a blockage.;) ;)

[Sturdee]

Workshop ceiling is of removable panels allowing easy access if ever needed.


Peter.

[kenmil]

Peter,

Sorry, I was responding to the suggestion in Stinky's post, not yours.
;)

[Sir Stinkalot]

Ahhh .... underfloor ducting under conventional floors not under a slab . :(
Would there be much blockage with 150mm pipe? .... Im sure a large rodent or a small dog could do the trick.

[Wayne Davy]

Yes, it is possible to block any size. A stray plastic bag getting sucked up and then catching inside the pipe will do it (talking from experience). Installing underfloor is still very attractive, just need to have some access hatches/manholes.

[journeyman Mick]

In my last workshop I had I.O.s (inspection openings) on every bend and elbow. I would recommend putting these in, especially if you were to have an underfloor system. If you have any blockages you can simply unscrew the openings until you find the blockage and then run your extractor or cyclone while you poke a rod around thru the opening to loosen the blockage. I've never had a blockage but I figure the extra 50c or so per fitting is well worth the potential to save a lot of work should the system ever get a bad blockage.

Mick

[Glen Bridger]

Hi Guys,

I have just recently purchased a 1HP dust collector for my home workshop and have also looked into ducting alternatives.

My first choice was to use 100mm electrical conduit because all (I thought) elec conduit is measured on the O/D and is exact size eg 25mm diameter conduit is exactly that. But it isn't, its about 110mm & very thick wall.

Next choice is to use 100mm sewer pipe which is also about 110mm O/D with thinner wall and fitting are cheaper. The problem is making step down adaptors to accept the 100mm flex ducting.

Third choice was to use 90mm storm pipe. The pipe is thin walled and easy and light to work with. This is the cheapest option and the pipe can be wrapped with 4-5mm neoprene rubber to accept the 100mm flex ducting.

The 100mm sewer pipe would probably be the best choice and I have a couple of ideas on making adaptors which I haven't tried yet. The trick here is to make them simple to contruct because you'll want to make a few.

I'm still working on this so I'll have to see which one works out the most cost effective.

Glen