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View Full Version : Room for improvement ... and lots of it.



Sir Stinkalot
9th July 2003, 05:47 PM
Fortunately I usually play squash on Tuesday nights but this week it was moved to Monday, this left the evening with little to do. After venturing out to the garage in the freezing cold for a short period of time I chose to watch some of that high class Australian television that this country is world famous for. To my shock and dismay I stumbled across a program called ….. “Room for improvement” ….. oh my (insert religious figure of choice). This seems to be a show where they give no talent hacks thousands of dollars to destroy some ones dream home. The unfortunate family to feature in this episode where looking at doing up their kitchen …. they had purchased some Smeg appliances (Very nice start) but ran out of money before they could complete the job. This so called group of experts came into this poor mans house …. destroyed his kitchen … and then only left him with $350 to fix it up again. There was a lamp made out of an arrangement of old bowls, tacky multi coloured splashback, an artists rendition of an egg plant that looked like a discoloured Mr Blobby. The cupboards were made out of assorted off cuts of MDF and ply, and the host proceeded to destroy a Kauri pine workbench by filling holes with discoloured resin. Please do not make me relive the curtains ….

I normally don’t mind a diy type of show … they can give the novice some decorating ideas and the more developed viewers, like those who frequent this BB, some insight into different ideas that may not have resisted before …. but this …. this mindless dribble did not show the viewer any interesting techniques, any new and interesting products, nor produce and acceptable result for the home owner in my opinion. Lets hope for my sake squash is back on for next Tuesday.

Too much room for improvement (http://www.roomforimprovement.com.au/)

Ps: It is interesting to see on their site that they do not allow a larger image of the disaster that they created ….. I wonder why.

This is Stinky signing out from another critical television review.

journeyman Mick
9th July 2003, 10:09 PM
Ha! you think that's bad, I just turned off the TV, there was a drove of "celebrities" (or is it a gaggle, a mob or a murder? not sure of the collective noun for "celebrities") who with the help of the SES and St John's Ambulance (no doubt there to patch up all those injured during the proceedings) were going to totally renovate a families house and yard. I mean totally! New roof, windows, outside render, inside plasterboard & paint, kitchen, landscaping etc etc. It looked like they were (thankfully) using a lot of contractors as well. I wonder how many people out there in DIY land think that you can actually put gyprock up, tape and set the joints (3 coats min.) and paint it (3 coats min.) all in 48 hours and actually get a decent job? I think this type of show has a lot to answer for in regards to people having accidents (personal injury types, not interior decorating ones!), a rise in bad taste and tradespeople being badgered to do jobs faster and cheaper because that's how it's done on TV. I watch this type of program occasionly for my "righteous indignation" fix, or some "hysterical disbelief" but this one was just too much. I'd like to see what happens if I try to start a job before 7am and run past 5pm, or park a 6M skip in the middle of the road, or place materials all over the footpath, nature strip and road, or rig up huge spot lights so work can continue on well into the night. Or have so many people on site (which BTW was a total quagmire) that it was totally congested and unsafe. The council, EPA, Workplace Health and Safety and Police would be down on me like a ton of bricks:mad: I think its pretty irresponsible for these people to work in a manner which promotes poor, rushed workmanship, with unsafe practices and outside of normally accepted safety and amenity guidlines. Anyway, that's my spleen vented!:)

Mick

Dean
10th July 2003, 12:32 AM
Room For Destruction...

yeah I have never liked one of their renovations....
Makes me wonder about their skills also.
I would never let that mob into my home.

In fact, I would never let any of them near my place, except maybe Backyard Blitz, because they seem to know what they are doing and don't come up with crummy, retro, crap designes that may be in fashion now, but next week will bring horror to the faces of the majority of humans on the planet :)

DanP
10th July 2003, 12:35 AM
Stinky,

These shows seem to have a passion for MDF and when they do use real timber they invariably destroy it by painting it purple or some other equally gaudy colour. Oh well, I s'pose that's what you get when you have sexually challenged blokes (read gay) 'designing' your decor.

Dan

q9
10th July 2003, 12:35 AM
collective noun for "celebrities"

May I suggest "clot" - hinders proper flow, and tends to attract more and more gunk, making the clot bigger.

craigb
10th July 2003, 10:11 AM
Atually I think these shows are a conspiracy on the part of the MDF manufatcurers so that they can sell more of their product :)

I've only seen that show once - last week as it happens - where they "did over" a room in a recording studio. They made a "sofa" out of MDF which took two big blokes to move. Then there was the "sideboard" made out of 25 mm MDF. I can imagine how heavy that must of been.

But as you say, above all its the mindless inanity of this show that really grates.


Craig.

Eastie
10th July 2003, 10:59 AM
I flicked past one of the shows last night – on the second rating channel I think. In the blink of an eye I was shocked at what was happening.

A labourer, minus a hard hat, working at 2+ metres below ground level between an unsupported excavation one side and a retaining wall the other. To top it off an excavator had been placed on the edge of the cut, creating the greatest possibility of killing the stupid idiot down the trench by either cave in or actually hitting the aforementioned idiot with the bucket.
This type of work practice can readily compared to some of the third world working conditions photographed by the world health organisation.

This comes one month after a similar show depicted two clowns in a second floor unit standing in an open window void – minus any form of guardrail.
I hope WorkSafe will be investigating.

To anyone who bitches and moans at the government and industry bodies for supporting mandatory owner builder registration and education – go kill yourself elsewhere, the building industry doesn’t need another statistic.
----------------
PS Mick, you hit the nail on the head. I wonder how much they pay to get around federal, state and local laws, not to mention the insurance and defects that must come from such a slapdash operation.

craigb
10th July 2003, 12:05 PM
There is one makeover program worth watching. This Old House which is on Foxtel. This American program uses tradsemen to do the work usally after an architect has come up with a plan and the project runs over several months. It even has his Normness doing his thing :)
It would be good if one of the stations did an Aussie version of it as an antidote to the crappy MDF shows.

ndru
10th July 2003, 12:55 PM
I agree that TOH is an interesting show. Call me sick but I especially enjoy watching Tom Silva and Norm Abrams discuss some of the finer points of structural work. I found Steve Thomas pretty annoying but he did add some spirit to the show - I believe a new host has joined the team.

Unfortunately a lot of the work on TOH doesn't apply to Australian conditions or the materials they use isn't readily available here. Also, the cost of the some of the rennovations they do is are astronomical. I recall seeing one show where they laid new stair runners using William Morris designed carpet and had an acoustical consultant design the main living room!

It would be nice to see an Australian show that was a little more upmarket, didn't paint everything in this year's fashion colours or use ugly backyard artwork, and showed some of the warts and all complexities of rennovations (eg new plumbing in bathrooms, laying a slab, etc). Hopefully this would "educate" a lot of people on what they can realistically achieve on their own without creating an eyesore. Fat chance in this era of lowest-common-denominator TV!:mad:

Iain
10th July 2003, 02:02 PM
One point that most seem to have overlooked is that some misguided, benevolent (or could be Manevolent) friend/relative gets you away for the weekend and when you come home 'Surprise!'.
If my lot ever do it they will be disinherited:mad:

Dean
10th July 2003, 03:08 PM
Yeah I often wonder if the day after the cameras leave, the people who own these houses think that the renovation is the ugliest/crappiest looking job they had ever seen. Of course, they wouldn't ever say that on camera, or show it on TV even if they did.

craigb
10th July 2003, 03:42 PM
At the risk of sunding like I watch a lot of these things, I have seen on the pommy version of Changing rooms one of the punters express their disgust at the awful hideousness served up by the "designer". Not that the TV people gave a rats of course - after all they didn't have to live with it, but it did make a pleasent change from the usual "oh, it's just fantastic" response.

Cheers
Craig

averack
10th July 2003, 06:03 PM
I love TOH and like NRDU thought that the products they use are not available here. Well not all maybe but some of them. A couple of months back they showed a plumber using a plastic pipe joined with a crimping tool. Neat stuff I thought and then a couple of weeks later whilst checking out a new unit under construction guess what they were using for pipes! Yep they were using crimped connections, quick and easy to install.

Oh, and that house on TOH where they were building the concert room had a renovation budget of US$1.5m and to save money the owners stripped the windows in the conservatory by hand rather than spend $80 each. I think the reason for doing themselves had more to do with the wood becoming furry after being dipped in acid so they got a better result doing themselves. I don't think money was the real issue.

Like others I find the Australian renovation shows extremely tacky and whilst the surprised (or should that be shell shocked?) owners express how wonderful it is I think the look of horror on their faces give it away. If someone did that to me I would demand compensation and professionals paid to rectify their work.

You will notice of course that the figures they quote is for cost of materials only. They don't factor in the cost of skilled tradesmen. For example the flat pack kitchen they put in this week was $4,500 which is a lot of melamine and don't get me started on the fact that with one hour to go they installed the sink, dishwasher, oven and stove top!!!!!

gold leader
10th July 2003, 06:06 PM
Yeah I've seen many an episode of the English version where at least one of the participants didn't like the result. And the opinion of the designers? "Oh, you have no taste, you don't know what you're talking about"
Oh to be on such a high pedestal.....

journeyman Mick
10th July 2003, 09:40 PM
Averack, that "crimp together plumbing" is Polybutylene, come in a few different brands, including two that push together. It will handle hot water, you just need 1M of copper out of the HWS, BUT rats love chewing the stuff. It's actually more expensive than copper fittings but you save on labour. IMHO there's only two applications it should be used in: bore water areas where the water corrodes copper and inside aluminium boats where the copper corrodes the aluminium.
I also thought that $4500 was a lot for a flat pack, I've done complete supply and installs for not much more.
It would be nice to see these shows actually taking on an educational role rather than just "look everybody, this is how much can be done with a swag of money in not much time at all". But like you say ndru, it's lowest common denominator TV. Makes me wonder how those people can get up and go to work in the morning. I know I find it extremely hard to be motivated to do crap, no matter how well I'm paid. But I must admit I do enjoy watching them occasionly, if only to laugh in disbelief.:)

Mick

soundman
10th July 2003, 09:43 PM
one particular mate of mine made me solemly swear that I would strike down any television renovator that approached his house while he was away with a wheel brace.

Wild Dingo
11th July 2003, 02:30 AM
These shows are as has been said horrendous... there workmanship is appalling their safety levels almost non existant and the speed they do these things in leaves one to wonder what corners they cut to get there aside from safety.

the auction squad is another that gets up my goat... get these houses {east coast as always! :rolleyes: I mean cant these galahs cross the flamin nallabour occasionally?? on second thought stay there!!} worth on average something like 500,000 and go in blast away and whallah auction it of for what? an extra 30,000?... most of what they do the owners could have afforded to do anyway even including the cost of tradesmen and hiring equipment if not doing themselves... and then they flog the houses off with the allusion of "look how much extra we got for just doin this much work! any dumb slob can do the same thing"

While I bet the ones that watch these shows like hawks week in week out are the poor dopey buggars that could a) never afford to buy such a place b) never afford to do the alterations muckups and coverups that these idiots do c) think they can do it cause "we saw it done on Auction Squad and it looked so easy!" so whats the dopey buggar watching do?... goes right out and hires a mess of stuff whacking it all on the already over taxed credit card of course... then gets stuck in making a heck of a mess of it... then when conceeding his inability to match it with the AS mob relents and calls in the trades to fix the mess theyve made... taxing the credit card yet again... then they try to sell it hoping to get the same figure that the mob on AS got and hello they get nowhere near it!!... aside from the fact that their house had nowhere near the value of the ones on AS in the first place and cause of course if youve done your homework before the auction youve talked to the neighbors found out about all the stuff ups and the trades and such and of course as an investor your gonna keep that price low... and the poor gullible shmuck is left with far less than they thought theyd get...

Ohhh one thing I recall seeing on the one show of Reason For Disaster was they "found" a beautifully stacked pile of Oregon Teak or some such fine timber around the side of the house {open to the weather of course :rolleyes:} and bright eyed and bushy tailed all excited bugalugs leers at the camera and says "Wow this is really great timber I think I can do something with this" and into it he goes making something totally useless and then paints the ruddy thing some revolting color that matches nothing in the room he sticks it into!!!

My mob ever tries that on me and I tell yer Im outta here!!... or they are!:p As I said to the missus thats cause for the D word doin that to a fella... I mean I gots masses of fine Tuart out the front and then theres that beautiful Sheoak and Jarrah gawd can you imagine the damage that mob of dipsticks would do with all that?!!! :eek: NO FLAMIN WAY!!! :mad:

aaaggghhh gak gag I hate these programs! :mad:

Sir Stinkalot
11th July 2003, 02:02 PM
Shane .... its allright .... how are they ever going to get all of that machinary past all of that Tuart you have sitting on your lawn? It will be a program in itself just getting the Dingo Digger around the back :D

Pulpo
11th July 2003, 02:37 PM
[[B]QUOTE]
]Originally posted by averack [/i]

[B]I love TOH and like NRDU thought that the products they use are not available here. Well not all maybe but some of them. A couple of months back they showed a plumber using a plastic pipe joined with a crimping tool. Neat stuff I thought and then a couple of weeks later whilst checking out a new unit under construction guess what they were using for pipes! Yep they were using crimped connections, quick and easy to install.

In regards to the plastic pipes:

I'm no expert but in the US this product is growing in use quite a bit, reading the forums would suggest it anyway.

The flexible plastic pipe is probably PEX (Polyethylene) a flexible plastic water pipe that can with stand high pressure and high temperatures. It can replace copper entirely. Rats maybe a problem but no ones really reported it.

Look at www.theplumber.com

PB [Polybutylene] is an older technology and used little, its inferior to PEX.

There's also CPVC with is rigid plastic piping which also can with stand high temperatures and pressures.


Anyway back to home improvement shows.

This Old House is in a different league to the others, although I did prefer their old series as they were more informative with less time wasted just talking instead demonstrating.

The pommy versions are a laugh; I did see a follow up story on one, as they interviewed pass participants of changing rooms. Very funny, almost no one left the new change as is. All complain about some things and some spent a small fortune fixing it. One had not even been 1/2 completed but the show had ended so the owners had to finish it at their expense.

These shows frustrate me, they show nothing of value, and they ALWAYS run out time every week. State the bleedin obvious like I have used bricks for the boarder [really I thought they were wood logs]. What's more if they did complete the job in the required time it would be a mess.

Cheers

Pulpo

Zed
11th July 2003, 02:47 PM
I've done a fair bit of renovating and consider myself pretty good at it... and I must say that some of these shows are pretty ordinary - they always seem to to be some blond chickie who does the fluffy arty stuff (you can swap the blonde for a gay bloke if you want), some old fart who plants things that die and some mug chippie (sorry...) who does the structual work. Oh, dont forget the looooooser!!! who does all the hard yakka but doesnt say much. So what do you get ? a gang of plants, some paving thats usually in an unusable or unmowable shape and some ugly F****ing pond that grows alge and mosquitoes. And MIEN GOTT!!! the colours they choose! Retch!

But I must say I quite like the boof headed carpenter on "Blitz" and to be fair on the odd occasion all those shows give some good advice that can be used elsewhere - most recently I liked the idea of an automatic room separator on "The block" that the same sex couple (had) installed. The better half likes the advice on when to plant the appropriate plants.

I've only just joined the forum and have read through some of the posts - I hope Im wrong - Im getting the impression that there are a lot of cranky old men who just like the opportunity to have a whinge at something. :-)


(gotta admit my missus loves 'em all)

Cheers

Zed

Sir Stinkalot
11th July 2003, 02:47 PM
Changing rooms is somewhat different in as much as two parties enter into the agreement with their eyes open ..... Sure the result isn't much to look at but they know what they are getting themselves in for and tend to enjoy the experience. Most of the rooms would require alteration after the show has left but that is part of it. The Australian show did do one of those 'where are they now' specials and there were a few rooms that were left as the show intended but more that needed to be altered. I would object to the suprise "make up", the owner has no say in what the result will be nor do they have any idea what area of the house or yard is being "modified", at least with changing rooms they can suggest a room that they would like changed, give their friends an idea of style that they are after, and if worst comes to worst they were looking at redoing the room themselves anyway.

gold leader
11th July 2003, 04:48 PM
Good point stinky, but at the same time, I have seen the participants of Changing Rooms tell the decorator implicitly "Please do not touch the ....". But they just can't help themselves. They go and recover the sofa, or paint the sideboard, then wonder why the owner goes mental at them for ruining their family heirloom.
Add my Big Thumbs Up for This Old House too, quality viewing

Baz
11th July 2003, 09:12 PM
Hi Guys, have you ever noticed on those shows, particulary Backyard Blitz that the owners never end up with a clothes line, very rarely is one shown when the project is finished. Always wondered where the owners stuck up a clothes line after the show was produced, probably pulled out Jamie's water feature and stuck one there.
Cheers
Barry

Wild Dingo
11th July 2003, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by doorstop
And the flamin' mongrels always turn the old mans' shed into a bloody playroom/conversation pit/ entertainment area.... where is the poor "B" s'posed to put all his woodworking stuff, his lawn mower, the bloody boat.... insensitive flamin' poofs!
And they never ever go back in 12 months to check on hteir victims!!

What a wonderous rant there stoppers!! :D

But think about it for a tic mate... firstly they would have used abused and buggared up all the tools in the shed within the first 5 minutes while waiting for that Kannards mob to rock up with all the hired gear... so thats his tools all trashed... what the hell hes not there is he and by the time he works it out theyve gone so thats what happens to a "B"s tools...

As for the boats well they get sliced in half painted a purty pale pink motif with some luverly pale blue seascape with lots of big bold colors and hung on the wall or fence... so theres the boat stuffed... and the timber well see above...

The old "B"s buggared before he pharts... hopefully he will have retained the beer brewery he snuffled under the floorboards before they came and he can crawl under there with rover and get well and truely smashed pass out and stay there till the whole flamin flock of galahs have well and truely buggared of down the track... cause sure as blazes if he comes out theres gonna be flamin WAR!!! :mad:

That is of course unless hes taken on being close to his feminine side and thinks all that color and stuff ith far bedda than hith little mucho thed... eh thethil? yeth thirel :D

Sir Stinkalot
10th September 2003, 03:20 PM
Sorry to bring up old news again .... but last night I caught the last few minutes of "DIY Rescue" .... they had converted a garage/basement into a lounge room with a tv and couches for the father and young (I would assume under 8) kids .... this area then opened out onto a large deck and out to the garden where I would say 50% was dedicated to a childrens play area. Ok so what is wrong with that I hear you ask ... they appear to have done a good job with qualified trades and it came up quite well unlike some other reno shows ... well the problem is that they sunk a spa into the deck between the new indoor area and the childrens play area. There was no fence what so ever around the spa, or the childrens play area. They bought the happy couple out at the end of the show where the kids and I assume neighbours kids were sitting next to and around the spa thinking it was the best thing since sliced bread.

I did catch the start as well and the builder guy was quoting the BCA stating that the ceiling needed to be at least 2400 so I thought that they would have twigged to the spa fence. Even the tradesperson (if they used one as I missed that bit) putting in the spa should have mentioned something about a fence.

These shows are dangerous to the clueless Joe Blow who thinks that the sunken spa in the deck looks great and he will give it a shot next weekend.

Safety Stinky. :mad:

Eastie
10th September 2003, 03:50 PM
I would like to think that the relevant building inspector/surveyor would have had to sign off on the works under a building permit, thus picking up their gross negligence. Unfortunately these laws don't protect people from such neglect until the relevant surveyor returns to inspect the works and orders the improvement.

Shame, shame, shame.

Sir Stinkalot
10th September 2003, 04:08 PM
Shame

Sturdee
10th September 2003, 07:43 PM
Stinky

I have to admit that I watched that show as well and during the show when they were installing the spa they mentioned that it had a lockable cover as well and needed to be used by them.
They said that's why it complied with the regulations.

Regard


Peter

Sir Stinkalot
10th September 2003, 11:10 PM
Ok thanks Peter ... as I said I only saw the first few and last few minutes so I am happy to stand corrected (please do not sue me DIY ;)).

I am still suprised that a lockable cover would be all that is required to comply with the regulations. It doesn't take much for mum or dad to lift off the cover and then forget that they left something inside, or to run inside for a shower before replacing the cover ..... at least with a fence it is always there and it has a self closing gate. I know for sure that if it was my house with little kids I would be making damn sure that there was a saftey fence for extra security.

http://www.my-smileys.de/cry_2.gif

Stinky ... always looking after the little person.

http://www.my-smileys.de/kiddie.gif

DanP
11th September 2003, 02:10 PM
The worst bit is that they take an idiot who has torn his house to bits (the easy bit) and then doesn't have the know how to fix it and they reward his uselessness by fixing all his huge stuff ups.

Dan

DanP
12th September 2003, 12:59 AM
AND...

To rub salt, I go into the newsagent and buy a copy of the Aus Wood Review only to find that they have wasted several valuable pages doing a story on the bloody show.

Dan

Boogaloo
16th September 2003, 08:22 PM
In addition to This Old House on the Lifestyle channel Monday evenings, does anyone else catch the two shows on a Saturday morning, also on the Lifestyle channel?

Firstly, there is Ron Hazleton's show at 9am followed by Norm Abrams' New Yankee Workshop at 9.30am.

If I'm working my missus always tapes Norm for me.
Great show. Even greater missus.:D

As for the Aussie reno shows, it's got me beat how they can sand and polish the floors in just about a whole house, with three coats of 2 pack while a plethora of tradesmen *cough- cough* trample all over it doing their thing. All within the alotted time frame.
I'm buggered if I can do it.

Boogaloo
17th September 2003, 07:33 PM
Yep, a lot of you do see The New Yankee Workshop.

I just saw the other thread on the announcements forum.

Seems we're not happy with the program guru's at Foxtell.