Mini-Cyclone Dust Collector

[Wayne Davy]

Ok - I thought I would start a new thread detailing the building of my new Mini-Cyclone which will be used for hand-held power tools (mainly Sanders) and will replace my Triton Dust Collection Bucket.

Why do I want to build a mini-cyclone and get rid of the Triton Bucket? Because the filter in the bucket clogs up very rapidly, especially when sanding, and the suction drops of so it is useless. There are a few threads in the Triton forum about this problem and it was on one that I started talking about building a mini-cyclone. http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?s=&postid=27593#post27593
I could have put the building details on that thread but I thought this might interest others so that’s why the new thread.

Now, I want to make this clear, this is not my idea but a guy in the US (Mike Simpson I believe). You can view his web site at:
http://www.mgsweb.com/woodworking/cyclone/minicyclone.htm

I saw his and thought 'what a great idea'. As I am very happy with my big cyclone and new all the ins and out of them I thought this idea should work quite well - well, better than the Triton Bucket that’s for sure. But I did think I would make mine a bit bigger and more robust than Mike's. So, I started (and nearly finished) building one this afternoon.

[Wayne Davy]

First up - the parts.

I thought the easiest thing to make the top drum from was a piece of 150mm (6") PVC that I used for the big Cyclone's main ducts. This has a oval hole in the side for the inlet pipe.

The cone is made of some left over sheet steel from the big one but I did not have a piece quite big enough so I pop-riveted two bits together and then marked and cut out the cone.

The two small pipes (50mm PVC) are for inlet and outlet pipes.

The piece of Ply is for the top of the drum and has a 50mm hole in the centre to accept the Outlet pipe.

For measurements, I used Bill Pentz's Cyclone Design Spreadsheet and just entered in the smaller Drum size and inlet/outlet sizes and it calculated everything just fine.

[Wayne Davy]

Next job was to bend the cone. To do this, I just used a piece of PVC pipe as a former and slowly curved the cone around it (hint were thick gloves as the metal is sharp - wish I did - duh).

The clamps are just to help with the first bit of the curve and I removed them to curve the majority of the cone. I found that doing such a tight curve (compared to my big cyclone) caused the metal to bend (facet??) a bit but I don't think it will matter that much.

A sheet metal roller bender would have been nice but they are a bit pricey especially as this is the last time I intend to work with metal (give me wood anyday).

[Wayne Davy]

Checking that the cone fits nicely into the Drum section.

[journeyman Mick]

Wayne, you wouldn't be able to use a set of rollers to make a cone anyway, they will only roll cylinders. You'd need to press (facet) it with a brake press or use an English wheel to roll up and down the cone, so you'd still end up with a facetted cone. At least this is what I've picked up working with boilermakers and fitters in boat yards, that and if things don't work/fit use the oxy and a BIG hammer!

Mick

[Wayne Davy]

Cutting and Flaring out the bottom of the cone to make a ring that will allow me to connect it to a collection drum with some flex pipe.

[Wayne Davy]

Thanks Mick!! Well I did not intend on buying one but I wont even bother trying to beg/borrow one in the future it I ever decide to do something like this again. Thanks again for in the info.

Next bit of the building process comming up.

[Wayne Davy]

Cone now fitted to the top drum. Used four pop rivets but the joint will be taped over with flashing tape later for full strength.

[Wayne Davy]

Fitted Inlet and Outlet pipes using one bolt for the inlet and a couple of screws for the outlet as I had the Ply to attach it to.

Damn - SWMBO is calling me :( Play time is over for the day. Hopefully, I will get this thing finished tomorrow. Only got to tape it up with Flashing Tape to seal it and then attach it to a collection drum. Then hook up the Vac and see if it works Ok.

Stay tuned.

[Wayne Davy]

BTW Total time elapsed - about 3 hours. 1 Hour this morning and 2 this afternoon. Probably on 1-2 hours left and I will be done and sucking up the sanding dust and NOT causing the Vac Bag to fill up!

[zathras]

Wayne

I concur with the difficulty of rolling the smaller diameter cone. I had enough fun getting the 6" outlet happening on my full blown cyclone. :o

The long support out of the vice is the only way to fly rolling these buggers.

From memory, I gradually formed the curve by dragging the sheet as best I could over a round former, using a cupped hand at the smaller end. The large end took care of itself pretty easily.

No reason why the small one shouldn't work. Mr Dyson has made a tidy profit with his vacuum cleaners - bit hard to justify one for the shed though :)

[Wayne Davy]

Ray,

Yep, not the most fun rolling the cone! Got there in the end.

I finished the mini-cyclone this afternoon and it works great. I'll post up some more pictures tonight.

[Wayne Davy]

Ok, as I said in the last post, the mini-cyclone is finished. I have included a jar of something I had lying around to show the scale (the Vac probably gives it away as well)

[Wayne Davy]

Hooked up to my little belt sander. I also tried it on the Random Orbital. On both tools, hardly any dust around after using them for a about 10 minutes a piece. Suction also stayed right up the whole time.

[Wayne Davy]

After using it on the sanders, I sucked up some chips and dust from under the table saw. All the dust/chips/crap went in the drum. Opened up the Vac and check the bag - empty. Well probably a tiny bit of fine dust in it but I cannot see anything.

Now, before someone chimes in and says 'why is there chips/dust under the table saw when you have your big cyclone?'. I did not run the big cyclone on purpose so I would have something to suck up with the little one. However, the dust port on the table saw does need attention as the standard one is a little bugger. Fixing that next.

[John G]

Well done Wayne.
It looks a bit unwieldy, (I thought the cone looked a bit long), but if it works, and the vacuum bag stays empty, then who am I to argue!
It will definitely be an improvement on the Triton Bucket, so you've inpired me to give one a go myself (time permitting).
I'm wondering what alternatives there are to the sheet steel?
A thinner gauge (you don't say what you used), or maybe a plastic sheet?

Another question regarding your big cyclone: I was reading some other threads and it seems you do not have any filter on the outflow? Is that right? I thought you should have some sort of box/hepa type filter?

[Wayne Davy]

John,

Thanks mate and the cone is 1.64 times the Drum height which is one of the optimal lengths (3 is apparently very optimal according to Bill Pentz but makes it very tall of course). As for being unwieldy - nope - that big drum keeps it standing up (unlike the Triton Bucket) and it is actually very light and easy to move.

As for the metal - 22 or 24 gauge - some stuff I had left over from the Big Boy. For the little one, you could use plastic, thin gauge or whatever you can bend into a cone - it just must remain circular.

Regarding the Filter on the Big one - I am venting outside and no neighbours on that side so no problem.

[Wayne Davy]

Just thought I had better point out something about the mini-cyclone (and big ones). To run the cyclone effect inside the drum and cone, some air power is required so there is a bit of a drop of in suction power compared to just using the hose straight from the Vac. This is not a lot and nothing in comparrison to the loss when the Vac Bag or a Trition Buckets filter get full/clogged.

I took about 4 1/2 hours all up to make the little one - probably should have been only 2-3 hours but I am still moving a bit slow due to a small operation I had two weeks ago.

If you need a reason to make one consider this - sanding goes much quicker, results are better and you will get a bit more life out of the sandpaper disks/belts/etc if you remove the dust WHILE sanding which means Time and $$$$ saved.

So, make one - they work great.

[Glen Bridger]

Wayne,

What a great idea. I have been trying to take in all this info about building a cyclone. I understand the principle behind the cyclone because the aircraft I work on uses a similar principle to separate water from airconditioning air.

I only recently bought a dust extractor thinking it was about time to stop relying on just a respirator for my health and a vacuum cleaner for the mess.
But I only purchased a 1HP machine and everything about the cyclone revolves around a 2HP dust extractor and enormous volumes of air flow.

I will look further into making a cyclone which will match the 1HP machine.

You say you used Bill's spread sheet to design it around a smaller bucket. I don't recall that spread sheet, perhap you could please point me in the right direction.

Thanks,

Glen

[Wayne Davy]

Glen,

For a Cyclone to handle Jointers/Thicknessers/Table Saw and even Router Tables - a 2hp is really needed to mantain enough air flow to clear the pipes and prevent clogging which is a real pain believe me.

I guess you can make one using a 1hp Blower but, as I said, you will loose some suction from the word go so I don't think it would be worth the effort.

This little one is designed for Hand-Held Tools such as Sanders, Biscuit Jointers, Portable Power Saws, etc and just general clean up in small spaces it does not replace the Big Boy.

As for Bill's plans - yes - they are a bit hard to spot. The links are on this page and are down a bit under "Cyclone Cutting Layout:"
http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/CyclonePlan.html

Heres a direct link to the current set but this link may become dead if Bill posts up new plans (which he does from time to time).
Imperial Version: http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/Cyclone%20Sizing%20Rev.xls
Metric One: http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/CycloneSpreadsheetMetric.xls

Also, Bill has step by step instructions here:
http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/BuildCyclone.html

Good Luck!

[Wayne Davy]

Glen,

Also, its was not designed around a small bucket - designed around a small Top Drum and Cone (i.e. scaled down).

The collection drum I am using is actually the same size as the one on the Big Cyclone (bought them together). I did not use it for the big one as it is a Heavy Cardboard one (other is all Steel) with steel top/bottom and I was worried about fires in the bin caused by spontaneous combustion of the dust pile if left for long periods.

This Heavy Cardboard bin works fine for the little one and I will make sure I empty it at the end of each days woodwork.

btw Both drums are ex chemical drums. Apparently Pool Shops get them for bulk chemicals. These had been long out of use and I picked them up from the Weekend Paper.

[Glen Bridger]

Hi Wayne,

Thanks very much for your very detailed reply.

Your've just made me depressed again. I'll have another read of Bill's site again.

Glen

[snow]

I've built a mini cyclone as well. Will include some photos if you want. It is basically the same as the previous. Mine is a vac into a 25L mayonaise bucket with the cyclone on top of the bucket. During the construction phase (without plans) I found this site that was really useful to help work out the dimensions of the cone. Thought it may be useful to others. Have a look at
http://www.red-bag.nl/engintools/calccone.php

[Wayne Davy]

Snow,

Cool! Post up a pic!

[Sturdee]

As I intend to build a cyclonic drum chips/dust extractor using a 44 gal drum and interpose it before my existing dust collecter set up ( I know it is not a full scale cyclone but an improvement on the existing system) I thought I would try a mini model first using my old Triton dust bucket.

I used 2 old Triton quick release hose connectors and $ 6.00 worth of plumbing parts from Bunnings. I enlarged one of the inlet hole and the middle hole, inserted and glued the parts together. After sealing all other holes I connected it to my old shop vac and it works fantastic. In fact this is how Triton should have made it.

Now all I have to do is make and insert a cone into the bucket and bolt the lot onto a 20 lt. old paint drum and it will be a proper mini cyclone.

Thanks Wayne for having shown how easy it is to make and the inspiration to do it.

Now for do the big one.

Peter.

[Wayne Davy]

Peter,

Great!! Fairly easy to make and they work great hey!

I have just updated my web site with the Mini-Cyclone (and also some of the other pages). Check it out at
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~wayne_davy

Post up a pic of your mini-cyclone.

[Grue]

Congratulations Wayne terrific information.

I'm currently working on drawings for a cyclone to add to the manual on http://www.thepiers.net/pn/index.php so was very interested in your posting.

Some additional information:

If anyone wants help laying out the cone detailed instructions are on http://www.thepiers.net/pn/index.php?module=htmlpages&func=display&pid=6
don't forget to allow an extra bit for a seam to join it together.

Sorry Mick, the cone can be made on a set of rollers, it's one of the functions the machine does.

If you want access to rollers, you could try contacting the Industrial Arts teachers at your local High School. Most have metal rollers in their metal shop.

I would welcome such enquiry at my school as we have a policy of inviting community involvement in school activities.

Impotrantly, using Wayne's method of forming the cone, always start at the ends and work towards the centre. NEVER start in the midle and work out.

Forming by hand using Wayne's method is easier with 26 gauge gal.

Grue
www.metalbashatorium.com

[Grue]

Alternate suggestion for the cyclone body.

If you can get an offcut of spiral metal ducting to use as the main body of the cyclone you can include an internal spiral duct to make the air swirl as it passes into the main chamber. The spiral on the sides is ideal for attaching an internal spiral.

A student has a picture of the spiral arrangement on http://www.frenchviss.qld.edu.au/auger.htm

If you replace the bottle in this picture with the outside case of your cyclone, and replace the stick with the outlet air tube you'll have the picture.

I have a drawing for the development of the spiral bit and tried to attach it to a posting but got a "too big" error. It appears that the whole message was "lost" so I'm trying again without the drawing. Happy to put it on the board if someone tells me how.

Make sure the joints in the job are such that the top piece is inside thw lower bit otherwise the junk you collect tends to stick to the joints and can cause blockages, particularly in the ducting.

Grue
www.metalbashatorium.com

[Grue]

Wayne's great cyclone works with a single machine. If you want to build the all singing - all dancing version ducted to all your machines then you'll need more air power.

I intended to mount a blower similar to the "Bingo blower" on http://www.markair.com.au/products.html
on top of the cyclone and mount it externally with ducting to all machines including a hose to do the floor.

Any suggestions for an alternate power source welcome.

Duct design is important to get even air flow to all machines. If you need advice on ducting, I'm a sheetmetal tradesman and would be happy to reply to questions metal related.

Grue.
www.metalbashatorium.com

[Daniel]

Hi gang

Hope someone can help me here.

I have a very large noisy cyclone attached to my machine shop but I do not want to run that while I am using the Woodfast 9inch disk sander and a few other small tools.

I though initially about buying a carba-tech 1hp bag extractor but since seeing this thread it has started me thinking the dust collection process all over again.

What I want to know is can you have a dust extraction motor mounted on the top of a 44 gallon drum without the cyclone. I would have a 6 inch duct mounted in the drum which would feed into the machine shops cyclone and the contents of the drum would be emptied when the cyclone was running.


Daniel

[Sturdee]

Wayne

I am building the 44 gal drum extractor now, when finished and SHMBO returns from her holiday visiting my inlaws in a two weeks Ill take some photos of both and try to post them.

Peter

[Sturdee]

Daniel,

I think it would be possible using a dust collector with the drum for your small tools and having a outlet from the drum to your cyclone so you would not have to empty the drum.

I am currently building mine and I'll let you know how it works when ready.

I notice that you are not far away from me and if you want, you can come and have a look for yourself when mine is working.

Regards,

Peter.

[Wayne Davy]

Daniel

Gidday. About your idea of having a 44 drum with a D/C Blower on top and then hooked up to the big one. I dont know for sure but I think you will introduce an air flow problem thereby reducing down the suction quite dramatically.

As the Big Cyclone will be basically in-line (on the outlet side but does not matter), the little 1hp Blower will actually need to push the air through it as well and that is asking a bit much.

My thoughts are to try out the 44g drum BUT don't hook it up to the big Cyclone.

[Wayne Davy]

Originally posted by Sturdee
Wayne

I am building the 44 gal drum extractor now, when finished and SHMBO returns from her holiday visiting my inlaws in a two weeks Ill take some photos of both and try to post them.

Peter

Peter,

Great - cannot wait to see the pics. Just a question - does your post mean you are going to post up a pic of the 44gal Dust Collector AND SWMBO :D

[Sturdee]

Wayne,

I known I'll be a spoilsport but I'll keep the pics of SHMBO for my own enjoyment - just the pics of the dust collectors.

Peter

[Wayne Davy]

Bugger :D

[Wayne Davy]

Grue,

I do have a large Cyclone (well Hobby size) which I made (check my web site). The little one is for hand-held tools mainly sanders.

As for that Blower - yep, looks like it would do nicely but I bet it is not cheap.

Also, I really don't think the air ramp is necessary for the little one and may actually reduce the performance slightly. (That sample spiral/air ramp in the bottle is much to tight btw.) I did not put one in the little one BUT I did put an Air Ramp in the big unit and it works great.

Check out Bill Pentz site in the US for all the info you want on Cyclones http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/Index.html

Cheers,

[Grue]

Thanks Wayne,

I used the links in my previous postings for illustration purposes only, sorry I did not make that clear. I will probably never make one for myself, and yes the little blower I used is likely to cost a heap.

I hoped that someone on the board may have come up with a cheaper blower from experience. I've seen smaller ones with a plastic housing but could'nt find a link to use for illustration purposes. Mounting the blower is important too as vibration will make the ducting system annoyingly noisy.

The bottle drawing was used as a quick way of explaining a spiral ramp. My suggestion was that the spiral should follow the spiral on the ducting. Any change in the cross sectional area as the air travels down the spiral will affect performance.

My project is to make a drawing of the cyclone so that those learning sheetmetal layout will be able to put together the things they have learned from the sheetmetal manual:
developing cylinders, cones and square to round transition pieces and to plot off centre intersection of 2 different size cylinders.

It's a good little exercise and I admire you blokes and the work you've done on your dust collectors.

[gatiep]

Hi Wayne

Thanks for all the cyclone info that you have posted on here. I am interested in both sizes , but will start with the small one first. Making the cone, I'll use some approx 1 mm thick PVC or ABS plastic sheeting.... cuts with scissors and can be glued, taped or riveted. It will definately last a long time, as the chips and dust will not abrade it .... otherwise the modern vac cleaner wil abrade away instead of the motor giving up. The PVC can be rolled in the cone, then the bottom and top trimmed true....BIG ADVANTAGE.... it doesn't cut your hands.
I Just got a VAX wet n dry vac that is used for sucking carpets dry after shampooing etc , from our local tip for the pricey sum of $4-00! It works 100% , has a 1000 W motor etc. I have an idea of making it an integral part of the cyclone.
Well, I'll have to get out there and start forming things....lol. If it works, I'll post pics and info....If it doesn't I'll just tell you that I got beaten!!
Hope that formula is going to work for this vac that I plan to use.
Cya......
Keep turnin so u can keep suckin!

[poimen]

At the risk of sounding foolish, has anyone tried using an old evaporative airconditioning fan as an impeller for their cyclone dust collector? Some of these move HUGE volumes of air. Being belt driven they are easily adjusted for optimal air flow by changing to pulleys of different diameters. They are also available quite cheaply from building wreckers etc.
Just a thought.

[gatiep]

Have given it some thought, just wonder how those systems rate compared to the convensional impeller and 2 hp motor. I think the motors used on them are relatively small.

[zathras]

Apparently the squirrel cage blowers are only real good for that, blowing. Their suck performance, well, sucks :p

There is plenty of discussion about these for dust collection purposes on the net, except they tend to be called furnace blowers by the yanks. The general concensus is stick with the impellor blower for good suck performance.

They are however quite good for building air filtration units that filter the ambient air.